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GW2 Stats and Attributes - Are they too simple?
bcbully
Member EpicPosts: 11,843
Primary attributes -
-
Power — every point increases attack by one point. -
Precision — increases critical hit chance. -
Toughness — every point increases armor by one point. -
Vitality — every point increases maximum health by ten points.
Secondary attributes
-
Boon Duration — Improves the duration of all boons applied by the character. -
Condition Damage — Improves the damage done by conditions like burning, poison, confusion, and bleeding. -
Condition Duration — Improves the duration of all conditions inflicted by the character. -
Critical Damage — Improves the damage multiplier on critical strikes. -
Healing Power — Improves all outgoing heals that your character does, including self heals.
Profession attributes
-
Willpower — Reduces the recharge on all virtues; linked to Virtues. -
Brawn — Improves the damage of warrior burst attacks; linked to Discipline. -
Ingenuity — Reduces the recharge on all tool belt skills; linked to Tools. -
Empathy — Improves pet attributes; linked to Beastmastery. -
Cunning — Reduces the recharge of the steal ability; linked to Trickery. -
Intelligence — Reduces the recharge of the four elemental attunements; linked to Arcana. -
Guile — Reduces the recharge on all shatter skills; linked to Illusions. -
Hunger — Increases the size of the necromancer’s life force pool; linked to Soul Reaping.
I think they are.
Primary stats
With only four it's pretty simple to see what will give you the most dmg, and what will improve survivability. No theory crafting needed here.No learning necessary. Do these stats even change from item to item, or are they based soley on level? I assume they vary, but I do not know.
Secondary atributes
If there is any theory crafting this is where it will be. Do I want it to last longer, or do I want it to do more upfront damge.
Profession attributes
You want all you can get for your profession. Am I missing something?
I honestly believe that stat simplification was one of the things that hurt WoW and one of the factor in swtors lack of staying power. The more people have to tinker with the longer they stay enganged.
I know some will disagree with me and that's well within their right. If the stats and attributes are or not is purley opinion and completely based on the player. I do think it is a fair question to ask with respect to the recent trend of streamlining and simplification of the genre that has left theory crafters wanting.
Please feel free to correct any errors.
Comments
May I ask which/how many stats/attributes The Secret World has got?
I think it's about right in terms of giving you options while making it easy to understand.
However I'm disappointed there isn't overlap. For example right now power does not increase condition damage (and condition damage stat does not increase direct damage, of course)
I would have preferred if power helped both direct and condition, and condition damage stat (call it something else maybe) helped both direct and condition too, with one being more potent than the other in the appropriate direction.
Think WoW here where different builds valued attack power, or haste, or strength, and so on. One was more valuable than the other depending on build but they were all fairly useful to any build you had.
I think that would be well suited to GW2, moreso than it is to WoW actually. Right now when you gear in one direction it all but takes away the ability to swap over to your off weapons. For example as a necro if you're building for condition damage, you've basically taken weapon options from yourself (mainhand axe, mainhand dagger etc). This is furthered through the specialization apparent from traits.
It's very fun early in the game when you can just sorta switch between weapons depending on your mood since you hardly have any stats anyway, doesn't really mean much which you use. Then the combination of stat systems and traits take that away from you by making you overspecialize imo. Specialization is fine but I'd like to see a little more balance here, just for more varied (and thus fun) gameplay
Oversimplified? I don't think you get it.
Every stat matters for EVERY class. In most games, classes have 1-3 stats they focus in and that is it; everything else is completely pointless. Who cares if a game has STR, DEX, VIT, WIS, INT, CHA, etc. If you play a mage you only care about INT/WIS anyways (just an example).
I would argue that the stats are actually more complicated than most games I have played. Since it all matters, you have to find that balance between all of them that fits your play style and build. I don't see how balancing like 12 stats is "oversimplified" yet most games you are only balancing 2-3.
If it's so simple, explain all the trade-offs in base stats. For example, will it be better to increase your tank by bloating your HP or increasing your reistences to improve your effective HPs? Will it always be better in all circumstances, some circumstances and if 'some' which is actually more effective for the greatest number of circumstances?
Which circumstances would be better to trade for? It could be that what's good for the majority will be highly gimped for the difficult challenges. For example, you have bosses that can nullify/bypass your resistance bonuses which, conversely, will be much better for fighting mobs. Which will it be? A resist tank or a HP tank?
Would it be better to go glass cannon? Will that be better than high-resist? Or should you go HP bloat because the marginal dps you gain isn't as much as the marginal HP pool you lose...
How about a gank-build? Get those crits rolling... Great when they work, not so great when the die-rolls are against you or the boss can't be critted...
I haven't thought for more the two-minutes after your post and already the permutations of the interactive trade-offs are reaching critical mass.
I wish it were easier for me to look at 4 attributes and declare something 'simple' and imply that it's a design defect...
Pretty much. Some games are even simpler. You have a key stat and you put everything in it as the rest lack any meaningful impact on your class and its abilities.
There is a bit old arena.net blog post about design process for stats and traits.
http://www.arena.net/blog/play-your-way-jon-peters-on-traits-and-attributes
Personaly, i find it easy to understand, change and re-spec. Also GW2 focuses more on special effects and damage/protection increase from conditons/boons that also increases with stats.
Its quite deep, the customisation, but on the same page easy to understand, a great disign imo.
Seems about the same as every game known to man, woman, and fanboykind. Then again can't say I ever found that complex in any game except for Eve.
Not even sure if it is really technically complex in that game either. I found the game really dull so wasn't really evaluating it like a player should.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
No, it wasn't.
You generally only get 2 stats per item or upgrade set, not including the "Profession attributes" as those are actually just a unique bonus from one specific trait line.
As for therycrafting, which stats are actually useful for you depends heavily on the weapons, skills and traits you use. Also to a lesser extent what your attempting too actually achieve through those choices, for example you might choose to prioritise Condition duration over power/precision as a Hammer Warrior to maximise your debuff uptimes.
You don't simply get higher level armor and get better at everything, theres always some trade off to the stat choices you make.
No its stat based alright... At least from low lvl'es and crafting pretty much you get choises from equip to (power=more dmg, vitality=more hp, toughness=armor, precision=crits).
If you spend some time in sPvP loby and checked out the custumisation options for items there there are alsmo many minor details that let you do interesting things, For example: as warior fear someone when they hit you :0
Yeah, the customization gets nuts in this game.
Offensive Stats
Combat Power
Attack Rating
Weapon Power
Critical Rating
Critical Chance
Crit Power Rating
Crit Power
Hit Rating
Enemy Evade Chance
Penatration Rating
Defensive Stats
Evade Rating
Evade Chance
Physical Protection
Magical Protection
Defence Rating
Enemy Crit Rating
Block Rating
Healing Stats
Healing Power
Healing Rating
Weapon Power
Critical Rating
Critical Chance
Crit Power Rating
Crit Power
I'm glad Anet didn't decide to go with Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom, Intelligence, etc. There always winds up being some sort of stat anomaly when devs use those because inevitably each one will affect classes differently (since Strength doesn't make sense for a Mage type class) which in turn leads to gear anomalies (like +Str on daggers when 3 different class types can use daggers). So by going with things like Power and Precision, it's easy to just have each stat affect each profession the same way and avoid the stat & gear anomalies. If I find a dagger with +Precision on it, I can use it on any profession that can equip it. No more "oh that's a Thief dagger" crap.
So I'm thankful GW2 stats and attributes are "too simple".
Well simply put, as lvl 80 you have your base stats (power, toughness, vitality, precision) around 900 (they increase a fixed value as you gain levels, with higher gain towards the end). Then you customise them with traits (up to +300) and item bonuses.
Minor stats (malice, prowess, expertise, compasion, consentration and class unique stat) only increase with traits and special item effects.
But what is most engenious of them is that these base stats only provide a "BASE", how strong or tough your character is, what actualy influence your gameplay are the minor and major traits that are provided along the trait lines. +10% dmg with 90% hp, or attacking from behind, attacking enemy below 25 or 50% of health, you have your conpanion or not, what weapon you have equiped, ect ect...
Stats are important, but its also important what gameplay style they benefit most from. So its just as much important how you play (player skills and tactics) and your statistics that just makes you stronger. And it feels developers didnt make it absentminded.
I don't play TSW so excuse my ignorance, but are all of those character stats/attributes? Some of them look like gear stats/attributes.
Character stats, all of wich can be modified through gear. There is no str,int,wis and stuff everyone has a equal base to build from. For example everyone has a base of 1970 HP. This does not chage unless modified by gear.
There are people running the hardest content with the best gear with a base HP of 1970. They have their entire gear stat allocation in offensive stats. Now mind you anything that touches them one shots them
So "enemy evade chance" is a character stats/attribute?
Also, the OP left out a few stats/attributes in GW2 like Armor Rating, Health, and Critical chance.
You bloated that a bit (not surprised). Since crit rating applies to healing and offense for instance, you don't need to put them down twice. Basically:
Combat Power (sum of attack power and weapon power)
Healing Power (sum of heal rating and wepon power)
Evade Chance
Physical Protection (Armor (Not surpisingly, you forgot to mention this stat for GW2))
Magical Protection (Magic Resistance-like stat)
Defense Rating (Enemy Crit Rating based on this)
Block Rating
Crit Chance (based on Crit Rating)
Crit Power Rating
Hit Rating (Enemy Evade Chance based on hit rating)
Penetration Rating
It's still a lot of stats, but just not quite as many as you originally expressed. I think it's a pretty good spread of stats overall. And @Sixpax, I'm pretty sure every stat in TSW is derived from gear.
And the entire trait system.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait
[mod edit]
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Sorry about that I copy pasted from wiki.
Yes enemy evade would be determined by you evade stat.
I just copy pasted from wiki like I did the GW2 list.
Yes crit effects healing and attack, but there are items that buff healing crit and attack crit but not both.
No traits are there in the OP under secondary attributes and professional attributes.