LOTRO launched in 2007 and saw GROWTH till about 2010, capping around 275,000 subs. After being out for several years, the game's subs dipped to about 225,000. When they switched to FTP, LOTRO had about an 80% retention rate, after being out for years. In those years LOTRO released 15 major content updates. When LOTRO did announce it was foing Freemium, the system was already fleshed out. In about two weeks time the FTP Beta server was up and running, allowing players to see what the new system would be like and what the new cash shop would contain. THis worked well for LOTRO because it was profitable for years and then when the population started dipping, they quickly converted the game's payment model to continue making a profit.
Contrastingly, SWTOR 8 months from launch had a 20% retention rate. (2.4 million to a generous 500K). There was never a period of growth for SWTOR following launch. In those 8 months there was one cotent update. Since launch there have been rounds of layy-offs. EA announced SWTOR is going FTP, but there a few details about the new FTP system. There is no FTP-Beta server. (Apparently they rarely even usr their PTS server.) The game is stuck is neutral. FTP has been announced, but details are unforthcoming, and may not be released till November. That gives the game 3-4 months to flounder with its remaining subscriptions. Whereas LOTRO seemed to have made a profit for quite some time, but was proactive and planned ahead if the game saw a loss of subscribers; SWTOR seems to be reactive in its actions. They announced FTP in an attempt to stop the massive bleeding of subscriptions, but they seem both ill prepared and ill equiped to actually go about converting the game to FTP in a timely manner. We shall see if they are successfull, but if Vegas was putting odds on them, my guess is that it would be a long shot based on past performace and current conditions.
SWTOR is £9.85 at ShopTo Wait a bit longer it will soon be under £5
RIFT is £13.85
So i guess Rift is a failure too.....
Rift has been out for more than a year, and the longer the game is out the cheaper the game gets, so is natural for it to be that cheap, but SWTOR cheaper than Rift?
SWTOR is a failure Rift is not
Disclaimer: I have not played Rift, so my statements of failure is not a personal one of either MMO
People have funny way to gauge failure and success on these forums. Not to mention that personal bais is always a strong factor.
Your reply just confirms my notion.
If you can check my sig I am still playing SWTOR, if my perosnal opinion of SWTOR is failure then I would not be playing it.
That is the impression the prices give off to people, if people do not know what each game is about, especially for a MMO - Why put time and money in a MMO when it may get shut down soon or go F2P?
Even the most hardcore trolls would agree that SWTOR isn't shutting down any time sooner. So they are satisfied with F2P conversion..gives them some vindication.
However, F2P is not a rare event hese days. So i doubt people will stop playing MMOS only because they might go F2P in future. If that was true people would be only playing WOW or Rift and all F2P titles would have shut down the servers.
I did not say SWTOR is shutting down. It is what people consider when buying ANY MMO. I have bought sveral MMos in the past, only to discover that shortly afterwards they are getting shut down, eg Auto Assault and RF Online, so they ended up being a waste of money and time, as never got all what I wanted out of them.
Games like Obi-Wan was a global failure as well, but there is more likely chance I would buy that game over a failed MMO, as Obi Wan can be played still whereas MMOs can not.
F2P does ruin games. LOTRO is not as good now as when it was P2P, and playing City of Heroes these days I do not recognise it, it is like playing a different game, and you are still led to buy stuff from the store even with a sub.
If you want to limit yourself your choice but matter of fact is that you have more choice in F2P market than P2P one. How many P2P titles are in market right now? 4?
Also it is not some freakish coincidence that after F2P conversion the population spikes up and is actually quite a profitable model. Lot more people are playing LOTRO now than compared to its P2P model. If that is what is called game being 'ruined' i bet more companies ruin their game.
You think SWTOR wouldn't have sustained itself for another 2+ years without going F2P with close to 500K subs? EA could have waited but it doesn't want to..and whatsthe point? the F2P market is ripe for harvest and turning SWTOR into F2P model will just bring in a lot of cash lot more than any P2P title can bring in except for WOW ofcourse because it an anomly of MMO world.
SWTOR is £9.85 at ShopTo Wait a bit longer it will soon be under £5
RIFT is £13.85
So i guess Rift is a failure too.....
Rift has been out for more than a year, and the longer the game is out the cheaper the game gets, so is natural for it to be that cheap, but SWTOR cheaper than Rift?
SWTOR is a failure Rift is not
Disclaimer: I have not played Rift, so my statements of failure is not a personal one of either MMO
People have funny way to gauge failure and success on these forums. Not to mention that personal bais is always a strong factor.
Your reply just confirms my notion.
If you can check my sig I am still playing SWTOR, if my perosnal opinion of SWTOR is failure then I would not be playing it.
That is the impression the prices give off to people, if people do not know what each game is about, especially for a MMO - Why put time and money in a MMO when it may get shut down soon or go F2P?
Even the most hardcore trolls would agree that SWTOR isn't shutting down any time sooner. So they are satisfied with F2P conversion..gives them some vindication.
However, F2P is not a rare event hese days. So i doubt people will stop playing MMOS only because they might go F2P in future. If that was true people would be only playing WOW or Rift and all F2P titles would have shut down the servers.
I did not say SWTOR is shutting down. It is what people consider when buying ANY MMO. I have bought sveral MMos in the past, only to discover that shortly afterwards they are getting shut down, eg Auto Assault and RF Online, so they ended up being a waste of money and time, as never got all what I wanted out of them.
Games like Obi-Wan was a global failure as well, but there is more likely chance I would buy that game over a failed MMO, as Obi Wan can be played still whereas MMOs can not.
F2P does ruin games. LOTRO is not as good now as when it was P2P, and playing City of Heroes these days I do not recognise it, it is like playing a different game, and you are still led to buy stuff from the store even with a sub.
If you want to limit yourself your choice but matter of fact is that you have more choice in F2P market than P2P one. How many P2P titles are in market right now? 4?
Also it is not some freakish coincidence that after F2P conversion the population spikes up and is actually quite a profitable model. Lot more people are playing LOTRO now than compared to its P2P model. If that is what is called game being 'ruined' i bet more companies ruin their game.
You think SWTOR wouldn't have sustained itself for another 2+ years without going F2P with close to 500K subs? EA could have waited but it doesn't want to..and whatsthe point? the F2P market is ripe for harvest and turning SWTOR into F2P model will just bring in a lot of cash lot more than any P2P title can bring in except for WOW ofcourse because it an anomly of MMO world.
While sub based mmos converting to FTP has proven to salvage MMOs temporarily, it has yet to proove to be a long term sustainable payment system. LOTRO, which has had the most succesful FTP conversion, is essentially back down to its original numbers prior to going FTP. The FTP conversion has had the stigma of a last ditch attempt to save a dying game. Until a freemium system has prooven itself long term, it will generally be seen in a negative light. It is only with SWTOR's announcement of conversion that a significant amount of analysts have been espousing the FTP system as the new industry standard. Whether that is true is yet to be seen. What is intresting to point out is that the new "standard" is being championed form the top down meaning many developers and analysts are calling FTP the new standard, but not the majority of the player base who's wallets will decide what the standard is. You can say #D TVs are the wave of the future, doesn't mean everyone is going to line up to buy them.
There is a long list of games that managed to keep a +51% retention following 8 months from release.
Yet, you fail to provide any data supporting your claims...
In case it isn't clear to you, subscription growth does not imply any % retention.
I provided a chart, but apparently it is of little matter.
If you are claiming that growth doesn't imply retention, if you imply a subscription game that grows 300% over the course of two years does not imply retention, there really is no talking to you.
You are implying that a game which grew for several years, the game SWTOR is modeling itself after in its FTP conversion, is a failure, but SWTOR which lost 80%+ of its subscribers in 8 months is a success, I mean...
WUT?
I don't want to make this personal, I'l just say your reasoning elludes me completely.
Originally posted by tiefighter25If you are claiming that growth doesn't imply retention, if you imply a subscription game that grows 300% over the course of two years does not imply retention, there really is no talking to you.
Agreed, because you really have no idea what you talk about.
Example:
I sell 500k units. 60k customers subscribe. 10k customers leave.
My retention rate is 10% and my player base has grown by 50k customers.
If you are claiming that growth doesn't imply retention, if you imply a subscription game that grows 300% over the course of two years does not imply retention, there really is no talking to you.
Agreed, because you really have no idea what you talk about.
Example:
I sell 500k units. 60k customers subscribe. 10k customers leave.
My retention rate is 10% and my player base has grown by 50k customers.
Could you expound on that? I didn't get past the part of putting one's pants on one's head.
While sub based mmos converting to FTP has proven to salvage MMOs temporarily, it has yet to proove to be a long term sustainable payment system. LOTRO, which has had the most succesful FTP conversion, is essentially back down to its original numbers prior to going FTP. The FTP conversion has had the stigma of a last ditch attempt to save a dying game. Until a freemium system has prooven itself long term, it will generally be seen in a negative light. It is only with SWTOR's announcement of conversion that a significant amount of analysts have been espousing the FTP system as the new industry standard. Whether that is true is yet to be seen. What is intresting to point out is that the new "standard" is being championed form the top down meaning many developers and analysts are calling FTP the new standard, but not the majority of the player base who's wallets will decide what the standard is. You can say #D TVs are the wave of the future, doesn't mean everyone is going to line up to buy them.
So what would you call success of DDO? not long term enough? F2P is the new industry standard was already established with many titles going F2P over the years. By the time AOC also took the plunge players knew this is what people are demanding for. SWTOR is just following the standard not creating it. People are not shocked that SWTOR is going F2P they are shocked because it happened too soon.
And i believe that players have already voted with their wallet. With only 4 P2P titles in market i think signals are pretty clear what is the current market trend.
While sub based mmos converting to FTP has proven to salvage MMOs temporarily, it has yet to proove to be a long term sustainable payment system. LOTRO, which has had the most succesful FTP conversion, is essentially back down to its original numbers prior to going FTP. The FTP conversion has had the stigma of a last ditch attempt to save a dying game. Until a freemium system has prooven itself long term, it will generally be seen in a negative light. It is only with SWTOR's announcement of conversion that a significant amount of analysts have been espousing the FTP system as the new industry standard. Whether that is true is yet to be seen. What is intresting to point out is that the new "standard" is being championed form the top down meaning many developers and analysts are calling FTP the new standard, but not the majority of the player base who's wallets will decide what the standard is. You can say #D TVs are the wave of the future, doesn't mean everyone is going to line up to buy them.
So what would you call success of DDO? not long term enough? F2P is the new industry standard was already established with many titles going F2P over the years. By the time AOC also took the plunge players knew this is what people are demanding for. SWTOR is just following the standard not creating it. People are not shocked that SWTOR is going F2P they are shocked because it happened too soon.
And i believe that players have already voted with their wallet. With only 4 P2P titles in market i think signals are pretty clear what is the current market trend.
The thing is that in all those games, FTP was only introduced to save the game. I don't think a succesful AAA MMO has released as FTP yet. There are rumors that Blizzard's Titan will. Until a AAA MMO title releases and is successfl as FTP, I think stating that FTP is the defining trend and future payment model as a fact is premature at best. You are discounting the possability that all the games that converted from subscription based models to FTP were just bad. The 2.4 million people who bought SWTOR knew about the subscription so it seems logical to conclude they had no problem with the sub based payment model till they played the game.
While sub based mmos converting to FTP has proven to salvage MMOs temporarily, it has yet to proove to be a long term sustainable payment system. LOTRO, which has had the most succesful FTP conversion, is essentially back down to its original numbers prior to going FTP. The FTP conversion has had the stigma of a last ditch attempt to save a dying game. Until a freemium system has prooven itself long term, it will generally be seen in a negative light. It is only with SWTOR's announcement of conversion that a significant amount of analysts have been espousing the FTP system as the new industry standard. Whether that is true is yet to be seen. What is intresting to point out is that the new "standard" is being championed form the top down meaning many developers and analysts are calling FTP the new standard, but not the majority of the player base who's wallets will decide what the standard is. You can say #D TVs are the wave of the future, doesn't mean everyone is going to line up to buy them.
So what would you call success of DDO? not long term enough? F2P is the new industry standard was already established with many titles going F2P over the years. By the time AOC also took the plunge players knew this is what people are demanding for. SWTOR is just following the standard not creating it. People are not shocked that SWTOR is going F2P they are shocked because it happened too soon.
And i believe that players have already voted with their wallet. With only 4 P2P titles in market i think signals are pretty clear what is the current market trend.
The thing is that in all those games, FTP was only introduced to save the game. I don't think a succesful AAA MMO has released as FTP yet. There are rumors that Blizzard's Titan will. Until a AAA MMO title releases and is successfl as FTP, I think stating that FTP is the defining trend and future payment model as a fact is premature at best. You are discounting the possability that all the games that converted from subscription based models to FTP were just bad. The 2.4 million people who bought SWTOR knew about the subscription so it seems logical to conclude they had no problem with the sub based payment model till they played the game.
I believe majority of players buy games like SWTOR to play for a month and get there 50 bucks worth out of the game. The problem is not 15 bucks but that players don't think any MMO is worth a sub fee now days. I don't see how a AAA MMO releasing as F2P is any different than AAA MMO turning into F2P after release. They are still responding to the current market trends.
As far as MMOS turning to F2P model because they are bad i find that reasoning abusrd because a bad game is bad whether F2P or P2P and yet all theses MMOS see spike in player population and more stable population over the years. I don't believe that F2P model suddenly turns these bad MMOS into a good one.
While sub based mmos converting to FTP has proven to salvage MMOs temporarily, it has yet to proove to be a long term sustainable payment system. LOTRO, which has had the most succesful FTP conversion, is essentially back down to its original numbers prior to going FTP. The FTP conversion has had the stigma of a last ditch attempt to save a dying game. Until a freemium system has prooven itself long term, it will generally be seen in a negative light. It is only with SWTOR's announcement of conversion that a significant amount of analysts have been espousing the FTP system as the new industry standard. Whether that is true is yet to be seen. What is intresting to point out is that the new "standard" is being championed form the top down meaning many developers and analysts are calling FTP the new standard, but not the majority of the player base who's wallets will decide what the standard is. You can say #D TVs are the wave of the future, doesn't mean everyone is going to line up to buy them.
So what would you call success of DDO? not long term enough? F2P is the new industry standard was already established with many titles going F2P over the years. By the time AOC also took the plunge players knew this is what people are demanding for. SWTOR is just following the standard not creating it. People are not shocked that SWTOR is going F2P they are shocked because it happened too soon.
And i believe that players have already voted with their wallet. With only 4 P2P titles in market i think signals are pretty clear what is the current market trend.
The thing is that in all those games, FTP was only introduced to save the game. I don't think a succesful AAA MMO has released as FTP yet. There are rumors that Blizzard's Titan will. Until a AAA MMO title releases and is successfl as FTP, I think stating that FTP is the defining trend and future payment model as a fact is premature at best. You are discounting the possability that all the games that converted from subscription based models to FTP were just bad. The 2.4 million people who bought SWTOR knew about the subscription so it seems logical to conclude they had no problem with the sub based payment model till they played the game.
I believe majority of players buy games like SWTOR to play for a month and get there 50 bucks worth out of the game. The problem is not 15 bucks but that players don't think any MMO is worth a sub fee now days. I don't see how a AAA MMO releasing as F2P is any different than AAA MMO turning into F2P after release. They are still responding to the current market trends.
As far as MMOS turning to F2P model because they are bad i find that reasoning abusrd because a bad game is bad whether F2P or P2P and yet all theses MMOS see spike in player population and more stable population over the years. I don't believe that F2P model suddenly turns these bad MMOS into a good one.
The problem with your reasoning in regard to SWTOR is that they were counting on subscriptions to cover their substantial developement costs. If Bioware thought differently, they would have released SWTOR as either a BTP or a FTP. Personally, I don't think SWTOR's FTP will make them a profit. I believe the move will minimize losses, not maximize profits. Many would agree with you that FTP doesn't make a bad game good, but it does add (less then a succesful sub model) additional revenue to keep the game open. That additional revenue is not really enough to keep investing in the games developemt though. LOTRO's additional content has slowed in pace since converting to Freemium.
I do not think the market changed from P2P to FTP in 8 months because SWTOR underperformed. I think SWTOR was just a bad game. Furthermore, I don't think FTP will save SWTOR in that it will never make up its developmental costs, oppurtunity costs, and additional content will ne nominal. SWTOR is the first game I can recall that blames its underperformance on anything but itself. The game isn't poorly optimized, it's people's computers. There's a rabid fanbase that blamed bored players for having no lives and rushing through content and that rolling an alt consisted of endgame. Now that the game is on the fiscal ropes and forced to go Freemium, it's the fault of the market no longer wanting to pay subscriptions. Meanwhile WoW, EvE, Rift, Aion East, and several others with smaller sub player bases keep chugging along.
Many who think FTP MMOs are the new standard say WoW is an aberation, EvE is a niche game, Aion is Asian, Rift is an exeption, etc. very conviently disregard evidence against their viewpoint. Conversely, all major MMO's that have gone FTP were forced to go FTP due to underperformance. To say that one game, a game many think is terrible, underperformed so horribly that it prooves the new standard of MMOs is FTP, is more of an excuse then a conclusion.
My opinion can easily be disproved if sub based games keep failing and new FTP games are released and keep suceeding. But that's the thing. No one has yet released a AAA MMO FTP from the start.
Originally posted by tiefighter25 Many would agree with you that FTP doesn't make a bad game good, but it does add (less then a succesful sub model) additional revenue to keep the game open.
Even when truth punch you in the face you are still in denial mode.
I am starting to think you are not trolling or somehow do it on purpose, you just don't get it....
Many would agree with you that FTP doesn't make a bad game good, but it does add (less then a succesful sub model) additional revenue to keep the game open.
Even when truth punch you in the face you are still in denial mode.
I am starting to think you are not trolling or somehow do it on purpose, you just don't get it....
...........find that surprising, t yet i dont. Went from $49.95 a month ago to a third of the price. The game must be selling that poorly to sell it that low. I dont think even with F2P coming and $14.95 price, SWTOR will be able to make a comeback. I wish LA would let SOE bring back SWG, just to experience a "real" SW MMO. I hope in 10 years, there will be a true SW mmorpg.
dude if you read their press releases they said the game will sell for 15 dollars in august .i dont really see how your argument fits into the situation.
It's $12.99 in KMart right now, and other places were dumping it for $9.99 in discount bins.
Kind of amusing because retailers apparently don't expect to sell many boxes even when this comes out with the extended lv 1-50 demo this Christmas. They are just flooding the markets with all those box units which never sold over the past year, perhaps in the millions.
Waiting for $4.99 so It'll need to be ejected from the main game retail sections, placing it with cheapie computer card games, screensaver bundles and such.
Its a bit rude to still be selling the box when they know it is going to be free. I suppose it is just the cost of a monthly sub though, so its not too bad.
You all know that in two years or so there will be no pay to play games anymore. The possible exception is wow but even that is hemorrhaging subs this year. There is a major shift going on in the MMO industry right now and SWTOR just had the bad luck to release a game right in the middle of a shift to free to play from P2P. Now the developer did make some major epic mistakes like not enough endgame content and thinking that people would just reroll alts after they got to endgame. Anyone of this forum could have told them that wasn't going to work.
I would bet in 2 years the only games that are still P2P are wow and eve that's it all the rest will be free to play eve for sure wow is shaky.
Its a bit rude to still be selling the box when they know it is going to be free. I suppose it is just the cost of a monthly sub though, so its not too bad.
Honestly, the game should be B2P, not F2P.
To be fair these retailers paid to stock these items hoping to make a profit.
Comments
You only keep proving my point - again you speak in behalf of all the 1.2M people who decided not to keep their subscription with SWTOR.
Also, good luck finding an MMO with +51% retention rate...
There is a long list of games that managed to keep a +51% retention following 8 months from release.
I'll single out LOTRO, since it is the game SWTOR appears to be modelling it's payment model after.
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png
LOTRO launched in 2007 and saw GROWTH till about 2010, capping around 275,000 subs. After being out for several years, the game's subs dipped to about 225,000. When they switched to FTP, LOTRO had about an 80% retention rate, after being out for years. In those years LOTRO released 15 major content updates. When LOTRO did announce it was foing Freemium, the system was already fleshed out. In about two weeks time the FTP Beta server was up and running, allowing players to see what the new system would be like and what the new cash shop would contain. THis worked well for LOTRO because it was profitable for years and then when the population started dipping, they quickly converted the game's payment model to continue making a profit.
Contrastingly, SWTOR 8 months from launch had a 20% retention rate. (2.4 million to a generous 500K). There was never a period of growth for SWTOR following launch. In those 8 months there was one cotent update. Since launch there have been rounds of layy-offs. EA announced SWTOR is going FTP, but there a few details about the new FTP system. There is no FTP-Beta server. (Apparently they rarely even usr their PTS server.) The game is stuck is neutral. FTP has been announced, but details are unforthcoming, and may not be released till November. That gives the game 3-4 months to flounder with its remaining subscriptions. Whereas LOTRO seemed to have made a profit for quite some time, but was proactive and planned ahead if the game saw a loss of subscribers; SWTOR seems to be reactive in its actions. They announced FTP in an attempt to stop the massive bleeding of subscriptions, but they seem both ill prepared and ill equiped to actually go about converting the game to FTP in a timely manner. We shall see if they are successfull, but if Vegas was putting odds on them, my guess is that it would be a long shot based on past performace and current conditions.
If you want to limit yourself your choice but matter of fact is that you have more choice in F2P market than P2P one. How many P2P titles are in market right now? 4?
Also it is not some freakish coincidence that after F2P conversion the population spikes up and is actually quite a profitable model. Lot more people are playing LOTRO now than compared to its P2P model. If that is what is called game being 'ruined' i bet more companies ruin their game.
You think SWTOR wouldn't have sustained itself for another 2+ years without going F2P with close to 500K subs? EA could have waited but it doesn't want to..and whatsthe point? the F2P market is ripe for harvest and turning SWTOR into F2P model will just bring in a lot of cash lot more than any P2P title can bring in except for WOW ofcourse because it an anomly of MMO world.
Yet, you fail to provide any data supporting your claims...
In case it isn't clear to you, subscription growth does not imply any % retention.
While sub based mmos converting to FTP has proven to salvage MMOs temporarily, it has yet to proove to be a long term sustainable payment system. LOTRO, which has had the most succesful FTP conversion, is essentially back down to its original numbers prior to going FTP. The FTP conversion has had the stigma of a last ditch attempt to save a dying game. Until a freemium system has prooven itself long term, it will generally be seen in a negative light. It is only with SWTOR's announcement of conversion that a significant amount of analysts have been espousing the FTP system as the new industry standard. Whether that is true is yet to be seen. What is intresting to point out is that the new "standard" is being championed form the top down meaning many developers and analysts are calling FTP the new standard, but not the majority of the player base who's wallets will decide what the standard is. You can say #D TVs are the wave of the future, doesn't mean everyone is going to line up to buy them.
Of course they slashed the price. It's going F2P and retailers need to get rid of their inventory before that happens.
Some people ...
I provided a chart, but apparently it is of little matter.
If you are claiming that growth doesn't imply retention, if you imply a subscription game that grows 300% over the course of two years does not imply retention, there really is no talking to you.
You are implying that a game which grew for several years, the game SWTOR is modeling itself after in its FTP conversion, is a failure, but SWTOR which lost 80%+ of its subscribers in 8 months is a success, I mean...
WUT?
I don't want to make this personal, I'l just say your reasoning elludes me completely.
Agreed, because you really have no idea what you talk about.
Example:
I sell 500k units.
60k customers subscribe.
10k customers leave.
My retention rate is 10% and my player base has grown by 50k customers.
Also, F2P title as an argument... /facepalm
Could you expound on that? I didn't get past the part of putting one's pants on one's head.
So what would you call success of DDO? not long term enough? F2P is the new industry standard was already established with many titles going F2P over the years. By the time AOC also took the plunge players knew this is what people are demanding for. SWTOR is just following the standard not creating it. People are not shocked that SWTOR is going F2P they are shocked because it happened too soon.
And i believe that players have already voted with their wallet. With only 4 P2P titles in market i think signals are pretty clear what is the current market trend.
The thing is that in all those games, FTP was only introduced to save the game. I don't think a succesful AAA MMO has released as FTP yet. There are rumors that Blizzard's Titan will. Until a AAA MMO title releases and is successfl as FTP, I think stating that FTP is the defining trend and future payment model as a fact is premature at best. You are discounting the possability that all the games that converted from subscription based models to FTP were just bad. The 2.4 million people who bought SWTOR knew about the subscription so it seems logical to conclude they had no problem with the sub based payment model till they played the game.
I believe majority of players buy games like SWTOR to play for a month and get there 50 bucks worth out of the game. The problem is not 15 bucks but that players don't think any MMO is worth a sub fee now days. I don't see how a AAA MMO releasing as F2P is any different than AAA MMO turning into F2P after release. They are still responding to the current market trends.
As far as MMOS turning to F2P model because they are bad i find that reasoning abusrd because a bad game is bad whether F2P or P2P and yet all theses MMOS see spike in player population and more stable population over the years. I don't believe that F2P model suddenly turns these bad MMOS into a good one.
Convenience and lower prices.
I agree that the 1%-ers such as yourself wouldn't be seen in such a place with all the common folk.
The problem with your reasoning in regard to SWTOR is that they were counting on subscriptions to cover their substantial developement costs. If Bioware thought differently, they would have released SWTOR as either a BTP or a FTP. Personally, I don't think SWTOR's FTP will make them a profit. I believe the move will minimize losses, not maximize profits. Many would agree with you that FTP doesn't make a bad game good, but it does add (less then a succesful sub model) additional revenue to keep the game open. That additional revenue is not really enough to keep investing in the games developemt though. LOTRO's additional content has slowed in pace since converting to Freemium.
I do not think the market changed from P2P to FTP in 8 months because SWTOR underperformed. I think SWTOR was just a bad game. Furthermore, I don't think FTP will save SWTOR in that it will never make up its developmental costs, oppurtunity costs, and additional content will ne nominal. SWTOR is the first game I can recall that blames its underperformance on anything but itself. The game isn't poorly optimized, it's people's computers. There's a rabid fanbase that blamed bored players for having no lives and rushing through content and that rolling an alt consisted of endgame. Now that the game is on the fiscal ropes and forced to go Freemium, it's the fault of the market no longer wanting to pay subscriptions. Meanwhile WoW, EvE, Rift, Aion East, and several others with smaller sub player bases keep chugging along.
Many who think FTP MMOs are the new standard say WoW is an aberation, EvE is a niche game, Aion is Asian, Rift is an exeption, etc. very conviently disregard evidence against their viewpoint. Conversely, all major MMO's that have gone FTP were forced to go FTP due to underperformance. To say that one game, a game many think is terrible, underperformed so horribly that it prooves the new standard of MMOs is FTP, is more of an excuse then a conclusion.
My opinion can easily be disproved if sub based games keep failing and new FTP games are released and keep suceeding. But that's the thing. No one has yet released a AAA MMO FTP from the start.
Even when truth punch you in the face you are still in denial mode.
I am starting to think you are not trolling or somehow do it on purpose, you just don't get it....
I hit quote.
Now i say you are wrong.
Now I call you dense.
That is what you just did.
dude if you read their press releases they said the game will sell for 15 dollars in august .i dont really see how your argument fits into the situation.
It's $12.99 in KMart right now, and other places were dumping it for $9.99 in discount bins.
Kind of amusing because retailers apparently don't expect to sell many boxes even when this comes out with the extended lv 1-50 demo this Christmas. They are just flooding the markets with all those box units which never sold over the past year, perhaps in the millions.
Waiting for $4.99 so It'll need to be ejected from the main game retail sections, placing it with cheapie computer card games, screensaver bundles and such.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
£8.99 on play.com
http://www.twitch.tv/got_game_tv/ (livestream)
The War Z Shenanigans(youtube)
DayZ FUNTIME!
Mortal Online Vids
Its a bit rude to still be selling the box when they know it is going to be free. I suppose it is just the cost of a monthly sub though, so its not too bad.
Honestly, the game should be B2P, not F2P.
You all know that in two years or so there will be no pay to play games anymore. The possible exception is wow but even that is hemorrhaging subs this year. There is a major shift going on in the MMO industry right now and SWTOR just had the bad luck to release a game right in the middle of a shift to free to play from P2P. Now the developer did make some major epic mistakes like not enough endgame content and thinking that people would just reroll alts after they got to endgame. Anyone of this forum could have told them that wasn't going to work.
I would bet in 2 years the only games that are still P2P are wow and eve that's it all the rest will be free to play eve for sure wow is shaky.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
To be fair these retailers paid to stock these items hoping to make a profit.
The fools!
a yo ho ho