sPvP has always been normalized, in order to make it about skill and experience, not a gear grind.
Stats and gear still matter in PvE and WvW.
In WvW, your effective level is upped to 80, but there is still an advantage for the higher level character with the better gear.
In PvE, you still need to level up and keep your gear fairly current to tackle content your level and a bit above. Level Scaling down for lower level content just keeps the entire game viable to you. The true level 40 doing level 20 content will still have a bit easier time at it than when they were actually level 20, but the power curve becomes very shallow. Who could complain about this? The entire world remains viable content vs. the loss of easy farming of lower level zones? I'll take more viable content anyday!
Taken from the link I posted from one of Colddog04's posts. Gear progression:
Dungeons:
Dungeon tokens are obtained by completing explorable mode runs of each dungeon. Each dungeon on average nets 41 tokens for each completed explorable mode run: 20 tokens for the main boss and 7 for each of the three mini bosses. It is possible to obtain more than 41 per run as mobs occasionally drop tokens.
If we want a full set of level 80 exotic gear we would need to run: 1800/41 = 43.9 = 44 Dungeon runs
For a 2 handed weapon we would need to run: 390/41 = 9.5 = 10 runs
For a main and off hand we would need to run: 510/41 = 12.4 = 13 runs
A person who wants a full set of exotics and a main and off hand from the same dungeon vendor would need to do 57 dungeon runs.
The dungeon tokens needed per weapon are from beta and thus may change but it gives you an idea of how hard exotics will to get from dungeons.
WvW This is for level 60 exotic gear only - couldn't find the level 80 vendor sorry. For those wondering, badges of honours are rewards dropped by opposing players, mobs and from keep sieges. They may often be concealed in loot bags.
Head = 260 Badges of Honour
Shoulder = 229 Badges of Honour
Chest = 312 Badges of Honour
Glove = 188 Badges of Honour
Leg = 292 Badges of Honour
Feet = 208 Badges of Honour
Total (6-Piece (Full) Set) = 1489 Badges of Honour
How hard is it to get badges of honour? From a typical 1hr hectic WvW play the average player will get 10-20 badges depending on luck and remembering to loot corpses too!
Being optimistic, at 20 badges/hour that means: 1489/20 = 74.45 = 75 hours
That's 75 hours for a level 60 exotic gear set (not 80 remember).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Even in games people like to call pure gear-grinds, PVP is not only about the gear. Anyone who says this hasn't played against a very good player. In many MMOs that include gear progression, a mediocre player with great gear will routinely lose against a great player with mediocre gear.
Gear is just a system of producing tangible "goals" for the player in terms of progressing your character. For some players (myself included), character progression is important. And I don't mean collecting purely cosmetic stuff or enrichening your story. I mean stuff that makes your character stronger, or at least gives your more options to choose from (as in, say, EVE's sort of progression, which I'd say I prefer). To me, such progression gives some more depth to my character so that I wouldn't feel like it's a Quake toon (and as much as I do love Quake, I'm not exactly attached to my character there).
The legendary crafting seems like a good goal, though. Let's see if that'll be enough.
Chess is played by millions of people around the wrold, and has been the same (balanced) game for centuries; no matter how many matches you win you'll never get an invincible king or queen that has ultimate special finisher moves. The nearly 9000 results that came up when I typed "chess set" into the search feature on Amazon.com would suggest that people like to buy a variety of models of game pieces (cosmetic progression, oh noes!).
Games needing artificial progression of power to trap people into playing are very new, and a flawed idea which has already passed it's prime. Games are meant to be played for fun/challenge.
Originally posted by solarine
(1)Even in games people like to call pure gear-grinds, PVP is not only about the gear. Anyone who says this hasn't played against a very good player. In many MMOs that include gear progression, a mediocre player with great gear will routinely lose against a great player with mediocre gear.
(2)Gear is just a system of producing tangible "goals" for the player in terms of progressing your character. For some players (myself included), character progression is important. And I don't mean collecting purely cosmetic stuff or enrichening your story. I mean stuff that makes your character stronger, or at least gives your more options to choose from (as in, say, EVE's sort of progression, which I'd say I prefer). To me, such progression gives some more depth to my character so that I wouldn't feel like it's a Quake toon (and as much as I do love Quake, I'm not exactly attached to my character there).
The legendary crafting seems like a good goal, though. Let's see if that'll be enough.
(1) The problem in that scenario is not the mediorce player being beaten by the lesser geared (but more skilled) player. It's that in a fight between 2 players of equal skill but different gear (read: time spent playing =/= skill) the gear becomes the deciding factor. Just because skill can occasionally overcome disadvantage, is not a good reason to make an unfair game.
(2) I must be missing something here (I'm old and my brain is slow, so that's not unusual) but how is getting really cool looking gear that shows you've taken a long time and played through hard content not a "tangible goal"?
It might give you a special feeling to get more "powerful", but what about the guy who joins a year or 2 from now, and can't ever catch up to your level of power? Do you think he's gonna look at you as a god of gaming, or just the jerk that got there first? MMOs need to be constantly bringing in new players to be successful, power differential is a big reason many fail to attract a consistent new player base.
Taken from the link I posted from one of Colddog04's posts. Gear progression:
Dungeons:
Dungeon tokens are obtained by completing explorable mode runs of each dungeon. Each dungeon on average nets 41 tokens for each completed explorable mode run: 20 tokens for the main boss and 7 for each of the three mini bosses. It is possible to obtain more than 41 per run as mobs occasionally drop tokens.
If we want a full set of level 80 exotic gear we would need to run: 1800/41 = 43.9 = 44 Dungeon runs
For a 2 handed weapon we would need to run: 390/41 = 9.5 = 10 runs
For a main and off hand we would need to run: 510/41 = 12.4 = 13 runs
A person who wants a full set of exotics and a main and off hand from the same dungeon vendor would need to do 57 dungeon runs.
The dungeon tokens needed per weapon are from beta and thus may change but it gives you an idea of how hard exotics will to get from dungeons.
WvW This is for level 60 exotic gear only - couldn't find the level 80 vendor sorry. For those wondering, badges of honours are rewards dropped by opposing players, mobs and from keep sieges. They may often be concealed in loot bags.
Head = 260 Badges of Honour
Shoulder = 229 Badges of Honour
Chest = 312 Badges of Honour
Glove = 188 Badges of Honour
Leg = 292 Badges of Honour
Feet = 208 Badges of Honour
Total (6-Piece (Full) Set) = 1489 Badges of Honour
How hard is it to get badges of honour? From a typical 1hr hectic WvW play the average player will get 10-20 badges depending on luck and remembering to loot corpses too!
Being optimistic, at 20 badges/hour that means: 1489/20 = 74.45 = 75 hours
That's 75 hours for a level 60 exotic gear set (not 80 remember).
think a lot see you get a set of 80 gear for sPVP and feel there is no gear progression.. but as you can see there very much is a gear progression in PVE which in turn reflects WvWvW... there is also stat progression as shown in the last link distopia put up. So there is all these things they are just done is some cases in a differn't way and they don't tier the gear at max level allowing people to get insanely more powerfull stuff... so all in all there is plenty of incentives to get better stuff just don't expect to run around one shotting people. Even in sPVP there is progression just more of the cosmetic type and you can see a nice video taugrim did on that in my sig under Hot Topics.. so all these together gives you a LOT of time to work on gear not to mention for people who want to play mutliple classes
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Try not to think of what is not, gear progression is so not the way to go. Just putting together a structured build not only for yourself but a guild of you in Guild Wars 1 and putting down another team in GvG or HoH was an INCREDIBLE feeling so try to think of it on these standards!
Taken from the link I posted from one of Colddog04's posts. Gear progression:
Dungeons:
Dungeon tokens are obtained by completing explorable mode runs of each dungeon. Each dungeon on average nets 41 tokens for each completed explorable mode run: 20 tokens for the main boss and 7 for each of the three mini bosses. It is possible to obtain more than 41 per run as mobs occasionally drop tokens.
If we want a full set of level 80 exotic gear we would need to run: 1800/41 = 43.9 = 44 Dungeon runs
For a 2 handed weapon we would need to run: 390/41 = 9.5 = 10 runs
For a main and off hand we would need to run: 510/41 = 12.4 = 13 runs
A person who wants a full set of exotics and a main and off hand from the same dungeon vendor would need to do 57 dungeon runs.
The dungeon tokens needed per weapon are from beta and thus may change but it gives you an idea of how hard exotics will to get from dungeons.
WvW This is for level 60 exotic gear only - couldn't find the level 80 vendor sorry. For those wondering, badges of honours are rewards dropped by opposing players, mobs and from keep sieges. They may often be concealed in loot bags.
Head = 260 Badges of Honour
Shoulder = 229 Badges of Honour
Chest = 312 Badges of Honour
Glove = 188 Badges of Honour
Leg = 292 Badges of Honour
Feet = 208 Badges of Honour
Total (6-Piece (Full) Set) = 1489 Badges of Honour
How hard is it to get badges of honour? From a typical 1hr hectic WvW play the average player will get 10-20 badges depending on luck and remembering to loot corpses too!
Being optimistic, at 20 badges/hour that means: 1489/20 = 74.45 = 75 hours
That's 75 hours for a level 60 exotic gear set (not 80 remember).
think a lot see you get a set of 80 gear for sPVP and feel there is no gear progression.. but as you can see there very much is a gear progression in PVE which in turn reflects WvWvW... there is also stat progression as shown in the last link distopia put up. So there is all these things they are just done is some cases in a differn't way and they don't tier the gear at max level allowing people to get insanely more powerfull stuff... so all in all there is plenty of incentives to get better stuff just don't expect to run around one shotting people. Even in sPVP there is progression just more of the cosmetic type and you can see a nice video taugrim did on that in my sig under Hot Topics.. so all these together gives you a LOT of time to work on gear not to mention for people who want to play mutliple classes
I know almost nothing about this game but this post caught my eye. The content is there but you can jump into high level PvP and be competitive almost immediately? There is no boundry to hold back skilled players? Is that it?
i'd check out my sig has stuff on all of this but yes.. once you create your character pass the opening story bit you can go to the mists(instant port) which allows you to take place in sPVP right out the gate with full level 80 gear and skills.. think of it almost like a seprate character from from PVE/WvWvW character
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Taken from the link I posted from one of Colddog04's posts. Gear progression:
Dungeons:
Dungeon tokens are obtained by completing explorable mode runs of each dungeon. Each dungeon on average nets 41 tokens for each completed explorable mode run: 20 tokens for the main boss and 7 for each of the three mini bosses. It is possible to obtain more than 41 per run as mobs occasionally drop tokens.
If we want a full set of level 80 exotic gear we would need to run: 1800/41 = 43.9 = 44 Dungeon runs
For a 2 handed weapon we would need to run: 390/41 = 9.5 = 10 runs
For a main and off hand we would need to run: 510/41 = 12.4 = 13 runs
A person who wants a full set of exotics and a main and off hand from the same dungeon vendor would need to do 57 dungeon runs.
The dungeon tokens needed per weapon are from beta and thus may change but it gives you an idea of how hard exotics will to get from dungeons.
WvW This is for level 60 exotic gear only - couldn't find the level 80 vendor sorry. For those wondering, badges of honours are rewards dropped by opposing players, mobs and from keep sieges. They may often be concealed in loot bags.
Head = 260 Badges of Honour
Shoulder = 229 Badges of Honour
Chest = 312 Badges of Honour
Glove = 188 Badges of Honour
Leg = 292 Badges of Honour
Feet = 208 Badges of Honour
Total (6-Piece (Full) Set) = 1489 Badges of Honour
How hard is it to get badges of honour? From a typical 1hr hectic WvW play the average player will get 10-20 badges depending on luck and remembering to loot corpses too!
Being optimistic, at 20 badges/hour that means: 1489/20 = 74.45 = 75 hours
That's 75 hours for a level 60 exotic gear set (not 80 remember).
think a lot see you get a set of 80 gear for sPVP and feel there is no gear progression.. but as you can see there very much is a gear progression in PVE which in turn reflects WvWvW... there is also stat progression as shown in the last link distopia put up. So there is all these things they are just done is some cases in a differn't way and they don't tier the gear at max level allowing people to get insanely more powerfull stuff... so all in all there is plenty of incentives to get better stuff just don't expect to run around one shotting people. Even in sPVP there is progression just more of the cosmetic type and you can see a nice video taugrim did on that in my sig under Hot Topics.. so all these together gives you a LOT of time to work on gear not to mention for people who want to play mutliple classes
Yep Exactly though I'd give credit to Colddog for this link, I"m merely posting info from it.
For anyone who missed it here it is again, take into account a lot of it is theory-crafted but based on numbers in the game.
Jsut to be clear, I got the link from Galaern (sp?) in one of his insightful posts from the perspective of a harcore raider. And whoever actually made that post on GuildWars2guru has done a great service for all of us.
I'm just trying to squash a bit of the misinformation that is flying around in a crazy tornado right now.
Jsut to be clear, I got the link from Galaern (sp?) in one of his insightful posts from the perspective of a harcore raider. And whoever actually made that post on GuildWars2guru has done a great service for all of us.
I'm just trying to squash a bit of the misinformation that is flying around in a crazy tornado right now.
To the OP of the post definitely, but I learned it by watching you!..:P
YEah that's all I'm interested in is the facts or at least information based on facts like in the link.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think the question in the mind of many MMO traditionalists is that does GW2 have enough interesting things to do once you reach the level cap. I don't think it needs a traditional MMO type of progression and it is actually fine to try to do a game without progressive PvE or PvP, but how successful it is going to be in a long term remains to be seen. Does it have enough interesting things to do once you reach the cap or are people just going to migrate to other games? Both will probably be true.
I do not see a point of playing games that I am no longer having fun with. Thankfully we have choice these days. We can play other games and come back to the old ones when new content is released for them. The progression is only a carrot that tries to tie people closer to their characters and to make them want to improve them further. It also allow developers to release new content infrequently as time it takes for a certain percentage to achieve that progression can be easily calculated. However, FPSs and RTSs have been successful for years as well and do not have this type of progression, so perhaps a new type of MMO can succeed as well. This remains to be seen. My opinion is that progression is one of the game defining elements of RPGs.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Sorry to everyone who thought GM2 would be the ultimate game. No meaningful progression means theres no meaning reason to play it past the first 60 hours. Can we move on to the next big MMO coming yet?
Originally posted by smokedogg311 Sorry to everyone who thought GM2 would be the ultimate game. No meaningful progression means theres no meaning reason to play it past the first 60 hours. Can we move on to the next big MMO coming yet?
This is why nobody plays Team Fortress 2 or any FPS game or Starcraft or.... well, any game that doesn't have progression, really.
Progress Quest is the epitome of game design. True fact.
Originally posted by smokedogg311 Sorry to everyone who thought GM2 would be the ultimate game. No meaningful progression means theres no meaning reason to play it past the first 60 hours. Can we move on to the next big MMO coming yet?
In PVP it's estmated to take at least 75 hours get a set of LVL 60 gear, that's just lvl 60. To get PVE gear it's estimated to take around 50 dungeon runs, Sounds like a lot more than 60 hours to get to the precious to me, that's not accounting for all the world PVE content.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by smokedogg311 Sorry to everyone who thought GM2 would be the ultimate game. No meaningful progression means theres no meaning reason to play it past the first 60 hours. Can we move on to the next big MMO coming yet?
In PVP it's estmated to take at least 75 hours get a set of LVL 60 gear, that's just lvl 60. To get PVE gear it's estimated to take around 50 dungeon runs, Sounds like a lot more than 60 hours to get to the precious to me, that's not accounting for all the world PVE content.
Yeah, it's going to take a fairly decent amount of time just to get a max set of gear. I mean, it's almost nothing compared to what it's like in other MMORPGs, but 60 hours is too little.
Though I fully expect some people to have maxed out gear almost by the end of the 3 day head start. Some people are just crazy that way.
i'd check out my sig has stuff on all of this but yes.. once you create your character pass the opening story bit you can go to the mists(instant port) which allows you to take place in sPVP right out the gate with full level 80 gear and skills.. think of it almost like a seprate character from from PVE/WvWvW character
Yowza. That is a very good thing.
indeed it is:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing.
If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW.
My job and career is where I progress.
Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.
Not everyone is sold on cosmetics. This diesn't mean GW2 is a bad game, but for those who do not view cosmetics as a form of progression, there're questions about will GW2 be able to keep their attention.
Nah, I think Anet's system is strikes the perfect chord with their PvE and PvP progressions. Idk about you but I rather play a game where I can ignore grinding for the rarest greatsword in the game but I'm at no statistical disadvantage if I stick with an exotic weapon (with masterwork skin even) of my choice.
I believe they are pics of the legendary rifle and legendary greatsword. I guess that based on the fact that they were only added last stress test and the greatsword was called Legendary Greatsword. I'd grind my ass off to get my engineer that rifle but I'd probably pass on the greatsword's skin. At least doing the latter won't make me ineligible for dungeons and what not.
Originally posted by Doomedfox It seems a lot of you GW2 fans argue that without the gear progression its the skill that will determine who wins the fight. I can only laugh at that. Of course in theory you are right but it would only matter in a 1 on 1 fight but how often will that happen? The battlegrounds are group battles and the WvWvW certainly is aiming for even bigger group battles so the skill factor does not matter that much. Now if the game would have openworld pvp than it would be a different story but it does not have open world pvp.....That said i am rather neutral on the whole progression thing on the one hand its nice to allow everyone to be equally strong equipped on the other hand do i feel like its lacking a real goal to thrive for.Cosmetic items don't interest me i would always awe for a really awesome armor or weapon sets that would boost my class (most of the time i would never get the pieces tho but thats a different story)I would rather chase the really awesome carrot on a stick than a hallow carrot (fluff cosmetic items) If it really would only be about equality and the need for skill to win they could just rate equipment and allow everyone to join pvp fights for certain ranks of equipment (you could not use rated 10 equipment in a rated 5 battle for example) this way you would have it all the carrot thats worth beeing chased and the equal fights in pvp.
I am only going to respond to the parts regarding the cosmetic items. While you might not care too much about them, many, many people will. An extremely rare cosmetic item can and will be the envy of a larger portion of the population. Looks matter to us a great deal more than we realize. All things being equal, that guy with the really bad ass armor will be far more intimidating than someone in a common set. Color and style do have an effect on your sub-conscious mind. The player's skill should be the determining factor but how confident would you feel if your armor was hot pink or powder blue up against someone in Black? You know they are technically equal but would you feel that way? You will want to wear gear that makes you feel like a beast, or at the very least the most comfortable based on your taste. Oddly enough the examples I used above could also provide you with a very powerful image. Look it up, Pink is a very powerful color when used properly.
The point is that you will be affected by cosmetic gear whether you believe it or not. We can't help but to covet and envy. It is a primal human instinct. We compete because those are primal animal instincts.
I am only going to respond to the parts regarding the cosmetic items. While you might not care too much about them, many, many people will. An extremely rare cosmetic item can and will be the envy of a larger portion of the population. Looks matter to us a great deal more than we realize. All things being equal, that guy with the really bad ass armor will be far more intimidating than someone in a common set. Color and style do have an effect on your sub-conscious mind. The player's skill should be the determining factor but how confident would you feel if your armor was hot pink or powder blue up against someone in Black? You know they are technically equal but would you feel that way? You will want to wear gear that makes you feel like a beast, or at the very least the most comfortable based on your taste. Oddly enough the examples I used above could also provide you with a very powerful image. Look it up, Pink is a very powerful color when used properly.
The point is that you will be affected by cosmetic gear whether you believe it or not. We can't help but to covet and envy. It is a primal human instinct. We compete because those are primal animal instincts.
I agree! Good example is in WoW with all the fools and their dragons parked right in front of the bank in Stormwind. The dragons did nothing for there gear stats, yet they love to show them off!
edit: snipped
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Depends really. I find this negative, but then again I believe competition should be focused in a specific sector. The carot on a stick applies to me and to be blunt, combat in GW2 isn't all that spectacular after a few minutes to make me happy playing without any real 'reward' for doing so. Even FPS games are doing rewards for playing now, and having 0 to really earn makes it unsatisfying to play unless your going real competative or your gameplay is amazing.
Don't get me wrong, GW2 is fun, but the gameplay isn't all that spectacular. Its just a standerd MMO with dodge... but minus any progression to keep you occupied. While no subscription helps, it won't be able to keep people playing nonstop either.
unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing.
If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW.
My job and career is where I progress.
Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.
Not to intimidate you or anything.... but many of us "unwashed" enjoy the challenge to excel. We enjoy excelling beyond just our career and actually press ourselves in all aspect even when we play games. It is true many MMOs add a level of gear grind to PvP which seems a bit much but that is besides the fact.
If chilling out is what you are after that's cool, but normalization is more a crutch for the lazy and complacent that don't want to work for anything...
Let me guess your the guy that tells his friends that you want to play poker for pennies you know.. "for fun"...
Or after a couple beers at the backyard BBQ everyone starts throwing the football around and ...you meekly ask, hey guys can we play flag ? it's just for fun, we don't want anybody to get hurt....
Competition isn't based on chilling for fun.... It is about working hard, trying hard, playing hard and winning.
Comments
sPvP has always been normalized, in order to make it about skill and experience, not a gear grind.
Stats and gear still matter in PvE and WvW.
In WvW, your effective level is upped to 80, but there is still an advantage for the higher level character with the better gear.
In PvE, you still need to level up and keep your gear fairly current to tackle content your level and a bit above. Level Scaling down for lower level content just keeps the entire game viable to you. The true level 40 doing level 20 content will still have a bit easier time at it than when they were actually level 20, but the power curve becomes very shallow. Who could complain about this? The entire world remains viable content vs. the loss of easy farming of lower level zones? I'll take more viable content anyday!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Taken from the link I posted from one of Colddog04's posts. Gear progression:
Dungeons:
Dungeon tokens are obtained by completing explorable mode runs of each dungeon. Each dungeon on average nets 41 tokens for each completed explorable mode run: 20 tokens for the main boss and 7 for each of the three mini bosses. It is possible to obtain more than 41 per run as mobs occasionally drop tokens.
If we want a full set of level 80 exotic gear we would need to run:
1800/41 = 43.9
= 44 Dungeon runs
For a 2 handed weapon we would need to run:
390/41 = 9.5
= 10 runs
For a main and off hand we would need to run:
510/41
= 12.4
= 13 runs
A person who wants a full set of exotics and a main and off hand from the same dungeon vendor would need to do 57 dungeon runs.
The dungeon tokens needed per weapon are from beta and thus may change but it gives you an idea of how hard exotics will to get from dungeons.
WvW
This is for level 60 exotic gear only - couldn't find the level 80 vendor sorry. For those wondering, badges of honours are rewards dropped by opposing players, mobs and from keep sieges. They may often be concealed in loot bags.
- Head = 260 Badges of Honour
- Shoulder = 229 Badges of Honour
- Chest = 312 Badges of Honour
- Glove = 188 Badges of Honour
- Leg = 292 Badges of Honour
- Feet = 208 Badges of Honour
- Total (6-Piece (Full) Set) = 1489 Badges of Honour
How hard is it to get badges of honour?From a typical 1hr hectic WvW play the average player will get 10-20 badges depending on luck and remembering to loot corpses too!
Being optimistic, at 20 badges/hour that means:
1489/20 = 74.45
= 75 hours
That's 75 hours for a level 60 exotic gear set (not 80 remember).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Even in games people like to call pure gear-grinds, PVP is not only about the gear. Anyone who says this hasn't played against a very good player. In many MMOs that include gear progression, a mediocre player with great gear will routinely lose against a great player with mediocre gear.
Gear is just a system of producing tangible "goals" for the player in terms of progressing your character. For some players (myself included), character progression is important. And I don't mean collecting purely cosmetic stuff or enrichening your story. I mean stuff that makes your character stronger, or at least gives your more options to choose from (as in, say, EVE's sort of progression, which I'd say I prefer). To me, such progression gives some more depth to my character so that I wouldn't feel like it's a Quake toon (and as much as I do love Quake, I'm not exactly attached to my character there).
The legendary crafting seems like a good goal, though. Let's see if that'll be enough.
Hmmmmm, this thread again, huh?
Guess I'll give my usual answer.
Chess is played by millions of people around the wrold, and has been the same (balanced) game for centuries; no matter how many matches you win you'll never get an invincible king or queen that has ultimate special finisher moves. The nearly 9000 results that came up when I typed "chess set" into the search feature on Amazon.com would suggest that people like to buy a variety of models of game pieces (cosmetic progression, oh noes!).
Games needing artificial progression of power to trap people into playing are very new, and a flawed idea which has already passed it's prime. Games are meant to be played for fun/challenge.
(1) The problem in that scenario is not the mediorce player being beaten by the lesser geared (but more skilled) player. It's that in a fight between 2 players of equal skill but different gear (read: time spent playing =/= skill) the gear becomes the deciding factor. Just because skill can occasionally overcome disadvantage, is not a good reason to make an unfair game.
(2) I must be missing something here (I'm old and my brain is slow, so that's not unusual) but how is getting really cool looking gear that shows you've taken a long time and played through hard content not a "tangible goal"?
It might give you a special feeling to get more "powerful", but what about the guy who joins a year or 2 from now, and can't ever catch up to your level of power? Do you think he's gonna look at you as a god of gaming, or just the jerk that got there first? MMOs need to be constantly bringing in new players to be successful, power differential is a big reason many fail to attract a consistent new player base.
think a lot see you get a set of 80 gear for sPVP and feel there is no gear progression.. but as you can see there very much is a gear progression in PVE which in turn reflects WvWvW... there is also stat progression as shown in the last link distopia put up. So there is all these things they are just done is some cases in a differn't way and they don't tier the gear at max level allowing people to get insanely more powerfull stuff... so all in all there is plenty of incentives to get better stuff just don't expect to run around one shotting people. Even in sPVP there is progression just more of the cosmetic type and you can see a nice video taugrim did on that in my sig under Hot Topics.. so all these together gives you a LOT of time to work on gear not to mention for people who want to play mutliple classes
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
i'd check out my sig has stuff on all of this but yes.. once you create your character pass the opening story bit you can go to the mists(instant port) which allows you to take place in sPVP right out the gate with full level 80 gear and skills.. think of it almost like a seprate character from from PVE/WvWvW character
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yep Exactly though I'd give credit to Colddog for this link, I"m merely posting info from it.
For anyone who missed it here it is again, take into account a lot of it is theory-crafted but based on numbers in the game.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/46603-faq-equipment-attributes-and-you-updated/
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Jsut to be clear, I got the link from Galaern (sp?) in one of his insightful posts from the perspective of a harcore raider. And whoever actually made that post on GuildWars2guru has done a great service for all of us.
I'm just trying to squash a bit of the misinformation that is flying around in a crazy tornado right now.
To the OP of the post definitely, but I learned it by watching you!..:P
YEah that's all I'm interested in is the facts or at least information based on facts like in the link.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think the question in the mind of many MMO traditionalists is that does GW2 have enough interesting things to do once you reach the level cap. I don't think it needs a traditional MMO type of progression and it is actually fine to try to do a game without progressive PvE or PvP, but how successful it is going to be in a long term remains to be seen. Does it have enough interesting things to do once you reach the cap or are people just going to migrate to other games? Both will probably be true.
I do not see a point of playing games that I am no longer having fun with. Thankfully we have choice these days. We can play other games and come back to the old ones when new content is released for them. The progression is only a carrot that tries to tie people closer to their characters and to make them want to improve them further. It also allow developers to release new content infrequently as time it takes for a certain percentage to achieve that progression can be easily calculated. However, FPSs and RTSs have been successful for years as well and do not have this type of progression, so perhaps a new type of MMO can succeed as well. This remains to be seen. My opinion is that progression is one of the game defining elements of RPGs.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
how is "matched servers" (according to their 'elo') not progressive again?
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
This is why nobody plays Team Fortress 2 or any FPS game or Starcraft or.... well, any game that doesn't have progression, really.
Progress Quest is the epitome of game design. True fact.
In PVP it's estmated to take at least 75 hours get a set of LVL 60 gear, that's just lvl 60. To get PVE gear it's estimated to take around 50 dungeon runs, Sounds like a lot more than 60 hours to get to the precious to me, that's not accounting for all the world PVE content.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah, it's going to take a fairly decent amount of time just to get a max set of gear. I mean, it's almost nothing compared to what it's like in other MMORPGs, but 60 hours is too little.
Though I fully expect some people to have maxed out gear almost by the end of the 3 day head start. Some people are just crazy that way.
indeed it is:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Nah, I think Anet's system is strikes the perfect chord with their PvE and PvP progressions. Idk about you but I rather play a game where I can ignore grinding for the rarest greatsword in the game but I'm at no statistical disadvantage if I stick with an exotic weapon (with masterwork skin even) of my choice.
Take a look at these two pics I grabbed last stress test: http://minus.com/miqZe9ViJ/
I believe they are pics of the legendary rifle and legendary greatsword. I guess that based on the fact that they were only added last stress test and the greatsword was called Legendary Greatsword. I'd grind my ass off to get my engineer that rifle but I'd probably pass on the greatsword's skin. At least doing the latter won't make me ineligible for dungeons and what not.
Is.....that you....bcbully? o.o
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/359874/Aerowyns-Video-Compilation-of-ALL-things-Guild-Wars-2.html
I am only going to respond to the parts regarding the cosmetic items. While you might not care too much about them, many, many people will. An extremely rare cosmetic item can and will be the envy of a larger portion of the population. Looks matter to us a great deal more than we realize.
All things being equal, that guy with the really bad ass armor will be far more intimidating than someone in a common set. Color and style do have an effect on your sub-conscious mind. The player's skill should be the determining factor but how confident would you feel if your armor was hot pink or powder blue up against someone in Black? You know they are technically equal but would you feel that way?
You will want to wear gear that makes you feel like a beast, or at the very least the most comfortable based on your taste. Oddly enough the examples I used above could also provide you with a very powerful image. Look it up, Pink is a very powerful color when used properly.
The point is that you will be affected by cosmetic gear whether you believe it or not. We can't help but to covet and envy. It is a primal human instinct. We compete because those are primal animal instincts.
I agree! Good example is in WoW with all the fools and their dragons parked right in front of the bank in Stormwind. The dragons did nothing for there gear stats, yet they love to show them off!
edit: snipped
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Depends really. I find this negative, but then again I believe competition should be focused in a specific sector. The carot on a stick applies to me and to be blunt, combat in GW2 isn't all that spectacular after a few minutes to make me happy playing without any real 'reward' for doing so. Even FPS games are doing rewards for playing now, and having 0 to really earn makes it unsatisfying to play unless your going real competative or your gameplay is amazing.
Don't get me wrong, GW2 is fun, but the gameplay isn't all that spectacular. Its just a standerd MMO with dodge... but minus any progression to keep you occupied. While no subscription helps, it won't be able to keep people playing nonstop either.
Not to intimidate you or anything.... but many of us "unwashed" enjoy the challenge to excel. We enjoy excelling beyond just our career and actually press ourselves in all aspect even when we play games. It is true many MMOs add a level of gear grind to PvP which seems a bit much but that is besides the fact.
If chilling out is what you are after that's cool, but normalization is more a crutch for the lazy and complacent that don't want to work for anything...
Let me guess your the guy that tells his friends that you want to play poker for pennies you know.. "for fun"...
Or after a couple beers at the backyard BBQ everyone starts throwing the football around and ...you meekly ask, hey guys can we play flag ? it's just for fun, we don't want anybody to get hurt....
Competition isn't based on chilling for fun.... It is about working hard, trying hard, playing hard and winning.