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Perma Death question
Shaikura
Member Posts: 61
What is all this smacktalk about wanting perma death in mmo's?You guys would pay to play a game where all your hard work on a character could end in death.You would have to start all over again from lvl 1
Are you guys joking or just trying to sound cool?Perma death games would last a minute and have the smallest playerbase ever.I hate when people post this stuff so they can sound cool.Because thats all these guys are doing.
I would never play any game that had this in it.I would be pissed off if after months of building my character,to die and be lvl 1 with no skills or anything that i work hard to achieve.Or even have to make a new character from scratch.
And what kills me is some dev's are listening to this crap.Sure go ahead and add it to your games and watch how many players stick around.Talk about shooting yourself in the head,just by listening to this crap.
Comments
characters in a game with permadeath would not start out as pathetic as most level-based games start their 1st levels
I don't believe any character should start out as pathetic, as a game is meant to be fun and not tedious. The devs still have in mind that games are hobbies (and to some of us they are) but I think they need to shift back to being plain and simple fun. For instance, in ADOM you start out with roughly 100 gold to get started and maybe some leathers or chainmail and a good weapon and some other odd things. You don't start out with ragged clothes and sell rat tails and buy dirty ragged leather armor. Seriously, who the heck is going to sell dirty ragged leather? Why not regular leather? Wow! There's a new idea... -_-
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
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There's a lot to be said in favor of Perma-death. But you're right, if a game is ONLY about grinding then it probably wouldn't work out. You can't just look at that one thing, perma-death, and judge a game solely on that. You have to look at the overall design of the game and ask yourself if perma-death will work out well in that game world.
Honestly, I don't really understand the reactionary fear some people seem to have of perma-death. Sooner or later you give up all of your game characters anyway. Haven't you ever retired an older character and started over with a new one? One of the main benifits of perma-death is that it would prevent a game world from becoming top heavy with advanced characters. It would help keep the game fresh. There are a lot of other benefits to it as well but that's the most obvious one.
HEY Rentantilus,there's no need to come off as a smart ass.I just want to know if you perma death fans are for real.And i'm not some little kid.Your post always seem to talk about not enough risk in games.Maybe you need to play something else.
As far as the other poster saying you would not start out at lvl 1 makes more sense to me now as how it would work, and i thank you for that.I just could'nt see starting out at lvl 1 in a game like that.I guess some people need to come off better than someone else in their post.
It's to show off how they can reach a high level without dying once.
Only a hardcore gamer (AKA: Someone without a life) would enjoy playing that kind of style.
Sorry if you're offended by that, but take a look at yourself in the mirror, then come back to me.
That's why there are barely no successful MMORPGs that have perma-death, cause if they want to make money, they have to sell games to people that DO go to work, or DO go to school and have their parents pay for it.
___________ ___ __ _ _ _
Stealth - Ambush - Hemorrhage - Sinister Strike x2 - Cold Blood - Eviscerate - Vanish - Preparation - Cold Blood - Ambush - ... you're dead! :P
While you make a point Johnark, I feel that the reason that there are no popular Perma-death mmorpgs is that they are to centered around leveling.
Also the current playstyle of the mmorpg is one of little planning.
Say a player comes across a monster. If he attacks it in a current mmorpg whats the worst that could happen? 10 minutes work lost? Hey and if he fluky he could get maybe twice as much as he would lose!
But if a player in a perma-Death mmorpg comes across a monster they have to pause for thought. "Can i take it? Should I get my team to help me?"
Theres a good reason D&D was built for groups of adventures, so they could play off each others skills.
I think perma-death would force players to think, and to band up in groups. To be honest i can only see this helping the genre
Just thought while writing this that maybe the lines could be blurred slighty, and players have a certain number of respawns before perna-death? Like you have unlimited under level 5 but after you have only 3.
Just throwing about ideas
Rent,
thanks for being the PD advocate for this thread. My carpel tunnel is killing me these days. Unfortunately we are swimming upstream as usual.
Keep up the good fight.
~PD
www.TheChippedDagger.com My 90-day 2D Java MMORPG project
They that can give up essential liberty for temporary safetey deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. -- Milton Berle
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Listen Asmodeeus, seven years ago, Ultima Online didn't even have those pathetic "quests" that you refer to or those "professions" of ninja, samurai, necromancer, and paladin. Nor did it have any of the neon crap, or bug mounts. It didn't even have any "combat moves." You turned on attack and jousted with simplistic swings. It was a better game then. if you can't guess why then just uninstall the thing and move along. - Crabby
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Listen Asmodeeus, seven years ago, Ultima Online didn't even have those pathetic "quests" that you refer to or those "professions" of ninja, samurai, necromancer, and paladin. Nor did it have any of the neon crap, or bug mounts. It didn't even have any "combat moves." You turned on attack and jousted with simplistic swings. It was a better game then. if you can't guess why then just uninstall the thing and move along. - Crabby
I have to respond to the idea that a perma-death game would only be for the hardcore (time intensive) players who have no life other than gaming.
That's completely wrong. Perma-death would be the great equalizer. See, the thing with perma-death is that sooner or later everyone dies. That means that those hardcore players who shoot ahead of everyone else will get knocked back down eventually.
The hardcore guy will play more and advance faster. The casual player plays less and advances more slowly. But the hardcore guy, simply because he plays more often, will be likely to die sooner than the casual. Their characters might die after the same number of hours played but the hardcore plays more hours in any given real time period.
So it works out for both of them. The hardcore guy might burn through ten characters in the time it takes the casual to go through one. But the casual guy won't be left hopelessly behind. Because people in the game are constantly starting over. So by the time he has a well developed character he can still enjoy being one of the big boys for a while (until he perma-dies) because there will always be a good range of new--to--advanced characters in the game. So a casual can play at his own pace and have just as much chance as a hardcore guy to be a big shot for a while. The only difference is that the hardcore guy gets more chances to be a big shot because he goes through character life cycles faster. But at least the casual guy knows he can do everything a hardcore can do without being left hopelessly behind, he just gets there slower.
Another great thing about perma-death if it's in a PvP game is that the real jerks of the world will be the ones who tend to die the most. But with perma-death it would actually matter. The more someone acted like a jerk the more often they would get knocked back to square one.
If anyone is interested in a very promising perma-death game with PvP (still in development) go check out Trials of Ascension. Especially if you're looking for a virtual world that feels like a world. And if you're a roleplayer, it's my opinion that ToA is your last best hope. Their perma-death system uses life counters. You get 100 lives (100 respawns) and then you perma-die. They were going to have characters die of old age as well but that idea was scrapped.
Now THATS what I've been looking for! Fantasy, actual consequences, and SKILL BASED. I cant think of anything I'd like better...lets hope it turns out as good as it sounds!
Are you LFG JediPrincess?
Permadeath is appealing to about 10-20% of my friends, 50% have it in pure raw horror. As long as it is a ''nerfed'' permadeath(like lifes per month that restore after the month), I find it appealing myself, but a pure permadeath and I walk away like many persons without even trying the game.
If skill matter(aka reflexs), I wont be playing the game anyway, so I cant care less what happen in it!
The more thinking and the less waiting, and the happier I am...as long as I can overcome the challenge, I may either try again or walk away on a few failures, depend on HOPE.
Also, once you lose your character, why restore subscription? I mean, my main character is ''Game Over'' for good, I am done and their is so many others games, why would I replay the same over and over again(I admit I do it with Civs and SSI products, but there is no monthly fees involved with those game to replay them). In a nefed perma-death where I am dead for the month only, I am waiting for the end of the month while the casuals are catching on me, acceptable trade off, I can also play another toon(s) if I want until my main get lifes back. In all my RPGs, I never replace my main character personnally, it was always the main character, and even if others reach it level, they where nothing but twinks or alternates...Pure permadeath remove my main interest, once and for all.
But some players would play it and love it, a lot of them? That remain to be proven!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Here is the current, recent, modern, thread to post all perma-death questions in:
http://mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm?load=forums&loadClass=35&loadForum=51&loadThread=35176
I was hjust thinking about this one.. and thought of something that was a bit like renta's idea..
Mains and alts.
ingame, you have 1 main... he has no restrictions, but when he dies, he dies.
you can also awuire "alt" slots - say for an extra 1 per slot... these can be filled by other characters you meet/hire/befriend. They can act just like the main, except they are skill capped - eg, can only max out say, 2 skills or something like that.
An alt could be made effectively into 1 "class", ie, train a weapon+ armour, or a weapon + stealth, etc... these alts are also permadeath, but since they are capped and more "disposable" you are willing to let them die in certain occassions.
also - they act like "backup" incase your main dies... you will then be able to select one of those alts as a main.
thirdly, an alt can only incapacitate, never kill, a main.(not sure about this one) but when incapacitated, you can loot anything you want.
Would that be a more acceptable permadeath solution? Just curious