The whole situation boils down to former D2 developers telling D3 developers that their game is shitty, and an abomination to everything that D2 holds dear (my words but just a summary). Then D3 developer gets butt-hurt and tells D2 developer to @#$ off.
Well I hold no love to this situation per se .. but I do side with the D2 dev's, because D3 was an abhorrant to D2.
D2 was meant to be played again and again, like a quality game. D3 is a money factory to be played and bought and played some more, then bought .. then played some more... I dislike D3 because of it's gameplay simplicity compared to D2. I also hate how Activision-Blizzard is trying to rake in some cash on this game, rather than treating it as a solid SPRG to remember fondly.
Originally posted by MMOExposed I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?
It's made by Blizzard, seems to be it's only sin, that and the story.
Not really. The problem is that it is a follow up to 2 better games. If it released set in the Warcraft IP instead people would have liked it a lot more.
Good but not as good as it sequels, that you cant play it offline and the auction house are its 3 sins.
Originally posted by MMOExposed I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?
Loads of WoW players bought an action RPG expecting an MMO.
I mean D3 has its issues even as the type of game its supposed to be but the fact is most of those 10 million sales are from people that have never even played D1/2. Its this new generation of "gamers", the ones that don't actually play games but just sit on forums bitching about everything.
Good on Jay Wilson anyway, hes right, Bervik is just one man who has been riding on other peoples success just like fucking Bill Roper did. The fact is people like them have done fuck all since leaving Blizzard, while the actual talent has gone on to make even more successful games (Guild Wars, Torchlight etc).
Its amusing how these leeches always end up making these pointless interviews, suppose when you can't find people to all the hard work you've got to make do with the little fame you've got left.
I don't know the circumstances of Dave Brevik leaving Blizzard in 2005 but I will say, in the video, he was polite as can be while still being honest.
For the Blizzard team, specifically Jay Wilson, to react the way they did is a little disconcerting. I understand this can be a dog eat dog world - where everybody is vying for the best title and command over the best project - but its ridiculous not to respect the veterans of your position that paved the way for you to be at where you are.
BTW: nice little tidbit about the name of Diablo coming from Mt. Diablo - i've driven past that place multiple times while traveling through Northern California. (Bay Area woot woot)
Originally posted by MMOExposed I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?
Loads of WoW players bought an action RPG expecting an MMO.
I mean D3 has its issues even as the type of game its supposed to be but the fact is most of those 10 million sales are from people that have never even played D1/2. Its this new generation of "gamers", the ones that don't actually play games but just sit on forums bitching about everything.
Good on Jay Wilson anyway, hes right, Bervik is just one man who has been riding on other peoples success just like fucking Bill Roper did. The fact is people like them have done fuck all since leaving Blizzard, while the actual talent has gone on to make even more successful games (Guild Wars, Torchlight etc).
Its amusing how these leeches always end up making these pointless interviews, suppose when you can't find people to all the hard work you've got to make do with the little fame you've got left.
Loads of Diablo players bought a down sized MMO expecting a true ARPG and a real Diablo game.
This is another example that the "everyone is expendable" doesn't always stick.
Most of all in creative positions cause not everyone has the same vision and everyone want's to add their own "mark" into a game they took over.
This however can be a HIT or a huge MISS and in this case it was more a miss.
When I saw the screenshots with some of the replies of Jay and some others I was ashamed to be a game designer (Independant developer) myself.
He was the game director of this game which means he represents the game and the business so showing such a immature behaviour over the net is definately out of place in my opinion. "Fuck this guy"? Really?
Hellgate might had its issues but honestly, I loved the atmosphere and the overall feeling it gave one when you were moving through the mists and encountered all this zombielike creatures.
Yes it wasn't totally polished but it was something they could had worked on and got rather destroyed by the contracts and paperwork behind it (server issues mostly aswell) than the game design itself.
As far as I know it's free to play and still hosted and active?
D3 which I didn't bought but know through my colleguae who did, was a "ok" game but the bottom line is, that it's only a shadow of the first two games and definately didn't live up to the expectations.
They should had rather added only new graphics and a few tweaks here and there instead of destroying a very entertaining title that held people on their screens for many years.
Andrew Silvernail: "Don't worry about it Haga, you made the fastest selling PC game of all time. He made Hellgate: London."
This is one of the most ignorant and baffling things i've read in awhile. They don't seem to realize that the only reason d3 sold so well is 100% a result of Diablo's 1 and 2 being the legends that they are and the prestigious status they gave Blizzard.
"The fastest selling PC game of all time" can be credited to David Brevik and the rest of Blizzard North. It has nothing to do with the current Blizzard team.
Talk about having 0 respect for the people that worked hard so you could have a cushy job where you just coast by on the backs of your predecessors that gave you legendary IP's like 'Diablo', 'Warcraft' and 'Starcraft' which automatically sell a gazillion copies regardless of the actual game you make. Must. Be. Nice.
Originally posted by MMOExposed I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?
It's made by Blizzard, seems to be it's only sin, that and the story.
Remember Mephisto's speech in D2 Act3? That kind of writing was not present in D3.
I know man, that is the sad part for me, with so much less, Blizzard games used to do so much more with the story in the past. I'll admit that I was very late to the Diablo party and finished D2 only when I saw D3 announced, so for me, D2 was a game with extremely boring combat, lackluster locations, but story that I could watch and rewatch, enjoying it every time. D3, I cringe at the main story and wonder how could it be so meh while companions, crafters, even random townsfolk have so much more interesting stories than the main theme.
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by SonofSeth
Originally posted by MMOExposed I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?
It's made by Blizzard, seems to be it's only sin, that and the story.
Not really. The problem is that it is a follow up to 2 better games. If it released set in the Warcraft IP instead people would have liked it a lot more.
Good but not as good as it sequels, that you cant play it offline and the auction house are its 3 sins.
Like I said, I didn't play D1 and D2 when it was the new hotness, so I can look at D3 without the nostalgia geting in the way and I can tell you right here, D3 from a systems and gameplay point of view is by far the best game out of the three. Auction house, always online, story, art direction, all of those are either subjective or perception issues. I can't argue against personal opinion, but we should all be able to separate perception of an issue from how much fun I'm having clicking on things and watching stuff explode bloody gory pinata style.
Blizzard didn't fuck up, they just have the most demanding and self righteous player base out there.
Well i agree in SOME cases not all.Example Tanaka at Square Enix was the MAIn guy with smarts,without him i see a bunch of nonsense.
What i have seen with subsequent games is people become locked into their way of thinking,they are not able to expand.So they see Wow vanilla and think nothing should ever change,they see Diablo and think it should remain the same.I saw the same thing when EQ2 came out.all the EQ1 vets were crying.It is a debate on weather SWG NGE was an improvement or just more vanilla players whining over change.
What i saw just on these forums was a lot of fanbois that were waiting to buy Diablo no matter what game showed up.I think people should be MUCh more diligent in throwing money around,do more homework and make sure you are happy with your purchase.
When Starcraft anotehr Blizzard product was going into Beta people were spending retarded money for Beta keys on Ebay,it shows how careless peopel are in spending money and that the TEAM obviously had no bearing on these people what so ever.
Look no further than Wow ,that team has changed a ton from day 1,yet the game actually got MORE subs for quite some time after personelle changes.Heck Wow still has the largest number of subs and i bet MOSt of the orignal team is gone.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by Indol Andrew Silvernail: "Don't worry about it Haga, you made the fastest selling PC game of all time. He made Hellgate: London."
This is one of the most ignorant and baffling things i've read in awhile. They don't seem to realize that the only reason d3 sold so well is 100% a result of Diablo's 1 and 2 being the legends that they are and the prestigious status they gave Blizzard.
"The fastest selling PC game of all time" can be credited to David Brevik and the rest of Blizzard North. It has nothing to do with the current Blizzard team.
Talk about having 0 respect for the people that worked hard so you could have a cushy job where you just coast by on the backs of your predecessors that gave you legendary IP's like 'Diablo', 'Warcraft' and 'Starcraft' which automatically sell a gazillion copies regardless of the actual game you make. Must. Be. Nice.
Exactly this. D4, if it ever gets made, is going to be a huge failure.
Originally posted by MMOExposed I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?
I think this gets glossed over a lot, but I'd say The Main Problem is the loot system. It's just terribly boring compared to D2, and it was a huge part of what made the game fun. I don't know if they intentionally gutted it for the AH, or they simply dropped the ball because they're clueless, but that major part of the IP just isn't there in D3, and the whole game is crap, because of it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Originally posted by MMOExposed I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?
I think this gets glossed over a lot, but I'd say The Main Problem is the loot system. It's just terribly boring compared to D2, and it was a huge part of what made the game fun. I don't know if they intentionally gutted it for the AH, or they simply dropped the ball because they're clueless, but that major part of the IP just isn't there in D3, and the whole game is crap, because of it.
This
The loot system was designed to make money through the RMAH. All the crap about saving people from the evil's of the black market is spin doctoring plain and simple and if you believe that crap I gotta bridge I can sell you. It's there to make money plain and simple and it destroyed the heart and soul of the original games.
D3 would have been a much better game without the RMAH
They took it a step too far
Greed is destructive not constructive and it shows in D3.
That simply shows that many of Blizzards Dev's have no class. They also have thin skins, and reacted like spoiled teenagers. The fact is D3 should have been MUCH better. They made some major bad design calls, and thats why the game isn't living up to its reputation.
But this is Blizzard... No doubt, little or nothing will happen to them, and they will continue to ignore their community.
I like how they are bragging on facebook about how they had the biggest selling game, but are too arrogant to realize that those sales are mostly due to the reputation of the two preceeding games in the series.Jay Wilson? Is he the dick who monetized the game?Way to destroy a franchise Jay
I would like to know the answer to this as well
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
Originally posted by Indol Andrew Silvernail: "Don't worry about it Haga, you made the fastest selling PC game of all time. He made Hellgate: London."
This is one of the most ignorant and baffling things i've read in awhile. They don't seem to realize that the only reason d3 sold so well is 100% a result of Diablo's 1 and 2 being the legends that they are and the prestigious status they gave Blizzard.
"The fastest selling PC game of all time" can be credited to David Brevik and the rest of Blizzard North. It has nothing to do with the current Blizzard team.
Talk about having 0 respect for the people that worked hard so you could have a cushy job where you just coast by on the backs of your predecessors that gave you legendary IP's like 'Diablo', 'Warcraft' and 'Starcraft' which automatically sell a gazillion copies regardless of the actual game you make. Must. Be. Nice.
Absolutely! Where's my thumbs up button! I love how you nailed that one on the head. They wouldn't HAVE jobs now if the real creative teams left them a legacy and they weren't the second choice for the new team after the REAL talent left to make better games (AHEM GW2, Rift, Torchlight 2).
Originally posted by MMOExposed I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?
It's made by Blizzard, seems to be it's only sin, that and the story.
Remember Mephisto's speech in D2 Act3? That kind of writing was not present in D3.
I know man, that is the sad part for me, with so much less, Blizzard games used to do so much more with the story in the past. I'll admit that I was very late to the Diablo party and finished D2 only when I saw D3 announced, so for me, D2 was a game with extremely boring combat, lackluster locations, but story that I could watch and rewatch, enjoying it every time. D3, I cringe at the main story and wonder how could it be so meh while companions, crafters, even random townsfolk have so much more interesting stories than the main theme.
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by SonofSeth
Originally posted by MMOExposed I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?
It's made by Blizzard, seems to be it's only sin, that and the story.
Not really. The problem is that it is a follow up to 2 better games. If it released set in the Warcraft IP instead people would have liked it a lot more.
Good but not as good as it sequels, that you cant play it offline and the auction house are its 3 sins.
Like I said, I didn't play D1 and D2 when it was the new hotness, so I can look at D3 without the nostalgia geting in the way and I can tell you right here, D3 from a systems and gameplay point of view is by far the best game out of the three. Auction house, always online, story, art direction, all of those are either subjective or perception issues. I can't argue against personal opinion, but we should all be able to separate perception of an issue from how much fun I'm having clicking on things and watching stuff explode bloody gory pinata style.
Blizzard didn't fuck up, they just have the most demanding and self righteous player base out there.
Are you kidding me? D3 was HORRIBLE!
I dont consider myself apart of this "demanding, self righteous player base". But all Blizzard and Diablo fans wanted, was a logical extension to D2.
D3 is not the spiritual succeer to D2. D3 is specifically designed to make Blizzard lots of money through a treadmill grind Auction House. D3 has been ruined. Its just not fun. Its work. Once you hit Inferno, you need to buy expensive equipment to survive. And its just not fun.
Just take a look at the user reviews on Metacritic if you want to know whats wrong with D3.
this isn't a simple matter of "oh Jay is a ****head, he says things like that, get over it and move on" it's a serious problem for Blizz. You see, not only do they already HAVE a bad rep by delaying content big time by using 2004 tactics in their flagship mmo, but they've further damaged it by releasing a greed heavy title D3, and when the original designer talks about how sad of a project it is and how much people hate the new one and why in a professional manner, Jay opens his mouth and further damages the company. It's like if Ghostcrawler would say something like that on fb about one of the original designers of WoW if that designer left Blizz instead of working on Titan. That's the other thing. If Vivendi actually had brains they would have done everything in their power to keep the people who are directly responsible for their fame instead of letting them go on to develop better games elsewhere like GW2, Rift, Torchlight II.
Good or not good question is that. Over 10 mil copies nobody can sell except Blizzard. As a big fan of wow and starcraft i never liked diablo. I can remember times of Baldur's Gate and that game was 1000x better. Diablo never had a soul it was empty game for me and that guy in video is worst game creator ever but he had lucky star in his system with name Blizzard
Originally posted by bubaluba Good or not good question is that. Over 10 mil copies nobody can sell except Blizzard. As a big fan of wow and starcraft i never liked diablo. I can remember times of Baldur's Gate and that game was 1000x better. Diablo never had a soul it was empty game for me and that guy in video is worst game creator ever but he had lucky star in his system with name Blizzard
I enjoyed it for what it was, I preferred deeper games. But there is no denying it was a blockbuster hit for its day and was the reason many people I knew, bought their first PC's
I took a look at the various comments. They were unprofessional, childish, and incredibly arrogant.
I expect shots about hellgate from people on forums but professionals in the industry who have never laid large amounts of their own money on the line to produce a game should have a little more respect for what was wagered. Those punks have no idea what Morhaime does for them at Blizzard to give them the kind of money and time to polish a piece of crap like D3 and still make money off the good name of a game released a decade ago.
They jumped the shark a while ago, now you are seeing the hubris from fanboys as devs.
Comments
It's made by Blizzard, seems to be it's only sin, that and the story.
The whole situation boils down to former D2 developers telling D3 developers that their game is shitty, and an abomination to everything that D2 holds dear (my words but just a summary). Then D3 developer gets butt-hurt and tells D2 developer to @#$ off.
Well I hold no love to this situation per se .. but I do side with the D2 dev's, because D3 was an abhorrant to D2.
D2 was meant to be played again and again, like a quality game. D3 is a money factory to be played and bought and played some more, then bought .. then played some more... I dislike D3 because of it's gameplay simplicity compared to D2. I also hate how Activision-Blizzard is trying to rake in some cash on this game, rather than treating it as a solid SPRG to remember fondly.
I'll remember this game, but it won't be fondly.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Remember Mephisto's speech in D2 Act3? That kind of writing was not present in D3.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Not really. The problem is that it is a follow up to 2 better games. If it released set in the Warcraft IP instead people would have liked it a lot more.
Good but not as good as it sequels, that you cant play it offline and the auction house are its 3 sins.
Loads of WoW players bought an action RPG expecting an MMO.
I mean D3 has its issues even as the type of game its supposed to be but the fact is most of those 10 million sales are from people that have never even played D1/2. Its this new generation of "gamers", the ones that don't actually play games but just sit on forums bitching about everything.
Good on Jay Wilson anyway, hes right, Bervik is just one man who has been riding on other peoples success just like fucking Bill Roper did. The fact is people like them have done fuck all since leaving Blizzard, while the actual talent has gone on to make even more successful games (Guild Wars, Torchlight etc).
Its amusing how these leeches always end up making these pointless interviews, suppose when you can't find people to all the hard work you've got to make do with the little fame you've got left.
I don't know the circumstances of Dave Brevik leaving Blizzard in 2005 but I will say, in the video, he was polite as can be while still being honest.
For the Blizzard team, specifically Jay Wilson, to react the way they did is a little disconcerting. I understand this can be a dog eat dog world - where everybody is vying for the best title and command over the best project - but its ridiculous not to respect the veterans of your position that paved the way for you to be at where you are.
BTW: nice little tidbit about the name of Diablo coming from Mt. Diablo - i've driven past that place multiple times while traveling through Northern California. (Bay Area woot woot)
Loads of Diablo players bought a down sized MMO expecting a true ARPG and a real Diablo game.
This is another example that the "everyone is expendable" doesn't always stick.
Most of all in creative positions cause not everyone has the same vision and everyone want's to add their own "mark" into a game they took over.
This however can be a HIT or a huge MISS and in this case it was more a miss.
When I saw the screenshots with some of the replies of Jay and some others I was ashamed to be a game designer (Independant developer) myself.
He was the game director of this game which means he represents the game and the business so showing such a immature behaviour over the net is definately out of place in my opinion. "Fuck this guy"? Really?
Hellgate might had its issues but honestly, I loved the atmosphere and the overall feeling it gave one when you were moving through the mists and encountered all this zombielike creatures.
Yes it wasn't totally polished but it was something they could had worked on and got rather destroyed by the contracts and paperwork behind it (server issues mostly aswell) than the game design itself.
As far as I know it's free to play and still hosted and active?
D3 which I didn't bought but know through my colleguae who did, was a "ok" game but the bottom line is, that it's only a shadow of the first two games and definately didn't live up to the expectations.
They should had rather added only new graphics and a few tweaks here and there instead of destroying a very entertaining title that held people on their screens for many years.
This is one of the most ignorant and baffling things i've read in awhile. They don't seem to realize that the only reason d3 sold so well is 100% a result of Diablo's 1 and 2 being the legends that they are and the prestigious status they gave Blizzard.
"The fastest selling PC game of all time" can be credited to David Brevik and the rest of Blizzard North. It has nothing to do with the current Blizzard team.
Talk about having 0 respect for the people that worked hard so you could have a cushy job where you just coast by on the backs of your predecessors that gave you legendary IP's like 'Diablo', 'Warcraft' and 'Starcraft' which automatically sell a gazillion copies regardless of the actual game you make. Must. Be. Nice.
I know man, that is the sad part for me, with so much less, Blizzard games used to do so much more with the story in the past. I'll admit that I was very late to the Diablo party and finished D2 only when I saw D3 announced, so for me, D2 was a game with extremely boring combat, lackluster locations, but story that I could watch and rewatch, enjoying it every time. D3, I cringe at the main story and wonder how could it be so meh while companions, crafters, even random townsfolk have so much more interesting stories than the main theme.
Like I said, I didn't play D1 and D2 when it was the new hotness, so I can look at D3 without the nostalgia geting in the way and I can tell you right here, D3 from a systems and gameplay point of view is by far the best game out of the three. Auction house, always online, story, art direction, all of those are either subjective or perception issues. I can't argue against personal opinion, but we should all be able to separate perception of an issue from how much fun I'm having clicking on things and watching stuff explode bloody gory pinata style.
Blizzard didn't fuck up, they just have the most demanding and self righteous player base out there.
Well i agree in SOME cases not all.Example Tanaka at Square Enix was the MAIn guy with smarts,without him i see a bunch of nonsense.
What i have seen with subsequent games is people become locked into their way of thinking,they are not able to expand.So they see Wow vanilla and think nothing should ever change,they see Diablo and think it should remain the same.I saw the same thing when EQ2 came out.all the EQ1 vets were crying.It is a debate on weather SWG NGE was an improvement or just more vanilla players whining over change.
What i saw just on these forums was a lot of fanbois that were waiting to buy Diablo no matter what game showed up.I think people should be MUCh more diligent in throwing money around,do more homework and make sure you are happy with your purchase.
When Starcraft anotehr Blizzard product was going into Beta people were spending retarded money for Beta keys on Ebay,it shows how careless peopel are in spending money and that the TEAM obviously had no bearing on these people what so ever.
Look no further than Wow ,that team has changed a ton from day 1,yet the game actually got MORE subs for quite some time after personelle changes.Heck Wow still has the largest number of subs and i bet MOSt of the orignal team is gone.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Exactly this. D4, if it ever gets made, is going to be a huge failure.
I think this gets glossed over a lot, but I'd say The Main Problem is the loot system. It's just terribly boring compared to D2, and it was a huge part of what made the game fun. I don't know if they intentionally gutted it for the AH, or they simply dropped the ball because they're clueless, but that major part of the IP just isn't there in D3, and the whole game is crap, because of it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
This
The loot system was designed to make money through the RMAH. All the crap about saving people from the evil's of the black market is spin doctoring plain and simple and if you believe that crap I gotta bridge I can sell you. It's there to make money plain and simple and it destroyed the heart and soul of the original games.
D3 would have been a much better game without the RMAH
They took it a step too far
Greed is destructive not constructive and it shows in D3.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
But this is Blizzard... No doubt, little or nothing will happen to them, and they will continue to ignore their community.
I would like to know the answer to this as wellThe above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
Ah, I see. So it's 'Blizzard South' that is responsible for what D3 is now. Shame someone else designed it instead of Brevik.
edit:another article on this
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Diablo-3-Jay-Wilson-Tells-Diablo-2-Designer-Fans-F-ck-Off-45895.html
Absolutely! Where's my thumbs up button! I love how you nailed that one on the head. They wouldn't HAVE jobs now if the real creative teams left them a legacy and they weren't the second choice for the new team after the REAL talent left to make better games (AHEM GW2, Rift, Torchlight 2).
Are you kidding me? D3 was HORRIBLE!
I dont consider myself apart of this "demanding, self righteous player base". But all Blizzard and Diablo fans wanted, was a logical extension to D2.
D3 is not the spiritual succeer to D2. D3 is specifically designed to make Blizzard lots of money through a treadmill grind Auction House. D3 has been ruined. Its just not fun. Its work. Once you hit Inferno, you need to buy expensive equipment to survive. And its just not fun.
Just take a look at the user reviews on Metacritic if you want to know whats wrong with D3.
D3 is a DISGRACE.
Who cares about writing in a Diablo game. It is all about killing stuff and getting loot.
I enjoyed it for what it was, I preferred deeper games. But there is no denying it was a blockbuster hit for its day and was the reason many people I knew, bought their first PC's
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I took a look at the various comments. They were unprofessional, childish, and incredibly arrogant.
I expect shots about hellgate from people on forums but professionals in the industry who have never laid large amounts of their own money on the line to produce a game should have a little more respect for what was wagered. Those punks have no idea what Morhaime does for them at Blizzard to give them the kind of money and time to polish a piece of crap like D3 and still make money off the good name of a game released a decade ago.
They jumped the shark a while ago, now you are seeing the hubris from fanboys as devs.