Originally posted by Soldor any idea what to do now with this blue screen? it's solid blue, comes up after the windows 7 loading screen. i was able to run my computer in safe mode just fine. no longer thinking this is a video card problem or even a hard drive (ssd) issue. maybe some type of corrupt windows 7 file?
When you run in safe mode, Win7 uses a standard MS VGA driver, not your vidio card driver. Try to boot using VGA mode as the option instead of safe mode. It will use the MS driver just like in safe mode. If it works, you will then have to load your card drivers. At least let me know what happens when you chose VGA mode.
Originally posted by Soldor i downloaded the latest driver update 12.8 and now i am getting a blue screen after the windows start up screen
After having read the thread I am quite sure that you do not have a hardware problem but a software one.
If you really are that desperate, simply reinstall the OS.
You can also download one of those bootable Linux CD, like some Ubuntu version. They can work with NTFS format, so you are going to be able to read the data on your hard drive, and they detect any external hard drive no problems, so you are gonna be able to copy any valuable data into it. You don't need to install anything, just put the CD on and go, asuming your computer BIOS is configured to have CD as first boot device, or at least before the hard drive. You probably know how to set your BIOS that way, but I ll be happy to explain you how to do so if you don't happen to know how to do it. Or any other forumite will do.
Just backup your important stuff and format the hell out of your computer. Nasty problem? Nasty solution. :P
I would backup your game client to a usb drive if you can before you reformat. But reinstalling OS is way to go...you might could just try a repair install. Just rewrites all the system files basically.
Originally posted by Soldor i downloaded the latest driver update 12.8 and now i am getting a blue screen after the windows start up screen
After having read the thread I am quite sure that you do not have a hardware problem but a software one.
If you really are that desperate, simply reinstall the OS.
You can also download one of those bootable Linux CD, like some Ubuntu version. They can work with NTFS format, so you are going to be able to read the data on your hard drive, and they detect any external hard drive no problems, so you are gonna be able to copy any valuable data into it. You don't need to install anything, just put the CD on and go, asuming your computer BIOS is configured to have CD as first boot device, or at least before the hard drive. You probably know how to set your BIOS that way, but I ll be happy to explain you how to do so if you don't happen to know how to do it. Or any other forumite will do.
Just backup your important stuff and format the hell out of your computer. Nasty problem? Nasty solution. :P
I had the exact same issue as the OP (well, not the red lines, but everything since that). It was my graphics card. This is why I suggested that he remove it and boot off the onboard GPU. if that works then it its a graphics card related issue. Either driver, hardware, or a loose connection from being shipped.
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I would definately enable the on-board video (first) and then pull the Radeon. See if it boots up. If everything goes fine, shut down, reinstall the 7870 (this shoud "fix" a poorly seated card), and disable the on-board VGA.
If you get the same issue, then I would guess that your Radeon bowed or something during a bounce while being shipped, dislodging the heat sink and causing it to overheat. Thats just a guess though.
If it was an SSD issue causing the driver to not load properly, Windows would fall back to the generic VGA driver and you'd get a new hardware detected pop up asking to install the new driver. A failing SSD wouldn't cause the bad video symptoms, it would simply lock up when it tried to access the bad portion of the "disk" and you'd be getting read error warnings.
edit Seeing now that you have a blue screen..that is a symptom of a poor electrical connection (among other things). Even a poorly connected parallel IDE cable will cause it. Definately go through and make sure everything is connected properly, especially the Radeon and all your power connections.
If that doesn't fix it, then boot into safe mode, uninstall the old radeon drivers, reboot and reinstall the driver.
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Originally posted by Soldor any idea what to do now with this blue screen? it's solid blue, comes up after the windows 7 loading screen. i was able to run my computer in safe mode just fine. no longer thinking this is a video card problem or even a hard drive (ssd) issue. maybe some type of corrupt windows 7 file?
You might be able to do a System Restore from safe mode or if you have the windows 7 OS DVD, following the boot repair instructions from microsoft will help with that.
Sounds like the blue screen comes up while drivers are being loaded so it is possible there is some corruption or a hardware conflict, did you add anything to it before booting it up or before shutting it down before moving it?
System Restore might be your best bet. If it boots up in safe mode, which doesn't load a good deal of drivers, then the odds are it is a driver issue, possibly an update was occurring when the computer was shut off.
Regardless, The repair featuers on the DVD can help restore those drivers, there are steps on Microsoft's website you can use to do so.
Originally posted by Soldor i downloaded the latest driver update 12.8 and now i am getting a blue screen after the windows start up screen
After having read the thread I am quite sure that you do not have a hardware problem but a software one.
If you really are that desperate, simply reinstall the OS.
You can also download one of those bootable Linux CD, like some Ubuntu version. They can work with NTFS format, so you are going to be able to read the data on your hard drive, and they detect any external hard drive no problems, so you are gonna be able to copy any valuable data into it. You don't need to install anything, just put the CD on and go, asuming your computer BIOS is configured to have CD as first boot device, or at least before the hard drive. You probably know how to set your BIOS that way, but I ll be happy to explain you how to do so if you don't happen to know how to do it. Or any other forumite will do.
Just backup your important stuff and format the hell out of your computer. Nasty problem? Nasty solution. :P
I had the exact same issue as the OP (well, not the red lines, but everything since that). It was my graphics card. This is why I suggested that he remove it and boot off the onboard GPU. if that works then it its a graphics card related issue. Either driver, hardware, or a loose connection from being shipped.
I so, just run the uninstaller for your grafics driver and related software.
Go to the mfg website and download the latest driver install and re run that.
If there was a problem with the card either damaged or not properly seated, when you powered on, you'd hear an unusual beep pattern. of a long beep and 2 short beeps.
Were the video settings ever overclocked? That's kinda what it sounds like TBH
Removing wires from within computer and plugging them back in.
Removed the video card completely and plugged it back in.
I plugged the dvi cord from monitor into the motherboard's integrated graphics. that worked the first time. was able to load up windows and run it normally. now when i go back to the same integrated graphics its not loading up properly.
i ran in safe mode was able to get on ok went to the web downloaded latest amd drivers that didnt do anything.
when i plug monitor into the video card's dvi or hdmi connector i am getting these errors: white screen, blue screen, and freezes on the windows 7 loading and gives me a black screen.
when i was on the integrated graphics i was able to check my control panel and the radeon 7870 is detected and there doesnt appear to be any issues.
Originally posted by Soldor What I have tried so far:
Removing wires from within computer and plugging them back in.
Removed the video card completely and plugged it back in.
I plugged the dvi cord from monitor into the motherboard's integrated graphics. that worked the first time. was able to load up windows and run it normally. now when i go back to the same integrated graphics its not loading up properly.
i ran in safe mode was able to get on ok went to the web downloaded latest amd drivers that didnt do anything.
when i plug monitor into the video card's dvi or hdmi connector i am getting these errors: white screen, blue screen, and freezes on the windows 7 loading and gives me a black screen.
when i was on the integrated graphics i was able to check my control panel and the radeon 7870 is detected and there doesnt appear to be any issues.
Do you have any 3rd party software and is your catalyst settings on default (Make sure you aren't overclocked)
Make sure all settings are default. Uninstall EVERYTHING video related that isn't Catalyst
Removing wires from within computer and plugging them back in.
Removed the video card completely and plugged it back in.
I plugged the dvi cord from monitor into the motherboard's integrated graphics. that worked the first time. was able to load up windows and run it normally. now when i go back to the same integrated graphics its not loading up properly.
i ran in safe mode was able to get on ok went to the web downloaded latest amd drivers that didnt do anything.
when i plug monitor into the video card's dvi or hdmi connector i am getting these errors: white screen, blue screen, and freezes on the windows 7 loading and gives me a black screen.
when i was on the integrated graphics i was able to check my control panel and the radeon 7870 is detected and there doesnt appear to be any issues.
Boot up in safe mode, uninstall your video card drivers from the device manager, and then re-install the latest ones.
Removing wires from within computer and plugging them back in.
Removed the video card completely and plugged it back in.
I plugged the dvi cord from monitor into the motherboard's integrated graphics. that worked the first time. was able to load up windows and run it normally. now when i go back to the same integrated graphics its not loading up properly.
i ran in safe mode was able to get on ok went to the web downloaded latest amd drivers that didnt do anything.
when i plug monitor into the video card's dvi or hdmi connector i am getting these errors: white screen, blue screen, and freezes on the windows 7 loading and gives me a black screen.
when i was on the integrated graphics i was able to check my control panel and the radeon 7870 is detected and there doesnt appear to be any issues.
I am curious... you say that when you are on integrated graphics you were able to check your control panel and the 7870 is detected?!?
If it is detecting it, that means it is connected. Remove the card completely and leave it out.. See if the computer boots properly.
Trust me, this sounds VERY much like what I went through and it was a video card issue. Remove it from the equation. Totally take it out and boot up.
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Originally posted by Morv Originally posted by SoldorWhat I have tried so far:Removing wires from within computer and plugging them back in.Removed the video card completely and plugged it back in.I plugged the dvi cord from monitor into the motherboard's integrated graphics. that worked the first time. was able to load up windows and run it normally. now when i go back to the same integrated graphics its not loading up properly.i ran in safe mode was able to get on ok went to the web downloaded latest amd drivers that didnt do anything.when i plug monitor into the video card's dvi or hdmi connector i am getting these errors: white screen, blue screen, and freezes on the windows 7 loading and gives me a black screen.when i was on the integrated graphics i was able to check my control panel and the radeon 7870 is detected and there doesnt appear to be any issues.
Boot up in safe mode, uninstall your video card drivers from the device manager, and then re-install the latest ones.
I've had plenty of experience building PCs, one thing I never did come across was a MoBo with Integrated video. Is there a setting where you might have to turn it off? Is there a possibility it's in conflict with your Radeon? Did it some how accidentally get activated?
This may sound silly, but this can cause alot of issues. Have you tried reseating your RAM. Ram thats not making proper contact, can cause all sorts of really strange issues. Not being able to adress certain parts of the RAM tends to give windows hell.
After that I'd try moving your hard drive from whatever sata port it's on to the sata 1 port. Some motherboards are very specific when it comes to the sata bus.
Reseat your processor. This sounds like the least appealing step, and trust me it is, but its necessary. If you do those things and you still have the issue...then try taking off your board, and making sure you have all of the stand-offs in place, then re mount it.
On the note of your video card; if you have an old card (PCI-E) laying around grab it and test it with the system. Don't really have to install its proper drivers from AMD/Nvidia, but it will let you know if the issue lies with the graphics. Most common problem I've seen is bad video memory. Honestly...it just goes bad after a while. Second most common..bad Motherboard...third is bad RAM. The least likely is bad CPU. They almost never go bad. Unless you bend pins.
Which I should've mentioned. When you remove your CPU check for bent pins. If you've got bent pins the processor is prety much junk and will serve as a great paper weight. I'm not sure if AMD warranties bent pins. I know most motherboard manufacturers don't so If you bend pins on the Mobo somewhere...youre screwed
A misconfigured BIOS can cause the problems that you describe. The fix can be simple if it is the BIOS settings and you know how to get into the BIOS when you start your computer. You would just need to set the BIOS settings to use the "performance default" or something similar and then save those settings before you exit the BIOS. I built a computer where it would consistently shut down after about 5 min because the BIOS wasn't set correctly. I was unable change the BIOS settings which led me to discover that the jumper was missing on the BIOS reset pins on my motherboard.
OH i just read one of your comments from before. WHAT IS THE CHIPSET FOR THE ONBOARD VIDEO!!! FIND OUT! If it's an Nvidia chipset....that's likely your issue. you just need to uninstall It's drivers and your Amd drivers (uninstall AMD ones first) then reinstall the AMD drivers after you have both sets removed.
Originally posted by SoldorWhat I have tried so far:Removing wires from within computer and plugging them back in.Removed the video card completely and plugged it back in.I plugged the dvi cord from monitor into the motherboard's integrated graphics. that worked the first time. was able to load up windows and run it normally. now when i go back to the same integrated graphics its not loading up properly.i ran in safe mode was able to get on ok went to the web downloaded latest amd drivers that didnt do anything.when i plug monitor into the video card's dvi or hdmi connector i am getting these errors: white screen, blue screen, and freezes on the windows 7 loading and gives me a black screen.when i was on the integrated graphics i was able to check my control panel and the radeon 7870 is detected and there doesnt appear to be any issues.
Boot up in safe mode, uninstall your video card drivers from the device manager, and then re-install the latest ones.
I've had plenty of experience building PCs, one thing I never did come across was a MoBo with Integrated video. Is there a setting where you might have to turn it off? Is there a possibility it's in conflict with your Radeon? Did it some how accidentally get activated?
I have the same MB he does.. it comes with Lucid Virtu MVP which is a pretty neat feature. It will control both the integrated GPU and your videocard to deliver the best solution for what you are doing. It can't hurt to turn it off but I tend to think the issue here is the VC itself as the system was working fine until he have the PC shipped. Something is lose or damaged. That is my best bet.
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Originally posted by SoldorWhat I have tried so far:Removing wires from within computer and plugging them back in.Removed the video card completely and plugged it back in.I plugged the dvi cord from monitor into the motherboard's integrated graphics. that worked the first time. was able to load up windows and run it normally. now when i go back to the same integrated graphics its not loading up properly.i ran in safe mode was able to get on ok went to the web downloaded latest amd drivers that didnt do anything.when i plug monitor into the video card's dvi or hdmi connector i am getting these errors: white screen, blue screen, and freezes on the windows 7 loading and gives me a black screen.when i was on the integrated graphics i was able to check my control panel and the radeon 7870 is detected and there doesnt appear to be any issues.
Boot up in safe mode, uninstall your video card drivers from the device manager, and then re-install the latest ones.
I've had plenty of experience building PCs, one thing I never did come across was a MoBo with Integrated video. Is there a setting where you might have to turn it off? Is there a possibility it's in conflict with your Radeon? Did it some how accidentally get activated?
Yes there is. The onboard graphics must be disabled in bios if a 3rd party video card is being used or the two will conflict with each other, same thing with soundcards and onboard audio. However, the symptoms described here sound like the video card itself is faulty.
OP you said that you can use the PC normally with the onboard graphics? Remove the video card completely and fire up the PC using the onboard. The PC should install the relevent default driver on startup. Let it finish this, then go into control panel and uninstall all the drivers that pertain to the removed card. Restart the machine. Try various things with the PC; surf the net, play a game etc. and if all works ok then the card itself is fubar I'm afraid. If you have similar problems with the onboard let us know.
i tihink i am going to throw in the towel on this one. its been 3 hours have done everything thats been said here and basically i am coming to the conclusion that something happened to the video card while shipping. everything was working great til i shipped it
Yes there is. The onboard graphics must be disabled in bios if a 3rd party video card is being used or the two will conflict with each other, same thing with soundcards and onboard audio.
That's not entirely true. You don't HAVE to disable it in the bios, though it does help to on certain motherboards. Especially some of the older republic of gamer boards. Most of the new ROG boards don't have onboard video. And If it's a driver issue like I had mentioned before (both Nvidia and AMD drivers installed) then simply disabling the onboard won't help as the driver service still runs on boot.
i tihink i am going to throw in the towel on this one. its been 3 hours have done everything thats been said here and basically i am coming to the conclusion that something happened to the video card while shipping. everything was working great til i shipped it
Yes there is. The onboard graphics must be disabled in bios if a 3rd party video card is being used or the two will conflict with each other, same thing with soundcards and onboard audio.
That's not entirely true. You don't HAVE to disable it in the bios, though it does help to on certain motherboards. Especially some of the older republic of gamer boards. Most of the new ROG boards don't have onboard video. And If it's a driver issue like I had mentioned before (both Nvidia and AMD drivers installed) then simply disabling the onboard won't help as the driver service still runs on boot.
If the board has a system for running them both together then thats fine usually but not many boards have that. With both enabled on a board without that function various conflicts will result. As I said though it sounds more like a bad card.
2. re-seat all of the hardware. remove the card, and put it back in. remove the ram and put it back in. check the hard drive connections .. just check all of the connections, internal and external. (dont re-seat the processor (or at least wait till someone smarter than me tells you to re-seat the processor))
^^^^This. Make sure to unplug your PC first though and be careful of static discharge. There is a good chance the video card or even some ram came lose during shipping.
i tihink i am going to throw in the towel on this one. its been 3 hours have done everything thats been said here and basically i am coming to the conclusion that something happened to the video card while shipping. everything was working great til i shipped it
Not sure if you are ignoring this or not...
Pull the Video Card out.. leave it out.
If the PC boots normally then just play on the integrated graphics while your RMA the card.
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Comments
When you run in safe mode, Win7 uses a standard MS VGA driver, not your vidio card driver. Try to boot using VGA mode as the option instead of safe mode. It will use the MS driver just like in safe mode. If it works, you will then have to load your card drivers. At least let me know what happens when you chose VGA mode.
I would backup your game client to a usb drive if you can before you reformat. But reinstalling OS is way to go...you might could just try a repair install. Just rewrites all the system files basically.
I had the exact same issue as the OP (well, not the red lines, but everything since that). It was my graphics card. This is why I suggested that he remove it and boot off the onboard GPU. if that works then it its a graphics card related issue. Either driver, hardware, or a loose connection from being shipped.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
My first guess would be the video card.
I would definately enable the on-board video (first) and then pull the Radeon. See if it boots up. If everything goes fine, shut down, reinstall the 7870 (this shoud "fix" a poorly seated card), and disable the on-board VGA.
If you get the same issue, then I would guess that your Radeon bowed or something during a bounce while being shipped, dislodging the heat sink and causing it to overheat. Thats just a guess though.
If it was an SSD issue causing the driver to not load properly, Windows would fall back to the generic VGA driver and you'd get a new hardware detected pop up asking to install the new driver. A failing SSD wouldn't cause the bad video symptoms, it would simply lock up when it tried to access the bad portion of the "disk" and you'd be getting read error warnings.
edit Seeing now that you have a blue screen..that is a symptom of a poor electrical connection (among other things). Even a poorly connected parallel IDE cable will cause it. Definately go through and make sure everything is connected properly, especially the Radeon and all your power connections.
If that doesn't fix it, then boot into safe mode, uninstall the old radeon drivers, reboot and reinstall the driver.
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You might be able to do a System Restore from safe mode or if you have the windows 7 OS DVD, following the boot repair instructions from microsoft will help with that.
Sounds like the blue screen comes up while drivers are being loaded so it is possible there is some corruption or a hardware conflict, did you add anything to it before booting it up or before shutting it down before moving it?System Restore might be your best bet. If it boots up in safe mode, which doesn't load a good deal of drivers, then the odds are it is a driver issue, possibly an update was occurring when the computer was shut off.
Regardless, The repair featuers on the DVD can help restore those drivers, there are steps on Microsoft's website you can use to do so.
Definitely worth trying imho.
If I have read correctly, it boots in safe mode?
I so, just run the uninstaller for your grafics driver and related software.
Go to the mfg website and download the latest driver install and re run that.
If there was a problem with the card either damaged or not properly seated, when you powered on, you'd hear an unusual beep pattern. of a long beep and 2 short beeps.
Were the video settings ever overclocked? That's kinda what it sounds like TBH
What I have tried so far:
Removing wires from within computer and plugging them back in.
Removed the video card completely and plugged it back in.
I plugged the dvi cord from monitor into the motherboard's integrated graphics. that worked the first time. was able to load up windows and run it normally. now when i go back to the same integrated graphics its not loading up properly.
i ran in safe mode was able to get on ok went to the web downloaded latest amd drivers that didnt do anything.
when i plug monitor into the video card's dvi or hdmi connector i am getting these errors: white screen, blue screen, and freezes on the windows 7 loading and gives me a black screen.
when i was on the integrated graphics i was able to check my control panel and the radeon 7870 is detected and there doesnt appear to be any issues.
Do you have any 3rd party software and is your catalyst settings on default (Make sure you aren't overclocked)
Make sure all settings are default. Uninstall EVERYTHING video related that isn't Catalyst
Boot up in safe mode, uninstall your video card drivers from the device manager, and then re-install the latest ones.
I am curious... you say that when you are on integrated graphics you were able to check your control panel and the 7870 is detected?!?
If it is detecting it, that means it is connected. Remove the card completely and leave it out.. See if the computer boots properly.
Trust me, this sounds VERY much like what I went through and it was a video card issue. Remove it from the equation. Totally take it out and boot up.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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The point is keep it in perspective...With that being said
/ignore!
I've had plenty of experience building PCs, one thing I never did come across was a MoBo with Integrated video. Is there a setting where you might have to turn it off? Is there a possibility it's in conflict with your Radeon? Did it some how accidentally get activated?
This may sound silly, but this can cause alot of issues. Have you tried reseating your RAM. Ram thats not making proper contact, can cause all sorts of really strange issues. Not being able to adress certain parts of the RAM tends to give windows hell.
After that I'd try moving your hard drive from whatever sata port it's on to the sata 1 port. Some motherboards are very specific when it comes to the sata bus.
Reseat your processor. This sounds like the least appealing step, and trust me it is, but its necessary. If you do those things and you still have the issue...then try taking off your board, and making sure you have all of the stand-offs in place, then re mount it.
On the note of your video card; if you have an old card (PCI-E) laying around grab it and test it with the system. Don't really have to install its proper drivers from AMD/Nvidia, but it will let you know if the issue lies with the graphics. Most common problem I've seen is bad video memory. Honestly...it just goes bad after a while. Second most common..bad Motherboard...third is bad RAM. The least likely is bad CPU. They almost never go bad. Unless you bend pins.
Which I should've mentioned. When you remove your CPU check for bent pins. If you've got bent pins the processor is prety much junk and will serve as a great paper weight. I'm not sure if AMD warranties bent pins. I know most motherboard manufacturers don't so If you bend pins on the Mobo somewhere...youre screwed
about all I can think of.
I have the same MB he does.. it comes with Lucid Virtu MVP which is a pretty neat feature. It will control both the integrated GPU and your videocard to deliver the best solution for what you are doing. It can't hurt to turn it off but I tend to think the issue here is the VC itself as the system was working fine until he have the PC shipped. Something is lose or damaged. That is my best bet.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes there is. The onboard graphics must be disabled in bios if a 3rd party video card is being used or the two will conflict with each other, same thing with soundcards and onboard audio. However, the symptoms described here sound like the video card itself is faulty.
OP you said that you can use the PC normally with the onboard graphics? Remove the video card completely and fire up the PC using the onboard. The PC should install the relevent default driver on startup. Let it finish this, then go into control panel and uninstall all the drivers that pertain to the removed card. Restart the machine. Try various things with the PC; surf the net, play a game etc. and if all works ok then the card itself is fubar I'm afraid. If you have similar problems with the onboard let us know.
hey all thanks for all your continued help.
i tihink i am going to throw in the towel on this one. its been 3 hours have done everything thats been said here and basically i am coming to the conclusion that something happened to the video card while shipping. everything was working great til i shipped it
That's not entirely true. You don't HAVE to disable it in the bios, though it does help to on certain motherboards. Especially some of the older republic of gamer boards. Most of the new ROG boards don't have onboard video. And If it's a driver issue like I had mentioned before (both Nvidia and AMD drivers installed) then simply disabling the onboard won't help as the driver service still runs on boot.
Did you try the driver thing?
If the board has a system for running them both together then thats fine usually but not many boards have that. With both enabled on a board without that function various conflicts will result. As I said though it sounds more like a bad card.
^^^^This. Make sure to unplug your PC first though and be careful of static discharge. There is a good chance the video card or even some ram came lose during shipping.
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Not sure if you are ignoring this or not...
Pull the Video Card out.. leave it out.
If the PC boots normally then just play on the integrated graphics while your RMA the card.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018