The PvE reminds me of FF in that you get pushed into DEs and follow the story as you can, the DEs sort of automate the world grouping and make it very easy to play.
Originally posted by Vhaln We progress, certainly, but maybe it could do a better job of showing the player what they have to look forward to?
Why would you need that ? Plus, it's already showing what to look forward to with personal story waypoints, as they bring you over most important points of interest in different leveling zones.
But why would anyone need a game to command him about what to do and what not ?
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
It's the "aimless" nature of not knowing where to go for progress that irks me. No, the Hearts aren't enough -as they generally give limited XP for the time investment required.
hmmm, completing a Heart, or a Dynamic event, on "Gold", always filled my XP bar for at least 1/5th
Plus, when you complete some dynamic events (like escorting a caravan, etc), they often turn the NPC you had to escort / protect into a new vendor, which sells +10% XP boost items.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Originally posted by Vhaln We progress, certainly, but maybe it could do a better job of showing the player what they have to look forward to?
Why would you need that ? Plus, it's already showing what to look forward to with personal story waypoints, as they bring you over most important points of interest in different leveling zones.
But why would anyone need a game to command him about what to do and what not ?
You're confusing a clear direction with a command. I want to know what I can choose from, not what I should choose.
It's the "aimless" nature of not knowing where to go for progress that irks me. No, the Hearts aren't enough -as they generally give limited XP for the time investment required.
hmmm, completing a Heart, or a Dynamic event, on "Gold", always filled my XP bar for at least 1/5th
Well, I complete all hearts as soon as I can (it's one of the few clear things to go for) - and yet I'm below level for many of them. They certainly don't provide enough without Dynamic Events to support them.
Again, I just want a better "event overview" and better story delivery - assuming there really IS a good story behind all the events.
Originally posted by Vhaln We progress, certainly, but maybe it could do a better job of showing the player what they have to look forward to?
Why would you need that ? Plus, it's already showing what to look forward to with personal story waypoints, as they bring you over most important points of interest in different leveling zones.
But why would anyone need a game to command him about what to do and what not ?
You're confusing a clear direction with a command. I want to know what I can choose from, not what I should choose.
Hey I just remembered : there are those DEs map overview you were asking for : "long view" NPCs.
There at least 4 per zone, and they'll tell you the story of the zone, plus a map checklist of all the main DEs and hearts around.
You don't even have to search for them, as they're posted near main hubs, and already displayed on the map.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
What about jumping into the pvp side of things? I have not done so myself but is it not balanced for anyone to do? Wish you liked the game more. This is the most fun since I played Kunark. Hope you find something that makes you happy
Originally posted by Vhaln We progress, certainly, but maybe it could do a better job of showing the player what they have to look forward to?
Why would you need that ? Plus, it's already showing what to look forward to with personal story waypoints, as they bring you over most important points of interest in different leveling zones.
But why would anyone need a game to command him about what to do and what not ?
You're confusing a clear direction with a command. I want to know what I can choose from, not what I should choose.
Hey I just remembered : there are those DEs map overview you were asking for : "long view" NPCs.
There at least 4 per zone, and they'll tell you the story of the zone, plus a map checklist of all the main DEs and hearts around.
You don't even have to search for them, as they're posted near main hubs, and already displayed on the map.
Seriously? That sounds great. Wonder why I haven't seen any NPC pointing out events... Hmm...
I'm loving my time in game, but I agree that there's a lack of direction or purpose. Basically their buzzword "fun" is all the game is about. I'm having fun now, but if that subsides nothing will keep me playing the game. Take it for what it is, is my advice. Have fun. When you don't just log off and move on to the next game. This is the single player game of MMOs. If it was both this fun AND had direction, purpose and longevity it would be the perfect game for me.
Originally posted by funyahns What about jumping into the pvp side of things? I have not done so myself but is it not balanced for anyone to do? Wish you liked the game more. This is the most fun since I played Kunark. Hope you find something that makes you happy
Problem with sPvP is that you don't level up doing it. So you effectively put your character "on hold" when you play PvP. Also, I generally prefer unpredictable open world PvP to these "sportsgames" in small instances.
I've tried WvW - and it just seems like a HUUUUUGE map with a lot of zergfights going on. I can't scout with my Thief or infiltrate anything - because there's no meaningful stealth.
I can't really do anything on my own - and since I'm mostly playing solo, it's kinda hard.
I'm not good at following the crowd - I like to do my own thing in my own way.
Originally posted by Vhaln We progress, certainly, but maybe it could do a better job of showing the player what they have to look forward to?
Why would you need that ? Plus, it's already showing what to look forward to with personal story waypoints, as they bring you over most important points of interest in different leveling zones.
But why would anyone need a game to command him about what to do and what not ?
I don't need it - I'm enjoying GW2 plenty. Doesn't mean it's perfect though, and I'm the kind of person who likes to think about how things could be better.
Also, not saying I want to be commanded to do anything. I hate when direction is too concrete. but, the game does feel like it goes a bit too far in the opposite direction, expecting players to just run around, without giving them much reason to be doing it.
Offering reasons for doing things doesn't mean forcing it on the player in any way. Maybe it's more about outlining choices a bit better, mainly at low levels. I'm not really sure. As a brand new player to the game, I can just see that there is an issue here, and I think it might be an issue that will be pretty common in the coming weeks.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
It's the "aimless" nature of not knowing where to go for progress that irks me. No, the Hearts aren't enough -as they generally give limited XP for the time investment required.
hmmm, completing a Heart, or a Dynamic event, on "Gold", always filled my XP bar for at least 1/5th
Well, I complete all hearts as soon as I can (it's one of the few clear things to go for) - and yet I'm below level for many of them. They certainly don't provide enough without Dynamic Events to support them.
Again, I just want a better "event overview" and better story delivery - assuming there really IS a good story behind all the events.
The log puts the events and history in narrative form for you. The actions and ongoing story of the NPCs play out on the server in front of you.
Reading your OP and many of your responses such as the one quoted above, it seems that (despite your insistance to the contrary) you are looking for a tale told in a quest box followed by an arrow to the next quest NPC, and not actually any engaging story arc or compelling reason within the game world.
Can you give an example of an MMO that has what you are looking for?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Vhaln I don't think it's just about handholding - but more a lack of carrot dangling. The game doesn't really give the player much to aim for, in terms of rewards. We progress, certainly, but maybe it could do a better job of showing the player what they have to look forward to?
Indeed, I'm one of those who after a couple of days playing GW2 now just struggle to motivate myself. I'm not really sure why either. It may just be that the game isn't for me, but like the OP I enjoy having a sense of direction and challenge that I have yet to find in GW2. Direction has nothing to do with hand holding or being more like WoW like some think, but more about my ability as a player to look at the game and set myself personal goals both of the short and long term. In that regard GW2 really just feels a little more aimless and samey, and exploration is really only fun the first time around.
Know that this is my personal experience so far, and I'm not bashing the game, just saying that there are more people like the OP who have different opinions. It's great to hear that a lot of you enjoy it, and I'll try to keep at it a bit more myself. But in the end it seems to not have quite enough substance going on for my personal taste.
It's the "aimless" nature of not knowing where to go for progress that irks me. No, the Hearts aren't enough -as they generally give limited XP for the time investment required.
hmmm, completing a Heart, or a Dynamic event, on "Gold", always filled my XP bar for at least 1/5th
Well, I complete all hearts as soon as I can (it's one of the few clear things to go for) - and yet I'm below level for many of them. They certainly don't provide enough without Dynamic Events to support them.
Again, I just want a better "event overview" and better story delivery - assuming there really IS a good story behind all the events.
The log puts the events and history in narrative form for you. The actions and ongoing story of the NPCs play out on the server in front of you.
Reading your OP and many of your responses such as the one quoted above, it seems that (despite your insistance to the contrary) you are looking for a tale told in a quest box followed by an arrow to the next quest NPC, and not actually any engaging story arc or compelling reason within the game world.
Can you give an example of an MMO that has what you are looking for?
How many times must I say that I LIKE the dynamic events - but I would LIKE them to be presented in a clearer fashion. I don't like the AIMLESS nature of having to find them myself.
It doesn't mean I like boring "text boxes" - though I'm sure pretending that's what I'm after makes it easier to imagine my position.
There is no current MMO that gets everything right, and there never will be.
As for MMOs that provide a clearer direction - we don't need to look far. For something similar to DEs - we can look at Rift, because it was VERY clear about where rifts appeared and when there was a dynamic event going on. But Rift is boring and the world is tiny.
The best story-driven MMO is definitely TSW - but TSW lacks a meaningful endgame - and the PvP sucks. Also, I think the combat system is lacking - and the gear is boring.
I'm trying to be fair about it - and I will add that I think the game is beautiful. Combat is fast, visceral and FUN. The main cities (especially Divinity's Reach) are among the most spectacular I've ever seen. There's a TON of love poured into this game. This isn't some half-assed design by a bunch of weak developers trying to cash-in. This is a labor of love, clearly.
Sadly, I don't think they wanted someone like me to enjoy it.
Ok, so I'm past the whole "no power progression at 80" thing. I know this game won't have it - and I know I'm probably not going to have GW2 as a long-term home. That's ok, and it was a small investment.
But, I'm trying to enjoy my time levelling in the game - and it's not always easy.
I have no idea why I'm doing what I'm doing. The dynamic events are fun - but I don't know why they happen or why I'm helping. Sure, the "Centaurs are attacking" - but there are no people to relate to or to feel compelled to help.
I run around in that gorgeous world trying to find something to do, and it's not hard to find. But I stumble upon it at random without direction or any long-term purpose.
So... I just need to "have fun" - right?
Problem with me is that I need direction and I need purpose. I fully understand that people who DON'T need that will likely love GW2. It's the perfect game for people who just like to play around without thinking about why. My ex-GF was exactly like that in WoW - and she could spend hours doing things that basically had no meaning beyond entertaining her, and that's great.
I'm just trying to make sure it's not me misunderstanding something about the game.
Is it SUPPOSED to be aimless and about "fun" without purpose?
Do you bother listening to what the NPC's are saying before, during, and after an event? I'm guessing not if you think they dont tell you why you are doing what you are doing. Unless you are just completely 100% unlucky and always get to an event in progress. Each individual event and even parts of a chain in an event give alittle story on why you are doing what you are doing. Even if its something as simple as "I need to get beer to the inn up north and need bodyguards". Its still a reason. The large zone events have a ton of story to them if you havent run into one yet.
As far as needing your hand held to tell you where to go quest at and when. No, it really do that. And no, I'm not saying it in a crappy way though I'm sure it will come across like that. The game simply wont hold your hand is all I'm saying.
I think from what I saw in the beta the game has just as much direction as any other mmo out there . I do think theres a culture of rush to the endgame these days and not so much emphasis on enjoying the leveling experiance which is a shame .
The game has direction, but it is a themepark and there isn't a huge ammount of depth to it. If a game utilises public questing as GW2 does then it has to be simple enough to be understood by the mob of joe and jane casual mmo player.
As for MMOs that provide a clearer direction - we don't need to look far. For something similar to DEs - we can look at Rift, because it was VERY clear about where rifts appeared and when there was a dynamic event going on. But Rift is boring and the world is tiny.
- events appear in the minimap and world map
- event information displays in quest panel on the right
- log contains narrative about the event
- NPCs tell thw story of what is going on through dynamic in-game actions
- NPCs share with you dialogue about the event before and after the event
The first two apply to Rifts. The whole list applies to GW2 DEs. I'm wondering if your problem is with Guild Wars 2 dynamic events or just that you are looking for something that simply doesn't exist in any game. Either that or you simple DO want hand-holding but have a problem admitting that to yourself so you are looking for why it's the game's fault. I'm not quite sure it is that last one, but I'm definitely not taking it off the table at this point.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't agree with OP. There are NPCs that will explain you in general what's going on in each area (game will show you the map with different locations (hearts) and the NPC will tell you the purpose (these NPCS are marked on the map with the binocular icon)). Something very important: the game won't wait for you. ANet said this very clearly. What this means is that you may go to an area where bandits and running away from players, back to their hideout. This is because the first stage of the event was already triggered. However, these events reset again. Some NPCs will come to you or call you. Talking to NPCs is a good idea, you may trigger an event.
If you are in the human area, NPCs will tell you about centaurs, bandits, etc. The centaurs appear to be a common threat around the human lands. You will be doing small errands, if you care to talk to NPCs. If you don't, then you can help them anyway. It is up to the player to help the NPCs, but the game won't wait for anyone.
This is the second time I've tried to make a reply to this topic but I don't know how to respond. It makes me both laugh and cringe inside to know that people need direction in a game to call it fun.
If you read the scouts they tell you what is happening in the map and why it is happening, take a second out of trying to level and just read what the game is offering you lore wise because to be honest it makes you understand why you are doing what you are doing. Yes, there is no great wall of text to tell you every aspect of the map but it defiantly gives you a basic understanding.
Other than that I don't know how to answer. The Dynamic Events to me make sense as they are usually logically steps from what enemies you usually fight within the heart events.
There is plenty of direction you just need to look for it.
you have to create a backstory as to "why" you would be compelled to help out and do these things.
Someone has probably already said this but in typical mmo questing, someone says "go kill x and bring me y".
In Guild Wars you see the problem as to why you need to kill x and you make the decision to "kill x" because your character would do it. Or, you make the decision not to kill x and you don't.
So, one of the first things you get to do in GW 2 is to help a farmer who is besieged by underground dragon wyrms (or whatever they are called) and you can water the cows and kill bandits on his farm and put out fires.
I always helped with the bandits and killed the wyrms and sometimes put out the fires but never watered the cows.
Because I don't water cows.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
As for MMOs that provide a clearer direction - we don't need to look far. For something similar to DEs - we can look at Rift, because it was VERY clear about where rifts appeared and when there was a dynamic event going on. But Rift is boring and the world is tiny.
- events appear in the minimap and world map
- event information displays in quest panel on the right
- log contains narrative about the event
- NPCs tell thw story of what is going on through dynamic in-game actions
- NPCs share with you dialogue about the event before and after the event
The first two apply to Rifts. The whole list applies to GW2 DEs. I'm wondering if your problem is with Guild Wars 2 dynamic events or just that you are looking for something that simply doesn't exist in any game. Either that or you simple DO want hand-holding but have a problem admitting that to yourself so you are looking for why it's the game's fault. I'm not quite sure it is that last one, but I'm definitely not taking it off the table at this point.
None of the above apply to GW2 when you're not in the vicinity of the events.
Rift doesn't require you to be in the vicinity.
That was my point - and it's not about Rift being the better game overall, because I don't like Rift.
I have to disagree. To me the world feels so alive, and the NPCs have a lot of character (especially the Skritt). When exploring, there are so many people to talk to. But what ArenaNet did, they made it all optional. NPCs just talk with chat bubbles while you can run around and don't HAVE to wait if you don't want to.
Especially coming from GW1, ArenaNet put so much detail in this game. The lore is so rich in this game, but it is all optional. Anyway, i'm back to Tyria. See you around! (Far Shiverpeaks)
Comments
Why would you need that ? Plus, it's already showing what to look forward to with personal story waypoints, as they bring you over most important points of interest in different leveling zones.
But why would anyone need a game to command him about what to do and what not ?
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
hmmm, completing a Heart, or a Dynamic event, on "Gold", always filled my XP bar for at least 1/5th
Plus, when you complete some dynamic events (like escorting a caravan, etc), they often turn the NPC you had to escort / protect into a new vendor, which sells +10% XP boost items.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
You're confusing a clear direction with a command. I want to know what I can choose from, not what I should choose.
Well, I complete all hearts as soon as I can (it's one of the few clear things to go for) - and yet I'm below level for many of them. They certainly don't provide enough without Dynamic Events to support them.
Again, I just want a better "event overview" and better story delivery - assuming there really IS a good story behind all the events.
Hey I just remembered : there are those DEs map overview you were asking for : "long view" NPCs.
There at least 4 per zone, and they'll tell you the story of the zone, plus a map checklist of all the main DEs and hearts around.
You don't even have to search for them, as they're posted near main hubs, and already displayed on the map.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Seriously? That sounds great. Wonder why I haven't seen any NPC pointing out events... Hmm...
Problem with sPvP is that you don't level up doing it. So you effectively put your character "on hold" when you play PvP. Also, I generally prefer unpredictable open world PvP to these "sportsgames" in small instances.
I've tried WvW - and it just seems like a HUUUUUGE map with a lot of zergfights going on. I can't scout with my Thief or infiltrate anything - because there's no meaningful stealth.
I can't really do anything on my own - and since I'm mostly playing solo, it's kinda hard.
I'm not good at following the crowd - I like to do my own thing in my own way.
I don't need it - I'm enjoying GW2 plenty. Doesn't mean it's perfect though, and I'm the kind of person who likes to think about how things could be better.
Also, not saying I want to be commanded to do anything. I hate when direction is too concrete. but, the game does feel like it goes a bit too far in the opposite direction, expecting players to just run around, without giving them much reason to be doing it.
Offering reasons for doing things doesn't mean forcing it on the player in any way. Maybe it's more about outlining choices a bit better, mainly at low levels. I'm not really sure. As a brand new player to the game, I can just see that there is an issue here, and I think it might be an issue that will be pretty common in the coming weeks.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
The log puts the events and history in narrative form for you. The actions and ongoing story of the NPCs play out on the server in front of you.
Reading your OP and many of your responses such as the one quoted above, it seems that (despite your insistance to the contrary) you are looking for a tale told in a quest box followed by an arrow to the next quest NPC, and not actually any engaging story arc or compelling reason within the game world.
Can you give an example of an MMO that has what you are looking for?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Indeed, I'm one of those who after a couple of days playing GW2 now just struggle to motivate myself. I'm not really sure why either. It may just be that the game isn't for me, but like the OP I enjoy having a sense of direction and challenge that I have yet to find in GW2. Direction has nothing to do with hand holding or being more like WoW like some think, but more about my ability as a player to look at the game and set myself personal goals both of the short and long term. In that regard GW2 really just feels a little more aimless and samey, and exploration is really only fun the first time around.
Know that this is my personal experience so far, and I'm not bashing the game, just saying that there are more people like the OP who have different opinions. It's great to hear that a lot of you enjoy it, and I'll try to keep at it a bit more myself. But in the end it seems to not have quite enough substance going on for my personal taste.
How many times must I say that I LIKE the dynamic events - but I would LIKE them to be presented in a clearer fashion. I don't like the AIMLESS nature of having to find them myself.
It doesn't mean I like boring "text boxes" - though I'm sure pretending that's what I'm after makes it easier to imagine my position.
There is no current MMO that gets everything right, and there never will be.
As for MMOs that provide a clearer direction - we don't need to look far. For something similar to DEs - we can look at Rift, because it was VERY clear about where rifts appeared and when there was a dynamic event going on. But Rift is boring and the world is tiny.
The best story-driven MMO is definitely TSW - but TSW lacks a meaningful endgame - and the PvP sucks. Also, I think the combat system is lacking - and the gear is boring.
Do you bother listening to what the NPC's are saying before, during, and after an event? I'm guessing not if you think they dont tell you why you are doing what you are doing. Unless you are just completely 100% unlucky and always get to an event in progress. Each individual event and even parts of a chain in an event give alittle story on why you are doing what you are doing. Even if its something as simple as "I need to get beer to the inn up north and need bodyguards". Its still a reason. The large zone events have a ton of story to them if you havent run into one yet.
As far as needing your hand held to tell you where to go quest at and when. No, it really do that. And no, I'm not saying it in a crappy way though I'm sure it will come across like that. The game simply wont hold your hand is all I'm saying.
The first two apply to Rifts. The whole list applies to GW2 DEs. I'm wondering if your problem is with Guild Wars 2 dynamic events or just that you are looking for something that simply doesn't exist in any game. Either that or you simple DO want hand-holding but have a problem admitting that to yourself so you are looking for why it's the game's fault. I'm not quite sure it is that last one, but I'm definitely not taking it off the table at this point.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't agree with OP. There are NPCs that will explain you in general what's going on in each area (game will show you the map with different locations (hearts) and the NPC will tell you the purpose (these NPCS are marked on the map with the binocular icon)). Something very important: the game won't wait for you. ANet said this very clearly. What this means is that you may go to an area where bandits and running away from players, back to their hideout. This is because the first stage of the event was already triggered. However, these events reset again. Some NPCs will come to you or call you. Talking to NPCs is a good idea, you may trigger an event.
If you are in the human area, NPCs will tell you about centaurs, bandits, etc. The centaurs appear to be a common threat around the human lands. You will be doing small errands, if you care to talk to NPCs. If you don't, then you can help them anyway. It is up to the player to help the NPCs, but the game won't wait for anyone.
This is the second time I've tried to make a reply to this topic but I don't know how to respond. It makes me both laugh and cringe inside to know that people need direction in a game to call it fun.
If you read the scouts they tell you what is happening in the map and why it is happening, take a second out of trying to level and just read what the game is offering you lore wise because to be honest it makes you understand why you are doing what you are doing. Yes, there is no great wall of text to tell you every aspect of the map but it defiantly gives you a basic understanding.
Other than that I don't know how to answer. The Dynamic Events to me make sense as they are usually logically steps from what enemies you usually fight within the heart events.
There is plenty of direction you just need to look for it.
Maybe this is where the role play part comes in.
you have to create a backstory as to "why" you would be compelled to help out and do these things.
Someone has probably already said this but in typical mmo questing, someone says "go kill x and bring me y".
In Guild Wars you see the problem as to why you need to kill x and you make the decision to "kill x" because your character would do it. Or, you make the decision not to kill x and you don't.
So, one of the first things you get to do in GW 2 is to help a farmer who is besieged by underground dragon wyrms (or whatever they are called) and you can water the cows and kill bandits on his farm and put out fires.
I always helped with the bandits and killed the wyrms and sometimes put out the fires but never watered the cows.
Because I don't water cows.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
None of the above apply to GW2 when you're not in the vicinity of the events.
Rift doesn't require you to be in the vicinity.
That was my point - and it's not about Rift being the better game overall, because I don't like Rift.
I have to disagree. To me the world feels so alive, and the NPCs have a lot of character (especially the Skritt). When exploring, there are so many people to talk to. But what ArenaNet did, they made it all optional. NPCs just talk with chat bubbles while you can run around and don't HAVE to wait if you don't want to.
Especially coming from GW1, ArenaNet put so much detail in this game. The lore is so rich in this game, but it is all optional. Anyway, i'm back to Tyria. See you around! (Far Shiverpeaks)