Condition Damage vs. Direct Damage in PvE

swarmofseals

The two classes I am playing the most are warrior and necro. With both classes you seem to be able to spec for a focus on either direct damage or condition damage, and honestly both routes seem to be pretty good.

One thing that I have noticed though now that I am getting into the level 15+ content is that it's fairly common to run into events which culminate in a long fight against a Heroic monster with loads of health. These events inevitably attract large crowds of players, which means that conditions are flying all over the place.

Bleeds stack up to 25, but as far as I can tell that number is combined for all players hitting a target rather than 25 stacks per player. Thus it seems to me that a spec that places a lot of emphasis on bleeds (Scepter/X for Necro or Sword/X for Warrior, for example) is at a major disadvantage in these situations as many of your bleeds simply will not work.

Against weaker mobs, powerful traits like +20-50% bleed duration just aren't going to matter much as the monsters die before most of the bleed stacks fall off.

 

I was initially pretty enamored with condition specs for both of these classes but I'm starting to think that for PvE it just might not be that wise to put a heavy emphasis on condition damage. While I haven't really considered a burning emphasis, from what I read burning stacks in a way that will also be problematic for large scale encounters.

 

What do you all think?

Drafell

In the early game DPS is more important. As your character progresses, however, you will want to focus more on condition management as they become more and more important to being effective.

Wolvards

I'm level 26 on my Necro, and I switched from scepter to Axe, stack vulnerability, and retaliation on #3 is huge. I focus on pure dps for PvE, and condition for PvP. 

Also i'm a minion master, have the heal minion, bone, spider thingy, and shadow fiend, blow you bone fiends up and they drop normal mobs to 50% instantly, it's awesome. 

So I agree with you. Condition dps is kind of /meh in PvE. pure dps is where it's at. Also running with a mini army is freaking awesome. Can't wait to get traits into them to make them hit harder and live longer.

 

I also found that I don't use utility skills that much in PvE, so I either go for pets, like my necro, on signets/passives on other toons. seems like a waste to blow a 60 sec cooldown on a mob or three.

swarmofseals

I should be clear that I am talking exclusively about condition based damage -- clearly all builds will need condition control.

 

And yeah, I am hoping to make my necro a minion master as well although I find it exceptionally annoying at low levels. The pets just die so quickly and they don't regenerate health between fights. Thus I've moved away from pets and am using some wells  until I get enough points for the +50% minion health boost. Then I will likely slot my pets back in

Nilden

Well as a little Elementalist I can tell you burning makes a huge difference in kill speed. Compared to some of the other conditions I could apply burning shines bright. I imagine what you would want to apply as conditions would depend on your group.

Krytycal

Considering some classes can easily apply and sustain 10+ bleed stacks, then yes, if you do condition damage when there are several of these classes present you'll not be doing optimal damage. 

Drafell

My post wasn't entirely clear. I was referring to 'condition management' in both aspects - on mobs as well as yourself.

This part will really come down to your personal play-style. If you are going to be running around with a particular group of players, then speccing entirely to condition or DPS will work reasonably well as your friends will be able to focus more on other areas. As a solo player you will want to run more of a spread as it will impact your effectiveness and utility at higher levels.

Until about level 30 you will probably do well running pure DPS. Beyond this point the game will become a lot more challenging and you may want to consider branching out.

BadSpock

Having 113% crit on my Warrior at level 20 with Crits having a chance to apply bleeds and using Sword/Board and Rifle to stack bleeding is a hell of a lot of fun.

But, as I continue to level up (24 now) becoming impossible to maintain 100% crit and am starting to feel like a more Power based spec would be more effective...

 

swarmofseals

Originally posted by BadSpock

Having 113% crit on my Warrior at level 20 with Crits having a chance to apply bleeds and using Sword/Board and Rifle to stack bleeding is a hell of a lot of fun.

But, as I continue to level up (24 now) becoming impossible to maintain 100% crit and am starting to feel like a more Power based spec would be more effective...

 

 

You might actually be able to switch to a greatsword build without respeccing. I've been using sword/axe and putting points into arms, planning on focusing on heavy bleeds and condition damage... but now I'm thinking that maybe that might not be such a good idea. So I theorycrafted out what a greatsword build might look like and this is what I've come up with:

20 Strength: Berserker's Power, Slashing Power

20 Arms: Deep Strike, Momentous Greatsword

20 Discipline: Heightened Focus, Signet Mastery

Signet of Healing, 2 more signets, For Great Justice (or a third signet if you want), Signet of Rage

I'm not sure what to put the last 10 points in, but by the time I'm level 71 I imagine I'll have a better sense of it!

 

You start with Arms, thus allowing you to take full advantage of how ridiculous Deep Strike is at lower levels. Once you get 20 points in arms, you'll be in that range where your crit chance is starting to drop. You can either move in on discipline to grab Heightened Focus to help boost your crit back up or you can move to strength to grab more power and the extra raw damage from Berserker's Power and Slashing Power.

I dunno if this build is any good for dungeons or for dungeons, but the way it flows as you level seems really good to me. One hidden bonus is that you don't power level any line to 30 so you can wait on getting that grandmaster's tome and save some cash that way