haha GW2 had 400k concurant users during just the headstart to TSW's only 200k SOLD.
Those are some telling numbers.
ArenaNet has also spend a significant amount of money on Advertising. Which will cut heavily on the profit of the box sales.
It's always a double edged sword my friend.
actually you are wrong they said all along they wanted to rely on word of mouth from the beta weekends.. how many big flashy CGI trailers you see for GW2? yea I didn't see any either
on side note TSW is a good game just not marketing or built for a mass audience
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
This is quite surprising after everyone who bought the game was praising it as the second coming. I was even tempted to buy the game, but my Beta Experience was a miserable one. I wonder what the Beta versus Sales numbers for Funcom vs Anet, I wonder if just a "true" Beta experience killed TSW, no one plays betas any more to test the game, its basically allowing people to have a free trial and decide if they want to buy the game or not... I bet Funcom wishes they could've waited longer to go into Beta, not only because of polish, but also it would've pushed release date back as to not compete with all the games coming out now.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Originally posted by eric_w66 Makes me sad that a mediocre game like GW2 sells so many copies whereas a game with a story and definitely new and interesting world sells only 200K. GW2 is what, learn 5 skills in a few levels, farm PQ's, rinse, repeat. How is that "fun"? I can see why they don't charge monthly fees, there's nothing there worth paying for beyond the box price (if that).
You're right. Google quests and gear grind at end game is where it's at. How silly of people to like something different from you!
I don't see how others don't see that this is really bad for the genre as a whole. They jump up and down with excitement over the failure of a game that does things a bit different and actually has a different setting than fantasy/asian.
I think we will eventually see less and less game companies bother with MMO developement. So have your party now but don't bitch when you run out of stuff to do in your current MMO and want something slightly different in the future.
haha GW2 had 400k concurant users during just the headstart to TSW's only 200k SOLD.
Those are some telling numbers.
ArenaNet has also spend a significant amount of money on Advertising. Which will cut heavily on the profit of the box sales.
It's always a double edged sword my friend.
Ah yes all those TSW banners everywhere were probably spaces donated charitibly by the media....pfft. Neither game has really gone all out with traditional ATL marketing really.
That said back on topic. I'm not surprised, but not because of the game. Their latest shareholder report was one of the most "apologetic" I've ever seen, in fact, I don't think I've ever quite seen anything like it. And financial pr used to be my job.
Banners on internet is cheap advertisement man and really not that effective at all compaired to real advertising in stores, written media, TV, etc. Which they basically didn't do.
Add to that, that the media were disgrunteled because of lack of advertisment money (it really was just that) and they just unreasonably trashed the game to no end in the media!
I have never ever seen such a disparity between media critic score and user critic scores as with The Secret World!
So there was definitely something fishy going on. As norm has always been the other way around, with media scores always being higher than user scores.
Originally posted by Psychow If they decide to make it B2P or F2P, I am 100% positive I will play it.
That really doesn't help there situation because they are not getting money out of you...
Well, if it went B2P they would get my purchase, just like GW2 did. If they went F2P, they "probably" would get my cash shop purchases. (I say probably, if they used a model similar to what Turbine used).
Originally posted by eric_w66 Makes me sad that a mediocre game like GW2 sells so many copies whereas a game with a story and definitely new and interesting world sells only 200K. GW2 is what, learn 5 skills in a few levels, farm PQ's, rinse, repeat. How is that "fun"? I can see why they don't charge monthly fees, there's nothing there worth paying for beyond the box price (if that).
You're right. Google quests and gear grind at end game is where it's at. How silly of people to like something different from you!
I don't see how others don't see that this is really bad for the genre as a whole. They jump up and down with excitement over the failure of a game that does things a bit different and actually has a different setting than fantasy/asian.
I think we will eventually see less and less game companies bother with MMO developement. So have your party now but don't bitch when you run out of stuff to do in your current MMO and want something slightly different in the future.
I think there's many things you don't see. For a one, how TSW was a great idea but horrendous execution by a studio known for just that. Having great ideas and dumping on them.
Secondly, you don't see that I never anywhere said I'm happy it failed, I'd rather it have worked better than say - insert wow copy here - for the very reasons you state.
The third thing you don't see is that I could make your very same argument for your, well let's call it opinion, of GW2.
Originally posted by Meltdown This is quite surprising after everyone who bought the game was praising it as the second coming.
Cite 1 post that says that.
Firstly I never said anything about these forums.
Secondly I never quoted anyone, so you want a non-existant quote?
Lastly even making the quantum leaps you assume in your post. The first thread I looked for at had this "To my suprise the game is exceptional and i have had the most fun in it that i have had in any mmo lately. " - so it would've taken you a whopping 5 seconds to find anything similar to what I said.
So yea... are we upping post counts or just trololololing?
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Yup, all this infighting and people taking pleasure in other than "their own" games failure is probably going to be the death of the genera.
It's perfectly fine to not like a certain game and how it does things. But this need to stomp on anything you personally don't like while others do is truly sad...
Originally posted by eric_w66 Makes me sad that a mediocre game like GW2 sells so many copies whereas a game with a story and definitely new and interesting world sells only 200K. GW2 is what, learn 5 skills in a few levels, farm PQ's, rinse, repeat. How is that "fun"? I can see why they don't charge monthly fees, there's nothing there worth paying for beyond the box price (if that).
If you don't know what you are talking about don't talk.
haha GW2 had 400k concurant users during just the headstart to TSW's only 200k SOLD.
Those are some telling numbers.
ArenaNet has also spend a significant amount of money on Advertising. Which will cut heavily on the profit of the box sales.
It's always a double edged sword my friend.
Ah yes all those TSW banners everywhere were probably spaces donated charitibly by the media....pfft. Neither game has really gone all out with traditional ATL marketing really.
That said back on topic. I'm not surprised, but not because of the game. Their latest shareholder report was one of the most "apologetic" I've ever seen, in fact, I don't think I've ever quite seen anything like it. And financial pr used to be my job.
Banners on internet is cheap advertisement man and really not that effective at all compaired to real advertising in stores, written media, TV, etc. Which they basically didn't do.
Add to that, that the media were disgrunteled because of lack of advertisment money (it really was just that) and they just unreasonably trashed the game to no end in the media!
I have never ever seen such a disparity between media critic score and user critic scores as with The Secret World!
So there was definitely something fishy going on. As norm has always been the other way around, with media scores always being higher than user scores.
Yes, and I haven't seen any air or print for either game.
Unfortunately for TSW Funcom is known for making, well, crap games. That's the reputation they entered this launch with and their betas didn't help them. I know it got better at launch, but i'm thinking alot of reviewers didn't give it a second go after beta.
I'm not gonna get into the paid review thing. Suffice to say I didn't have much to disagree with with most of them. It could have been a solid 9 but it launched a solid 7 imo, which is what it mostly got if I recall.
Originally posted by eric_w66 Makes me sad that a mediocre game like GW2 sells so many copies whereas a game with a story and definitely new and interesting world sells only 200K. GW2 is what, learn 5 skills in a few levels, farm PQ's, rinse, repeat. How is that "fun"? I can see why they don't charge monthly fees, there's nothing there worth paying for beyond the box price (if that).
If you don't know what you are talking about don't talk.
I lol'd, is he even describing GW2 or some random made up game?
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Originally posted by MeltdownThis is quite surprising after everyone who bought the game was praising it as the second coming.
Cite 1 post that says that.
Firstly I never said anything about these forums.
Secondly I never quoted anyone, so you want a non-existant quote?
Lastly even making the quantum leaps you assume in your post. The first thread I looked for at had this "To my suprise the game is exceptional and i have had the most fun in it that i have had in any mmo lately. " - so it would've taken you a whopping 5 seconds to find anything similar to what I said.
So yea... are we upping post counts or just trololololing?
Im very serious. You made a claim and i made it very easy for you to cite a reference from any source and you come out empty handed.
The qoute you posted simply displays a personal enjoyment of the game. Not that its "the second coming"
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
All one had to do was look at the total number of servers at release and it was obvious 200k was the max sold. All these posts by people saying a million, 800k, 500k were just ridicoulous.
All that being said forn a Funcom game TSW is a quality game. But a game that will likely never be finished or fully developed.
Originally posted by eric_w66 Makes me sad that a mediocre game like GW2 sells so many copies whereas a game with a story and definitely new and interesting world sells only 200K. GW2 is what, learn 5 skills in a few levels, farm PQ's, rinse, repeat. How is that "fun"? I can see why they don't charge monthly fees, there's nothing there worth paying for beyond the box price (if that).
You're right. Google quests and gear grind at end game is where it's at. How silly of people to like something different from you!
I don't see how others don't see that this is really bad for the genre as a whole. They jump up and down with excitement over the failure of a game that does things a bit different and actually has a different setting than fantasy/asian.
I think we will eventually see less and less game companies bother with MMO developement. So have your party now but don't bitch when you run out of stuff to do in your current MMO and want something slightly different in the future.
I think there's many things you don't see. For a one, how TSW was a great idea but horrendous execution by a studio known for just that. Having great ideas and dumping on them.
Secondly, you don't see that I never anywhere said I'm happy it failed, I'd rather it have worked better than say - insert wow copy here - for the very reasons you state.
The third thing you don't see is that I could make your very same argument for your, well let's call it opinion, of GW2.
Wha? I like GW2 and I'm playing both games. Both games are great for the genre.
I knew this game would be lucky to have 250k subs after one month, but it apparently did worse than I thought. I figured they sell about 400k, but knew the game wouldn't do well for several reasons:
1) Funcom. Funcom has good ideas but is lacking in execution. They have a terrible reputation for MMO launches. AO is widely regarded as worst launch ever, and AoC's launch wasn't so hot, either. Of the MMOs I was there for launch of, AoC's was the worst, hands down...I can't imagine how bad AO's launch was. To be fair, TSW's launch seemed to go OK, but I don't know how many people I saw post that they would wait for the game to be out for a few months before trying it because of Funcom's rep.
2) Niche/unknown IP. Swords and sorcery still reign supreme, unless you have a well established IP. I don't really think the different mechanics (i.e. no classes or levels) was a turn off, but I agree fewer devs will try it in the future because of this.
3) Total lack of marketing. I don't know how many people I saw say "what is that?" when someone mentioned TSW.
4) Mandatory sub fee + massive cash shop. When a subscription based game is designed from the get go for a F2P conversion, this is a sign that (A) the devs aren't confident in the game's ability to keep people around and (B) is viewed as a shameless cash grab. This was a huge turn off to many people. Lifetime sub offers are also a similar red flag for many people for the previously mentioned reasons.
5) The combat is lackluster, IMO, and in the opinion of many of the reviews I've seen.
6) Hate to say it, but judging by all the complaining about the barely challenging puzzles in the game, the ADHD crowd would skip this. This may be viewed by many (including me) as a good thing, it still adds up to a lot of no sales.
One of the things that turned me off after playing was the extremely low quest limit. To me, it was just plain dumb that I could be out exploring and come across a guy stuck in a bear trap with a quest marker over his head, but I couldn't pick up the quest because I already had three "green" quest. Yes, three whopping quests for a limit. I'm like "sorry dude, I'd like to help you out here, but I can't handle more than 3 things at once". Yes, I know I could put a waypoint on the map and come back to it (which I did), but why should I have to?
It was also dumb in that several NPCs had you going to the same location, but since you couldn't have their quests at he same time (the "red" quests), I had to go back and fight through the same trash mobs I should have only had to kill once. This just seemed to be like a cheap attempt to artificially make the game look like it had more content, because it took me twice as long to do two quests as it would have in another MMO.
We all knew TSW was niche game. I don’t think anyone realized their niche was that small though. Per their own estimates, if I remember correctly, they needed to sell and keep 500K subs for the game to be profitable and sustained. It’s no wonder they had to make such substantial cuts into their staff and plans for game content additions considering.
I have heard rumors that they do not feel their facebook marketing campaign was good enough on its own merits. Based on what I saw, I think the ARGS were a great idea and the CGI films were fun but not enough on their own.
If nothing else, this is a pretty harsh learning experience I think other professionals in the industry are going to quietly notice and consider. I doubt we will ever see another game like TSW. Even Funcom admits: “Funcom will in the future direct its resources towards smaller, more focused online games, system-focused games with a high degree of community and player interaction."
I could pick holes in their play model. They admit in their own words that it’s a problem. But I am not sure they are looking at sand boxes now as that quote reads like they are ditching the classic MMORPG in favor of MOBAS and browser games.
TSW may go free to play sooner than expected if it lives on...
Comments
actually you are wrong they said all along they wanted to rely on word of mouth from the beta weekends.. how many big flashy CGI trailers you see for GW2? yea I didn't see any either
on side note TSW is a good game just not marketing or built for a mass audience
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
That really doesn't help there situation because they are not getting money out of you...
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Bad timing
Brand new IP (Generally an MMO killer)
Developer with a history of shipping WAY too early
Advertisements that don't really give you any idea of what the game is like
Even with all of those issues, 200K is pretty poor.
Cite 1 post that says that.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I don't see how others don't see that this is really bad for the genre as a whole. They jump up and down with excitement over the failure of a game that does things a bit different and actually has a different setting than fantasy/asian.
I think we will eventually see less and less game companies bother with MMO developement. So have your party now but don't bitch when you run out of stuff to do in your current MMO and want something slightly different in the future.
Banners on internet is cheap advertisement man and really not that effective at all compaired to real advertising in stores, written media, TV, etc. Which they basically didn't do.
Add to that, that the media were disgrunteled because of lack of advertisment money (it really was just that) and they just unreasonably trashed the game to no end in the media!
I have never ever seen such a disparity between media critic score and user critic scores as with The Secret World!
So there was definitely something fishy going on. As norm has always been the other way around, with media scores always being higher than user scores.
I don't remember a lot of people calling this a WoW killer. SWTOR, GW2 yes, but TSW was never in the running for that title.
I self identify as a monkey.
Well, if it went B2P they would get my purchase, just like GW2 did. If they went F2P, they "probably" would get my cash shop purchases. (I say probably, if they used a model similar to what Turbine used).
I think there's many things you don't see. For a one, how TSW was a great idea but horrendous execution by a studio known for just that. Having great ideas and dumping on them.
Secondly, you don't see that I never anywhere said I'm happy it failed, I'd rather it have worked better than say - insert wow copy here - for the very reasons you state.
The third thing you don't see is that I could make your very same argument for your, well let's call it opinion, of GW2.
May have worked out better for you Funcom if you hadn't pretended this was an MMO and just sold it as a coop RPG, as you should have.
Dishonesty sinks you again.
Firstly I never said anything about these forums.
Secondly I never quoted anyone, so you want a non-existant quote?
Lastly even making the quantum leaps you assume in your post. The first thread I looked for at had this "To my suprise the game is exceptional and i have had the most fun in it that i have had in any mmo lately. " - so it would've taken you a whopping 5 seconds to find anything similar to what I said.
So yea... are we upping post counts or just trololololing?
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
@Mardukk
Yup, all this infighting and people taking pleasure in other than "their own" games failure is probably going to be the death of the genera.
It's perfectly fine to not like a certain game and how it does things. But this need to stomp on anything you personally don't like while others do is truly sad...
If you don't know what you are talking about don't talk.
Yes, and I haven't seen any air or print for either game.
Unfortunately for TSW Funcom is known for making, well, crap games. That's the reputation they entered this launch with and their betas didn't help them. I know it got better at launch, but i'm thinking alot of reviewers didn't give it a second go after beta.
I'm not gonna get into the paid review thing. Suffice to say I didn't have much to disagree with with most of them. It could have been a solid 9 but it launched a solid 7 imo, which is what it mostly got if I recall.
I lol'd, is he even describing GW2 or some random made up game?
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Im very serious. You made a claim and i made it very easy for you to cite a reference from any source and you come out empty handed.
The qoute you posted simply displays a personal enjoyment of the game. Not that its "the second coming"
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
All one had to do was look at the total number of servers at release and it was obvious 200k was the max sold. All these posts by people saying a million, 800k, 500k were just ridicoulous.
All that being said forn a Funcom game TSW is a quality game. But a game that will likely never be finished or fully developed.
I hate Funcom for Age of Conan and Shadow Lands AddOn.
BUT.. I also love em for creating Anarchy Online. Bleh...Why can't they just work on AO2 or atleast a remake of AO.
/////////
Y U NO GIEF AO2 ?!
Wha? I like GW2 and I'm playing both games. Both games are great for the genre.
Yeah you seem really broken up about it....
I knew this game would be lucky to have 250k subs after one month, but it apparently did worse than I thought. I figured they sell about 400k, but knew the game wouldn't do well for several reasons:
1) Funcom. Funcom has good ideas but is lacking in execution. They have a terrible reputation for MMO launches. AO is widely regarded as worst launch ever, and AoC's launch wasn't so hot, either. Of the MMOs I was there for launch of, AoC's was the worst, hands down...I can't imagine how bad AO's launch was. To be fair, TSW's launch seemed to go OK, but I don't know how many people I saw post that they would wait for the game to be out for a few months before trying it because of Funcom's rep.
2) Niche/unknown IP. Swords and sorcery still reign supreme, unless you have a well established IP. I don't really think the different mechanics (i.e. no classes or levels) was a turn off, but I agree fewer devs will try it in the future because of this.
3) Total lack of marketing. I don't know how many people I saw say "what is that?" when someone mentioned TSW.
4) Mandatory sub fee + massive cash shop. When a subscription based game is designed from the get go for a F2P conversion, this is a sign that (A) the devs aren't confident in the game's ability to keep people around and (B) is viewed as a shameless cash grab. This was a huge turn off to many people. Lifetime sub offers are also a similar red flag for many people for the previously mentioned reasons.
5) The combat is lackluster, IMO, and in the opinion of many of the reviews I've seen.
6) Hate to say it, but judging by all the complaining about the barely challenging puzzles in the game, the ADHD crowd would skip this. This may be viewed by many (including me) as a good thing, it still adds up to a lot of no sales.
One of the things that turned me off after playing was the extremely low quest limit. To me, it was just plain dumb that I could be out exploring and come across a guy stuck in a bear trap with a quest marker over his head, but I couldn't pick up the quest because I already had three "green" quest. Yes, three whopping quests for a limit. I'm like "sorry dude, I'd like to help you out here, but I can't handle more than 3 things at once". Yes, I know I could put a waypoint on the map and come back to it (which I did), but why should I have to?
It was also dumb in that several NPCs had you going to the same location, but since you couldn't have their quests at he same time (the "red" quests), I had to go back and fight through the same trash mobs I should have only had to kill once. This just seemed to be like a cheap attempt to artificially make the game look like it had more content, because it took me twice as long to do two quests as it would have in another MMO.
We all knew TSW was niche game. I don’t think anyone realized their niche was that small though. Per their own estimates, if I remember correctly, they needed to sell and keep 500K subs for the game to be profitable and sustained. It’s no wonder they had to make such substantial cuts into their staff and plans for game content additions considering.
I have heard rumors that they do not feel their facebook marketing campaign was good enough on its own merits. Based on what I saw, I think the ARGS were a great idea and the CGI films were fun but not enough on their own.
If nothing else, this is a pretty harsh learning experience I think other professionals in the industry are going to quietly notice and consider. I doubt we will ever see another game like TSW. Even Funcom admits: “Funcom will in the future direct its resources towards smaller, more focused online games, system-focused games with a high degree of community and player interaction."
I could pick holes in their play model. They admit in their own words that it’s a problem. But I am not sure they are looking at sand boxes now as that quote reads like they are ditching the classic MMORPG in favor of MOBAS and browser games.
TSW may go free to play sooner than expected if it lives on...