Originally posted by Castillle So...GW2 failed. TSW failed. SWTOR failed. Just about everything failed. So aside from WoW, what mmo DIDNT fail? o.O Entropia Universe? o.O
MMOs that didn't fail are far and few between lately.
Ultima Online
Everquest
Dark Age of Camelot
Eve
SWG
Lineage II
Everquest 2
WoW *
Although WoW made billions of dollars it was a terrible game. Imagine before eating at 5 star resturants and then McDonolds comes a long becomes the most successful resturant of all time. Then outragously all the 5 star resturants try to compete with McDonalds and started serving burgers and fries. Suddenly you couldn't get a good Filet Minon to save your life. That has been the pretty much been the history of MMOs.
Originally posted by Castillle So...GW2 failed. TSW failed. SWTOR failed. Just about everything failed. So aside from WoW, what mmo DIDNT fail? o.O Entropia Universe? o.O
There is no game which wont fail at the end.. But some fails even before start
wow was launched 2004 now its 8years later and things have gone so much further of that and yet they are failing the launches just like gw2 did. maintenances and login crashes all the time. with todays technology you should be able to make things work, but no all they think is money.
Originally posted by rybalee wow was launched 2004 now its 8years later and things have gone so much further of that and yet they are failing the launches just like gw2 did. maintenances and login crashes all the time. with todays technology you should be able to make things work, but no all they think is money.
no, tech goes up, but so does Graphics, which counters the advancements of the tech.
if MMO games now days had graphics like DAoC,EQ, it could pull off some great things.
notice how the best mmo on the market always seem to have the worst graphics compared to the competition.
Originally posted by Castillle So...GW2 failed. TSW failed. SWTOR failed. Just about everything failed. So aside from WoW, what mmo DIDNT fail? o.O Entropia Universe? o.O
I don't know what you mean by "failed".
If you mean launches, almost all failed except for LotRO, DAoC, and Darkfall, as far as I know.
If you mean, financially... GW2 seems to have done quite well. SWTOR, Asheron's Call 2, TSW, Vanguard, and WAR, Tabula Rasa failed hard... Rift and LotRO also failed on a smaller scale (Rift had to merge servers soon after launch, never a good sign.
So what MMOs grew in a steady healthy fashion after launch?
Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Eve, City of Heroes, Asheron's Call, Star Wars Galaxies, EverQuest, and Darkfall.
Go figure, its the MMOs that did something new and unique and actually offered a large social virtual world, rather than instanced quest grinding on rails that grew over time and built communities..
I experienced lag for about an hour on headstart launch, I didn't have one crash, and my world was only ever down for maintenance. (Updates to get rid of exploits that players were finding among other things I'm sure)
Everyone I've talked to has said they love it. It has high ratings everywhere. I don't get how you could POSSIBLY call this a failure. Think clearly! Do it! NOW! You're obviously just burnt out.
I've played... many... manny MMOs. WoW I hated, SWTOR the same thing, AoC same, Warhammer same, they were all terribel, Rift was alright-ish.
Guild Wars 2, I've been playing for just about 60 hours. I can't stop. I fucking look forward to that shit when I get off work. And I've heard the same thing from TONS of people.
Sure, it hasn't hit TEN MILLION copies like WoW, but you're forgetting WoW didn't hit that until after a few years.
And like someone else said, if you want smooth launch, the first Guild Wars had the smoothest launch in MMO history. Not ONE problem on launch. It was fricking awesome. Constant updates, constant build updates, A-Net is CONSTANTLY busting their asses on this game EVEN now that it's out.
Your definition of fail is mind-blowing. In fact your definition doesn't matter. Go look in the dictionary.
Guild Wars 2 is a SUCCESS. Maybe not the messiah of MMO gaming to everyone, but it sure as hell is to a lot of people.
MMOs that didn't fail are far and few between lately.
Ultima Online
Everquest
Dark Age of Camelot
Eve
SWG
Lineage II
Everquest 2
WoW *
Although WoW made billions of dollars it was a terrible game. Imagine before eating at 5 star resturants and then McDonolds comes a long becomes the most successful resturant of all time. Then outragously all the 5 star resturants try to compete with McDonalds and started serving burgers and fries. Suddenly you couldn't get a good Filet Minon to save your life. That has been the pretty much been the history of MMOs.
You couldn't be more wrong. WoW was not a terrible game. Infact it was a fairly good one - a jack of all trades, if you will. None of the competitors are really gourmet restaurants (*) so your analogy frankly sucks.
*(Hotels are rated with stars from 1-5+, restaurants are given Michelin stars 1-3 and having just one is a great achievement: chefs have been known to commit suicide after losing one star.)
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by Castillle So...GW2 failed. TSW failed. SWTOR failed. Just about everything failed. So aside from WoW, what mmo DIDNT fail? o.O Entropia Universe? o.O
Games that have not failed!
FFXI ( after a shaky and crappy launch the game still has 200K subs)
GW2 ( b2p and has 1+ mil buyers)
TSW ( Is a unique game in the modern settings, just not my cup of tea)
Rift (350k~ subs still)
Lotor ( proftitable )
Star Trek (is not profitable now)
WoW Vanilla ( we all know it has 10 mil subs but only about 4-5.5 mil is through US/UK, the rest is CGF software)
EQ, Ultima, and Anarchy ( are all important staples in MMORPG history!)
EQ2 ( Is about to gain a few thousand more ppl to play, why u ask? it has some unique features of a sandbox game for those so-called Niche players)
GW1 (B2P and has sold millions in the game and expansions, enough said)
Games That have failed!
FFXIV ( devs failed to hear the cry of the community and brushed us off, poor engine not meant for mmos and the list goes on.... forget it! The producer basiclly called westerners "Dumb", The Fn Fatigue system, the crafting system)
SWToR ( what can i say this was a complete rip-off of WoW, the gameplay was stale, all races are the same, cheap GFX engine, the sith look like Robo-Cop wanna-be, Lobbied Gameplay, No wars in a game called "STAR WARS"! I could go on forever on this one)
Age Of Conan ( where to begin.......poor optimization even on a High System @ the time, after level 20 the game plummets faster than the Lehman Brother's stock, bugs-bugs-bugs!!!!!!!)
Warhammer Online ( Tried to focus too much on pvp and didn't really try to balance the game out, was rushed on the market, another cheap copy of wow's gameplay, I know WaR was out before WoW Im not going to get into it just read about the history between these two games!)
Vanguard ( Was a Sandboxer's wet dream but instead it turned out to be the Nightmare on Hell Street!, Another rushed product on the market, Optimization so poor that Enthusiast PC builders were reporting frames in the mid teens, Invisible mobs that killed you, mobs go from lvl 5 straight to level 70 mobs by taking 10 steps in a direction, supreme laggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg.........!)
WoW post Vanilla/Burning Crusade ( PvP became a grind/farmfest instead of being fun, PvP ranks removed, turned from open world to a instanced lobby game a.k.a just multiplayer, achievement points became an "Resume" for ppl to join groups, insta port to an instance, LFG and cross server LFG, Panda's, Worgen's, & Goblins as PC's, Rehash of older instances, Lore Butcherisim, and ect)
Aion & Tera ( Not to knock on Korean games but these two stunk up the place soo bad that they are failing in their own home countries worst than in the US! Aion was just too Grindy. Tera was ok till i saw the cute little killer pink bunnies and the Half nude Children! Tera has some nice boss battles and thats about it!)
Games That are in Purgatory!
FFXIV 2.0 A Relm Reborn ( New producer, listened to the community, New engine designed for a MMO, New race counter parts Male Mithra's and Female Galka's, an AH, a reason now to PvP in FFXIV, Greater summons like Ifrit & Odin are now open world bosses that can be defeated to be controled for one encounter and will escape till fought again note: only one guild/linkshell can control it at a time, the list goes on.)
SwToR Fremmium ( it maybe can be repaired but 300 mil+ is nothing to sneeze at)
Below is where we can disscuss and come up with new ideas for Sandparks!
I don't play it and have no intention of playing it, but I'm not sure how GW2 is considered a failure? Heck, it hasn't even had time to fail.
TOR is considered a failure simply because of the insane Development Budget sunk into it...even worse if you count any of the cost that EA paid to aquire Bioware into the equition. Had it been developed with a more typical budget/resources, it would probably be considered a moderate-marginal success.
TSW failed because for whatever reason it didn't come close to meeting Funcoms sales & retention expectations.
Note when using the term "failure" here, I assume we're talking abount financial expectations. Which is purely a measure of how much revenue the game returned in comparison to how much was sunk into it.
If we are talking some other measure...like quality....then things are going to start to get subjective pretty quickly.
In those terms, the only "failures" that come immediately to mind are TOR, TSE, Vanguard, APB, Matrix, STO. There may be a few others that I've missed. Maybe AoC & WAR...not quite sure ultimately how well they ended up doing.
For the rest, while there haven't been very many runaway successes....I don't think there are any actual failures. Maby a few that didn't perform quite as well as the Publisher hoped...but that's not neccesarly a failure.
MMOs that didn't fail are far and few between lately.
Ultima Online
Everquest
Dark Age of Camelot
Eve
SWG
Lineage II
Everquest 2
WoW *
Although WoW made billions of dollars it was a terrible game. Imagine before eating at 5 star resturants and then McDonolds comes a long becomes the most successful resturant of all time. Then outragously all the 5 star resturants try to compete with McDonalds and started serving burgers and fries. Suddenly you couldn't get a good Filet Minon to save your life. That has been the pretty much been the history of MMOs.
You couldn't be more wrong. WoW was not a terrible game. Infact it was a fairly good one - a jack of all trades, if you will. None of the competitors are really gourmet restaurants (*) so your analogy frankly sucks.
*(Hotels are rated with stars from 1-5+, restaurants are given Michelin stars 1-3 and having just one is a great achievement: chefs have been known to commit suicide after losing one star.)
How can WoW be a jack of all trades if it lacked many of the features pre WoW MMOs had, like PvP and housing? No, it was an average to poor game that had a good marketing budget.
I haven't even had time to pick up GW2 and it's already dead?
New record!
GW2 did not fail. lol But if you want to believe a bunch of ****** *****....go right ahead. If I were you, I'd find my own facts. If you believe the idjits from this site then you'll believe that every single game ever made.....failed. Around here people think if they say something it will make it happen. They're all a bunch of snot-nosed whiney brats that WANT everything to fail, so they go around proclaiming failures.
Do yourself a favor and find your own facts, like I said. Don't believe me or anyone else, for SURE no one on this site.
Actually wow launch would of been considered a huge failure today... but yeah...
If your talking about failed on delivering the hype, I'd say pretty much every mmo and they will all disapoint in this regards. Quite hard to make expectation that are built up for games in the rediculous hype.
I wouldnt really say TSW failed, By design alone it wasn't going to try and be this massive game with 3 billion players. None of what has happened has suprised me at all. TSW is going to stay a small Dedicated fanbase that have no interest in new games being released.
the people who play TSW were people looking for someting different. we got it, we enjoy it. which if you follow the interviews and articles was what they were going for. AoC and AO shows that you don't need WoW numbers to be successful. you just need people to play the game and enjoy it.
So if you define TSW a failure for it not doing what every other MMO was trying to do, you have the wrong descritpion of failure. I define TSW a success because it achieved what it was trying to.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
If you are talking about launches it's an exceedingly hard problem. Despite all of the beta testing it just can't scale to what is actually going to happen at launch.
Originally posted by Superman0X The first game to not fail was Everquest. The next was WoW. We havent had a bigger sucess in the MMORPG Genre since these.
I seem to remember hearing a lot of issues about Everquest's launch day. They had such record numbers (for the time) at launch that they had major issues.
I also remember Dark Age of Camelot having a very successful launch day.
Originally posted by Castillle So...GW2 failed. TSW failed. SWTOR failed. Just about everything failed. So aside from WoW, what mmo DIDNT fail? o.O Entropia Universe? o.O
You can write an emo kid song with that theme. Call it "Everything is Fail".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Originally posted by Superman0X The first game to not fail was Everquest. The next was WoW. We havent had a bigger sucess in the MMORPG Genre since these.
...what? Please, you have no idea what you're talking about.
If the company turns a profit on a game then it is not a failure...yeah servers may shut down and otehr things that bother us, but the bottom line is it did not fail....Now when a game needs to sell a million boxes and only sells 200k, then that is a failure.
A game hasn't failed until its servers shut down. In that case Tabula rasa failed, the chronicles of spellborn failed...Not sure who else has closed their doors.
Comments
All the ones that are still running.
I guess I've been too busy playing GW2 to realize it failed.
Thanks for the info.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
Best analogy ever. Well said!!!!
There is no game which wont fail at the end.. But some fails even before start
no, tech goes up, but so does Graphics, which counters the advancements of the tech.
if MMO games now days had graphics like DAoC,EQ, it could pull off some great things.
notice how the best mmo on the market always seem to have the worst graphics compared to the competition.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I don't know what you mean by "failed".
If you mean launches, almost all failed except for LotRO, DAoC, and Darkfall, as far as I know.
If you mean, financially... GW2 seems to have done quite well. SWTOR, Asheron's Call 2, TSW, Vanguard, and WAR, Tabula Rasa failed hard... Rift and LotRO also failed on a smaller scale (Rift had to merge servers soon after launch, never a good sign.
So what MMOs grew in a steady healthy fashion after launch?
Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Eve, City of Heroes, Asheron's Call, Star Wars Galaxies, EverQuest, and Darkfall.
Go figure, its the MMOs that did something new and unique and actually offered a large social virtual world, rather than instanced quest grinding on rails that grew over time and built communities..
Guild Wars 2... failed?
[mod edit]
I experienced lag for about an hour on headstart launch, I didn't have one crash, and my world was only ever down for maintenance. (Updates to get rid of exploits that players were finding among other things I'm sure)
Everyone I've talked to has said they love it. It has high ratings everywhere. I don't get how you could POSSIBLY call this a failure. Think clearly! Do it! NOW! You're obviously just burnt out.
I've played... many... manny MMOs. WoW I hated, SWTOR the same thing, AoC same, Warhammer same, they were all terribel, Rift was alright-ish.
Guild Wars 2, I've been playing for just about 60 hours. I can't stop. I fucking look forward to that shit when I get off work. And I've heard the same thing from TONS of people.
Sure, it hasn't hit TEN MILLION copies like WoW, but you're forgetting WoW didn't hit that until after a few years.
And like someone else said, if you want smooth launch, the first Guild Wars had the smoothest launch in MMO history. Not ONE problem on launch. It was fricking awesome. Constant updates, constant build updates, A-Net is CONSTANTLY busting their asses on this game EVEN now that it's out.
Your definition of fail is mind-blowing. In fact your definition doesn't matter. Go look in the dictionary.
Guild Wars 2 is a SUCCESS. Maybe not the messiah of MMO gaming to everyone, but it sure as hell is to a lot of people.
You couldn't be more wrong. WoW was not a terrible game. Infact it was a fairly good one - a jack of all trades, if you will. None of the competitors are really gourmet restaurants (*) so your analogy frankly sucks.
*(Hotels are rated with stars from 1-5+, restaurants are given Michelin stars 1-3 and having just one is a great achievement: chefs have been known to commit suicide after losing one star.)
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Games that have not failed!
FFXI ( after a shaky and crappy launch the game still has 200K subs)
GW2 ( b2p and has 1+ mil buyers)
TSW ( Is a unique game in the modern settings, just not my cup of tea)
Rift (350k~ subs still)
Lotor ( proftitable )
Star Trek (is not profitable now)
WoW Vanilla ( we all know it has 10 mil subs but only about 4-5.5 mil is through US/UK, the rest is CGF software)
EQ, Ultima, and Anarchy ( are all important staples in MMORPG history!)
EQ2 ( Is about to gain a few thousand more ppl to play, why u ask? it has some unique features of a sandbox game for those so-called Niche players)
GW1 (B2P and has sold millions in the game and expansions, enough said)
Games That have failed!
FFXIV ( devs failed to hear the cry of the community and brushed us off, poor engine not meant for mmos and the list goes on.... forget it! The producer basiclly called westerners "Dumb", The Fn Fatigue system, the crafting system)
SWToR ( what can i say this was a complete rip-off of WoW, the gameplay was stale, all races are the same, cheap GFX engine, the sith look like Robo-Cop wanna-be, Lobbied Gameplay, No wars in a game called "STAR WARS"! I could go on forever on this one)
Age Of Conan ( where to begin.......poor optimization even on a High System @ the time, after level 20 the game plummets faster than the Lehman Brother's stock, bugs-bugs-bugs!!!!!!!)
Warhammer Online ( Tried to focus too much on pvp and didn't really try to balance the game out, was rushed on the market, another cheap copy of wow's gameplay, I know WaR was out before WoW Im not going to get into it just read about the history between these two games!)
Vanguard ( Was a Sandboxer's wet dream but instead it turned out to be the Nightmare on Hell Street!, Another rushed product on the market, Optimization so poor that Enthusiast PC builders were reporting frames in the mid teens, Invisible mobs that killed you, mobs go from lvl 5 straight to level 70 mobs by taking 10 steps in a direction, supreme laggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg.........!)
WoW post Vanilla/Burning Crusade ( PvP became a grind/farmfest instead of being fun, PvP ranks removed, turned from open world to a instanced lobby game a.k.a just multiplayer, achievement points became an "Resume" for ppl to join groups, insta port to an instance, LFG and cross server LFG, Panda's, Worgen's, & Goblins as PC's, Rehash of older instances, Lore Butcherisim, and ect)
Aion & Tera ( Not to knock on Korean games but these two stunk up the place soo bad that they are failing in their own home countries worst than in the US! Aion was just too Grindy. Tera was ok till i saw the cute little killer pink bunnies and the Half nude Children! Tera has some nice boss battles and thats about it!)
Games That are in Purgatory!
FFXIV 2.0 A Relm Reborn ( New producer, listened to the community, New engine designed for a MMO, New race counter parts Male Mithra's and Female Galka's, an AH, a reason now to PvP in FFXIV, Greater summons like Ifrit & Odin are now open world bosses that can be defeated to be controled for one encounter and will escape till fought again note: only one guild/linkshell can control it at a time, the list goes on.)
SwToR Fremmium ( it maybe can be repaired but 300 mil+ is nothing to sneeze at)
Below is where we can disscuss and come up with new ideas for Sandparks!
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5164689#5164689
I don't play it and have no intention of playing it, but I'm not sure how GW2 is considered a failure? Heck, it hasn't even had time to fail.
TOR is considered a failure simply because of the insane Development Budget sunk into it...even worse if you count any of the cost that EA paid to aquire Bioware into the equition. Had it been developed with a more typical budget/resources, it would probably be considered a moderate-marginal success.
TSW failed because for whatever reason it didn't come close to meeting Funcoms sales & retention expectations.
Note when using the term "failure" here, I assume we're talking abount financial expectations. Which is purely a measure of how much revenue the game returned in comparison to how much was sunk into it.
If we are talking some other measure...like quality....then things are going to start to get subjective pretty quickly.
In those terms, the only "failures" that come immediately to mind are TOR, TSE, Vanguard, APB, Matrix, STO. There may be a few others that I've missed. Maybe AoC & WAR...not quite sure ultimately how well they ended up doing.
For the rest, while there haven't been very many runaway successes....I don't think there are any actual failures. Maby a few that didn't perform quite as well as the Publisher hoped...but that's not neccesarly a failure.
How can WoW be a jack of all trades if it lacked many of the features pre WoW MMOs had, like PvP and housing? No, it was an average to poor game that had a good marketing budget.
GW2 did not fail. lol But if you want to believe a bunch of ****** *****....go right ahead. If I were you, I'd find my own facts. If you believe the idjits from this site then you'll believe that every single game ever made.....failed. Around here people think if they say something it will make it happen. They're all a bunch of snot-nosed whiney brats that WANT everything to fail, so they go around proclaiming failures.
Do yourself a favor and find your own facts, like I said. Don't believe me or anyone else, for SURE no one on this site.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Actually wow launch would of been considered a huge failure today... but yeah...
If your talking about failed on delivering the hype, I'd say pretty much every mmo and they will all disapoint in this regards. Quite hard to make expectation that are built up for games in the rediculous hype.
I wouldnt really say TSW failed, By design alone it wasn't going to try and be this massive game with 3 billion players. None of what has happened has suprised me at all. TSW is going to stay a small Dedicated fanbase that have no interest in new games being released.
the people who play TSW were people looking for someting different. we got it, we enjoy it. which if you follow the interviews and articles was what they were going for. AoC and AO shows that you don't need WoW numbers to be successful. you just need people to play the game and enjoy it.
So if you define TSW a failure for it not doing what every other MMO was trying to do, you have the wrong descritpion of failure. I define TSW a success because it achieved what it was trying to.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
No one claims Dark Age of Camelot failed. Or any of the other classic MMOs.
I seem to remember hearing a lot of issues about Everquest's launch day. They had such record numbers (for the time) at launch that they had major issues.
I also remember Dark Age of Camelot having a very successful launch day.
You can write an emo kid song with that theme. Call it "Everything is Fail".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Yep. Where you been?
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...what? Please, you have no idea what you're talking about.