TSW is not a niche game.

TheAncient

Been seeing a lot of posts, especially the last day or so, saying TSW is a niche game. That doesn't make sense when you look at it more closely.

Note: I'm not discussing Funcom problems, AoC, GW2, or why TSW has low subs, etc. Also this thread isn't to attack TSW. It's to argue the point as to why TSW is not a niche game.

 

The horror market is massive. Be it books, films, or games the publics endless appetite for shocks, nightmare creatures, blood, and spine tingling screams has never been greater. It's a classic theme that's has been around for centuries and there seems to be no let up in our desire for more. Just on the gaming side horror sales are massive showing just how popular the genre is. Left 4 Dead 2 for example sold two million units in its first two weeks on the Xbox360, with sales of 11 million by May 2011. So there is a big market there for horror in games.

TSW's other main theme is conspiracy theories. Again these are very popular, be it the fiction of Dan Browns efforts or X-Files, to the many conspiracy shows on TV. Oh boy, do we love our conspiracy theories. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories is but one of many popular theories out there which despite concrete evidence is still thought by a substantial number to have been faked. There's more who people believe in that one theory, just in the USA alone, than have subscribed to WoW.

Given the huge popularity of the above it could be argued that TSW is aimed a much larger audience than the standard fare of Dungeons & Dragons type MMOs. If ever there was a game aimed at tapping into the current zeitgeist then TSW has all of the elements required.

TSW is not a niche game.

 

Kyleran

Well it has everything except people who want to play it, which makes out sort of niche don't you think?

Jaedor

I'm not a fan of the horror genre, yet I love TSW. I don't actually find much about TSW that relates to "horror", but since I'm not a fan I probably am completely missing something. :P

dumbo11

Originally posted by TheAncient

Been seeing a lot of posts, especially the last day or so, saying TSW is a niche game. That doesn't make sense when you look at it more closely.

[snip]

Given the huge popularity of the above it could be argued that TSW is aimed a much larger audience than the standard fare of Dungeons & Dragons type MMOs. If ever there was a game aimed at tapping into the current zeitgeist then TSW has all of the elements required.

TSW is not a niche game.

There are many people interested in medieval romance.   But a medieval romance FPS would be a "niche" game.

Within the MMORPG space, the leading genres are medieval fantasy and sci-fi.  Within that market-space TSW is a niche game.

The problem for TSW/marketing is how do they attract people interested in the genre, who aren't currently MMO players.  That's where things don't appear to have worked.

Yakkin

Maybe it's just the fact that I never left Kingsmouth (my only playtime was the 3 day weekend celebration thing), but I didn't see a "Secret World." Everything was kind of out in the open to be honest.

Leethe

Originally posted by Enigmatus
Maybe it's just the fact that I never left Kingsmouth (my only playtime was the 3 day weekend celebration thing), but I didn't see a "Secret World." Everything was kind of out in the open to be honest.

I can sympathize with this sentiment. I personally think Kingsmouth is too big and new players spend too much time there. After a while the spookiness and atmoshere wears off and it just feels like you're stuck in a very depressing zone while you repeat missions for SP and AP.  The (larger) missions are compelling, I didn't mind the combat and I really really enjoyed experimenting with the skill wheel. That is really the best part of the game for me.

I'm still not sure that horror works in an MMO setting. Surprise turns to familiarity too quickly when you see the same visuals over and over again. It's like reading Pet Cemetary but having to go back and read the first few chapters over and over again until you gain enough skills to get to chapter 4. It loses its impact.

This is not a niche genre but I think TSW painted itself into a corner with the way it presents the genre to players. This is a good game that really tried to do something different and I really think it deserves better than what it's getting now.

thark

Originally posted by TheAncient

Been seeing a lot of posts, especially the last day or so, saying TSW is a niche game. That doesn't make sense when you look at it more closely.

Note: I'm not discussing Funcom problems, AoC, GW2, or why TSW has low subs, etc. Also this thread isn't to attack TSW. It's to argue the point as to why TSW is not a niche game.

 

The horror market is massive. Be it books, films, or games the publics endless appetite for shocks, nightmare creatures, blood, and spine tingling screams has never been greater. It's a classic theme that's has been around for centuries and there seems to be no let up in our desire for more. Just on the gaming side horror sales are massive showing just how popular the genre is. Left 4 Dead 2 for example sold two million units in its first two weeks on the Xbox360, with sales of 11 million by May 2011. So there is a big market there for horror in games.

TSW's other main theme is conspiracy theories. Again these are very popular, be it the fiction of Dan Browns efforts or X-Files, to the many conspiracy shows on TV. Oh boy, do we love our conspiracy theories. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories is but one of many popular theories out there which despite concrete evidence is still thought by a substantial number to have been faked. There's more who people believe in that one theory, just in the USA alone, than have subscribed to WoW.

Given the huge popularity of the above it could be argued that TSW is aimed a much larger audience than the standard fare of Dungeons & Dragons type MMOs. If ever there was a game aimed at tapping into the current zeitgeist then TSW has all of the elements required.

TSW is not a niche game.

 

 I agree..

This in itself is a huge genre..

But..Its' not tied to any particular IP.. Like King's books or  HP Lovecraft or Brown..It's inspired by those authors etc. A new IP boxed in between  major releases of 2 dominating kiddie games  that already has established itself on the market before.

I think thats the biggest reason TSW failed to attract more players, The game is GREAT, the setting is GREAT, the story is GREAT, If more players will be given a chance to atually try TSW it could grow beyond niche.

fallenlords

Horror as a market is massive, but Funcom decided to make a niche game.  For a start they kept referencing H.P.Lovecraft, now lovecraftian horror is it's own sub genre of horror that is not to everyone's taste.  It is more supernatural, weird tales - not blood guts and gore which is popular today.   They also went on about conspiracies and secret societies ,which in the era of Dan Brown 2003+ was all the rage but they have sort of missed the boat in their timing. 

 

Then they decide not to have traditional classes and levels, which might put people off especially when they can see no real innovation.   They included a cash shop which is a no-no to the purist MMO fans among us regardless of what is being sold.  It got a PEGI 16 rating in the UK, so in terms of being a 'horror' game nobody is going to expect much in terms of actual horror. 

 

At the end of the day they took no risks, they played it safe and they ended up with something that does not appeal to a mass audience.   They just don't have their finger on the pulse of gaming at all.   TSW is a niche game because Funcom made it that way.

maji

Needs a longer free trial duraion. Two days ain't enough, unless you have no job, family or responsibilities of any kind.

Nikkita

TSW is niche because of its game design and section of Horror they decided to use for their game. H.P lovecraft is a niche when it comes to horror genre. And since we don't have any other horror MMOS so why isn't TSW a niche MMO?

Maybe when we see same amount of horror titles in MMOS as you see in high and low fantasy settigs, you can say TSW isn't niche.

grapevine

Originally posted by maji
Needs a longer free trial duraion. Two days ain't enough, unless you have no job, family or responsibilities of any kind.

 

Its 5 days.  3 days + 2 more if you complete 30 quests.

Thillian

It doesn't matter how well is genre popular in books, films or whatever, it's a different audience than video games players. The most popular movies are family movies, pretentous dramas and stupid comedies, but I guess they wouldnt really sell good as online video games.

Among PC players, especially online crowd, the most popular theme is fantasy undoubtedly. Horror is not even close. It sure has its fans (like me), but it's a minority - niche.

On the top of that, add things like no level progression, no classes, fairly complex skill system and investigation missions.

Nikkita

Originally posted by Thillian

It doesn't matter how well is genre popular in books, films or whatever, it's a different audience than video games players. The most popular movies are family movies and pretentous comedies, but I guess they wouldnt really sell good as online video games.

Among PC players, especially online crowd, the most popular theme is fantasy undoubtedly. Horror is not even close. It sure has its fans (like me), but it's a minority - niche.

On the top of that, add things like no level progression, no classes, fairly complex skill system and investigation missions.

Horror is popular yes but if TSW went with more of Stephen King vibe it wouldn't be that niche but they went with H.P lovecraft which makes TSW a niche horror MMO.

Eir_S

I'm a pretty big horror fan, but the only thing I found scary about TSW was the combat.

And yes, it is a niche title or it would probably be selling more.  Maybe a lot of horror fans are not also MMO fans?  I couldn't say.

Caldrin

I still think TSW is the best themepark mmorpg on the market at the moment.. its not for everyone because of the setting and you have to think abotu what you do on some of the quests.. a lot of people jsut want to blast through everything and get to end game as fast as possible.. TSW is not for those people and thats why its niche..

Seelinnikoi

Originally posted by Kyleran
Well it has everything except people who want to play it, which makes out sort of niche don't you think?

Touche!

paul43

TSW seem to be more casual oriented than most other games, I'm guessing that the casual guys who may be intrested in such a game don't want to pay subscription because they play so rarely. Maybe when the game goes F2P they will find a new and bigger group of customers. With only 80.000 subscribers it can't be long untill the game goes F2P.

Loktofeit

Originally posted by TheAncient

The horror market is massive. Be it books, films, or games the publics endless appetite for shocks, nightmare creatures, blood, and spine tingling screams has never been greater.

What works for passive entertainment doesn't necessarily work for interactive entertainment, especially in a multi-user environment.

 

If we define niche as catering to a distinct segment, then saying it is in the horror genre, pretty much defines it as niche.

If we define niche as catering to a narrow segment, then saying it is in the horror genre (if 'horror' does exist, it wasn't present in the first 12 hours of my gameplay) pretty much defines it as niche.

 

I don't think you really thought this through.

arieste

Originally posted by TheAncient

Been seeing a lot of posts, especially the last day or so, saying TSW is a niche game. That doesn't make sense when you look at it more closely.

Note: I'm not discussing Funcom problems, AoC, GW2, or why TSW has low subs, etc. Also this thread isn't to attack TSW. It's to argue the point as to why TSW is not a niche game.

 

The horror market is massive. Be it books, films, or games the publics endless appetite for shocks, nightmare creatures, blood, and spine tingling screams has never been greater. It's a classic theme that's has been around for centuries and there seems to be no let up in our desire for more. Just on the gaming side horror sales are massive showing just how popular the genre is. Left 4 Dead 2 for example sold two million units in its first two weeks on the Xbox360, with sales of 11 million by May 2011. So there is a big market there for horror in games.

TSW's other main theme is conspiracy theories. Again these are very popular, be it the fiction of Dan Browns efforts or X-Files, to the many conspiracy shows on TV. Oh boy, do we love our conspiracy theories. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories is but one of many popular theories out there which despite concrete evidence is still thought by a substantial number to have been faked. There's more who people believe in that one theory, just in the USA alone, than have subscribed to WoW.

Given the huge popularity of the above it could be argued that TSW is aimed a much larger audience than the standard fare of Dungeons & Dragons type MMOs. If ever there was a game aimed at tapping into the current zeitgeist then TSW has all of the elements required.

TSW is not a niche game.

 

Anything that is "genre" is pretty much "niche" to begin with.   Within MMO gaming specifically, the vast majority of games are Fantasy.  Anything not-fantasy will immediately be niche just because it's not aimed at the majority.  

 

We may love our conspiracy theories and sci-fi, but let me remind you that the X-Files, along with every single half-decent sci-fi show from the past 15 years has been prematurely cancelled or ended after a short run.     Hell, even Star Trek got cancelled.

 

It's true that TSW has a greater potential to attract those that aren't into D&D type fantasy.   However, I would guess that the pool of people that aren't into D&D type fantasy but still enjoy RPGs is actually quite small.  (This could be partly due to the fact that RPGs are basically rooted in D&D historically-speaking).  

 

 

 

 

FuryV

Originally posted by Kyleran
Well it has everything except people who want to play it, which makes out sort of niche don't you think?

LOL.  Made my day, thank you.

Dahkot72

Originally posted by Kyleran
Well it has everything except people who want to play it, which makes out sort of niche don't you think?

 

All that needs to be said.

 

 

ktanner3

It's a niche game because the players that like this genre tend to prefer fantasy. They like their magic kingdoms filled with weird looking people and crazy spells. Any game that doesn't have that type setting tends to be the little game on the totem pole. Any developer that attempts to break that mold should keep their expectations in check.

This game is also very hard to play at times and requires a bit of thinking, which is too much for the mass audience. They like their games easy without much thought in the process. 

These two things combined are why TSW will always be a niche game. And by the way, I like TSW and could care less about which games have the most players as I don't judge what to play by that criteria.

Valua

It is niche in the MMO genre, where horror/conspiricies aren't popular.

TheLizardbones

Niche doesn't mean small, it means a specific audience. TSW does target a specific audience. It targets the Literary Horror/Conspiracy market. There might not be that many people who would consider themselves primarily Horror/Conspiracy buffs. Rather, they do read Horror or Conspiracy books, but they primarily read SciFi/Fantasy books. They may not even play video games so the people who would be the target audience never even try the game.

But I think it is by definition a niche game.

Thenextbigthing

Originally posted by Eir_S

I'm a pretty big horror fan, but the only thing I found scary about TSW was the combat.

And yes, it is a niche title or it would probably be selling more.  Maybe a lot of horror fans are not also MMO fans?  I couldn't say.

 

I'm also a big horror fan, I teach horror genre and film making for Film Studies, and i've been into horror movies since my first betamax video nasties of the early 80s. I'm also a big fan of Lovecraft and read pretty much everything, played CoC pen and paper regularly since Chaosium brought it out, and the concept of solving mmo puzzles via the internet in a kind of LARP way really appealed to me. I'm an mmo playing horror fan so to all intents and purposes I am the niche audience this game is aimed at, but after playing beta and a month I wandered away and didn't go back.

 

So maybe it isn't just that this is a niche game, maybe it's also not keeping hold of the niche audience it's trying to attract?

rpgalon

Originally posted by Thenextbigthing

Originally posted by Eir_S

I'm a pretty big horror fan, but the only thing I found scary about TSW was the combat.

And yes, it is a niche title or it would probably be selling more.  Maybe a lot of horror fans are not also MMO fans?  I couldn't say.

 

I'm also a big horror fan, I teach horror genre and film making for Film Studies, and i've been into horror movies since my first betamax video nasties of the early 80s. I'm also a big fan of Lovecraft and read pretty much everything, played CoC pen and paper regularly since Chaosium brought it out, and the concept of solving mmo puzzles via the internet in a kind of LARP way really appealed to me. I'm an mmo playing horror fan so to all intents and purposes I am the niche audience this game is aimed at, but after playing beta and a month I wandered away and didn't go back.

 

So maybe it isn't just that this is a niche game, maybe it's also not keeping hold of the niche audience it's trying to attract?

TSW is not a horror game, the Devs have said this more than one time, IT IS NOT A HORROR GAME.