Originally posted by worldalpha You'll never be able to please everyone.
I agree with this part. Which is something game makers don't seem to understand. Instead, they play follow the trend and expect to get all gamers to their one game. It won't happen. Pick an audience. Make the game for that audience. Profit. And for god's sake, get off the pedastals and talk to us. We'll both be better off for it.
After 60 sec you are lvl 10 , you got a mount and all, in fact the only thing you do is accepting the quest and the game do everything for you. That a game for YOU. no joke there..
That even more easymode play like in Soul of the Guardian is where I think we are heading. MMO's are turning into games where all you will need is movement keys and a click to hit button.
You're not a hero if the villains / enemy are pathetic
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I would call it "the customer is always right". If devs want my business, do it so that i like it. If not, i walk.
It is a free world. I don't see why my entertainment should be shackled by other people's ideals.
As you shackle down the entertainment of others with your ideas, and gloat when you "win."
I don't want to infringe on your entertainment, I just want you to stop pissing on mine like an incontinent poodle.
No matter what i do, i probably am not going to change the market. So how is a little discussion on a forum "shackle down the entertainment" of others. I certainly have no qualms about speaking about MY preference and i certainly do not have any power to stop YOU from doing the same.
There are ALWAYS alternatives. MMOs are not the only entertainment out there. Heck, they are not the only GAMES out there.
Sure they are - once you've stripped the word of enough meaning, so that everything is an MMO if you say it is. Which is where you're going.
Not me. The market. If games like WOW, DCUO, DDO, ... which ARE considered MMO by the industry, and players, turn into lobby-based co-op games, who am I to argue with the label?
Personally i don't care about what you call them .. but these are games being discussed here on this forum, and MMORPG is as good as a label as anything else.
Originally posted by Lethargic_Synapse God forbid rewards take effort to obtain.
I have no problem with fun efffort like fighting. But please spare me of the trivial grunt work like mapping, or walking to the destination for 10 min.
Those are not challenges. Those grunt work.
And God forbid if entertainment is actually fun and not like the real world.
Originally posted by Lethargic_Synapse God forbid rewards take effort to obtain.
I have no problem with fun efffort like fighting. But please spare me of the trivial grunt work like mapping, or walking to the destination for 10 min.
Those are not challenges. Those grunt work.
And God forbid if entertainment is actually fun and not like the real world.
The problem is, people like you see no room for ANY games to have those options. Some people don't like Civilization 5, but they don't want the game to not be made just because it's not their style. Now you have people like the OP who come charging in and complain that something isn't the way they like it in a particular game so it must be wrong. Are you guys really so ignorant to think that all MMO's are bad if they aren't catered to you?
This whole thread is stupid anyways as the devs DONT listen to the hardcore crowd. That is why there is barely any griding, and games like GW2 and TSW are stupidly easy. You guys would cry and possibly have a brain aneurysm if you played any of the old-school mmo's. It took me quite a few months to max out skills in UO. Today, I am lucky if it takes me a month max.
Closing note, your version of entertainment isn't going to directly reflect someone elses. So stop trying to make all the games the same. Its a good thing you ass-hats don't regulate cars otherwise we'd all be driving a Toyota Prius instead of other cars as they are "too fast for me" or "make too much noise when accelerating" or even "convertibles are bad so no one should have them".
They should have MMORPGs that cater to the aforementioned "make it harder" crowd. The only problem is, there are many more paying customers that want their hands held while they play their games. This is why unless it's a Kickstarter situation or something similar, I don't see a good, solid, difficult and group play required MMO happening for a long, long time. I'm not saying to make playing the game solo entirely impossible-but definitely not as easy as it is nowadays. I think a harder game that encourages group dynamic requirements in order to achieve ANY symbol of status is preferable, but that's my opinion.
Give me a modern-day UO or EQ1 any day. (Devs interested in Kickstarter, take note!)
I do, however, see the place and need for MMOs that cater to the "teddy bear" crowd also. I just don't want that to be the only industry standard anymore (though I'm not blind to the fact that it's not likely to happen).
Originally posted by Lethargic_Synapse God forbid rewards take effort to obtain.
I have no problem with fun efffort like fighting. But please spare me of the trivial grunt work like mapping, or walking to the destination for 10 min.
Those are not challenges. Those grunt work.
And God forbid if entertainment is actually fun and not like the real world.
The problem is, people like you see no room for ANY games to have those options. Some people don't like Civilization 5, but they don't want the game to not be made just because it's not their style. Now you have people like the OP who come charging in and complain that something isn't the way they like it in a particular game so it must be wrong. Are you guys really so ignorant to think that all MMO's are bad if they aren't catered to you?
This whole thread is stupid anyways as the devs DONT listen to the hardcore crowd. That is why there is barely any griding, and games like GW2 and TSW are stupidly easy. You guys would cry and possibly have a brain aneurysm if you played any of the old-school mmo's. It took me quite a few months to max out skills in UO. Today, I am lucky if it takes me a month max.
Closing note, your version of entertainment isn't going to directly reflect someone elses. So stop trying to make all the games the same. Its a good thing you ass-hats don't regulate cars otherwise we'd all be driving a Toyota Prius instead of other cars as they are "too fast for me" or "make too much noise when accelerating" or even "convertibles are bad so no one should have them".
Now you are putting words into my mouth. Frankly i really don't care if those games exist or not. Surely i am not going to play games i do not like, but hey, I don't see a problem if they exist. Now i wouldn't hesitate to point out how much i dislike them, or whether they are popular, but certainly i care less if devs are making them. I don't actively want to eliminate them.
They are just not that important. Just like i will never read a romantic novel. I may make fun of them during a conservation, but it is not like i loath their existence.
Bottom line is most of us say MMO's should be harder and those that think they are fine are still posting on here and not playing their fabulous ezMMO's. So somthing is wrong at the mill.
Originally posted by Scot Bottom line is most of us say MMO's should be harder and those that think they are fine are still posting on here and not playing their fabulous ezMMO's. So somthing is wrong at the mill.
Their games don't have a sub and they can just buy their way through the game. They don't have to play it to reach the end.
Originally posted by Scot Bottom line is most of us say MMO's should be harder and those that think they are fine are still posting on here and not playing their fabulous ezMMO's. So somthing is wrong at the mill.
What are you smoking? You play your games 24/7? Posting here took only a little time. You don't see me post here that often durnig the weekends when i play games, do you? Nor much in the evening.
You sound like there is only one entertainment activity. That is just absurb. I play games, watch movie, tv, anime, read novels, surf and post on forums. That means i don't like my video games? Give me a break.
Exact definitions of a game aside (who really cares?), games ARE there to be fun. However, a lot of people don't find today's MMOs fun past the first month of ownership because they're too easy. This was my point earlier. Like I said there are a lot of people who prefer easy games, and that's fine for them. But there are already a HUGE number of MMOs catering to this crowd (because they seem to be the majority), and not really many catering to the opposite side that prefers a challenge. This is just like in real life where you have type A personalities, and people that just don't quite desire to be up to the same standard.
I would call it "the customer is always right". If devs want my business, do it so that i like it. If not, i walk.
It is a free world. I don't see why my entertainment should be shackled by other people's ideals.
As you shackle down the entertainment of others with your ideas, and gloat when you "win."
I don't want to infringe on your entertainment, I just want you to stop pissing on mine like an incontinent poodle.
No matter what i do, i probably am not going to change the market. So how is a little discussion on a forum "shackle down the entertainment" of others. I certainly have no qualms about speaking about MY preference and i certainly do not have any power to stop YOU from doing the same.
There are ALWAYS alternatives. MMOs are not the only entertainment out there. Heck, they are not the only GAMES out there.
Sure they are - once you've stripped the word of enough meaning, so that everything is an MMO if you say it is. Which is where you're going.
Not me. The market. If games like WOW, DCUO, DDO, ... which ARE considered MMO by the industry, and players, turn into lobby-based co-op games, who am I to argue with the label? Personally i don't care about what you call them .. but these are games being discussed here on this forum, and MMORPG is as good as a label as anything else.
Actually, no it's not. If they become lobby-based co-op games, then that becomes a better (ie. more descriptive, less misleading) label for them.
Just like when you have a box of donuts, calling it a "box of donuts" is a much better label than calling it a "box of cats."
(And the market is full of idiots. If this were not so, the nigerian scam would not have ever been profitable; yet it still is.)
I would call it "the customer is always right". If devs want my business, do it so that i like it. If not, i walk.
It is a free world. I don't see why my entertainment should be shackled by other people's ideals.
As you shackle down the entertainment of others with your ideas, and gloat when you "win."
I don't want to infringe on your entertainment, I just want you to stop pissing on mine like an incontinent poodle.
No matter what i do, i probably am not going to change the market. So how is a little discussion on a forum "shackle down the entertainment" of others. I certainly have no qualms about speaking about MY preference and i certainly do not have any power to stop YOU from doing the same.
There are ALWAYS alternatives. MMOs are not the only entertainment out there. Heck, they are not the only GAMES out there.
Sure they are - once you've stripped the word of enough meaning, so that everything is an MMO if you say it is. Which is where you're going.
Not me. The market. If games like WOW, DCUO, DDO, ... which ARE considered MMO by the industry, and players, turn into lobby-based co-op games, who am I to argue with the label? Personally i don't care about what you call them .. but these are games being discussed here on this forum, and MMORPG is as good as a label as anything else.
Actually, no it's not. If they become lobby-based co-op games, then that becomes a better (ie. more descriptive, less misleading) label for them.
Just like when you have a box of donuts, calling it a "box of donuts" is a much better label than calling it a "box of cats."
(And the market is full of idiots. If this were not so, the nigerian scam would not have ever been profitable; yet it still is.)
Call me when you get everyone at gamestop, IGN, Metacritics, and even this site to change MMO to "lobby-based co-op" games. Until then, i will just use the common label.
I really don't care about semantics ... but i do use a term by its common usage.
I am going to try to keep this short as we all have such great MMO’s or other leisure activities to get back to.
You are never going to see the changes that are being made to MMO’s and gaming use negative phraseology. So MMO’s and lobby-based co-op are not going to get used in the same sentence. But that is the way we are heading, they just spin the wording so it sounds good.
This is just marketing, they use F2P when the games are not free. Free transfers as an excuse for not announcing server closures. The in game tools like LFD and WvW gameplay do not have a bad image as yet, so they are used in MMO’s. Calling something Lobby gameplay has bad connotations but that’s what LFD and WvW is pushing us towards.
Fragmented, non open world, instant travel MMO’s. Lobby games by any other name.
In another thread I mentioned that I have an illness that has affected both my motor skills and aggressiveness. I have a real problem with timely button crunching and mousing, and the disease has caused me to be emotionally fretful about fighting generally. Still, I have managed to get by, even though I don't enjoy it very much. The last new MMO I played for any length was SWTOR, where I actually reached level cap with a number of classes.
First, to overcome my physical and emotional limitations I made a habit of studying online class guides so I was reasonably assured of making good choices in the skill tree.
Second, I bought a Naga Razor, which allowed me setup macros for varying circumstances, thereby overcoming my physical limitations.
Also, I avoided squads with a passion. Squads affect me emotionally because I worry about letting mates down, and others' tendancy to rush through instances, which really upsets me to the point that I want to logoff immediately.
Finally, I would grind until I was over-leveled, which later made my quests a good deal easier.
Some may disapprove of my strategy, but until they've tried playing with hands and fingers that don't always respond they don't get the depth of my problem.
Coincidentally, I've since had to give up on several MMOs because I simply can't deal with the stress. But I love online gaming and I'm still hopeful of finding something that meets my diminishing capabilities.
Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.
I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!
Grrrr
How the hell did you die a lot on TSW ? People like you are the ones that I am fed up of, I mean come on go back to wow if you want easy, some of us like to be challenged, to have goals and to be tested by a game, I died a few times when first playing TSW and realising I needed to use my brain, this actually makes me think GW will be a good seconday mmo for me and wife.
You are the kind of people that cause developers to slowly downgrade the challenge of each new mmo and it makes me and I believe a lot of others sick.
Comments
I agree with this part. Which is something game makers don't seem to understand. Instead, they play follow the trend and expect to get all gamers to their one game. It won't happen. Pick an audience. Make the game for that audience. Profit. And for god's sake, get off the pedastals and talk to us. We'll both be better off for it.
There a game for you people who think mmo these day are too hard.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/854/Soul-of-Guardian.html
Auto-travel
Auto-fight
Auto-equip
Auto-gather
Auto- everything
After 60 sec you are lvl 10 , you got a mount and all, in fact the only thing you do is accepting the quest and the game do everything for you. That a game for YOU. no joke there..
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
WOW does. DDO does .. i am sure there are others too.
Any Permadeath guilds around yet?
The game is no challenge due to such a tiny death penalty. Oh you died? there there it's ok, just try again until you get it.
I have no problem with fun efffort like fighting. But please spare me of the trivial grunt work like mapping, or walking to the destination for 10 min.
Those are not challenges. Those grunt work.
And God forbid if entertainment is actually fun and not like the real world.
The problem is, people like you see no room for ANY games to have those options. Some people don't like Civilization 5, but they don't want the game to not be made just because it's not their style. Now you have people like the OP who come charging in and complain that something isn't the way they like it in a particular game so it must be wrong. Are you guys really so ignorant to think that all MMO's are bad if they aren't catered to you?
This whole thread is stupid anyways as the devs DONT listen to the hardcore crowd. That is why there is barely any griding, and games like GW2 and TSW are stupidly easy. You guys would cry and possibly have a brain aneurysm if you played any of the old-school mmo's. It took me quite a few months to max out skills in UO. Today, I am lucky if it takes me a month max.
Closing note, your version of entertainment isn't going to directly reflect someone elses. So stop trying to make all the games the same. Its a good thing you ass-hats don't regulate cars otherwise we'd all be driving a Toyota Prius instead of other cars as they are "too fast for me" or "make too much noise when accelerating" or even "convertibles are bad so no one should have them".
They should have MMORPGs that cater to the aforementioned "make it harder" crowd. The only problem is, there are many more paying customers that want their hands held while they play their games. This is why unless it's a Kickstarter situation or something similar, I don't see a good, solid, difficult and group play required MMO happening for a long, long time. I'm not saying to make playing the game solo entirely impossible-but definitely not as easy as it is nowadays. I think a harder game that encourages group dynamic requirements in order to achieve ANY symbol of status is preferable, but that's my opinion.
Give me a modern-day UO or EQ1 any day. (Devs interested in Kickstarter, take note!)
I do, however, see the place and need for MMOs that cater to the "teddy bear" crowd also. I just don't want that to be the only industry standard anymore (though I'm not blind to the fact that it's not likely to happen).
Now you are putting words into my mouth. Frankly i really don't care if those games exist or not. Surely i am not going to play games i do not like, but hey, I don't see a problem if they exist. Now i wouldn't hesitate to point out how much i dislike them, or whether they are popular, but certainly i care less if devs are making them. I don't actively want to eliminate them.
They are just not that important. Just like i will never read a romantic novel. I may make fun of them during a conservation, but it is not like i loath their existence.
Their games don't have a sub and they can just buy their way through the game. They don't have to play it to reach the end.
What are you smoking? You play your games 24/7? Posting here took only a little time. You don't see me post here that often durnig the weekends when i play games, do you? Nor much in the evening.
You sound like there is only one entertainment activity. That is just absurb. I play games, watch movie, tv, anime, read novels, surf and post on forums. That means i don't like my video games? Give me a break.
Actually, no it's not. If they become lobby-based co-op games, then that becomes a better (ie. more descriptive, less misleading) label for them.
Just like when you have a box of donuts, calling it a "box of donuts" is a much better label than calling it a "box of cats."
(And the market is full of idiots. If this were not so, the nigerian scam would not have ever been profitable; yet it still is.)
Call me when you get everyone at gamestop, IGN, Metacritics, and even this site to change MMO to "lobby-based co-op" games. Until then, i will just use the common label.
I really don't care about semantics ... but i do use a term by its common usage.
I am going to try to keep this short as we all have such great MMO’s or other leisure activities to get back to.
You are never going to see the changes that are being made to MMO’s and gaming use negative phraseology. So MMO’s and lobby-based co-op are not going to get used in the same sentence. But that is the way we are heading, they just spin the wording so it sounds good.
This is just marketing, they use F2P when the games are not free. Free transfers as an excuse for not announcing server closures. The in game tools like LFD and WvW gameplay do not have a bad image as yet, so they are used in MMO’s. Calling something Lobby gameplay has bad connotations but that’s what LFD and WvW is pushing us towards.
Fragmented, non open world, instant travel MMO’s. Lobby games by any other name.
In another thread I mentioned that I have an illness that has affected both my motor skills and aggressiveness. I have a real problem with timely button crunching and mousing, and the disease has caused me to be emotionally fretful about fighting generally. Still, I have managed to get by, even though I don't enjoy it very much. The last new MMO I played for any length was SWTOR, where I actually reached level cap with a number of classes.
First, to overcome my physical and emotional limitations I made a habit of studying online class guides so I was reasonably assured of making good choices in the skill tree.
Second, I bought a Naga Razor, which allowed me setup macros for varying circumstances, thereby overcoming my physical limitations.
Also, I avoided squads with a passion. Squads affect me emotionally because I worry about letting mates down, and others' tendancy to rush through instances, which really upsets me to the point that I want to logoff immediately.
Finally, I would grind until I was over-leveled, which later made my quests a good deal easier.
Some may disapprove of my strategy, but until they've tried playing with hands and fingers that don't always respond they don't get the depth of my problem.
Coincidentally, I've since had to give up on several MMOs because I simply can't deal with the stress. But I love online gaming and I'm still hopeful of finding something that meets my diminishing capabilities.
How the hell did you die a lot on TSW ? People like you are the ones that I am fed up of, I mean come on go back to wow if you want easy, some of us like to be challenged, to have goals and to be tested by a game, I died a few times when first playing TSW and realising I needed to use my brain, this actually makes me think GW will be a good seconday mmo for me and wife.
You are the kind of people that cause developers to slowly downgrade the challenge of each new mmo and it makes me and I believe a lot of others sick.