It also depends what Edition Rules we are using.... hopefully 3 or 3.5 and not 4....
...
Its based on 4e. The setting is post spellplague(100 years after it), same as the 4e Neverwinter campaign pnp book. It seems most content from game itself would be canonical for pnp too.
This game has the potential to be the best mmoRPG ever made, emphasis on the RPG. It's biggest failing is 4th edition, which was complete trash. Normally this would automatically disqualify any D&D game from being great but the videos show exceptional work being done, not to mention the game looks extremely fun to play.
Originally posted by kelarcanus Uh. Does nobody remember Ryzom and the Ryzom Ring? An MMO with player generated content isn't new :P
It's not new, as many have pointed out in the past, but it is a great feature. The power of the feature in this particular game is something to be excited about.
I REALLY hope the Neverwinter Nights modding community gets on board. I have never seen so many awesome mods created by such an astonishing variety of builders. It would just be.....almost too much to handle.
If they really want the NWN modding community to get on-board, they need to find a way to release the Foundry Toolset ahead of time. Bioware did it with NWN1, and Obsidian did it with NWN2. It ensures that there will already be player-generated content from day 1, and lets other people see what regular, average people can do with the tools.
I modded for persistent worlds in both NWN1 & 2, and I'm already writing my story for NWO.
Originally posted by rentantilus Someone has finally stumbled upon the perpetual motion machine for MMOs: Get the customers to create their own content. Bravo!
I know, right? What's the most expensive component of MMO development? Content creation. Let developers give the basic story and create the systems to give players tools to create even more. It's a win-win proposition!
The problem of putting the game in the hands of the players is that, they might just use it be be a-holes (pardon my french).
It's good that they plan to counter exploits, but, NeverWinter will, quite literally, be made or broken by it's community. I really hope for the best myself, don't get me wrong. An mmorpg with a playerbase dedicated to building the world around them, the lore, it's stories. This could be the game for immersion seekers and rp'ers like myself. Even better than a full sandbox. BUT, i will be on full ca{u}tion mode.
Never trust the client. Never put anything on the client. The client is in the hands of the enemy. Never ever ever forget this.
Hyrup's Loophole Law If something can be abused, it will be.
Psychological disinhibition People act like jerks more easily online, because anonymity is intoxicating. It is easier to objectify other people and therefore to treat them badly. The only way to combat this is to get them to empathize more with other players.
------
So, here we have Cryptic (who really aren't half as clever as they think they are IMHO) not only putting the client in the hands of the enemy... but the whole game.
Now, I am sure that in time we will see some real good quality content out of a system like this. But in the mean time we will most likely have to wade through piles of crap. And those piles of crap will drive away a good proportion of the playerbase in the first 3 months (or less)
Yeah, those who remember the craft of Role Playing and Dungeon Mastering will love this title and in the end will build a tight (if somewhat small) community... because there aren't that many people who know that craft left.
MMO players - as a group - are arseholes. They will - as a group - happily drive other players from a game for "LOLz" even if it means destroying a game in the process. We have all seen it time and time again.
As always - I will wait and see - but Cryptic don't have a good history and I really doubt their design team is up to the task of thinking through all the potential abuses and cutting them off.
I'm picking that 6-12 months after release (when the majority of the MMO crowd has gangbanged this title and moved on) this game will have a solid (but small) community making good content. Unfortunately for Cryptic - accountants don't like to wait 6 - 12 months for a modest revenue...
with all the goof things in the game, there is one thing that outweighs them by tenfold : PWE. i am staying far away from PWE stuffs. if Turbine would published this game, i would definitely play but not PWE
Originally posted by rentantilus Someone has finally stumbled upon the perpetual motion machine for MMOs: Get the customers to create their own content. Bravo!
I know, right? What's the most expensive component of MMO development? Content creation. Let developers give the basic story and create the systems to give players tools to create even more. It's a win-win proposition!
The problem of putting the game in the hands of the players is that, they might just use it be be a-holes (pardon my french).
....
So, here we have Cryptic (who really aren't half as clever as they think they are IMHO) not only putting the client in the hands of the enemy... but the whole game.
Now, I am sure that in time we will see some real good quality content out of a system like this. But in the mean time we will most likely have to wade through piles of crap.
Just a slight addition, based on STO Foundry: they don't put anything in the hands of the "enemy", so while there could be a-holes in the playerbase, you won't have to wade through no piles at all
I guess, just as in STO, Cryptic will put the user content in-game, meaning there will be a pretty decent filter which will hold back the crap, farming-based or just simply lame content.
Edit: maybe not the lame ones, there's a few in STO as well... If they don't break any rules, they can sneak in-game. It's up to the players then, to low rate the lame missions, so they could sink to the bottom of the list, where they belong.
Originally posted by JimmyYO This game has the potential to be the best mmoRPG ever made, emphasis on the RPG. It's biggest failing is 4th edition, which was complete trash. Normally this would automatically disqualify any D&D game from being great but the videos show exceptional work being done, not to mention the game looks extremely fun to play.
I agree with your first statment, anyway.
I've played pnp D&D since the mid-70s and I think 4e is the best version ever, way better than the utterly unbalanced 3.x
So, here we have Cryptic (who really aren't half as clever as they think they are IMHO) not only putting the client in the hands of the enemy... but the whole game.
Now, I am sure that in time we will see some real good quality content out of a system like this. But in the mean time we will most likely have to wade through piles of crap. And those piles of crap will drive away a good proportion of the playerbase in the first 3 months (or less)
....
They have rating system with advanced search. The same system which is used by Youtube "to wade through piles of crap."
Based on gameplay footage I'm assuming it's not a skill based game like Neverwinter Nights 1 or 2 is. That alone disheartens me, I really hope I won't have to pass on yet another Dungeons and Dragons online game.
I REALLY hope the Neverwinter Nights modding community gets on board. I have never seen so many awesome mods created by such an astonishing variety of builders. It would just be.....almost too much to handle.
Cant speak for the NWN modders but I can say a small group of Oblivion/Skyrim modders will be playing ;-) Just remember though, it will NOT be like modding those games...we wont have the tools to be making new spells, animations or creating armor from our own meshes...we will be limited to the items/props they give us. So just expect decent content based on what they give us.
Originally posted by JimmyYO This game has the potential to be the best mmoRPG ever made, emphasis on the RPG. It's biggest failing is 4th edition, which was complete trash. Normally this would automatically disqualify any D&D game from being great but the videos show exceptional work being done, not to mention the game looks extremely fun to play.
I agree with your first statment, anyway.
I've played pnp D&D since the mid-70s and I think 4e is the best version ever, way better than the utterly unbalanced 3.x
To each his own.
Yeah, as an old D&D player, I have to agree. Though 4th Ed went a little to far in the return to a miniatures/MMO style, it was at least coherent and organized, unlike the murky, haphazard design of the previous D&D editions.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
While I understand the desire, both financially and artistically, to control the additions to the game via their foundry, I am not that fond of giving Cryptic that power.
It will keep out some crap, it will also keep out anything that might be too edgy for them.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Apparently no one here has played STO. that will show you just what the foundry is really about, it's not about innovation, it's about creating a game with very little content and then allowing the community to do your job for you. That's hardly innovative.
Good job Cryptic. This is really bringing the traditional DnD experience to the MMO genre. Be a Dungeon Master! Its a fantastic idea.
How is this a new feature? This has been in every Neverwinter Nights game.
And this game is barely an MMO. Not more so than any of the previous NW games, which also weren't MMOs. Guess they slapped the moniker on it to get more buzz.
It will keep out some crap, it will also keep out anything that might be too edgy for them.
If you are talking about UGC content being removed I had a similar concern so I asked in their official forums, and the devs replied that only the content violating EULA will be removed. Rest even if content has poorest rating, it will still be there to play. Also it seems their reviewers would be volunteers from normal users but I am not too sure on this last statement.
This game has, for me, several major selling points:
(1) Its IP. D&D/Neverwinter as a setting has a huge amount of interest and potential.
(2) The Foundry. I really look forward to this aspect of the game.
(3) Mercs/Heroes. This is big with me, but I have not heard much about this in any previews. I like having the option to group with players OR solo (using NPCs) OR play with groups that have both players and NPCs (as I could in Guild Wars 1). I really hope this feature is still part of Neverwinter's game plan. If it isn't, my interest in the game will lessen considerably.
Hm, aren't 90% of all Skyrim mods useless trash and buggy? So why should I be so excited about that? Not so sure. Might be good, might be bad. I hope to see a considerable part of Faerun 4e world, it has changed quite a lot. Alas "Neverwinter" sounds more like a very tiny area with many instanced dungeons. Hmmm.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Will the modding community actually embrace it though?
And will Cryptic make a core game that is actually fun?
Star Trek's ground combat, for instance, is not fun.
Champions Online is... marginally fun.
Even with custom missions, those two games aren't all that fun at their core.
I'm still not sold on this idea, even if its it is a sound concept. I'm fine with customers making game content. I'm just not confident in the developers actually developing a fun game.
This sounds great but how complex can it get? Is there a way to change mob mechanics and add in 'boss' type scenarios that require multiple people to accomplish?
Comments
Its based on 4e. The setting is post spellplague(100 years after it), same as the 4e Neverwinter campaign pnp book. It seems most content from game itself would be canonical for pnp too.
Foundry Feedback | Foundry Tutorials
Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games
If they really want the NWN modding community to get on-board, they need to find a way to release the Foundry Toolset ahead of time. Bioware did it with NWN1, and Obsidian did it with NWN2. It ensures that there will already be player-generated content from day 1, and lets other people see what regular, average people can do with the tools.
I modded for persistent worlds in both NWN1 & 2, and I'm already writing my story for NWO.
4th ed...WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!?????
*sniff*
"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!"
Exactly.
To (selectively) quote Raph Koster: http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/laws.shtml
Never trust the client.
Never put anything on the client. The client is in the hands of the enemy. Never ever ever forget this.
Hyrup's Loophole Law
If something can be abused, it will be.
Psychological disinhibition
People act like jerks more easily online, because anonymity is intoxicating. It is easier to objectify other people and therefore to treat them badly. The only way to combat this is to get them to empathize more with other players.
------
So, here we have Cryptic (who really aren't half as clever as they think they are IMHO) not only putting the client in the hands of the enemy... but the whole game.
Now, I am sure that in time we will see some real good quality content out of a system like this. But in the mean time we will most likely have to wade through piles of crap. And those piles of crap will drive away a good proportion of the playerbase in the first 3 months (or less)
Yeah, those who remember the craft of Role Playing and Dungeon Mastering will love this title and in the end will build a tight (if somewhat small) community... because there aren't that many people who know that craft left.
MMO players - as a group - are arseholes. They will - as a group - happily drive other players from a game for "LOLz" even if it means destroying a game in the process. We have all seen it time and time again.
As always - I will wait and see - but Cryptic don't have a good history and I really doubt their design team is up to the task of thinking through all the potential abuses and cutting them off.
I'm picking that 6-12 months after release (when the majority of the MMO crowd has gangbanged this title and moved on) this game will have a solid (but small) community making good content. Unfortunately for Cryptic - accountants don't like to wait 6 - 12 months for a modest revenue...
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Just a slight addition, based on STO Foundry: they don't put anything in the hands of the "enemy", so while there could be a-holes in the playerbase, you won't have to wade through no piles at all
I guess, just as in STO, Cryptic will put the user content in-game, meaning there will be a pretty decent filter which will hold back the crap, farming-based or just simply lame content.
Edit: maybe not the lame ones, there's a few in STO as well... If they don't break any rules, they can sneak in-game. It's up to the players then, to low rate the lame missions, so they could sink to the bottom of the list, where they belong.
I agree with your first statment, anyway.
I've played pnp D&D since the mid-70s and I think 4e is the best version ever, way better than the utterly unbalanced 3.x
To each his own.
They have rating system with advanced search. The same system which is used by Youtube "to wade through piles of crap."
Foundry Feedback | Foundry Tutorials
I liked this idea..... when Valve did the same thing LONG AGO..
Cant speak for the NWN modders but I can say a small group of Oblivion/Skyrim modders will be playing ;-) Just remember though, it will NOT be like modding those games...we wont have the tools to be making new spells, animations or creating armor from our own meshes...we will be limited to the items/props they give us. So just expect decent content based on what they give us.
Delete
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Yeah, as an old D&D player, I have to agree. Though 4th Ed went a little to far in the return to a miniatures/MMO style, it was at least coherent and organized, unlike the murky, haphazard design of the previous D&D editions.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
While I understand the desire, both financially and artistically, to control the additions to the game via their foundry, I am not that fond of giving Cryptic that power.
It will keep out some crap, it will also keep out anything that might be too edgy for them.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
How is this a new feature? This has been in every Neverwinter Nights game.
And this game is barely an MMO. Not more so than any of the previous NW games, which also weren't MMOs. Guess they slapped the moniker on it to get more buzz.
If you are talking about UGC content being removed I had a similar concern so I asked in their official forums, and the devs replied that only the content violating EULA will be removed. Rest even if content has poorest rating, it will still be there to play. Also it seems their reviewers would be volunteers from normal users but I am not too sure on this last statement.
Foundry Feedback | Foundry Tutorials
This game has, for me, several major selling points:
(1) Its IP. D&D/Neverwinter as a setting has a huge amount of interest and potential.
(2) The Foundry. I really look forward to this aspect of the game.
(3) Mercs/Heroes. This is big with me, but I have not heard much about this in any previews. I like having the option to group with players OR solo (using NPCs) OR play with groups that have both players and NPCs (as I could in Guild Wars 1). I really hope this feature is still part of Neverwinter's game plan. If it isn't, my interest in the game will lessen considerably.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Will the modding community actually embrace it though?
And will Cryptic make a core game that is actually fun?
Star Trek's ground combat, for instance, is not fun.
Champions Online is... marginally fun.
Even with custom missions, those two games aren't all that fun at their core.
I'm still not sold on this idea, even if its it is a sound concept. I'm fine with customers making game content. I'm just not confident in the developers actually developing a fun game.