FFXI/FFXIV player view / opinion so far of GW2

elm33

Hi all. I'll just open this one up by stating up front that I enjoy forced grouping for general exp gain (not just raids or instanced contant) and miss that in most of the current mmos. Now that that is out of the way. I also like a good focus on crafting. My preference would always be to play in a non-instanced world and non-instanced dungeon. 

So I bought Guild Wars 2 because I have been gameless for a while, completed all the FFXIV content out there, and quit playing FFXI long ago. I have played all the other current MMOs and none of them have had any longevity for me. The last one I purchased prior was SWTOR which I played for 5 days before uninstalling. 

So far I have actually had fun playing GW2. My Pro List:

1. The gfx are good

2. The attention to detail is good on the dev's part

3. The character creation was good

4. The world design is fairly diverse

5. The controls are responsive

6.  The dynamic events have proven to be more fun than the Rift version of this

7. I found the encouragement of players to fight together, even when ungrouped, while all receiving rewards as a positive innovation. This approach allows people to play together without fear of loss of items drops. 

My con list: 

1. Although I like the DE system and ability to always join other players w/o joining them proper, I think it still takes something away from the experience. Nothing builds community like forced grouping. Because of the randomness of players everything kinda feels like a zerg fest. 

2. I miss the character specialization (call it trinity if you want) .. I don't really feel very unique or special in the game, I am my own offense, defense, and support class all in one, further rendering the need for other players moot

3. The game is still full of quests, they are just cloaked in the veil of dynamic content and personal story. 

Overall:

I think this is probably the best quest grinder theme park to come out in recent years. I definitely have enjoyed it more than WoW. However, I guess for me it lacks the things that made me fall in love with MMO's so long ago, i.e. forced grouping for experience, a lack of focus on quest based leveling (favoring party based leveling instead), a lack of focus on character specialization (again favoring more party based-social gaming), etc.. 

I anxiously away the new FFXIV2.0 and hope they don't turn it into a quest grinder mmosoloist game! 

The great thing GW2 has going for it is no sub. As a result I will probably still play it from time to time. If it had a sub, I never would have bought it to begin with and definitely wouldn't be nearly as positive about my experience. 

 

grimm6th

Originally posted by elm33

3. The game is still full of quests, they are just cloaked in the veil of dynamic content and personal story. 

I think this is a case of method of presentation being the issue, not the fact that there are "quests" in the game.  

I think this is probably the best quest grinder theme park to come out in recent years.

I think you might be doing it wrong...

...a lack of focus on quest based leveling (favoring party based leveling instead) ...Parties aren't going to make themselves for you...Thu=is game is totally built around being with other people.  Also, read number seven from your own list.

 

Just a couple of comments on my opinion of some of your opinions.

I'm not going to say anything about your preferences of forced grouping other than to say that most players probably disagree with you and that forcing something isn't always the best way to get things done.  A community can be built, and has been built, without forcing people into pugs.  If you want to see where community is likely playing a part in gameplay, try WvW.

One last thing though...if you are going to being up your gaming history with FFXI and FFXIV, maybe you should say something more than that you played them.

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion, though.

Clocksimus

Originally posted by grimm6th

Originally posted by elm33

3. The game is still full of quests, they are just cloaked in the veil of dynamic content and personal story. 

I think this is a case of method of presentation being the issue, not the fact that there are "quests" in the game.  

I think this is probably the best quest grinder theme park to come out in recent years.

I think you might be doing it wrong...

...a lack of focus on quest based leveling (favoring party based leveling instead) ...Parties aren't going to make themselves for you...Thu=is game is totally built around being with other people.  Also, read number seven from your own list.

 

Just a couple of comments on my opinion of some of your opinions.

I'm not going to say anything about your preferences of forced grouping other than to say that most players probably disagree with you and that forcing something isn't always the best way to get things done.  A community can be built, and has been built, without forcing people into pugs.  If you want to see where community is likely playing a part in gameplay, try WvW.

One last thing though...if you are going to being up your gaming history with FFXI and FFXIV, maybe you should say something more than that you played them.

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion, though.

Why is it always the "you're doing it wrong"  defense  that is thrown at people for having a different point of view?

If DE can be called quests, which they can, if you do DE you are questing.  It is different coat but  based on your point of view they can very much be similiar if not the same.

tyfon

Originally posted by Clocksimus

Why is it always the "you're doing it wrong"  defense  that is thrown at people for having a different point of view?

If DE can be called quests, which they can, if you do DE you are questing.  It is different coat but  based on your point of view they can very much be similiar if not the same.

It's not like ANet stated that you could play the game as you wanted is it?.. oh wait! ..

red_cruiser

When it comes to hearts, I always just grind out whatever aspect of the heart is the least painful to accomplish.  When it comes to DEs, I just beat on whatever else the rest of the zerg is attacking.  I think the lack of more specialized classes hurts the PvP the most and there is way too much ranged AoE.   Characters get like eight abilities, and you could swear that some characters have six powers dedicated to some kind of ranged AoE attack.  I think Guild Wars 2 is the new standard, but I really hope the next five years isn't people trying to make GW2 clones like they previously spent time making WoW clones, because GW2, as exceptional as it is, just doesn't come across as all that interesting.

elm33

Originally posted by grimm6th

 

Just a couple of comments on my opinion of some of your opinions.

I'm not going to say anything about your preferences of forced grouping other than to say that most players probably disagree with you and that forcing something isn't always the best way to get things done.  A community can be built, and has been built, without forcing people into pugs.  If you want to see where community is likely playing a part in gameplay, try WvW.

One last thing though...if you are going to being up your gaming history with FFXI and FFXIV, maybe you should say something more than that you played them.

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion, though.

 

I understand there is a lot of resistance to forced grouping out there because it does make it more challenging to hop on and play for 30 minutes, then split. As a father and husband and corporate automaton I have the time challenges as well so I sympathize. With that said, a game that can basically be played without any grouping is typically played that way, in my experience. Even in others like WoW, or Rift, Age of Conan, and so forth, if a particular quest needs a group, people will do so for that one quest, and thats it, then they split. Post-WoW game design itself simply doesn't encourage grouping because of the root of all evil - quests - . In GW2 solves for the quest vs grouped player conundrum thru the DE's and allowing anyone to join another player at any time without a loss of drop etc, but what it doesn't solve is the general soloist mentality, that having played GW2 - is still very much there. People in DE's are just participating for the DE, then off on their own they go. It feels pretty lonely. 

I understand the WvW comment about people playing together, but that to me is part of a seperate game. I am most interested in leveling up my characters in a non WvW or PvP environment, while still playing, and talking to other players. 

I guess I always thought PUG'ing was fun. I find playing with guild only groups to be tiring and repetitive. It also can easily turn into an exclusive group situation, where you are only participating within the guild community, but not the larger, game community. I dunno I encourage PUGs and think its a great way to meet people. It just doesn't really seem to happen in modern MMOs like it did in the Gen 1/ Gen 2 games. 

I am not sure what more I can say about my history with FFXI and FFXIV. I maxed out all non-crafting jobs in FFXIV thru PUG groups and had a blast doing it. You can look me up, Captain Picard on Durandal. For FFXI, I played from US launch thru chains of promathia (these were the golden years) before level sync, the books (get page x.....) and other nuances led to runing the game. In both of these games, I found that an excellent community was built via server lockin and forced grouping. I have not really been able to find any other modern mmo's that are anywhere close to the same level of community. 

Mikeha

I said in another post that I give Arena Net credit for trying something different but their mistake with this game is that they like every other deveoper forgot what made people fall in love with the mmo genre.

elm33

Originally posted by Mannish
I said in another post that I give Arena Net credit for trying something different but their mistake with this game is that they like every other deveoper forgot what made people fall in love with the mmo genre.

I have to agree. I give ANet credit here too. They did move the bar in a different direction on the post WoW mmo, but still neglected to recall why people started playing mmo's to begin with. 

One thing they could have done in the paradigm they defined was to make mobs in higher level zones unbeatable by one or two players. 

This would have had 3 effects

1. It would strengthen the desire of players to join guilds (particularly players who dislike 'pugs'

2. It would strengthen the desire to create pug groups 

3. It would cause more people to play together outside of groups, and outside of DE. 

Under this system it wouldn't be forced 'grouping' but it would certainly be forced 'you cant play by yourself to succeed'

That I think would be a smart thing for them to look at in future updates.