The main issue is that those of us who appreciate what Vanguard is/was are most likely from the same generation that appreciated EQ1 when it first launched (not a universal statement btw). Back then the idea it would take you literal hours to go from point A to point B was the norm unless you yourself was one of the few classes that could port or you got one (usually purchased) from said class.
I also long for a HUGE world similar if not larger than Vanguard (not interested in EVE as space type combat does not interest me) that like EQ2 is now doing offered the PLAYERS to fill the space void. I know that might sound like all I'm really asking for it a sandbox but I actually appreciate the theme park style both EQ1 and Vanguard so in honestly I'm not.
It seems whenever anyone mentions anything about Vanguard, not matter if it's as specific as simply stating you would like a modern MMO with a world the size of it, many just get hung up on pointing out it's flaws rather than concentrating on the actual subject presented. It's a shame really because the one thing MMO's used to have going for them was the feeling of actually being a different world both in scope and size.
We need more virtual worlds, not corridors with rails and mob-packed "zones" were you can't walk for two seconds without stepping on some generic critter just waiting to get sluaghtered for the next "kill ten X" quest, before you step into some "portal" and magically port into the next corridor.
I hate it when you log in to an MMO and see these amazing landscapes in the distance, only to realize that they're nothing but paint - you can't go anywhere outside of the pre-designed questing rails, you can't explore anything that is not related to the "story". Fuck story! I want to explore for myself and experience a strange and dangerous world full of surprises and unknown encounters.
Fuck fast travel and porting around between instanced boxes! I want to travel the land, find new routes and shortcuts, run into strangers in the wild, discover far-away places that no one else have seen yet... I want to have to plan my travels and I want transportation of goods to mean something. I want to feel that "wow, I made it!" feeling when I finally make it to a safe destination with a backback full of precious loot.
A game that makes a world like VG, with a modern combat system, meaningful oPvP and EVE-styled economics (local banking, player-run logistics and transportation, etc) will have me hooked in no time. I know there are many others who wants the same type of game.
As for the posters spamming the same "I love modern themeparks" propaganda in every thread, just play your games and don't bother posting in threads like this. We already know what you like and don't like. You are the majority here, you're not special, you're already being catered to. You have plenty to choose from, while us virtual world fans have been marginalized in absurdum, in spite of being a rather huge niche - just look at EVE's stable sub numbers.
A smart developer could make a nice profit from our sub-group, if they only hade the balls to try a different apporach than copying the same blueprint over and over and tack a new skin on it.
Has anyone mentioned EVE Online as far as huge and open worlds go?
I also agree that modern MMO players are one of the main reasons why we get instanced worlds. Even GW2 is a step backwards in that direction, and one of its worst aspects, since it has loading zones and it needs a larger world.
WoW's uninstanced overworld was a huge factor to its success. Plus it was so large that people actually felt part of a world.
I think ArcheAge online is the way to, and I hope its world is huge - you can actually travel by ship between continents.
I have been loving the posts to this thread. Big, open, explorable expanses are what I find amazing in a game. Asheron's Call was my first MMO love and I fear nothing but Vanguard has come even remotely close. Honestly, if modern controls were applied to Asheron's Call, I'd probably still be playing. I fear the days of yore will remain just that, but I always hold out hope for games like ArchAge and maybe even ESO. Only time will tell I guess, but I think it's great to keep talking about these things. Perhaps one day someone might finally listen.
Modern controls , I hope you don't mean what the do in GW2, or WOW, etc, because I like the old school type of targeting in games like AC, I can't stand this tab targeting, now a days.
I like that I can dodge magic, I like some twitch based games, Asheron call 1 back in 1998, they had the freedom to walk over mountains so to the OP what rock have you been under?? There are plenty of open world MMO's I see people complain they want this and that, but they do not give smaller companys a chance they all have this kind of stuff, I love smaller companys because its funny to watch people complain and say stuff does not exist when it DOES!!
Because most players don't play MMO to walk around?
A empty big world is not fun to me.
Exactly. I'd love to see a world the size of Vanguard with a content level the size of Skyrim, where you can't walk half a mile without having something to do. Companies won't do that though, it's too labor and cost intensive. I have no interest in wandering around an empty expanse, I want to actually do something.
Vanguard has FAR more content than Skyrim. Easily.
I'm not talking about just content, but concentration of content. Is it packed as tightly as Skyrim or is it spread thin out all over a massive world?
A mixture of both, but all the major gathering points are about 5 minutes from one another, with smaller "side" content in between.
Originally posted by Badaboom GW2 is pretty big. Certainly not zoneless like the chunking of Vanguard. GW2 is the first game that I have played since Vanguard that offered the sense of depth of map though.
The thing is, GW2 world size is actulally pretty small compared to a lot of other games. Why do you fee like its bigger then it really is?
No mounts.
Its amazing how much larger and more expansive a world can be when you dont' have mounts to greatly increase the speed at which you travel around. Sure, you can call it cheating but I actually don't mind neglecting mounts for this sake, particularly if you have an alternate travel way to speed it up. It makes things feel so much bigger and more expansive.
Or to be more specific: I want a world like that. But I want to share it with those who appreciate it - not those who are only there because there's nothing else, because they'll spend their time whining and complaining and begging for the devs to ruin it (for us.) In the ideal, we can have our world and they can have their lobby, and then neither of us is crapping in the other's sandbox.
Has anyone mentioned EVE Online as far as huge and open worlds go?
I also agree that modern MMO players are one of the main reasons why we get instanced worlds. Even GW2 is a step backwards in that direction, and one of its worst aspects, since it has loading zones and it needs a larger world.
WoW's uninstanced overworld was a huge factor to its success. Plus it was so large that people actually felt part of a world.
I think ArcheAge online is the way to, and I hope its world is huge - you can actually travel by ship between continents.
I much prefer instanced worlds and fast travel, so players can jump to the adventure fast.
"feeling being part of the world" get old very fast. Wandering around in a forest that only have minor terrain variations is NOT my idea of fun.
Originally posted by Badaboom The water in vanguard was about the worst in am mmo that I have ever seen. The trees are the best though.
Really?
There''s a lot of trolls and a lot of irrational hatred for Vanguard for some reason. I've noticed it's mostly from the WoW kids that feel threatened or don't understand for some reason.
While i love Vanguard,and i don't know if this has already been suggested,but why don't modern mmorpg games have the world size of Dark and Light.It had it bugs,it was released in an unfinished stated,but still the world of Dark and Light was huge and immersive.15K kilometers not including the sea.
Noone mentions Fallen earth? That world was crazy, even with a car or bike it took FOREVER to get around between towns.
DAOC was pretty big too, remember I took the horse from camelot to lyonesse and went for a damn coffee break. Took like 10 minutes if I recall correctly.
Almnost 20 if you were riding down there to pick up a cool giant to be your Sorc pet and then return to the Frontier, probably 30-40 minutes round trip.
I used to read during the ride, or study my armor builds or craft on my alt accounts while I waited. Oh heck, even chatted with guildmates and friends once in a while.
Virtual world style MMO's need to have large sized areas, but more modern game like MMO's really can exist out of a few lobbys.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Personally I agree. However, I do remember there were those taht bitched about the size and balked it took too long to get anywhere. Honestly worlds that size don't work for everyone unless they have ways to get around it quickly.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Comments
The main issue is that those of us who appreciate what Vanguard is/was are most likely from the same generation that appreciated EQ1 when it first launched (not a universal statement btw). Back then the idea it would take you literal hours to go from point A to point B was the norm unless you yourself was one of the few classes that could port or you got one (usually purchased) from said class.
I also long for a HUGE world similar if not larger than Vanguard (not interested in EVE as space type combat does not interest me) that like EQ2 is now doing offered the PLAYERS to fill the space void. I know that might sound like all I'm really asking for it a sandbox but I actually appreciate the theme park style both EQ1 and Vanguard so in honestly I'm not.
It seems whenever anyone mentions anything about Vanguard, not matter if it's as specific as simply stating you would like a modern MMO with a world the size of it, many just get hung up on pointing out it's flaws rather than concentrating on the actual subject presented. It's a shame really because the one thing MMO's used to have going for them was the feeling of actually being a different world both in scope and size.
I agree with the OP.
We need more virtual worlds, not corridors with rails and mob-packed "zones" were you can't walk for two seconds without stepping on some generic critter just waiting to get sluaghtered for the next "kill ten X" quest, before you step into some "portal" and magically port into the next corridor.
I hate it when you log in to an MMO and see these amazing landscapes in the distance, only to realize that they're nothing but paint - you can't go anywhere outside of the pre-designed questing rails, you can't explore anything that is not related to the "story". Fuck story! I want to explore for myself and experience a strange and dangerous world full of surprises and unknown encounters.
Fuck fast travel and porting around between instanced boxes! I want to travel the land, find new routes and shortcuts, run into strangers in the wild, discover far-away places that no one else have seen yet... I want to have to plan my travels and I want transportation of goods to mean something. I want to feel that "wow, I made it!" feeling when I finally make it to a safe destination with a backback full of precious loot.
A game that makes a world like VG, with a modern combat system, meaningful oPvP and EVE-styled economics (local banking, player-run logistics and transportation, etc) will have me hooked in no time. I know there are many others who wants the same type of game.
As for the posters spamming the same "I love modern themeparks" propaganda in every thread, just play your games and don't bother posting in threads like this. We already know what you like and don't like. You are the majority here, you're not special, you're already being catered to. You have plenty to choose from, while us virtual world fans have been marginalized in absurdum, in spite of being a rather huge niche - just look at EVE's stable sub numbers.
A smart developer could make a nice profit from our sub-group, if they only hade the balls to try a different apporach than copying the same blueprint over and over and tack a new skin on it.
Has anyone mentioned EVE Online as far as huge and open worlds go?
I also agree that modern MMO players are one of the main reasons why we get instanced worlds. Even GW2 is a step backwards in that direction, and one of its worst aspects, since it has loading zones and it needs a larger world.
WoW's uninstanced overworld was a huge factor to its success. Plus it was so large that people actually felt part of a world.
I think ArcheAge online is the way to, and I hope its world is huge - you can actually travel by ship between continents.
Modern controls , I hope you don't mean what the do in GW2, or WOW, etc, because I like the old school type of targeting in games like AC, I can't stand this tab targeting, now a days.
I like that I can dodge magic, I like some twitch based games, Asheron call 1 back in 1998, they had the freedom to walk over mountains so to the OP what rock have you been under?? There are plenty of open world MMO's I see people complain they want this and that, but they do not give smaller companys a chance they all have this kind of stuff, I love smaller companys because its funny to watch people complain and say stuff does not exist when it DOES!!
A mixture of both, but all the major gathering points are about 5 minutes from one another, with smaller "side" content in between.
Eve doesn't count because it uses copy-paste areas which would not fly in a conventional MMO with terrain.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Really?
REALITY CHECK
Really?
The thing is, GW2 world size is actulally pretty small compared to a lot of other games. Why do you fee like its bigger then it really is?
No mounts.
Its amazing how much larger and more expansive a world can be when you dont' have mounts to greatly increase the speed at which you travel around. Sure, you can call it cheating but I actually don't mind neglecting mounts for this sake, particularly if you have an alternate travel way to speed it up. It makes things feel so much bigger and more expansive.
Some do. Some don't.
Or to be more specific: I want a world like that. But I want to share it with those who appreciate it - not those who are only there because there's nothing else, because they'll spend their time whining and complaining and begging for the devs to ruin it (for us.) In the ideal, we can have our world and they can have their lobby, and then neither of us is crapping in the other's sandbox.
(Or themepark, as the case may be.)
I much prefer instanced worlds and fast travel, so players can jump to the adventure fast.
"feeling being part of the world" get old very fast. Wandering around in a forest that only have minor terrain variations is NOT my idea of fun.
There''s a lot of trolls and a lot of irrational hatred for Vanguard for some reason. I've noticed it's mostly from the WoW kids that feel threatened or don't understand for some reason.
I think mmos need large and larger worlds:
This thread has tons of info on mmorpg worlds: How large are MMO worlds now REALLY? A comparison in world sizes
Vanguard comparison: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/306052/page/9
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Almnost 20 if you were riding down there to pick up a cool giant to be your Sorc pet and then return to the Frontier, probably 30-40 minutes round trip.
I used to read during the ride, or study my armor builds or craft on my alt accounts while I waited. Oh heck, even chatted with guildmates and friends once in a while.
Virtual world style MMO's need to have large sized areas, but more modern game like MMO's really can exist out of a few lobbys.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.