Breaking the rules of a game is cheating. Cheating is unethical. Buying and selling items from some MMO games is against the rules of those games. It is therefore cheating, and by definition unethical.
Listening to you, I wonder - how does it affect ME in the real world if athletes use drugs to improve their performance? Someone who (against the rules) buys stuff in a game I play affects me FAR more than an baseball fan is affected by some players using steroids - and yet this is an "ethics issue" meriting national headlines!
If I was a baseball player, and knew other players were using cash to break the rules and increase their performance, I'd be ticked. Even in at an amateur level, it certainly constitutes unethical conduct. This is not very different.
It is not really cheating, your using your own money and this site wants some money I am guessing...and who doesn't know about IGE, everyone in a game would know and some games people play aren't even on the site...even if they ARE new they would find out about it sooner or later.
Originally posted by Owyn Listening to you, I wonder - how does it affect ME in the real world if athletes use drugs to improve their performance? Someone who (against the rules) buys stuff in a game I play affects me FAR more than an baseball fan is affected by some players using steroids - and yet this is an "ethics issue" meriting national headlines!
Abuse of steroids likely will lead to cancer. There is a health risk involved, and thus it is not simply a matter of "playing by the rules". Be careful what kind of analogies you make...you are not making a good comparison.
Your comparing something that is pure fantasy to something real.Ive been scammed and scammed others in game.This is something i would never consider doing in reality.The anonymity of the internet allows me to portray a character in game that is shady and underhanded.
Are you saying that i cant play a character the way i see fit because of a ingame"ethics"standard?
If i buy in game credits offline thats MY business noone else's.You play the game the way YOU want and i dont have a problem with it.
Now if i DO buy credits and spend them solely on myself in say a non PvP environment i just cant see how its infringing on anyone else's playtime.If you feel like grinding out a level for a piece of armor go ahead and do it.If the item respawns its not really rare so if a player feels like buying it i say more power to them.
Ive a feeling buying virtual gear is very much like potsmokers.More people are doing it than we really know. Its just the ones who are doing it are smart enough to keep their mouth shut about it.
Your talking about ethics in a game.Take a deep breathe its just a game.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
[quote]Originally posted by ianubisi Abuse of steroids likely will lead to cancer. There is a health risk involved, and thus it is not simply a matter of "playing by the rules". Be careful what kind of analogies you make...you are not making a good comparison.[/b][/quote]
Actually, to be totally accurate, there is decent evidence that steroid abuse can lead to malignant tumors in certain cases. Don't overstate your case in a debate. Smoking, while proven to be much more cancer-causing than steroid use, is totally legal and still (relatively) socially acceptable.
Admittedly, though, steroid use is of dubious use as a comparison, because it's not just against the rules of the game - it's also illegal.
Perhaps this would be a better example. You know some baseball players at your local (amateur, unpaid) league are using a specially weighted bat. The bat is totally against the rules, but they are not breaking any laws by using it. It's not an authorized bat because it gives a strong advantage to the player using it. Using it is cheating - in fact, the rules say that using it can get you banned from the league. But the bats are hard to spot, so the rule is not well policed, and there are a group of people out there known to be using those bats in their games.
How do you feel about those players? About their actions? Is it ethical to use a bat which gives you an edge on the competition, even though the rules say the bat is not OK to use?
Originally posted by Puoltry Your comparing something that is pure fantasy to something real.Ive been scammed and scammed others in game.This is something i would never consider doing in reality.The anonymity of the internet allows me to portray a character in game that is shady and underhanded. Are you saying that i cant play a character the way i see fit because of a ingame"ethics"standard?
But the game IS real. Not that the world we play in is real, mind you. But the people playing it is real. The rules of the game are real. The social context of the game is real.
If you play a D&D game with your friends once a week, and it's found out that you constantly cheat on your dice rolls, do you think they will want to play with you long? But - it's JUST A GAME, right?
If you spike the opposing team's gatorade with Ex-Lax at a high school soccer game so they can't play effectively enough to win, well... No one was REALLY hurt in the long run. It's just a game?
If you switch a couple chess pieces while the other player's back is turned, is that ethical because no one was hurt by it?
An action does not have to hurt someone else to be unethical.
Your ingame actions, on the other hand, are within the context of the game. If you scam someone in the game, using the game system to do so, then I would imagine that is probably OK from an out of game ethical context (although you are at that point roleplaying an unethical person). But if you use a hack of the client to send incorrect messages to the other player, which results in a scam - then absolutely, you are acting unethically in the real world. You've breached the barrier - you are no longer acting as an ethical player roleplaying an unethical character. If you as the player are breaking the rules of the game to scam another player, then you as the player are acting unethically - not because of the scam, but because of the violation of the rules.
Roleplaying someone who lacks ethics is something many people choose to do in these games, and has little to do with real-world ethics. But breaking the rules of the game is another matter entirely.
I'm not clear on one thing. Are you arguing that cheating in a game is ethical? Or that using IGE in a game that disallows it is not cheating? Both seem rather alien concepts to me.
Comments
Breaking the rules of a game is cheating.
Cheating is unethical.
Buying and selling items from some MMO games is against the rules of those games.
It is therefore cheating, and by definition unethical.
Listening to you, I wonder - how does it affect ME in the real world if athletes use drugs to improve their performance? Someone who (against the rules) buys stuff in a game I play affects me FAR more than an baseball fan is affected by some players using steroids - and yet this is an "ethics issue" meriting national headlines!
If I was a baseball player, and knew other players were using cash to break the rules and increase their performance, I'd be ticked. Even in at an amateur level, it certainly constitutes unethical conduct. This is not very different.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
It is not really cheating, your using your own money and this site wants some money I am guessing...and who doesn't know about IGE, everyone in a game would know and some games people play aren't even on the site...even if they ARE new they would find out about it sooner or later.
---------------------------------------------
Abuse of steroids likely will lead to cancer. There is a health risk involved, and thus it is not simply a matter of "playing by the rules". Be careful what kind of analogies you make...you are not making a good comparison.
Your comparing something that is pure fantasy to something real.Ive been scammed and scammed others in game.This is something i would never consider doing in reality.The anonymity of the internet allows me to portray a character in game that is shady and underhanded.
Are you saying that i cant play a character the way i see fit because of a ingame"ethics"standard?
If i buy in game credits offline thats MY business noone else's.You play the game the way YOU want and i dont have a problem with it.
Now if i DO buy credits and spend them solely on myself in say a non PvP environment i just cant see how its infringing on anyone else's playtime.If you feel like grinding out a level for a piece of armor go ahead and do it.If the item respawns its not really rare so if a player feels like buying it i say more power to them.
Ive a feeling buying virtual gear is very much like potsmokers.More people are doing it than we really know. Its just the ones who are doing it are smart enough to keep their mouth shut about it.
Your talking about ethics in a game.Take a deep breathe its just a game.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
[quote]Originally posted by ianubisi
Abuse of steroids likely will lead to cancer. There is a health risk involved, and thus it is not simply a matter of "playing by the rules". Be careful what kind of analogies you make...you are not making a good comparison.[/b][/quote]
Actually, to be totally accurate, there is decent evidence that steroid abuse can lead to malignant tumors in certain cases. Don't overstate your case in a debate. Smoking, while proven to be much more cancer-causing than steroid use, is totally legal and still (relatively) socially acceptable.
Admittedly, though, steroid use is of dubious use as a comparison, because it's not just against the rules of the game - it's also illegal.
Perhaps this would be a better example. You know some baseball players at your local (amateur, unpaid) league are using a specially weighted bat. The bat is totally against the rules, but they are not breaking any laws by using it. It's not an authorized bat because it gives a strong advantage to the player using it. Using it is cheating - in fact, the rules say that using it can get you banned from the league. But the bats are hard to spot, so the rule is not well policed, and there are a group of people out there known to be using those bats in their games.
How do you feel about those players? About their actions? Is it ethical to use a bat which gives you an edge on the competition, even though the rules say the bat is not OK to use?
Better example? I can probably come up with more.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
But the game IS real. Not that the world we play in is real, mind you. But the people playing it is real. The rules of the game are real. The social context of the game is real.
If you play a D&D game with your friends once a week, and it's found out that you constantly cheat on your dice rolls, do you think they will want to play with you long? But - it's JUST A GAME, right?
If you spike the opposing team's gatorade with Ex-Lax at a high school soccer game so they can't play effectively enough to win, well... No one was REALLY hurt in the long run. It's just a game?
If you switch a couple chess pieces while the other player's back is turned, is that ethical because no one was hurt by it?
An action does not have to hurt someone else to be unethical.
Your ingame actions, on the other hand, are within the context of the game. If you scam someone in the game, using the game system to do so, then I would imagine that is probably OK from an out of game ethical context (although you are at that point roleplaying an unethical person). But if you use a hack of the client to send incorrect messages to the other player, which results in a scam - then absolutely, you are acting unethically in the real world. You've breached the barrier - you are no longer acting as an ethical player roleplaying an unethical character. If you as the player are breaking the rules of the game to scam another player, then you as the player are acting unethically - not because of the scam, but because of the violation of the rules.
Roleplaying someone who lacks ethics is something many people choose to do in these games, and has little to do with real-world ethics. But breaking the rules of the game is another matter entirely.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
Looks like it boils down to a matter of individual perspective then.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
I...suppose.
I'm not clear on one thing. Are you arguing that cheating in a game is ethical? Or that using IGE in a game that disallows it is not cheating? Both seem rather alien concepts to me.
Remind me to never play a hand of poker with you.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
+++++++++
We are creating EBAY of MMORPG industry!
http://WWW.GOOGAM.COM
What's this the 4th advert for these types of sites in 2 days. How long will it be until mmorpg.com is pwned by IGE?