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Extremely Amusing - Fans of the Combat System
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Although I don't think it would take away your boredom with the combat, you were given a decent reply earlier by the poster Magecard::
OP. I think you need to sit down and consider that you arguement is flawed.
The gaming industry has (you may have noticed) created genres, you stated a few in your OP, FPS, MMORPG, Platofrm.. I could go on.
Now when someone does a review of a game or talks about a game, they use comparisons, these comparisons only really mean something when compared with games of the same are very similar genre. I could state that skill involved in playing an old school, 3 lives and its game over platform game as being way harder and skill based than lets say, call of duty MW. But what is my point here? that a game created in a different time for a different set of people is dare I say it....different?
So this brings me to GW2 - which is a MMORPG. As far as MMORPG's go there are only a couple which require more skill to master than GW2 and thousands that do not. So it this case, stating that GW2 requires skill to master and play well when compared to games of the SAME genre is a correct statement.
OP you are the one going off topic when comparing this game to action rpgs like darksouls etc, if your going to compare across genres then nothing is going to live up to something else is it? the the graphics in GW2 are not the best ive ever seen but they are in the top 2% of mmorpgs graphics imo. but maybe only top 20% of games overall. Its called context and your posts lack it in the extreme.
PS: feel free to quote and highlight this post and comment that all my points are dumb, also feel free to not explain y (thats troll behaviour btw)
You know what's even better. ArenaNet or the "rabid fanboys" never said the combat was skill based like an FPS. The only claim made, is that it is different over the "oldschool MMO". This was clear from the beginning and could easily be seen just by doing some research.
Amazing thread.
What Chryses says is true in the way that you can't just stand there and push tab and skillbar. I would love to ask you for a 1 vs. 1 or a 5 vs. 5 and you don't use dodge, just stand and spam 1 2 3 4 5. Coming from League of Legends, I enjoy the combat of GW2 a lot over the usual MMORPG, because there is a lot of movement and thought involved.
I do agree some DEs tend to get a zergfest due to the number of players. This also counts for WvWvW.
Wow, way to go with the insults dude.
Now, since you keep saying you've played the game, how about you give another go at why this statement is wrong "The only difference I see is there are only 5 combat abilities (not counting the utility abilities) "
He didn't post the sentence you quoted. You are thinking of another forum user.
No, he just said I failed reading comprehension when I called the original guy out.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
So then you should ask him why he thought you had lacking reading comprehension rather than asking him why the other sentence is wrong.
What about you describe the micromanagement of a DPS?
And shall we look at what anyone playing in GW2 Dungeon (Yes you have to use structure formats vs structured formants or you pit open world vs open world).
Any player have to do the following:
- Aggro;
- Watch the Boss/Mobs and see their tells to use dodge while checking for any hostile AoE popping up (include traps).
- Manage their weapon coolddowns, even those that are on the switch or is a tool kit so you need to predict lest you change weapon and have skills on CD.
- Stack boons or clean debuffs, and since you can't target your allies you need to make sure yo are in range.
- Choose the best pplace to drop your combo field, allowing other players to use it-
- See a combo field and take advantage of it.
- You have to manage your health and your dodge bar and still pay attention to other players health so you know when to grab aggro from him.
- Decide between rez or rally.
- Decide if it is better to someone to revive you or to go to the waypoint.
Yeah, GW2 has no micromanagent.
Oh wait.
We need to compare Raids, which are the hardest aspect of most MMOs to GW2 easiest aspect, the low level open world, because if we compare other games questing to GW2 open world content, the other games qusting might look bad.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Well after I went through all your replies right now all I can see is stubborness, arrogance, selfproclaimed knowledge and justifications by turning other peoples own words in their mouths.
Due to this I will just give you a few infos since you are obviously too ignorant to aknowledge anything someone tells you.
I also have off work in a few so I'd rather go home and start my weekend instead of wasting any more time with you.
With that said:
- you are right that english is not my main language, I wanna thank you for the discrimination and arrogance you showcased to a person that learned english himself
- you are wrong about me needing the wiki cause I'm playing games since the 80s (a age you probably weren't even on earth yet or in your diapers), have created mods and mini games in the 90s and I'm a independent game developer and game designer in my free time since 2000.
- when you write to a community that there are "3 main genres" then you indeed try to classify things.
Most of all when you add categories of skills that are applying to these genres (which were also only partially true aswell).
Then when one tells you that you are wrong, you turn everything around, putting their arguments down with excuses only so your point can stay valid.
- yes I know what micromanagement is but it indeed doesn't apply the way you put it since the healer isn't responsible for "all units in the game", the effects, healing, positioning among other things are NOT minor details and because in big raids you have more than one healer that takes care of the job instead of ONE person doing it.
So maybe you should check out Macromanagement instead of Micromanagement or find the way between the two that would fit more in your description instead of one particular of these two.
Go play a strategy game or one of its subgenres like the famous RTS if you wanna experience what micromanagement really is.
Also to explain to you what I mean with clicking a target:
- in many games you can click and lock targets from a bigger distance in games in which auto or semiauto aiming (when in range) is available.
So if tab targetting is not available in a game, you can use this method to your advantage at some points and situations.
In GW2 you have all 3 options available: autoaim when you are in the direction of the target, tab targeting from the closest to the fartherst target and clicking and locking a target from a distance(mostly as unnessecary as the tab targetting).
- Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry are action games that are using a totally different combat system. Comparing these to GW2s battle system is beyond silly.
Most of all since the skill system is totally different, the combat system is totally different and the whole mechanics aswell.
On the top of it you go and praise Terras system as if it were beta? Can't be more contradicting than that.
- you say that Terras PvE combat lacks.
Yet you are basing GW2s experience on heart quests and dynamic events saying its bad and terras system is better.
Contradicting much?
I won't even go into the stats debatte since it has been talked to death in these forums already.
You can reply and be arrogant, discriminating, insulting or whatever you want again for all I care.
I told you what I had to do and hereby I'm done with you. Have a great day and enjoy whatever else game you wanna play!
The point has been that the amount of skill required and displayed is so trivial compared to other games (read: videogames in a general sense and not necessarely MMORPGs) that it is questionable to call GW2's combat "skillfull". He has acknowledged " Skill build planning" as a retort and said that the "dodging" is a bad retort since it is so trivial.
Ughh.. just read back to post #45, Dysphorick actually highlighted the "(not counting the utility abilities)" bit in his quoting, which is clear he had no idea I was referencing you get weapon swap at lvl 7 and thought I was counting the util skills.
I'll admit I just lumped him as a flamer from that point and chose not to playing nice and explain in detail. I was not replying to him yet he decided to jump in and proceed to say I failed reading comprehension, when he himself exhibit a lack of knowledge of the game? It left a very sour taste.
In that case maybe the OP has some interpretation problems himself.
Because when people say GW2 combat require skill it is in comparasion to other MMORPGs.
Unless I'm mistaken and we are in some general game forum and not MMORPG forum.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I have not played the other games the OP mentioned but to me GW2 plays like an action game like Devil may cry.
When I play melee I don't even use the targeting system but manually swing my sword at the enemy, which involves aim.
And if I want to do a special move the targetign system is in place to make sure I hit the enemy.
I love it, it's a very nice hybrid which makes use of both systems. And yu can tweak it fairly well in options even.
Then again I'm used to static fighting in mmorpg's when you could stand still and just press 1,4,3,7,etc.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You illustrate a big reason why people go to fan or official sites once a game releases. It's not about being a fan or not but having reasonable, adult discussions. It's a good thing you made this when you did as it will be locked soon.
Why are we having an arguement in this post regarding skill and PvE content? As far as I am concerned, this game is full of unskilled players trying to claim this game takes no skill. Yes...you can get to level 80 with no skill. Hell, you can get to level 80 by walking around the world and collecting little twigs and berries if you so choose. Without skill you will likely never do anything of any consequence in this game.
I have spent my last two play sessions in WvW. I will tell you without a doubt that skill plays a huge roll in this game and there is a very large gap between a few good players and everyone else. I have not lost a single 1v1 fight in WvW. Period.
I am usually in a group of about 10, and we are constantly fighting zergs of 20 and 30 people and winning. Why? Because we understand the strategy, use the seige weapon and terrain mechanics of the game, communicate, and know how to play our classes.
The great thing about this game in terms of PvE and PvP is that it utilizes real skill instead of simulating it through adding more buttons for players to mash or just increasing the size of the numbers on the screen. People who say there is no resource management in the game need to play more and figure it out. I could say that to a lot of the posts I see here...play more and figure it out. Because most of the people criticizing the game for "skill" based reasons don't know what they are talking about. Anyone that has played the game enough to understand the subtle, and mostly unconventional nuances of the combat and content mechanics know better.
I don't really get the love for the combat system. To me, its one of the weakest features. Any moment I start to get pulled into the game, I get into combat and I cringe a little. I have fun but it just feels so clunky. It feels like they weren't sure if they wanted ta tab target auto attack game or a skill based game. Its so far in the middle that it doesn't play right on both ends. I feel less control for my character then other games.
Granted I'll get lots of bashing, Tera did an excelent job with the combat system. Some people might not like the way it was set up (WHERE IS MY BUTTON SPAMMING/NO PENALTY FOR FAILING) but it did a great job at making me feel control for my character. That 'animation lock' or so it was known for basically made it so you had to set up your skills right, and if you didn't you had to suffer concequences for it (or dodge out of it
) which promotes more skill. Add in aiming and it really makes it a lot more skill based. That is of course focusing on combat and ignoring the flaws, but it just comes to show MMO combat CAN be done right without needing instanced areas for it in other action MMOs.
It doesn't help further when you can join a zerg and sit afk during an entire boss fight without worry about dieing since there is auto attack. Its not the worst combat system, but its not the best either when you feel actually handicapped by the system playing against you at times.
@Benit: And your detail about 'skill' can be applied to practically every game. There are masses in any game you play that are just bad and don't understand, GW2 doesn't make it any different and really does nothing to seperate that fact. Dodge could be considered as to making it more complex, but it throws a curve ball in actually limiting the abilities you have and simplifing it for that sake, making it in some ways easier.
Given that games such as DayZ, Diablo III and League of Legends seem to be very popular among MMORPG players or at the very least popular enough to make it to this site, I am not so sure anymore.
As far as I can tell, every single one of his posts have reported.
OP, you mentioned a game I REALLY love in your post.
It's a game that can be brutally hard. Where if you die, you have to start ALL THE WAY at the beginning of the level. And not only that, players from other realms can invade your area and actually kill you!
Do you know what that game is?
It's called Guild Wars 2 in the Obsidian Sanctum
!
GW2 is a game that can be pretty easily or brutally hard depending on how you choose to play. If all you do is the easy stuff...then don't complain that it's easy lol
.
The dungeons, jumping puzzles, and PvP are all pretty hard. Try them...
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
This. This whole post is so true. So many games are just crap game with gamers standing across from each other bashing with macros and twink builds followed by chest beating and claims of skill...
This game is about mobility and comparative advange. It's about defeating enemies in detail. It's about exploiting the incompetency of others who have no clue how combat really works. It's about using the resources and positioning available. And all these wanna-be Sun Tzu/Pattons/Rommels etc. totally miss it.
It's too bad the above referenced post is buried in this otherwise worthless thread.
He talked specifically about the combat and how it is not "skillfull", not about whether or not the game can be hard.
Edit: He did however mention preparations infor combat, which can be considered to not be a part of the actual combat per se.