I want to be in charge of my character: why GW2 only lasted one week for me

tyfon

My first MMORPG ever was Anarchy Online (before that I only played MUDs). In this game you can take any profession, in my case a Nano Technician, and fit whatever weapon you wanted. My NT ran around with a Nova Flow assault rifle for a long time. He has also had rifle, shotgun and has been a martial artist. Of course they were probably not the most efficient weapons but who cared.

 

You could screw up your character by allocating improvement points wrong. You actually lost XP when you died. You could put the stats you wanted in the implants. You could wear any armor or weapon as long as you had the skills to do it. There were no "You need to be level xx to wear this gun" bullshit. Heck, you could buff a level 100 engineer with skill wrangler and mochams and cast a level 200 robot as long as you had the ncu space for it.

I just resubscribed to AO again after lasting only one week in GW2. That is a new record for me. Even TERA lasted longer. I don't care that the engine is 10 years old or that the UI is slightly clunky. It's a much better role playing game that a lot of the new crap.

 

In GW2 everything is on rails. Even the exploring is put to system, and when you have "discovered" all the vistas and points of interest for a map the game conveniently tells you that the map is now 100% and it's time to move on. When I got to level 30 the last skill slot opened up and I realized that from that point the meaningfull progression stops. I spent over a year of meaningfull progression in AO before I got to level 200.

 

GW2 advertizes: Play as you want. But that is only true as long as you play it the way ANet wants. This is proven by all the posts in the forums where complaining players are met with "You are playing it wrong". I thought you could not play it wrong and this was one of the reasons I bought it. It reminds me of Apple where there were no antenna problem but people were "holding it wrong".

 

I'm not dissing GW2 specifically but it is the pinacle of what I hate in new games. The developers put no trust in the gamers that they will figure out the game. There are only two other "mainstream" games that have the qualities that AO has. TSW and EVE both have no classes and have absolute freedom to configure your skills and how to play. EVE more so than TSW and the method of gaining those skills are vastly diferent, but they put the player in charge.

 

And that is what I really miss in the new games. I want to be in charge of my characters progression. I hate when the developer chose for me what I can and can not do. Why can't you even select basic rpg skills like intelligence and strength when you level up in these new games?

 

GW2 is probably a good Massive Multiplayer Action Game, but I think it is a far stretch to call it for an RPG. The same goes for a lot of other games like AoC, Rift and TERA, but at least you have the "next" skill carrot in these as you progress and "Talents" to use a WoW term too.

 

/rant off

I understand a lot of people are having fun in the mmo action games, but I miss the old rpgs and I wish more developers would not be so scared of letting the player be the boss over their characters.

 

But the question follows. Why don't developers trust their players? Do the younger generation actually want to have everything on rails?

 

Anyway. See you in AO (or TSW or EVE as I play all three now). It will take a lot of convincing to get me to play new games in the future.

 

xposeidon

Yeah you answered your own question. Instead of losing you they would lose 10 people or so that couldn't figure the game out for those reasons. The game is intended for a wide audience including casuals. Now there is some tweaking you can do but it's not completely free, things like traits, utility and elite skills, runes and sigils on weapons and armors will make or break a character in sPvP.

kaiser3282

Originally posted by tyfon

My first MMORPG ever was Anarchy Online (before that I only played MUDs). In this game you can take any profession, in my case a Nano Technician, and fit whatever weapon you wanted. My NT ran around with a Nova Flow assault rifle for a long time. He has also had rifle, shotgun and has been a martial artist. Of course they were probably not the most efficient weapons but who cared.

 

You could screw up your character by allocating improvement points wrong. You actually lost XP when you died. You could put the stats you wanted in the implants. You could wear any armor or weapon as long as you had the skills to do it. There were no "You need to be level xx to wear this gun" bullshit. Heck, you could buff a level 100 engineer with skill wrangler and mochams and cast a level 200 robot as long as you had the ncu space for it.

I just resubscribed to AO again after lasting only one week in GW2. That is a new record for me. Even TERA lasted longer. I don't care that the engine is 10 years old or that the UI is slightly clunky. It's a much better role playing game that a lot of the new crap.

 

In GW2 everything is on rails. Even the exploring is put to system, and when you have "discovered" all the vistas and points of interest for a map the game conveniently tells you that the map is now 100% and it's time to move on. When I got to level 30 the last skill slot opened up and I realized that from that point the meaningfull progression stops. I spent over a year of meaningfull progression in AO before I got to level 200.

 

GW2 advertizes: Play as you want. But that is only true as long as you play it the way ANet wants. This is proven by all the posts in the forums where complaining players are met with "You are playing it wrong". I thought you could not play it wrong and this was one of the reasons I bought it. It reminds me of Apple where there were no antenna problem but people were "holding it wrong".

 

I'm not dissing GW2 specifically but it is the pinacle of what I hate in new games. The developers put no trust in the gamers that they will figure out the game. There are only two other "mainstream" games that have the qualities that AO has. TSW and EVE both have no classes and have absolute freedom to configure your skills and how to play. EVE more so than TSW and the method of gaining those skills are vastly diferent, but they put the player in charge.

 

And that is what I really miss in the new games. I want to be in charge of my characters progression. I hate when the developer chose for me what I can and can not do. Why can't you even select basic rpg skills like intelligence and strength when you level up in these new games?

 

GW2 is probably a good Massive Multiplayer Action Game, but I think it is a far stretch to call it for an RPG. The same goes for a lot of other games like AoC, Rift and TERA, but at least you have the "next" skill carrot in these as you progress and "Talents" to use a WoW term too.

 

/rant off

I understand a lot of people are having fun in the mmo action games, but I miss the old rpgs and I wish more developers would not be so scared of letting the player be the boss over their characters.

 

But the question follows. Why don't developers trust their players? Do the younger generation actually want to have everything on rails?

 

Anyway. See you in AO (or TSW or EVE as I play all three now). It will take a lot of convincing to get me to play new games in the future.

 

1) Progression doesnt stop at 30. If you actually did hit 30, surely you would have seen the Traits. Thats where your progression comes in. Along with direct stat increases you can pick from a variety of skill that give you a lot of different effects. Since you dont seem to know they exist or how they work, i would suggest checking this out to see how many different builds you can create and how differently characters will be depending on just which effects they want their class to have: http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc

2) 100% map completion only means you unlocked 100% of the designated points. Dont know how people keep missing all the info being posted in different threads about hidden things to find by actually going off and exploring instead of going from point A to point B. Theres the various jumping puzzles as well as hidden paths, caves, tunnels, etc that take you to different sorts of challenges, like fighting large groups of mobs with sort of a mini-boss in there in order to get to treasure chests as well as unlocking achievements. None of these things are marked on your map for you.

tyfon

Originally posted by xposeidon
Yeah you answered your own question. Instead of losing you they would lose 10 people or so that couldn't figure the game out for those reasons. The game is intended for a wide audience including casuals. Now there is some tweaking you can do but it's not completely free, things like traits, utility and elite skills, runes and sigils on weapons and armors will make or break a character in sPvP.

That is probably true. Imagine the outrage if everyone could not get the best gear instantly or even have to wait maybe a year or more to get that special spell (I'm looking at you Nullity Sphere and Grid Armor).

I tried sPVP a bit but it felt like a modern FPS. Maybe it would be fun if I bought the game to have that type of game play and not an RPG.

gravesworn

The main problem is that mmorpgs have come in to the mass market appeal. It is far more lucritive than in the beginning of the 2000s. I absolutely miss challenging content. Hell i wish 40 man raids were still avaliable. Guild wars 2 is a great game for what it is. Unfortunately i dont ever see a company making a game with challenging content in it again. So for me, guild wars 2 is the best i can hope for in the current state of the industry. When i need things to get intense and challenging I have dota2

Chtuga

Originally posted by gravesworn
The main problem is that mmorpgs have come in to the mass market appeal. It is far more lucritive than in the beginning of the 2000s. I absolutely miss challenging content. Hell i wish 40 man raids were still avaliable. Guild wars 2 is a great game for what it is. Unfortunately i dont ever see a company making a game with challenging content in it again. 

You should test TSW, they have a 3 day trial now on their website. Its challenging and alot of fun for sure! 

bbbmmmlll

I think it's called progress. People want to play the fun parts of a game and avoid the unfun parts. While there are going to be expceptions, in general, figuring out which of 200 skills to spend points in, spending two hours getting your corpse back, fighting with a clunky UI or travelling for 30 minutes to meet up with your friends are generally not fun.

Modern games try to have an easy to use interface, flexbility for players and mechanics that aren't overtly negative. Just like a modern car, then look simple on the outside, but are complex behind the scenes . Exposing the complexity to a player is often just poor or dated design.

I don't feel at all like I'm "on rails" in GW2 any more or less than any other MMORPG. I can go anywhere I want and have tons of choices when it comes to fighting or setting up my characters. The huge open ended world with lots of cookie cutter content is missing, but I always prefer quality or quantity.

I've played plenty of MUDs and rogue-like games and I don't want to go back. 

 

Fadedbomb

Originally posted by gravesworn
The main problem is that mmorpgs have come in to the mass market appeal. It is far more lucritive than in the beginning of the 2000s. I absolutely miss challenging content. Hell i wish 40 man raids were still avaliable. Guild wars 2 is a great game for what it is. Unfortunately i dont ever see a company making a game with challenging content in it again. So for me, guild wars 2 is the best i can hope for in the current state of the industry. When i need things to get intense and challenging I have dota2

Please explain to me how SWTOR was "lucritive" (correct spelling "lucrative").

 

 

Oh wait, it wasn't and is actually draining EA of resources.

Dewm

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by gravesworn
The main problem is that mmorpgs have come in to the mass market appeal. It is far more lucritive than in the beginning of the 2000s. I absolutely miss challenging content. Hell i wish 40 man raids were still avaliable. Guild wars 2 is a great game for what it is. Unfortunately i dont ever see a company making a game with challenging content in it again. So for me, guild wars 2 is the best i can hope for in the current state of the industry. When i need things to get intense and challenging I have dota2

Please explain to me how SWTOR was "lucritive" (correct spelling "lucrative").

 

 

Oh wait, it wasn't and is actually draining EA of resources.

 

Anything to kill them off faster.

 

(maybe I should reccomend to them to make a SWTOR2)

dave6660

Originally posted by xposeidon
Yeah you answered your own question. Instead of losing you they would lose 10 people or so that couldn't figure the game out for those reasons. The game is intended for a wide audience including casuals. Now there is some tweaking you can do but it's not completely free, things like traits, utility and elite skills, runes and sigils on weapons and armors will make or break a character in sPvP.

That is a sad reflection of the intelligence of the average gamer.  Even the most "complex" RPG's on the market aren't all that difficult to figure out.  Isn't learning part of the fun?  Has intellectual curiousity become extinct?