"niche" should be added to that overused MMORPG word thread.
I also refuse to agree with the OP that gamers are different, and have different gaming habbits than previously... You state that people have families, jobs and social commitments; well, didn't they have that 10 years ago too? It may be the case with you, that you have developed these time commitments, but there is no difference in the overall demographic. That would be absurd.
You can't just arbitraily state "this game represents the reality of the demographics of gamers". Where is your proof? Most of your post is just a load of hyperbole.
To answer the thread title. The meaning of GW2 seems to be to breed this type of pontificating.
Most studies show that the largest number of gamers is between 25 and 40 years old. Ten years ago those people would be between 15 and 30 years old, and I would wager that the number of people 25 to 30 during that time playing MMOs were on the lower end of the age group.
It seems like your point of view is only correct in one aspect. A game such as GW2 does not represent the genre demographic as a whole, but the developers seem to feel that their studies have showed the wants and needs of a majority of the gamers has changed. I arrive at this conclusion due to the fact that many of the new games and the newest games currently in development are making the games solo friendly and more casual.
"niche" should be added to that overused MMORPG word thread.
I also refuse to agree with the OP that gamers are different, and have different gaming habbits than previously... You state that people have families, jobs and social commitments; well, didn't they have that 10 years ago too? It may be the case with you, that you have developed these time commitments, but there is no difference in the overall demographic. That would be absurd.
You can't just arbitraily state "this game represents the reality of the demographics of gamers". Where is your proof? Most of your post is just a load of hyperbole.
To answer the thread title. The meaning of GW2 seems to be to breed this type of pontificating.
What you say is true, but the guys who had kids 10 years ago were probably about 30-40 years old and now they're about 40-50. Most have either moved on from gaming and focused on their families and getting to retirement or are still gaming but have adjusted to the times and merely take part in occasional nastalgia.
TSW & GW2 are definitely moving in different directions for this genre. Love these games or hate them, this is it the way forward. The EQ/WoW clones are in the past. The real test will be when TESO comes out and how they have changed since it's announcement, or it will go the way of Swtor..
Desperate? After checking out GW2 I´m so incredibly happy I got the lifetime sub for TSW instead. (Which means it was B2P too for me) Also people should stop spreading false infos about AoC, it might have had a rocky start but it´s a gem in its current state. FC creates incredibly looking worlds and great innovative game mechanics, and neither TSW nor AoC were going the road of cheapish stylized cartoon graphics like many of those "fantasy MMOs" are.
GW2 more innovative than TSW? WTF, are you kidding? Dynamic events so you run in a yellow circle with people without going to an NPC, just to collect eggs and water bowls or kill X, and you call that "innovation"? Gimme a break... it´s the same old stuff with the novelty of getting rid of questgivers, but in fact you are doing the same stuff like in any other cookie cutter MMO. Sorry but that is the undeniable truth. On top of that, these "dialogue cutscenes" with a still background, which don´t even tell an interesting or in any way innovative story.
GW2 = evolution of *cough* classic concepts
TSW = innovation
period.
Always amusing to read the hate from people who clearly havent even played the game and actually thinks the other trolls are spot on about what there is to do in the game.
Whats so innovative about TSW? No killing things? No collecting anything? No protecting anybody / anything?
Unless those things dont exist int he game, guess what. Its no different than other games either.
I know both games and you can ask me anything about what and how I can do things in both MMOs, GW2 and TSW.
But let´s leave GW2 and TSW for a moment, although both are themeparks, TSW wins hands down in the innovation department against GW2. But TSW would not win against:
1. EvE
2. SWG
10 years old and both still eat any railed themepark MMO out there for breakfast with their deep and complex systems driven mechanics.
But too bad, "mechanics" aren´t considered "content" nowadays.
Killing and collecting stuff, over and over again in changing landscapes is considered as "content".
Getting rid of a questgiver and exchanging the questgiver for yellow moving circles which tell you to kill/collect stuff just like in 1999 is considered "innovation".
Really... did WoW really lower everyones expectations so radically? It´s a drama.
So you're telling me that because someone changed the way something is done that it is not an innovation? Man all this time I thought the definition of innovation was:
the act of innovating; introduction of new things or methods. [dictionary.com].
Lets take a look at the word "methods". Removing the questgiver and taking away the "get quest run across the map kill mobs and run all the way back" and just telling the player to go help this NPC or protect this NPC on their way to the next town are different methods of doing something old. So if the method has been changed, then I say this is innovation. I no longer have to look for green exclamation points and have a quest log full of quests I'll never finish.
I can just wander around and have an NPC run up to me and ask for help and tell me his farm is being raided by bandits. Not only that these bandits dont just spawn out of thin air ontop of the farm. There is a bandit hideout in a cave nearby. You go in the cave and you can overhear dialogue from the bandits as they're planning to go overtake the farm. Then you see them run out of their cave with torches and guns you see them set fire to crops and start to kill farmers.
Not only was the method changed but it was taken to an entirely different level. This is innovation. Both the methods were changed and a new level of depth were introduced. Yes the "yellow circles" help you find where the nearest events are but you're obviously not paying attention to the events themselves as theyre not just gather X and kill Y. It's "Help Grogg(madeup name) tame some pets so he can try to take back his village from his brother" which then chains into the event where you actually run over to help him take his village back. Then after that he wants you to go gather some wood to help him rebuild his walls. It's not just mindless gather X and Kill Y it's "bring me these things with reason".
It's a game where everything has a purpose or an end goal. You're not just following this packbull and farmer for the sake of gaining exp you're doing it because the next town over needs a shipment of wheat.
Another thing they innovated on was the sheer amount of dialogue in the game. And I'm not talking about SW:TOR story dialogue where youre looking an NPC in the face and making decisions that may or may not affect you. I mean idle chatter from NPC's on the side. Things that would normally only be in chat bubbles are now fully voiced. Not only that but if you listen in it will give you clues to lore, new events, where something may be taking place, or even about how to level up your crafting! That is innovation to me. The method of presenting the player with information and engrossing them in the world was changed; Innovation[see definition above]
Desperate? After checking out GW2 I´m so incredibly happy I got the lifetime sub for TSW instead. (Which means it was B2P too for me) Also people should stop spreading false infos about AoC, it might have had a rocky start but it´s a gem in its current state. FC creates incredibly looking worlds and great innovative game mechanics, and neither TSW nor AoC were going the road of cheapish stylized cartoon graphics like many of those "fantasy MMOs" are.
GW2 more innovative than TSW? WTF, are you kidding? Dynamic events so you run in a yellow circle with people without going to an NPC, just to collect eggs and water bowls or kill X, and you call that "innovation"? Gimme a break... it´s the same old stuff with the novelty of getting rid of questgivers, but in fact you are doing the same stuff like in any other cookie cutter MMO. Sorry but that is the undeniable truth. On top of that, these "dialogue cutscenes" with a still background, which don´t even tell an interesting or in any way innovative story.
GW2 = evolution of *cough* classic concepts
TSW = innovation
period.
Always amusing to read the hate from people who clearly havent even played the game and actually thinks the other trolls are spot on about what there is to do in the game.
Whats so innovative about TSW? No killing things? No collecting anything? No protecting anybody / anything?
Unless those things dont exist int he game, guess what. Its no different than other games either.
I know both games and you can ask me anything about what and how I can do things in both MMOs, GW2 and TSW.
But let´s leave GW2 and TSW for a moment, although both are themeparks, TSW wins hands down in the innovation department against GW2. But TSW would not win against:
1. EvE
2. SWG
10 years old and both still eat any railed themepark MMO out there for breakfast with their deep and complex systems driven mechanics.
But too bad, "mechanics" aren´t considered "content" nowadays.
Killing and collecting stuff, over and over again in changing landscapes is considered as "content".
Getting rid of a questgiver and exchanging the questgiver for yellow moving circles which tell you to kill/collect stuff just like in 1999 is considered "innovation".
Really... did WoW really lower everyones expectations so radically? It´s a drama.
So you're telling me that because someone changed the way something is done that it is not an innovation? Man all this time I thought the definition of innovation was:
the act of innovating; introduction of new things or methods. [dictionary.com].
Lets take a look at the word "methods". Removing the questgiver and taking away the "get quest run across the map kill mobs and run all the way back" and just telling the player to go help this NPC or protect this NPC on their way to the next town are different methods of doing something old. So if the method has been changed, then I say this is innovation. I no longer have to look for green exclamation points and have a quest log full of quests I'll never finish.
I can just wander around and have an NPC run up to me and ask for help and tell me his farm is being raided by bandits. Not only that these bandits dont just spawn out of thin air ontop of the farm. There is a bandit hideout in a cave nearby. You go in the cave and you can overhear dialogue from the bandits as they're planning to go overtake the farm. Then you see them run out of their cave with torches and guns you see them set fire to crops and start to kill farmers.
Not only was the method changed but it was taken to an entirely different level. This is innovation. Both the methods were changed and a new level of depth were introduced. Yes the "yellow circles" help you find where the nearest events are but you're obviously not paying attention to the events themselves as theyre not just gather X and kill Y. It's "Help Grogg(madeup name) tame some pets so he can try to take back his village from his brother" which then chains into the event where you actually run over to help him take his village back. Then after that he wants you to go gather some wood to help him rebuild his walls. It's not just mindless gather X and Kill Y it's "bring me these things with reason".
It's a game where everything has a purpose or an end goal. You're not just following this packbull and farmer for the sake of gaining exp you're doing it because the next town over needs a shipment of wheat.
Another thing they innovated on was the sheer amount of dialogue in the game. And I'm not talking about SW:TOR story dialogue where youre looking an NPC in the face and making decisions that may or may not affect you. I mean idle chatter from NPC's on the side. Things that would normally only be in chat bubbles are now fully voiced. Not only that but if you listen in it will give you clues to lore, new events, where something may be taking place, or even about how to level up your crafting! That is innovation to me. The method of presenting the player with information and engrossing them in the world was changed; Innovation[see definition above]
Being creative and improving things is ether done with innovation (coming up with something completely new, radical even) or adaptation (taking something that already exists and improving it).
I think GW2 can best be described as using adaptation in its themepark MMO - there are a lot of things that began in other MMO's and have been adapted / improved for this one.
Whilst I have been enjoying playing it, the compulsion to log in each time is lessening, as it's more of the same, done differently, granted, but, wandering around to complete hearts, vistas, discover places or protect the odd NPC is feeling a bit repetitive now. In truth, it still feels like the same thing in each zone of the game, which in turn, feels like the same thing in each (mostly) MMO.
Comments
I also refuse to agree with the OP that gamers are different, and have different gaming habbits than previously... You state that people have families, jobs and social commitments; well, didn't they have that 10 years ago too? It may be the case with you, that you have developed these time commitments, but there is no difference in the overall demographic. That would be absurd.
You can't just arbitraily state "this game represents the reality of the demographics of gamers". Where is your proof? Most of your post is just a load of hyperbole.
To answer the thread title. The meaning of GW2 seems to be to breed this type of pontificating.
Most studies show that the largest number of gamers is between 25 and 40 years old. Ten years ago those people would be between 15 and 30 years old, and I would wager that the number of people 25 to 30 during that time playing MMOs were on the lower end of the age group.
It seems like your point of view is only correct in one aspect. A game such as GW2 does not represent the genre demographic as a whole, but the developers seem to feel that their studies have showed the wants and needs of a majority of the gamers has changed. I arrive at this conclusion due to the fact that many of the new games and the newest games currently in development are making the games solo friendly and more casual.
What you say is true, but the guys who had kids 10 years ago were probably about 30-40 years old and now they're about 40-50. Most have either moved on from gaming and focused on their families and getting to retirement or are still gaming but have adjusted to the times and merely take part in occasional nastalgia.
So you're telling me that because someone changed the way something is done that it is not an innovation? Man all this time I thought the definition of innovation was:
the act of innovating; introduction of new things or methods. [dictionary.com].
Lets take a look at the word "methods". Removing the questgiver and taking away the "get quest run across the map kill mobs and run all the way back" and just telling the player to go help this NPC or protect this NPC on their way to the next town are different methods of doing something old. So if the method has been changed, then I say this is innovation. I no longer have to look for green exclamation points and have a quest log full of quests I'll never finish.
I can just wander around and have an NPC run up to me and ask for help and tell me his farm is being raided by bandits. Not only that these bandits dont just spawn out of thin air ontop of the farm. There is a bandit hideout in a cave nearby. You go in the cave and you can overhear dialogue from the bandits as they're planning to go overtake the farm. Then you see them run out of their cave with torches and guns you see them set fire to crops and start to kill farmers.
Not only was the method changed but it was taken to an entirely different level. This is innovation. Both the methods were changed and a new level of depth were introduced. Yes the "yellow circles" help you find where the nearest events are but you're obviously not paying attention to the events themselves as theyre not just gather X and kill Y. It's "Help Grogg(madeup name) tame some pets so he can try to take back his village from his brother" which then chains into the event where you actually run over to help him take his village back. Then after that he wants you to go gather some wood to help him rebuild his walls. It's not just mindless gather X and Kill Y it's "bring me these things with reason".
It's a game where everything has a purpose or an end goal. You're not just following this packbull and farmer for the sake of gaining exp you're doing it because the next town over needs a shipment of wheat.
Another thing they innovated on was the sheer amount of dialogue in the game. And I'm not talking about SW:TOR story dialogue where youre looking an NPC in the face and making decisions that may or may not affect you. I mean idle chatter from NPC's on the side. Things that would normally only be in chat bubbles are now fully voiced. Not only that but if you listen in it will give you clues to lore, new events, where something may be taking place, or even about how to level up your crafting! That is innovation to me. The method of presenting the player with information and engrossing them in the world was changed; Innovation[see definition above]
Being creative and improving things is ether done with innovation (coming up with something completely new, radical even) or adaptation (taking something that already exists and improving it).
I think GW2 can best be described as using adaptation in its themepark MMO - there are a lot of things that began in other MMO's and have been adapted / improved for this one.
Whilst I have been enjoying playing it, the compulsion to log in each time is lessening, as it's more of the same, done differently, granted, but, wandering around to complete hearts, vistas, discover places or protect the odd NPC is feeling a bit repetitive now. In truth, it still feels like the same thing in each zone of the game, which in turn, feels like the same thing in each (mostly) MMO.