i dun think of me as held hostage by a sub fee(after all as op said its volunterily to pay no1s holding a gun to yur head ) and i definitly dun care if ppl ave got better gear thn me it doesnt affect my game
i kno for ex i wont b takin the lich king down or tht dragon either my gameplayin skill & gear aint up for tht but i aint complaining over tht sure id like to do it someday but thats besides the point yu decide what to compare to either ppl whos played longer or ppl and hence r higher lvld then yu or ppl round yur lvl with approx same gear. even if yu take a break for a yr or more its the ppl round yur lvl yu gotta compare to not some1 higher tht mightve played the whole time durin yur break :)in what way does that hinder yur gameplay yur enjoyment of the game? a game is to b somefin yu play to relax have fun meet ol friends mebbe make new ones n even blow of some steam by killin low lvl mobs well thts my opinion anyway
2 summartize my confusing inlay : yu the player decide how much to play to get value for money no1 else can
Originally posted by Bladestrom The hostage to sub thing is a misunderstanding of the underlying issue. Tier based progression holds you in that it punishes you for not playing- you return and you have fallen behind the power curve. Manipulative, insidious and out of date.
Thank heavens the folks at CCP found an excellent way to resolve the issue with time based skill training.
People still hate it.
I've never viewed sub fees this way, I see it as the company making the game available to me in a month, and its entirely up to me whether I play it a little or a lot.
I think it's pretty great if I end up getting like 50+ hours of fun out of game in a month, more if I have the free time, less if not.
I don't try to value the purchase by the minute, the sub fee is inconsequental for the most part, unless of course I'm paying for 5 subs at a time (which I have in the past)
But even then I still find MMORPG's to be the best entertainment value out there, damn movies cost me about 40.00 a throw, toss in the dinner before hand the wife insists on and I'm out close to 100.00 every Saturday night.
My gaming habit is small change compared to that, (and let's not even talk about the money my children drain from me)
Absolutely so true. I'm not a kid pinching pennies or budgeting my allowence to play games. The sub fee for most adults is of no consequence. In fact I would gladly pay $50 bucks a month if the game was freaking outstanding. I understand companies need to make money and I don't mind helping them do so as long as I enjoy their product.
In one step, you go from over-simplification, to needless over-complication. Impressive!
And there you have it. I have three children, ranging from 6 to 17, whom all have friends which do this. Each one of them have their own way of, either over-simplifying or over-complicating, when it suits their needs in order to impress upon you whichever point they may, at least believe that they have. The term "Held Hostage" is them attempting to pull at your drama strings and pursuade you into feeling sympathy to their percieved plight. If they place themselves into the victims role, they feel they have a stronger chance of villianizing their opponent, whether that party even knows they are the opponent or not.
This, in turn, also gives them a sense of bettering themselves for having pointed out how, they feel, they have been victimized.
In my opinion, it started out as a passive agressive stance, that eventually evolved into a way to strike back. They turn whichever enemy they have into a villian, attempting to gain a following from others, which further strengthens their resolve.
I have always wondered at how some people see a £2.50/wk spend as 'obliging' them to play or making them feel like the money was wasted if they didn't get maximum value from it...
I mean... £2.50?
How little would you actually have to play to not get value out of that? An hour? Two?
If you actually were playing less then this, why even bother with an MMO?
Maybe some words from a student will help this topic out, someone who can't pay one without considering the grand scale of costs. I'm on a budget. No that tight that I cannot afford a sub (or two, depending on how I define my beer budget ), but the fact that I pay a box fee + a sub for a game means that I feel entitled (yes!) to enjoyment, which is by my own standards. If I have no enjoyment, I might complain a bit, but the unsub button is the best way to voice that opinion and I hit it quite a few times. I've learned the hard way that only research leads to knowing enough to see the value of a game (or not). I've made my launch-and-fail mistakes and it taught me a lesson.
That being said, I feel the need to critically decide where I will spend my gaming budget on. Right now I want to buy GW2, but I'm out of cash. SWTOR got boring. I picked up WoW (never played it and I like exploring) for a whole 5 euros. This means I won't really care if I get any value out of WoW and I know I can't play the endgame as is. However, if I sub to the game, I have to justify that to myself and, let's assume I do want to play for another month, I need to justify spending that money on WoW instead of RIFT/SWTOR/beer (last one also being MM, not really O).
After having justified that (in this case it would be "I had fun last month, so I most likely will next month") and paying the fee, I feel I have to play. I paid for it, I decided I would have fun in the game, so I will have to play the game. This doesn't mean my time spent in-game isn't fun, but the fact that I feel the need to play the game over any other genre (RTS/FPS/etc) which I own also good and fun games in is because I pay the sub and I want to justify spending it (after having agreed/justified with myself to pay for the sub I feel like I need to make use of it). This leads to a feeling of being trapped.
I hope this might give another insight. Now nerf subs please!
TL;DR: Paying the sub leads to the feeling I have to play said subscription game over a game without one, as I need to justify spending the money mentally
ps: All examples from the OP about other costs, except for mobile phone (I have the cheapest subscription there) and music (spotify, but with 150+ hours a month that 5 euros is quite justified) everything is included in the rent/fixed costs.
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy And for MMORPGs ever so true...
In one step, you go from over-simplification, to needless over-complication. Impressive!
And there you have it. I have three children, ranging from 6 to 17, whom all have friends which do this. Each one of them have their own way of, either over-simplifying or over-complicating, when it suits their needs in order to impress upon you whichever point they may, at least believe that they have. The term "Held Hostage" is them attempting to pull at your drama strings and pursuade you into feeling sympathy to their percieved plight. If they place themselves into the victims role, they feel they have a stronger chance of villianizing their opponent, whether that party even knows they are the opponent or not.
This, in turn, also gives them a sense of bettering themselves for having pointed out how, they feel, they have been victimized.
In my opinion, it started out as a passive agressive stance, that eventually evolved into a way to strike back. They turn whichever enemy they have into a villian, attempting to gain a following from others, which further strengthens their resolve.
Bingo.
It's ok. Eventually, the players that pay all the cash shop funds will become too small to allow the game to artifically prop up the leechers. Then Darwin comes along.
Hope you have a well supplied and fortified computer room. Because the internet is going to go nuts when this happens.
I have always wondered at how some people see a £2.50/wk spend as 'obliging' them to play or making them feel like the money was wasted if they didn't get maximum value from it...
I mean... £2.50?
How little would you actually have to play to not get value out of that? An hour? Two?
If you actually were playing less then this, why even bother with an MMO?
The whole mentallity is confusing to me tbh.
Well, it takes me 50 minutes of work (after taxes) to pay a month sub. I would at least require at least 50 minutes per month?
A minimum wage job would take 2 hours. So, even with the crappiest job, they should expect about 2 hours of game play a month.
As for the leeching freeloaders? They earn 0 and should expect 0.
People feel an attachment to the database entries just as though they were real possessions (evidence: people are willing to spend real money on them and spend more money on some entries than on others). Anything that threatens to remove access to those database entries evokes the same emotional result as taking away a real item.
The last game with player housing that I was attached to definitely had very real pang of "stay subscribed or we burn your house down" blackmail to the decision to quit.
Looked at with cold, analytic eyes and honest reading of the legal terms of service, it's irrational to feel any sense of ownership to these database entries, but it's foolish to deny that in fact those attachments are very much is a part of the illusion we are buying into.
TL;DR: Paying the sub leads to the feeling I have to play said subscription game over a game without one, as I need to justify spending the money mentally
Yes, but even given that the problem isn't the sub...the problem is that you paid for it without having time to play it. I understand how that sense of obligation could eat at someone, but that's a very personal thing to ask a company to base it's business model off of.
The "sub obligation" certainly doesn't bother everyone. I'm subscribed to Rift, and I haven't played since GW2 came out. I probably won't play for a month or two. I definitely don't stress about it in any way shape or form - I like Trion and their product, and I'm happy to support them.
I guess subs are like peanut butter - some people are allergic to them, some don't mind them.
Originally posted by fenistil Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by fenistil@lizardbonesI understand and don't understand at same time.Why do you think like you're wasting anything if you don't play (alot I presume?)1. Do you think like you're wasting something if you don't talk as much as possible by cellphone if you have 'unlinited calls' plan?2. Or even if you have let's say 200 minutes "free" per month if the month ends? You then call anyone even if you had no intention just to use all of them?Take note. I am not attacking you. I am just simply curious.
1. I didn't say it was rational. It just is. As soon as the clock starts ticking on the time spent not playing, the feeling of wasting money starts. The time spent playing is irrelevant. I think it's because of the way subs are setup. I'm paying ahead of time, and haven't received my 'goods'. I'll have to play to get my money's worth. For some reason, the connection between time played and money paid doesn't exist. There is only a vague feeling on needing to play because I've already paid. Again, I never said this was a rational thing. It's part of my monkey brain and it often doesn't tell me why it does what it does. 2. With phones, it's not the same thing. I need to think about why for a bit because I'm still wondering myself. It could be that the phone service is paid for after the fact, so I get my service first, then pay for it. It could be something as simple as the fact that I have a physical product in my hand, available whenever I want it. It could be that I'm anti-social and the few bits of text and voice that I do use are more than enough for me. Not sure I can give you a good answer to that question. Again, keep in mind I never said this was a rational thing. I'm pointing out that it does exist and it's not based on a cost benefit type of value. Sure thanks for explaining.
I never felt like that though.
Maybe it is because I prefer to play one mmorpg for long peroids of time and don't want to change them often?
I don't like cash shops in mmorpg's because I never know how payment will look next week. I was few times shocked with new additions to CS that totally ruined for me peronally game. Of course I can quit playing and I have done that.
Thing is I don't want to. I want to play one mmorpg for a long time and being anxious if I would not have to leave next month is taking all pleasure from a game. Not to mention huge immersion break (CS worst offender here for me) that also decrease my enjoyment.
I could not pay subcription for in example some co-op game or simple instanced game like LoL or Bf3.
So if players treat mmorpg's same as above games I can understand why they don't want to pay sub.
Kinda explain why I almost don't play mmorpg's anymore. Currently they are not really that fundamentally diffrent from lobby games for me concerning huge changes they underwent in last ~8 years or so. That is just my personal opinion ofc.
--------
2. quick about phones. You tell about cell phone plan with getting new phone?
Imagine that you have phone already and you take plan without a phone.
They are usually at least twice cheaper if you don't take new phone with them.
In that case you kinda sing up for 1 or 2 year deal and pay montly and then get service ( phine conversation, sms, mms, mobile internet, etc).
Are you talking about phone service in the U.S.? If so, I'd like to know who your carrier is, because most carriers are locked into specific phones, and the phone service is not any cheaper if you bring your own phone.
Anyway, I've had some time to think about this while sitting in Dinner Theater.
Part of the issue with MMORPG subscriptions is the automated recurrence. If you had to approve the service each month, or it didn't continue, then I think more people would not feel like they are being "held hostage". I think more people would drop their subscriptions though, so that's probably why it doesn't work that way.
I think you're on to something with the subscriptions and phones thing. I do not have much interest in playing the same game for a very long period of time. I only wish to play a game for as long as I find it fun, and that's not likely to be a year's time. The idea being a subscription is that I will be playing a game for a long time. The intention of a subscription is the turn off, not the cost.
With phones, I have no interest in having the latest phone. If it lets me talk, text, and have internet access, I'm pretty much set. Perhaps that's why I don't feel the same way about phone service as I do MMORPG (or any other type of game).
If a player has no interest in playing a game for a long period of time, then the subscription, regardless of the cost, is a disincentive to play the game, even if they really like the game.
I do not know what you look like, but this is the point in a conversation where I'd say you're smarter than you look. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
$.50 a day to play a game? Wow that is nothing compared to how much I used to drop in the arcade per month. Another battle cry of the entitlement age I suppose. I am pretty sure that kids today would run away from the arcades in tears if faced with the level of competition that existed back then. You win you get to keep playing. You lose you move to the back of the line.
THe best part of it was the complete lack of balance. If you were terrible it showed. There was no magical progression gear that would put the playing field on a curve. You either won or lost. You did it with skill or maybe some dumb luck, but YOU did it.
I remember going to wal-mart back in the day and spending two weeks of allowance to try and beat RASTAN!. I finally beat that damn name and I was the ONLY person in that damn town who was good enough to be on the clear initials list . I was 9 years old then. I went back there every few weeks to check and I remained at the top until they wiped the machine.
I guess point is many "new age" gamers expect things to be handed to them. I call them the "game genie" type. Versus my type, who actually beat mike tysons punch out, battletoads, sector Z and other games. I never owned a stupid damn game genie.
Originally posted by Chiram Originally posted by TruthXHurts$.50 a day to play a game? Wow that is nothing compared to how much I used to drop in the arcade per month. Another battle cry of the entitlement age I suppose. I am pretty sure that kids today would run away from the arcades in tears if faced with the level of competition that existed back then. You win you get to keep playing. You lose you move to the back of the line.THe best part of it was the complete lack of balance. If you were terrible it showed. There was no magical progression gear that would put the playing field on a curve. You either won or lost. You did it with skill or maybe some dumb luck, but YOU did it.
I remember going to wal-mart back in the day and spending two weeks of allowance to try and beat RASTAN!. I finally beat that damn name and I was the ONLY person in that damn town who was good enough to be on the clear initials list . I was 9 years old then. I went back there every few weeks to check and I remained at the top until they wiped the machine.
I guess point is many "new age" gamers expect things to be handed to them. I call them the "game genie" type. Versus my type, who actually beat mike tysons punch out, battletoads, sector Z and other games. I never owned a stupid damn game genie.
Neither of these posts are very good arguments for anything.
The first post only considers the cost of the sub and nothing else.
The second post has nothing to do with subs. It's just an attempt to brag about a high score on a game cabinet.
Both posts are just a different way of saying, "I walked uphill in the snow both ways and I liked it!" Well, for good or ill, the world has made progress since them. Video games are in the house, not the arcade. We have computers that aren't just glorified game consoles. People get to choose from more than one game and they get to see opinions and reviews of a game as the games come up, not two weeks or a month later.
I played video games in arcades and in the little miles down the road from my house. I had to hop on my bike and ride in the summer sun for a good twenty or thirty minutes to play Pac-Man or that stupid Karate game. If I wanted to go to the real arcade, it was a good hour or two before I got there or I had to get my parents to drive me. I watched the arcades move into the Malls and become incredibly crowded and then I watched them die a gaudy, neon filled death. It was sad, but not too surprising.
You may be thinking to yourself that my last two paragraphs have nothing to do with subscriptions in MMORPG, and you'd be right.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The norm in video games is not to have a subsciption fee. That is why some people think they're wasting their money if they are not playing the game.
Also, in no other entertainment form is there a reason to extend what little content you have, or prevent fast consumption of that content. P2P games are not optimized for "maximum fun" but rather "maximum time". The finite content MMOs have, they want to water it down as much as possible: Add timesinks, travel time, grinds, redundant level-ups and other "fillers".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
The norm in video games is not to have a subsciption fee. That is why some people think they're wasting their money if they are not playing the game.
Also, in no other entertainment form is there a reason to extend what little content you have, or prevent fast consumption of that content. P2P games are not optimized for "maximum fun" but rather "maximum time". The finite content MMOs have, they want to water it down as much as possible: Add timesinks, travel time, grinds, redundant level-ups and other "fillers".
Actually, I see a lot of parallels with single player RPG titles from the 80's and 90's, they were full of timesinks, travel time and grinds to make players think they were getting 100+ hours of game time.
MMO's are just more blatant about it in order to keep you subbing, but the original ideas started before them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was just talking about this with my wife a few days ago. And I will admit, that paying a sub fee did create a bit of a obligated to play feeling for me. I didn't really pay much attention to it until I jumped in to GW2, and found that I was enjoying the game without feeling a need to stay on for extended periods of time. There was an absence of the, " I must rush to end game" experience that I had felt with previous sub based games.
Of course the amount paid is nominal, and there isn't anyone forcing you to play something you don't want to. However psychologically I do believe that the sub fee does create a small sense of urgency. This sense of urgency would vary from person to person. So for me, a small amount of incentive, however for someone with an addictive personality, it could be huge.
There are of course many other influences here, but the sub fee is definitely one of them.
Comments
i dun think of me as held hostage by a sub fee(after all as op said its volunterily to pay no1s holding a gun to yur head
) and i definitly dun care if ppl ave got better gear thn me it doesnt affect my game 
i kno for ex i wont b takin the lich king down or tht dragon either my gameplayin skill & gear aint up for tht but i aint complaining over tht sure id like to do it someday
but thats besides the point yu decide what to compare to either ppl whos played longer or ppl and hence r higher lvld then yu or ppl round yur lvl with approx same gear. even if yu take a break for a yr or more its the ppl round yur lvl yu gotta compare to not some1 higher tht mightve played the whole time durin yur break :)in what way does that hinder yur gameplay yur enjoyment of the game? a game is to b somefin yu play to relax have fun meet ol friends mebbe make new ones n even blow of some steam by killin low lvl mobs 
well thts my opinion anyway
2 summartize my confusing inlay : yu the player decide how much to play to get value for money no1 else can
Absolutely so true. I'm not a kid pinching pennies or budgeting my allowence to play games. The sub fee for most adults is of no consequence. In fact I would gladly pay $50 bucks a month if the game was freaking outstanding. I understand companies need to make money and I don't mind helping them do so as long as I enjoy their product.
And there you have it. I have three children, ranging from 6 to 17, whom all have friends which do this. Each one of them have their own way of, either over-simplifying or over-complicating, when it suits their needs in order to impress upon you whichever point they may, at least believe that they have. The term "Held Hostage" is them attempting to pull at your drama strings and pursuade you into feeling sympathy to their percieved plight. If they place themselves into the victims role, they feel they have a stronger chance of villianizing their opponent, whether that party even knows they are the opponent or not.
This, in turn, also gives them a sense of bettering themselves for having pointed out how, they feel, they have been victimized.
In my opinion, it started out as a passive agressive stance, that eventually evolved into a way to strike back. They turn whichever enemy they have into a villian, attempting to gain a following from others, which further strengthens their resolve.
I have always wondered at how some people see a £2.50/wk spend as 'obliging' them to play or making them feel like the money was wasted if they didn't get maximum value from it...
I mean... £2.50?
How little would you actually have to play to not get value out of that? An hour? Two?
If you actually were playing less then this, why even bother with an MMO?
The whole mentallity is confusing to me tbh.
Maybe some words from a student will help this topic out, someone who can't pay one without considering the grand scale of costs. I'm on a budget. No that tight that I cannot afford a sub (or two, depending on how I define my beer budget
), but the fact that I pay a box fee + a sub for a game means that I feel entitled (yes!) to enjoyment, which is by my own standards. If I have no enjoyment, I might complain a bit, but the unsub button is the best way to voice that opinion and I hit it quite a few times. I've learned the hard way that only research leads to knowing enough to see the value of a game (or not). I've made my launch-and-fail mistakes and it taught me a lesson.
That being said, I feel the need to critically decide where I will spend my gaming budget on. Right now I want to buy GW2, but I'm out of cash. SWTOR got boring. I picked up WoW (never played it and I like exploring) for a whole 5 euros. This means I won't really care if I get any value out of WoW and I know I can't play the endgame as is. However, if I sub to the game, I have to justify that to myself and, let's assume I do want to play for another month, I need to justify spending that money on WoW instead of RIFT/SWTOR/beer (last one also being MM, not really O).
After having justified that (in this case it would be "I had fun last month, so I most likely will next month") and paying the fee, I feel I have to play. I paid for it, I decided I would have fun in the game, so I will have to play the game. This doesn't mean my time spent in-game isn't fun, but the fact that I feel the need to play the game over any other genre (RTS/FPS/etc) which I own also good and fun games in is because I pay the sub and I want to justify spending it (after having agreed/justified with myself to pay for the sub I feel like I need to make use of it). This leads to a feeling of being trapped.
I hope this might give another insight. Now nerf subs please!
TL;DR: Paying the sub leads to the feeling I have to play said subscription game over a game without one, as I need to justify spending the money mentally
ps: All examples from the OP about other costs, except for mobile phone (I have the cheapest subscription there) and music (spotify, but with 150+ hours a month that 5 euros is quite justified) everything is included in the rent/fixed costs.
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
And for MMORPGs ever so true...
Bingo.
It's ok. Eventually, the players that pay all the cash shop funds will become too small to allow the game to artifically prop up the leechers. Then Darwin comes along.
Hope you have a well supplied and fortified computer room. Because the internet is going to go nuts when this happens.
Well, it takes me 50 minutes of work (after taxes) to pay a month sub. I would at least require at least 50 minutes per month?
A minimum wage job would take 2 hours. So, even with the crappiest job, they should expect about 2 hours of game play a month.
As for the leeching freeloaders? They earn 0 and should expect 0.
People feel an attachment to the database entries just as though they were real possessions (evidence: people are willing to spend real money on them and spend more money on some entries than on others). Anything that threatens to remove access to those database entries evokes the same emotional result as taking away a real item.
The last game with player housing that I was attached to definitely had very real pang of "stay subscribed or we burn your house down" blackmail to the decision to quit.
Looked at with cold, analytic eyes and honest reading of the legal terms of service, it's irrational to feel any sense of ownership to these database entries, but it's foolish to deny that in fact those attachments are very much is a part of the illusion we are buying into.
Yes, but even given that the problem isn't the sub...the problem is that you paid for it without having time to play it. I understand how that sense of obligation could eat at someone, but that's a very personal thing to ask a company to base it's business model off of.
The "sub obligation" certainly doesn't bother everyone. I'm subscribed to Rift, and I haven't played since GW2 came out. I probably won't play for a month or two. I definitely don't stress about it in any way shape or form - I like Trion and their product, and I'm happy to support them.
I guess subs are like peanut butter - some people are allergic to them, some don't mind them.
Sure thanks for explaining.
I never felt like that though.
Maybe it is because I prefer to play one mmorpg for long peroids of time and don't want to change them often?
I don't like cash shops in mmorpg's because I never know how payment will look next week. I was few times shocked with new additions to CS that totally ruined for me peronally game. Of course I can quit playing and I have done that.
Thing is I don't want to. I want to play one mmorpg for a long time and being anxious if I would not have to leave next month is taking all pleasure from a game. Not to mention huge immersion break (CS worst offender here for me) that also decrease my enjoyment.
I could not pay subcription for in example some co-op game or simple instanced game like LoL or Bf3.
So if players treat mmorpg's same as above games I can understand why they don't want to pay sub.
Kinda explain why I almost don't play mmorpg's anymore. Currently they are not really that fundamentally diffrent from lobby games for me concerning huge changes they underwent in last ~8 years or so. That is just my personal opinion ofc.
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2. quick about phones. You tell about cell phone plan with getting new phone?
Imagine that you have phone already and you take plan without a phone.
They are usually at least twice cheaper if you don't take new phone with them.
In that case you kinda sing up for 1 or 2 year deal and pay montly and then get service ( phine conversation, sms, mms, mobile internet, etc).
Are you talking about phone service in the U.S.? If so, I'd like to know who your carrier is, because most carriers are locked into specific phones, and the phone service is not any cheaper if you bring your own phone.
Anyway, I've had some time to think about this while sitting in Dinner Theater.
Part of the issue with MMORPG subscriptions is the automated recurrence. If you had to approve the service each month, or it didn't continue, then I think more people would not feel like they are being "held hostage". I think more people would drop their subscriptions though, so that's probably why it doesn't work that way.
I think you're on to something with the subscriptions and phones thing. I do not have much interest in playing the same game for a very long period of time. I only wish to play a game for as long as I find it fun, and that's not likely to be a year's time. The idea being a subscription is that I will be playing a game for a long time. The intention of a subscription is the turn off, not the cost.
With phones, I have no interest in having the latest phone. If it lets me talk, text, and have internet access, I'm pretty much set. Perhaps that's why I don't feel the same way about phone service as I do MMORPG (or any other type of game).
If a player has no interest in playing a game for a long period of time, then the subscription, regardless of the cost, is a disincentive to play the game, even if they really like the game.
I do not know what you look like, but this is the point in a conversation where I'd say you're smarter than you look. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I remember going to wal-mart back in the day and spending two weeks of allowance to try and beat RASTAN!. I finally beat that damn name and I was the ONLY person in that damn town who was good enough to be on the clear initials list
. I was 9 years old then. I went back there every few weeks to check and I remained at the top until they wiped the machine.
I guess point is many "new age" gamers expect things to be handed to them. I call them the "game genie" type. Versus my type, who actually beat mike tysons punch out, battletoads, sector Z and other games. I never owned a stupid damn game genie.
I remember going to wal-mart back in the day and spending two weeks of allowance to try and beat RASTAN!. I finally beat that damn name and I was the ONLY person in that damn town who was good enough to be on the clear initials list
. I was 9 years old then. I went back there every few weeks to check and I remained at the top until they wiped the machine.
I guess point is many "new age" gamers expect things to be handed to them. I call them the "game genie" type. Versus my type, who actually beat mike tysons punch out, battletoads, sector Z and other games. I never owned a stupid damn game genie.
Neither of these posts are very good arguments for anything.
The first post only considers the cost of the sub and nothing else.
The second post has nothing to do with subs. It's just an attempt to brag about a high score on a game cabinet.
Both posts are just a different way of saying, "I walked uphill in the snow both ways and I liked it!" Well, for good or ill, the world has made progress since them. Video games are in the house, not the arcade. We have computers that aren't just glorified game consoles. People get to choose from more than one game and they get to see opinions and reviews of a game as the games come up, not two weeks or a month later.
I played video games in arcades and in the little miles down the road from my house. I had to hop on my bike and ride in the summer sun for a good twenty or thirty minutes to play Pac-Man or that stupid Karate game. If I wanted to go to the real arcade, it was a good hour or two before I got there or I had to get my parents to drive me. I watched the arcades move into the Malls and become incredibly crowded and then I watched them die a gaudy, neon filled death. It was sad, but not too surprising.
You may be thinking to yourself that my last two paragraphs have nothing to do with subscriptions in MMORPG, and you'd be right.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The norm in video games is not to have a subsciption fee. That is why some people think they're wasting their money if they are not playing the game.
Also, in no other entertainment form is there a reason to extend what little content you have, or prevent fast consumption of that content. P2P games are not optimized for "maximum fun" but rather "maximum time". The finite content MMOs have, they want to water it down as much as possible: Add timesinks, travel time, grinds, redundant level-ups and other "fillers".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Actually, I see a lot of parallels with single player RPG titles from the 80's and 90's, they were full of timesinks, travel time and grinds to make players think they were getting 100+ hours of game time.
MMO's are just more blatant about it in order to keep you subbing, but the original ideas started before them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was just talking about this with my wife a few days ago. And I will admit, that paying a sub fee did create a bit of a obligated to play feeling for me. I didn't really pay much attention to it until I jumped in to GW2, and found that I was enjoying the game without feeling a need to stay on for extended periods of time. There was an absence of the, " I must rush to end game" experience that I had felt with previous sub based games.
Of course the amount paid is nominal, and there isn't anyone forcing you to play something you don't want to. However psychologically I do believe that the sub fee does create a small sense of urgency. This sense of urgency would vary from person to person. So for me, a small amount of incentive, however for someone with an addictive personality, it could be huge.
There are of course many other influences here, but the sub fee is definitely one of them.