I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
WoW has more purpose with its gear grind, for every 1 person who says they hate it here, there is 10,000 people not here who like it. Just saying. Get over your vocal minority, its puny.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Problem with GW 2's endgame, and I use that term losely, is that there is no variety. Heck the whole game lacks variety, you do the same thing at level 20 as you do 30 as you do 40 and if you manage to get to 80 you will continue doing the same thing.
This will get people bored and move on as there simply is no carrot nor stick it is just doing the same thing over and over.
This is sad as the game got some really innovative ideas like level scaling and interesting class mechanics but the gameplay simply lacks any variety. Even WvWvW quickly becomes boring as it is just flipping control points back and forth with no overarching goal.
If you are having fun at level cap then....BAM you have good end game! It's an opinion.
Not everyone wants to raid. Not everyone wants to pvp. Not everyone wants to decorate a house. Some of us just want to pet our kittys and listen to music by the fire.
Hero Evermore Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982. Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.
If you are having fun at level cap then....BAM you have good end game! It's an opinion.
Not everyone wants to raid. Not everyone wants to pvp. Not everyone wants to decorate a house. Some of us just want to pet our kittys and listen to music by the fire.
You are like .01 percentile. Point is moot.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
Day 1: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 2: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 3: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 4: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 5: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 6: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 7: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now. Raid, the same raid you've been running for two months now. Don't get your drop. Pretend that it matters and get ready to chase that carrot next week and yell at anyone who tells you it's just a pointless cycle.
Lather, rinse, repeat... Watch your MMO company laugh all the way to the bank as you and tens of thousands, if not millions, of others don't figure out how you're being taken...
But in those kind of games you have everything you have here (and more) and you have the option to do those dailiy's, raids, heroics if you like it. Or just do whatever you like. You just have more options than here. So how is having less content better?
Well typically themepark endgame is rated based on how fun the exclusive endgame rides are, and how repeatable.
Its very difficult to get replay value, even when its fun, if theres no measurable gain from doing it, which GW2 lacks.
Also there really isnt any form of exclusive endgame "ride" to look forward to.
The game really doesnt have endgame, and ive suspected all along, and still do, that endgame will be sold to you all for $60 soon enough.
To answer the generic question this thread poses: Themepark endgame needs an abundance of rides, an abundance of endgame progression, and some exclusivity involved (meaning not the same pvp instances you did on the trip to endgame)
So basically the game needs raids for those who want it, special endgame pvp instances for tose who want it, guild vs guild siege warfare for those who want it, along with perhaps a UNIQUE endgame mechanics that no ones done before.
The reality is all you get is some goofly mass pvp/pve map and farming materials for collectiable gear skins...
Sure...The best would be no end game at all. Dev have been useing the same platform for game developement forever. Only a small % have taken other paths (almost always indie Devs) which have zero money for backing.
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
WoW has more purpose with its gear grind, for every 1 person who says they hate it here, there is 10,000 people not here who like it. Just saying. Get over your vocal minority, its puny.
This really is a bad way to argument. Ofcause there is 10,000 more people that likes WoW geargrind than that post their complaints HERE. But that is not a meaningfull way to use numbers. This forum is small.
The point is that GW1 did away with vertical geargrind, and that was liked by its millions of players. The fact that you either deliberate or knowingly ignore is that WOW's endgame was and is only reached by a tiny fragment of its player base. I have seen numbers mentiend by developers that talks about around 2%.
While it is very meaningsfull for alot of thesse 2% to compete in the race to be better equipt than the others, it really just leaves endgame as something the rest (a staggering 98%) dreams off. Not something they do or is going to do.
The point is that ArenaNet have taken the concequences of that and done it different.
Alot of players simply don't understand this different approach as they are conditioned too think of endgame as something that separate the hardcore from the causal player in terms of stats on gear. But why should it ?
But since that is labelled endgame, powergamers don't get what you do then if that part is not in the game. The point is you do what the 98% always have done, play the whole game. maybe its time that vocal minority gets thats what GW2 is offering
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
Day 1: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 2: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 3: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 4: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 5: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 6: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now.
Day 7: Get up. Run daily. You know, the same daily you've done nine months in a row now. Raid, the same raid you've been running for two months now. Don't get your drop. Pretend that it matters and get ready to chase that carrot next week and yell at anyone who tells you it's just a pointless cycle.
Lather, rinse, repeat... Watch your MMO company laugh all the way to the bank as you and tens of thousands, if not millions, of others don't figure out how you're being taken...
Even that sounds better than what GW2 offers. But then again, you are using hyperbole to try to make a point. Since most games, I've played aren't really like that.
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
WoW has more purpose with its gear grind, for every 1 person who says they hate it here, there is 10,000 people not here who like it. Just saying. Get over your vocal minority, its puny.
This really is a bad way to argument. Ofcause there is 10,000 more people that likes WoW geargrind than that post their complaints HERE. But that is not a meaningfull way to use numbers. This forum is small.
The point is that GW1 did away with vertical geargrind, and that was liked by its millions of players. The fact that you either deliberate or knowingly ignore is that WOW's endgame was and is only reached by a tiny fragment of its player base. I have seen numbers mentiend by developers that talks about around 2%.
While it is very meaningsfull for alot of thesse 2% to compete in the race to be better equipt than the others, it really just leaves endgame as something the rest (a staggering 98%) dreams off. Not something they do or is going to do.
The point is that ArenaNet have taken the concequences of that and done it different.
Alot of players simply don't understand this different approach as they are conditioned too think of endgame as something that separate the hardcore from the causal player in terms of stats on gear. But why should it ?
But since that is labelled endgame, powergamers don't get what you do then if that part is not in the game. The point is you do what the 98% always have done, play the whole game. maybe its time that vocal minority gets thats what GW2 is offering
WOW's endgame was more than just the latest raids and more than just raids altogether. PvP battlegrounds is a part of its endgame. Do we have numbers of how many people experience any raid and how many have experienced the PvP battlegrounds? I can imagine those numbers to be very large.
As for understanding: I think that if we use "meaningful endgame" and "interesting endgame" instead of just "endgame" it would be easier to understand exactly what people mean rather than speculating about it. I would be surprised if people really think that any form of endgame is "something that separate the hardcore from the causal player in terms of stats on gear. ".
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
Good endgame? WTF dont you know? In order to have good end game in your mmorpg you need huge badly detailed INSTANCES where you go with 15 or 25 people, there's like monsters and bosses like in normal dungeons but they have 12454 times more health and does more damage since you have a tank in EPICS, more healers, and more DPS! You complete these dungeons-on-steroids to get EPIC LOOT for everyone and even more epic loot for the tank because he's like teh important.
When you are done farming the first one for your set, then you go on to the next one to REPLACE your previous set. In this second isolated dungeon should be different kind of textures compared to the first one. The mobs should be like more powerful, have different models (at least resized and retextured) and have more hitpoints and your farmable set should have around the same in comparison. Then you repeat this cycle upwards for about 7 years untill you have 200k hitpoints and deal 25k damage on average with autoattack compared to the 4k/1k ratio from where you begun 7 years earlier.
This cycle should stay relatively the same basically as long as people keep paying 15$ every month for it. It's easy to copypaste from year to year just changing some textures and beefing up numbers, and it makes you a shitload of money to keep those servers maintained.
That's how end game should be OFCOURSE. Otherwise it's MEANINGLESS!
WOW's endgame was more than just the latest raids and more than just raids altogether. PvP battlegrounds is a part of its endgame. Do we have numbers of how many people experience any raid and how many have experienced the PvP battlegrounds? I can imagine those numbers to be very large.
As for understanding: I think that if we use "meaningful endgame" and "interesting endgame" instead of just "endgame" it would be easier to understand exactly what people mean rather than speculating about it. I would be surprised if people really think that any form of endgame is "something that separate the hardcore from the causal player in terms of stats on gear. ".
you mean the PvP battlegrounds WoW added after Gw1 came out with its PvP that people claimed was a feature copied from GW1? Well lack of PvP is not where Gw2 really is up to debate , calling it endgame or not.
about the termslike meaningful endgame and interesting endgame. There is already something implyed in the term endgame, thats why i use terms like players are "conditioned".
My personal take on it is that if you can deal with and accept a horisontal progression then you can easely see what GW2 has to offer and can find a game in that to play after the intial rush through power pogression has been done.
If you are still expecting power progression as part of endgame then you just can't see an endgame, and rightly because that kind of endgame is not there. And that is a big thing for most of the old GW1 fans that it so and stays so.
But why else should players keep bringing the topic up here and other places "what is the endgame ?" if it wasn't because that can't see what separate the causual from the hardcore??
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
Good endgame? WTF dont you know? In order to have good end game in your mmorpg you need huge badly detailed INSTANCES where you go with 15 or 25 people, there's like monsters and bosses like in normal dungeons but they have 12454 times more health and does more damage since you have a tank in EPICS, more healers, and more DPS! You complete these dungeons-on-steroids to get EPIC LOOT for everyone and even more epic loot for the tank because he's like teh important.
When you are done farming the first one for your set, then you go on to the next one to REPLACE your previous set. In this second isolated dungeon should be different kind of textures compared to the first one. The mobs should be like more powerful, have different models (at least resized and retextured) and have more hitpoints and your farmable set should have around the same in comparison. Then you repeat this cycle upwards for about 7 years untill you have 200k hitpoints and deal 25k damage on average with autoattack compared to the 4k/1k ratio from where you begun 7 years earlier.
This cycle should stay relatively the same basically as long as people keep paying 15$ every month for it. It's easy to copypaste from year to year just changing some textures and beefing up numbers, and it makes you a shitload of money to keep those servers maintained.
That's how end game should be OFCOURSE. Otherwise it's MEANINGLESS!
You dn't need to do anything. That's the point. You just have more choices to do.
Let us see how GW2 offers end game:
- end game starts from level 1 - that can everyone say
- explore all maps, vistas, skill points, hearts - thats in every game
- run alts, do all storys, all events, all crafting professions - thats in every game
- you have dungeons in two mode - thats in every game
- you can farm stones for epic (and in this game you have actually are encurage not to finish dungeon but to farm just first boss) - seen
Only difference i saw is that you have less content here and you dont pay monthly fee. You grind repetitive hearts, all the same de, and other games just give you better rewards for your time and offer you all the same us here while you level but on last level they unlock arenas, rated BG, raids, heroic mode dungeons, challenges and here you don't unlock anything...
Here's the problem. The "dynamic" events just aren't fun to do after you've done them 10 or 20 times, let alone hundreds of times. So the game is pointless to play. Think about it for one minute. What keeps people playing something like Skyrim after they beat it? The many quests spread through out the world. The challenges they can take on etc. Playing the content is the reward. With GW2 and many other MMOs, it's just a chore and a means to progress so that you can do more chores and keep progressing just because our brains get pleasure from having a sense of progression.
The combat isn't fun, the social interaction is very poor, so naturally, when you lose the great feeling of progression, your only real reason for playing in the game fades away and realize it's not fun. You only think it's fun because you were getting these virtual rewards here and had a sense of progression which is what our brains really love. It's same chemical that releases when you kiss someone you like, when you eat something really good, when you get high, etc etc. I'm not saying GW2 is a bad game. It's no where near being great though.
As for end game content in general, player made content only sounds good on paper. In City of Heroes, it pretty much crippled the game because it was exploited and people were able to hit max level in just a day even after all the nerfs it went through. Taking away rewards would have meant no one but RPers would use it making it a waste of the devs time and money.
I imagine in a game where hunting down giant creatures or tackling really hard things that need real groups and tactics (not just a bunch of people hitting a giant monster together and then walking away from each other) in the game would make for great end game content. Going back and helping out new players is always a choice we have. It's a shame that they went back on having "unlimited levels" since they said that from the very start. Even f2p korean grindfests have that with their rebirthing systems. Without unlimited levels, the sense of progression fades away fast.
Also, the fact that it's so easy to get to the max level so fast is ridiculous. Does anyone remember when it took over a year for most people to get to the halfway point in the level range? I'm sure about 20 people that go to these forums do. The rest probably only heard of such games.
WOW's endgame was more than just the latest raids and more than just raids altogether. PvP battlegrounds is a part of its endgame. Do we have numbers of how many people experience any raid and how many have experienced the PvP battlegrounds? I can imagine those numbers to be very large.
As for understanding: I think that if we use "meaningful endgame" and "interesting endgame" instead of just "endgame" it would be easier to understand exactly what people mean rather than speculating about it. I would be surprised if people really think that any form of endgame is "something that separate the hardcore from the causal player in terms of stats on gear. ".
you mean the PvP battlegrounds WoW added after Gw1 came out with its PvP that people claimed was a feature copied from GW1? Well lack of PvP is not where Gw2 really is up to debate , calling it endgame or not.
about the termslike meaningful endgame and interesting endgame. There is already something implyed in the term endgame, thats why i use terms like players are "conditioned".
My personal take on it is that if you can deal with and accept a horisontal progression then you can easely see what GW2 has to offer and can find a game in that to play after the intial rush through power pogression has been done.
If you are still expecting power progression as part of endgame then you just can't see an endgame, and rightly because that kind of endgame is not there. And that is a big thing for most of the old GW1 fans that it so and stays so.
But why else should players keep bringing the topic up here and other places "what is the endgame ?" if it wasn't because that can't see what separate the causual from the hardcore??
Even if they think power progression (as in stats of your character) is necessary for an endgame to feel compelling, why does it necessarely have to do anything with seperating the casual from the hardcore? Why couldn't they just like the idea of making their character more powerful without needing to take consideration to how powerful other people are? After all, in several single player RPGs, people can enjoy just building their character and in those there aren't other people to compare to.
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
Good endgame? WTF dont you know? In order to have good end game in your mmorpg you need huge badly detailed INSTANCES where you go with 15 or 25 people, there's like monsters and bosses like in normal dungeons but they have 12454 times more health and does more damage since you have a tank in EPICS, more healers, and more DPS! You complete these dungeons-on-steroids to get EPIC LOOT for everyone and even more epic loot for the tank because he's like teh important.
When you are done farming the first one for your set, then you go on to the next one to REPLACE your previous set. In this second isolated dungeon should be different kind of textures compared to the first one. The mobs should be like more powerful, have different models (at least resized and retextured) and have more hitpoints and your farmable set should have around the same in comparison. Then you repeat this cycle upwards for about 7 years untill you have 200k hitpoints and deal 25k damage on average with autoattack compared to the 4k/1k ratio from where you begun 7 years earlier.
This cycle should stay relatively the same basically as long as people keep paying 15$ every month for it. It's easy to copypaste from year to year just changing some textures and beefing up numbers, and it makes you a shitload of money to keep those servers maintained.
That's how end game should be OFCOURSE. Otherwise it's MEANINGLESS!
You dn't need to do anything. That's the point. You just have more choices to do.
Let us see how GW2 offers end game:
- end game starts from level 1 - that can everyone say No
- explore all maps, vistas, skill points, hearts - thats in every game No
- run alts, do all storys, all events, all crafting professions - thats in every game No
- you have dungeons in two mode - thats in every game Yes
- you can farm stones for epic (and in this game you have actually are encurage not to finish dungeon but to farm just first boss) - seen Miss
Only difference i saw is that you have less content here and you dont pay monthly fee. You grind repetitive hearts, all the same de, and other games just give you better rewards for your time and offer you all the same us here while you level but on last level they unlock arenas, rated BG, raids, heroic mode dungeons, challenges and here you don't unlock anything... No
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
Good endgame? WTF dont you know? In order to have good end game in your mmorpg you need huge badly detailed INSTANCES where you go with 15 or 25 people, there's like monsters and bosses like in normal dungeons but they have 12454 times more health and does more damage since you have a tank in EPICS, more healers, and more DPS! You complete these dungeons-on-steroids to get EPIC LOOT for everyone and even more epic loot for the tank because he's like teh important.
When you are done farming the first one for your set, then you go on to the next one to REPLACE your previous set. In this second isolated dungeon should be different kind of textures compared to the first one. The mobs should be like more powerful, have different models (at least resized and retextured) and have more hitpoints and your farmable set should have around the same in comparison. Then you repeat this cycle upwards for about 7 years untill you have 200k hitpoints and deal 25k damage on average with autoattack compared to the 4k/1k ratio from where you begun 7 years earlier.
This cycle should stay relatively the same basically as long as people keep paying 15$ every month for it. It's easy to copypaste from year to year just changing some textures and beefing up numbers, and it makes you a shitload of money to keep those servers maintained.
That's how end game should be OFCOURSE. Otherwise it's MEANINGLESS!
You dn't need to do anything. That's the point. You just have more choices to do.
Let us see how GW2 offers end game:
- end game starts from level 1 - that can everyone say No
- explore all maps, vistas, skill points, hearts - thats in every game No
- run alts, do all storys, all events, all crafting professions - thats in every game No
- you have dungeons in two mode - thats in every game Yes
- you can farm stones for epic (and in this game you have actually are encurage not to finish dungeon but to farm just first boss) - seen Miss
Only difference i saw is that you have less content here and you dont pay monthly fee. You grind repetitive hearts, all the same de, and other games just give you better rewards for your time and offer you all the same us here while you level but on last level they unlock arenas, rated BG, raids, heroic mode dungeons, challenges and here you don't unlock anything... No
1 win / 4 losses / 1 no contest!
Fail!
Than you didn't play other games or just delude yourself... And if you think heart is different from quest or doing vistas and exploring from plain exploring map achievements than you are really bought by marketing or don't understand topic/or my point and i feel sorry for you...
If you cant understand the point of my post than ask someone to explain it to you. It wasn't that every single MMO have every single feature. They have the most and some have more features some less, some have they own unique features gw2 don't have, but you just continue to delude yourself...
If you can't see Arenanet is trying to sell you "in other games leveling, exploring, achievements and everything you do is not end game but in our is. We have hearts no quests it's so different. If some players don't have anything to do they are just playing the game wrong. And lack of classic PvE content is the best thing happened to any MMO. Our dungeons are better because there is not trinity. And there is not grind. We don't give you better equipment grind at end game so all that grind you do for cosmetic gear, professions, leveling is not grind..."
Good luck experience all those unique "end game" things in gw2
"- you can farm stones for epic (and in this game you have actually are encourage not to finish dungeon but to farm just first boss) - seen Miss"
I meant legendary weapon, but you are just fun boy trolling anyway...
Almost everything in GW2 that people are calling "endgame", isn't.
It's no different than like when I capped in WoW, went back and chose to finsih the content I missed or skipped. (usually to be able to afford Epic Flight)
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
how so? it has more rewards/incentives than any other MMO out at release and actually more than many have now..
Yeah no, thats total BS. GW2 is half baked in that department. That's why its RvR is lacking. It has no yet implemented as many progression systems as the game it copied, DAoC. One there are realm ranks, relics, and a Darkness Falls style dungeon, then we'll talk.
wait what who said GW2 doesnt have endgame? it clearly does go level 1000-4000 times. My preference in endgame is open world pvp/WvW. I came here mainly and specifically for that content, having fun dont see the problem there.
All I care about is the pvp presence.
Looking at: The Repopulation Preordering: None Playing: Random Games
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
how so? it has more rewards/incentives than any other MMO out at release and actually more than many have now.. just because your idea of rewards/incentives may only mean making you more powerful that doesn't discount GW2 has plenty of rewards and incentives to continue playing. Progression isn't only power..
One thing I do hope they add though is some sort of progression for weapon skills or a system that is like the utitlity skill system and you can select differn't weapon skills for the same weapon.
Nope it doesn't,up against a game like Vanguard at release,GW2 is lacking in incentives and content.Saying it has more incetives/rewards than any other MMO at release is just over zealous fan talk.
It's always boring when someone comes in pretends failure/niche MMO X, Y or Z was the pinnacle. If it was, we'd have all played it. But, in reality, it wasn't. It was a pile of crap and. at best, a niche game.
Especially Vanguard which burned and died its first month. Friggin' Toon Town Online did better.
It's always funny when someone doesn't know what they are talking about.Vanguard died the first month you say, so Vanguard has not been played by anyone since the first month of release.
Strange you should say that,are you sure you know what you are talking about?
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
how so? it has more rewards/incentives than any other MMO out at release and actually more than many have now..
Yeah no, thats total BS. GW2 is half baked in that department. That's why its RvR is lacking. It has no yet implemented as many progression systems as the game it copied, DAoC. One there are realm ranks, relics, and a Darkness Falls style dungeon, then we'll talk.
I agree,they should of had a Darkness Falls type dungeon from the very start,imagine that.As for the comment quoted,i had to laugh at that myself.
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WoW has more purpose with its gear grind, for every 1 person who says they hate it here, there is 10,000 people not here who like it. Just saying. Get over your vocal minority, its puny.
Problem with GW 2's endgame, and I use that term losely, is that there is no variety. Heck the whole game lacks variety, you do the same thing at level 20 as you do 30 as you do 40 and if you manage to get to 80 you will continue doing the same thing.
This will get people bored and move on as there simply is no carrot nor stick it is just doing the same thing over and over.
This is sad as the game got some really innovative ideas like level scaling and interesting class mechanics but the gameplay simply lacks any variety. Even WvWvW quickly becomes boring as it is just flipping control points back and forth with no overarching goal.
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If you are having fun at level cap then....BAM you have good end game! It's an opinion.
Not everyone wants to raid. Not everyone wants to pvp. Not everyone wants to decorate a house. Some of us just want to pet our kittys and listen to music by the fire.
Hero Evermore
Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.
You are like .01 percentile. Point is moot.
Smoke what?
I like end game raiding. I like decorating a house. I like pvp.
Not everyone does. ur face is moot (just teasing) :P
Hero Evermore
Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.
But in those kind of games you have everything you have here (and more) and you have the option to do those dailiy's, raids, heroics if you like it. Or just do whatever you like. You just have more options than here. So how is having less content better?
Well typically themepark endgame is rated based on how fun the exclusive endgame rides are, and how repeatable.
Its very difficult to get replay value, even when its fun, if theres no measurable gain from doing it, which GW2 lacks.
Also there really isnt any form of exclusive endgame "ride" to look forward to.
The game really doesnt have endgame, and ive suspected all along, and still do, that endgame will be sold to you all for $60 soon enough.
To answer the generic question this thread poses: Themepark endgame needs an abundance of rides, an abundance of endgame progression, and some exclusivity involved (meaning not the same pvp instances you did on the trip to endgame)
So basically the game needs raids for those who want it, special endgame pvp instances for tose who want it, guild vs guild siege warfare for those who want it, along with perhaps a UNIQUE endgame mechanics that no ones done before.
The reality is all you get is some goofly mass pvp/pve map and farming materials for collectiable gear skins...
Sure...The best would be no end game at all. Dev have been useing the same platform for game developement forever. Only a small % have taken other paths (almost always indie Devs) which have zero money for backing.
This really is a bad way to argument. Ofcause there is 10,000 more people that likes WoW geargrind than that post their complaints HERE. But that is not a meaningfull way to use numbers. This forum is small.
The point is that GW1 did away with vertical geargrind, and that was liked by its millions of players. The fact that you either deliberate or knowingly ignore is that WOW's endgame was and is only reached by a tiny fragment of its player base. I have seen numbers mentiend by developers that talks about around 2%.
While it is very meaningsfull for alot of thesse 2% to compete in the race to be better equipt than the others, it really just leaves endgame as something the rest (a staggering 98%) dreams off. Not something they do or is going to do.
The point is that ArenaNet have taken the concequences of that and done it different.
Alot of players simply don't understand this different approach as they are conditioned too think of endgame as something that separate the hardcore from the causal player in terms of stats on gear. But why should it ?
But since that is labelled endgame, powergamers don't get what you do then if that part is not in the game. The point is you do what the 98% always have done, play the whole game. maybe its time that vocal minority gets thats what GW2 is offering
Even that sounds better than what GW2 offers. But then again, you are using hyperbole to try to make a point. Since most games, I've played aren't really like that.
WOW's endgame was more than just the latest raids and more than just raids altogether. PvP battlegrounds is a part of its endgame. Do we have numbers of how many people experience any raid and how many have experienced the PvP battlegrounds? I can imagine those numbers to be very large.
As for understanding: I think that if we use "meaningful endgame" and "interesting endgame" instead of just "endgame" it would be easier to understand exactly what people mean rather than speculating about it. I would be surprised if people really think that any form of endgame is "something that separate the hardcore from the causal player in terms of stats on gear. ".
Good endgame? WTF dont you know? In order to have good end game in your mmorpg you need huge badly detailed INSTANCES where you go with 15 or 25 people, there's like monsters and bosses like in normal dungeons but they have 12454 times more health and does more damage since you have a tank in EPICS, more healers, and more DPS! You complete these dungeons-on-steroids to get EPIC LOOT for everyone and even more epic loot for the tank because he's like teh important.
When you are done farming the first one for your set, then you go on to the next one to REPLACE your previous set. In this second isolated dungeon should be different kind of textures compared to the first one. The mobs should be like more powerful, have different models (at least resized and retextured) and have more hitpoints and your farmable set should have around the same in comparison. Then you repeat this cycle upwards for about 7 years untill you have 200k hitpoints and deal 25k damage on average with autoattack compared to the 4k/1k ratio from where you begun 7 years earlier.
This cycle should stay relatively the same basically as long as people keep paying 15$ every month for it. It's easy to copypaste from year to year just changing some textures and beefing up numbers, and it makes you a shitload of money to keep those servers maintained.
That's how end game should be OFCOURSE. Otherwise it's MEANINGLESS!
you mean the PvP battlegrounds WoW added after Gw1 came out with its PvP that people claimed was a feature copied from GW1? Well lack of PvP is not where Gw2 really is up to debate , calling it endgame or not.
about the termslike meaningful endgame and interesting endgame. There is already something implyed in the term endgame, thats why i use terms like players are "conditioned".
My personal take on it is that if you can deal with and accept a horisontal progression then you can easely see what GW2 has to offer and can find a game in that to play after the intial rush through power pogression has been done.
If you are still expecting power progression as part of endgame then you just can't see an endgame, and rightly because that kind of endgame is not there. And that is a big thing for most of the old GW1 fans that it so and stays so.
But why else should players keep bringing the topic up here and other places "what is the endgame ?" if it wasn't because that can't see what separate the causual from the hardcore??
You dn't need to do anything. That's the point. You just have more choices to do.
Let us see how GW2 offers end game:
- end game starts from level 1 - that can everyone say
- explore all maps, vistas, skill points, hearts - thats in every game
- run alts, do all storys, all events, all crafting professions - thats in every game
- you have dungeons in two mode - thats in every game
- you can farm stones for epic (and in this game you have actually are encurage not to finish dungeon but to farm just first boss) - seen
Only difference i saw is that you have less content here and you dont pay monthly fee. You grind repetitive hearts, all the same de, and other games just give you better rewards for your time and offer you all the same us here while you level but on last level they unlock arenas, rated BG, raids, heroic mode dungeons, challenges and here you don't unlock anything...
Here's the problem. The "dynamic" events just aren't fun to do after you've done them 10 or 20 times, let alone hundreds of times. So the game is pointless to play. Think about it for one minute. What keeps people playing something like Skyrim after they beat it? The many quests spread through out the world. The challenges they can take on etc. Playing the content is the reward. With GW2 and many other MMOs, it's just a chore and a means to progress so that you can do more chores and keep progressing just because our brains get pleasure from having a sense of progression.
The combat isn't fun, the social interaction is very poor, so naturally, when you lose the great feeling of progression, your only real reason for playing in the game fades away and realize it's not fun. You only think it's fun because you were getting these virtual rewards here and had a sense of progression which is what our brains really love. It's same chemical that releases when you kiss someone you like, when you eat something really good, when you get high, etc etc. I'm not saying GW2 is a bad game. It's no where near being great though.
As for end game content in general, player made content only sounds good on paper. In City of Heroes, it pretty much crippled the game because it was exploited and people were able to hit max level in just a day even after all the nerfs it went through. Taking away rewards would have meant no one but RPers would use it making it a waste of the devs time and money.
I imagine in a game where hunting down giant creatures or tackling really hard things that need real groups and tactics (not just a bunch of people hitting a giant monster together and then walking away from each other) in the game would make for great end game content. Going back and helping out new players is always a choice we have. It's a shame that they went back on having "unlimited levels" since they said that from the very start. Even f2p korean grindfests have that with their rebirthing systems. Without unlimited levels, the sense of progression fades away fast.
Also, the fact that it's so easy to get to the max level so fast is ridiculous. Does anyone remember when it took over a year for most people to get to the halfway point in the level range? I'm sure about 20 people that go to these forums do. The rest probably only heard of such games.
Even if they think power progression (as in stats of your character) is necessary for an endgame to feel compelling, why does it necessarely have to do anything with seperating the casual from the hardcore? Why couldn't they just like the idea of making their character more powerful without needing to take consideration to how powerful other people are? After all, in several single player RPGs, people can enjoy just building their character and in those there aren't other people to compare to.
1 win / 4 losses / 1 no contest!
Fail!
Than you didn't play other games or just delude yourself... And if you think heart is different from quest or doing vistas and exploring from plain exploring map achievements than you are really bought by marketing or don't understand topic/or my point and i feel sorry for you...
If you cant understand the point of my post than ask someone to explain it to you. It wasn't that every single MMO have every single feature. They have the most and some have more features some less, some have they own unique features gw2 don't have, but you just continue to delude yourself...
If you can't see Arenanet is trying to sell you "in other games leveling, exploring, achievements and everything you do is not end game but in our is. We have hearts no quests it's so different. If some players don't have anything to do they are just playing the game wrong. And lack of classic PvE content is the best thing happened to any MMO. Our dungeons are better because there is not trinity. And there is not grind. We don't give you better equipment grind at end game so all that grind you do for cosmetic gear, professions, leveling is not grind..."
Good luck experience all those unique "end game" things in gw2
"- you can farm stones for epic (and in this game you have actually are encourage not to finish dungeon but to farm just first boss) - seen Miss"
I meant legendary weapon, but you are just fun boy trolling anyway...
Almost everything in GW2 that people are calling "endgame", isn't.
It's no different than like when I capped in WoW, went back and chose to finsih the content I missed or skipped. (usually to be able to afford Epic Flight)
Yeah no, thats total BS. GW2 is half baked in that department. That's why its RvR is lacking. It has no yet implemented as many progression systems as the game it copied, DAoC. One there are realm ranks, relics, and a Darkness Falls style dungeon, then we'll talk.
wait what who said GW2 doesnt have endgame? it clearly does go level 1000-4000 times. My preference in endgame is open world pvp/WvW. I came here mainly and specifically for that content, having fun dont see the problem there.
All I care about is the pvp presence.
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
I agree !
www.archeagetr.com
www.archeageonlinetr.com
It's always funny when someone doesn't know what they are talking about.Vanguard died the first month you say, so Vanguard has not been played by anyone since the first month of release.
Strange you should say that,are you sure you know what you are talking about?
I agree,they should of had a Darkness Falls type dungeon from the very start,imagine that.As for the comment quoted,i had to laugh at that myself.