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Please describe what makes a good end game
Creslin321
Member Posts: 5,359
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
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Comments
That'd kill lore a little.
Fun is more important than lore and besides the lore can be adjusted to fit the new systems.
How so?
And i agree with hallife. Open ended activities, player driven content, sandboxy is the only "endgame" i can think of.
In themeparks, atleast so far, including GW2, it's either meaningless pvp or grind pve for armor, gear.
I have spent hours upon hours making dungeons in EQ2. And did it without breaking any lore.
Every MMO I have ever played seems to think 'End Game' equals "The Hamster Wheel Of Tedium", namely raiding to get better gear to go raiding to get gear to go raiding to get gear, on and on and on for eternity. Dear god, no, I just can't lower myself to play that. Even Morris Dancers and Train Spotters point and laugh at something that boring and pointless.
I'm hoping this one breaks the mould, but my hopes aren't high based on the previous games I've played. Fingers crossed.
more content than just one (or if you want to argue 2 and a half) extra zones would be a start.
Agreed, this for me is the way forward. STO tried it with varying degrees of success, but done properly it could be epic.
Get your players to make all your content, with moderation ofc
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Good end game is end game which has enough highly replayable content (PvP mostly) that when the player gets bored of one piece of content, he will move onto the next, and by the time he has gone through all of the content, that first piece of content is fresh in his mind, and the cycle starts over again ad infinitum. And then you bolster this highly replayable content further by adding rankings and seasons and seasonal rewards to each of them (I.E. WoW Arena). And then for low replayability content (PvE), you allow the player base to create it, rather than the development team (Since they can't make it quick enough).
No MMO company seems to fully get this though. It's frustrating.
Sorry perhaps I should not comment in this topic as I aint playing GW2, but....
End game for me would be a full player run economy, including item decay so there alway's be demand.
The so called endgame in today's MMORPG are so incredible limited as it consist mostly out of combat, combat and more combat. Nothing wrong with having combat in a MMORPG as it should definitly be in a MMORPG. But common this genre should be so far beyond just a combat game that it ammeses me to see that most current MMORPG turn into simple multiplayer FPS type games.
But then rises the question can the niche old school player substain the masses of today, cause due to my own experiance the old school player has the patience to slowly build him/her self up on the economy ladder where the current new gen player will complain a week after release that the ingame economy sucks....
So hmmmm the question is rather difficult to answer with so many different type of players, because what I asume to be a great end game I am sure many would not like it as the masses still show they go for more combat oriented MMO's. Still glad they have plenty of that but what about the old minority, those of us who truly grew up with this genre from it's beginning? Though not speaking for ALL old school MMORPG players but do feel due to my ingame experiance with ingame friends that there is a minority crowed out there that would like a MMORPG to go far beyond just being a combat online game.
Good end game.
After you've beaten the intended climax of the game (Zhaitan in GW2, the Lich King back when that was released, etc.) there's still plenty to do and have fun doing. If you "beat the final boss", so to speak, and there's nothing left to do then there's effectively no "end game". If you still amass hundreds (or so) hours having fun doing other things, that's good end game.
Oderint, dum metuant.
So a few things that I'd love but don't necessarily expect to see in GW2 include:
Having said that I still think there is a ton to do in GW2 and it meets my playstyle and preferences very well. I don't find what is already in the game to be lacking, but there is always room for improvement!
PvP that has meaning...
Knight Online is perfect example of this. They are the only ones that have ever done PvP the correct way.
Endgame to me = replayability .. Which is why to me things such as exploration or puzzles just don't cut it for myself .. since when they are done they are done ..
People say the gear grind is bad but unless you have unlimited content ( impossible ) it atleast gave people an option for replayability outside of PvP .. Because it add's a challenge and a goal
RPGS are about character progression. Ideally we wouldn't run out of content and it would go on forever. But that is the childlike wishful thinking way of looking at it. At end game we should just quit the game. Devs have to give us something to keep progression going. That means more power to the character for those who will say horizontal progression.
Historically, pnp rpgs didn't do well when they didn't have progression. It's a lesson that can be ignored if you want but don't complain about the results. Without progression, I don't see any mmorpg continuing to grow.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
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As a "finisher" (I like to see the story to its end), I appreciate a way for all players to see "an ending". One of the things that killed DCUO for me was that the world story was continued in the raids. I don't raid.
If all we are reffering to is tasks that are completed as endgame, then I say anthing I can do with-or-without a group of friends and still feel like I'm accomplishing something.
That help? No? I tried.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
And I find myself quoting you and agreeing with you yet again.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Same here, for many of us, the end game in WoW and WoW-like games, IE lobby games, were robbing us of time. In GW2 we won't be standing around in the major city waiting on a group to form to do anything meaningful, there will always be something meaningful to be doing. Finishing explores, finding every secret nook, doing every jump puzzle for the rewards, killing minor dragons (yes, those open world raids were minor dragons), taking towers.
And then you know what will most likely happen next when people want to leave and then come back to the game?
Nothing.
That's right, it's the way these games should have been from the start, gives incentive to put out good content in the right amount of time instead of freezing content for an entire year while your slow schedule and mismanagement can milk every monthly $15 out of your players.
Subscription models swindled and I'm one of the victims.
Well it's true. I couldn't imagine telling my wife during sex that I just want to get to my endgame. I'd be divorced. Why can't we all just enjoy the ride?!
what game is this?
I think this is a good answer.
Everything boils down to replayability in the end. Whether it's user created content, well designed PvP, a gear grind, etc... All that matters in the end is that the content, whatever it is, is enjoyable to replay.
And I really think this is highly subjective. Some people won't be happy unless they are chasing a carrot. Some people will be miserable if they realize they are just chasing a carrot. Some people can thrive on the competition of PvP for years and years while others shy away from it.
So I think that when you measure the "end-game" of a specific game, all you can really look at is the amount of options that it gives players to do, the "replayability factor" of those options, and the quality or "fun factor" of those options.
And in this respect, I honestly think GW2 will be highly replayable for a large amount of people, but not everyone of course.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
With regard to GW2 endgame. I'd like to see:
1) more interesting WvWvW
2) DE's that take over a zone and can move into another zone - just let the DE's overrun a zone sometimes and motivate the players to push them back
3) More interesting/challenging world bosses
4) Fun instances - not a grind for tokens
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)