Progression is a key part of an MMORPG, but I think the problem is that its almost rail roaded in themeparks to always be going forward.
In a sandbox game there is still the will for the character to progress, you still play to get better to accomplish something to explore here, or do this/that, but the fundamental difference is usually these goals are not defined by the game, and the 2nd difference is that there is a real chance that you could end up taking a step backwards
Themepark MMO's tend to not offer any form of punishment for sucking, you can only really go forward you cant go backwards, but to say there is only 1 way to progress is not strictly true. Sure character progression in terms of Level obtained is a primary way of progression which is swiftly followed by gear, but you also find achievement hunters, who's character doesnt really get stronger per sa by doing the tasks. Its almost ticking a box saying yes I have done that, it doesnt make you any better against bosses only shows that you have ticked the box.
I also think the trolls and haters throwing around simple people play themepark and intelligent people play sandbox, is simply not true. I think you just get a different feeling from playing them. I would liken it to food, if wow was a burger and eve was a salad, I like both. Sometimes I can go weeks eatting salads, but every now and again I just want something simple like a burger. Thats not to say theres anything wrong with either, its just personal taste. Too much of one thing is never a good thing, man should not live on burgers alone.
Theres still a place for both, genre's and the longer games have to establish themselves the more I think you will see them cater for the other camp. Like eve doing more PvE stuff, and wow doing more exploration or pet battles etc.
To the OP: you finally understand something about human nature?
It is simply fun to progress. It is more fun, if progression will give interesting abilities .. but bigger number suffice (cause new abilities are expensive to make).
It hit me like a brick wall reading the GW2 forums.
People were complaining about lack of "progression".
Now, this thread isn't about GW2, but I was confused.
There's no real progression in any of these games, you don't grow your character, your deal more damage and for balance, the bosses get more health. It's frivilous and pointless.
It hit me then, it's the skinner box.
The subgenre is controlled by it. In fact, all games are.
You get that rush when you do something, when you complete something, when you get something.
MMOs have cheapened it to giving big numbers out like halloween candy, because people can't complete something hard.
To keep people subbed you gotta keep handing out that candy, increase stats, make them feel like they're progressing.
Imagine if they gave nothing at all. You just finished the boss and "poof" you're done.
You think anyone would play it?
The subgenre is built on this, it's a core concept that can't change and that's a shame.
Welcome to the club that has been labeled & segregated to the "Sandbox" fanclub. We "got it" years ago either when WoW first released, or when SWG was destroyed out from under us (for me it was when I tried WoW for a week and was immediately turned off at how much "Skinner's Box" was relevant).
Now be warned, if you make any criticism regarding GW2's lack of progression you WILL get called a "troll" and "hater", so watch out. Take insults like that in stride, and understand that people will rabidly defend something they enjoy because they believe you're attacking them as a person because you're criticising something they enjoy.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Comments
Progression is a key part of an MMORPG, but I think the problem is that its almost rail roaded in themeparks to always be going forward.
In a sandbox game there is still the will for the character to progress, you still play to get better to accomplish something to explore here, or do this/that, but the fundamental difference is usually these goals are not defined by the game, and the 2nd difference is that there is a real chance that you could end up taking a step backwards
Themepark MMO's tend to not offer any form of punishment for sucking, you can only really go forward you cant go backwards, but to say there is only 1 way to progress is not strictly true. Sure character progression in terms of Level obtained is a primary way of progression which is swiftly followed by gear, but you also find achievement hunters, who's character doesnt really get stronger per sa by doing the tasks. Its almost ticking a box saying yes I have done that, it doesnt make you any better against bosses only shows that you have ticked the box.
I also think the trolls and haters throwing around simple people play themepark and intelligent people play sandbox, is simply not true. I think you just get a different feeling from playing them. I would liken it to food, if wow was a burger and eve was a salad, I like both. Sometimes I can go weeks eatting salads, but every now and again I just want something simple like a burger. Thats not to say theres anything wrong with either, its just personal taste. Too much of one thing is never a good thing, man should not live on burgers alone.
Theres still a place for both, genre's and the longer games have to establish themselves the more I think you will see them cater for the other camp. Like eve doing more PvE stuff, and wow doing more exploration or pet battles etc.
To the OP: you finally understand something about human nature?
It is simply fun to progress. It is more fun, if progression will give interesting abilities .. but bigger number suffice (cause new abilities are expensive to make).
Welcome to the club that has been labeled & segregated to the "Sandbox" fanclub. We "got it" years ago either when WoW first released, or when SWG was destroyed out from under us (for me it was when I tried WoW for a week and was immediately turned off at how much "Skinner's Box" was relevant).
Now be warned, if you make any criticism regarding GW2's lack of progression you WILL get called a "troll" and "hater", so watch out. Take insults like that in stride, and understand that people will rabidly defend something they enjoy because they believe you're attacking them as a person because you're criticising something they enjoy.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Careful, I've gotten warnings for rating posts.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville