How can you expect any other MMO to do as well as WoW if all they do is offer the same basic gameplay as WoW does. Who cares if combat is slightly different when, in the end, you're doing exactly what you spent the last few years doing in WoW.
Every single person I've convinced to try any one of the other MMO's that has released after WoW have all said the exacts same things.
I don't feel like doing it all over again.
I can do the same thing in WoW.
Can't really expect people to abandon what they've done over the course of a few years in one game, to go do it again in another game that's pretty much the same thing.
Blizzard is neither that good, and other devs aren't that bad.
You don't convince someone to stop eating steak by offering them another steak, and that is exactly what most MMO developers have been doing sinse 2004.
One thing that should be mentioned is most of WoW's players don't even know there are other MMOs out there. I talk to some WoW players I come across IRL, ask if they've played EverQuest or several other MMO titles, they don't even know what those are.
My guild is a multigame guild and we have a lot of people playing SWTOR. They are doing everything I used to do in WoW. They raid a few times a week. They get together and do some PvP. Really not seeing how it's any different.
Ok i give an example, i can level halfway in kalimdor and go over to eastern kingdom and carry on my leveling.... can swtor do that?
So are you complaining that you can not level in the oposite faction's area?
Erm... eastern kingdom is not opposite faction.......
I know that. I'm just trying to figure out what your point was supposed to be. Kalimdor and The Eastern Kingdoms are not in SWTOR so I guess you can't level in either place in SWTOR.
To the OP , either your a fanboi or really stupid. The only reason WoW is still succesful is because every other Dev copies it with some extra un-needed salt and pepper. The only game I see which will actually be a great experience is ArcheAge , the rest is / will be trash.
Originally posted by SuprGamerX To the OP , either your a fanboi or really stupid. The only reason WoW is still succesful is because every other Dev copies it with some extra un-needed salt and pepper. The only game I see which will actually be a great experience is ArcheAge , the rest is / will be trash.
Yes, that is the ONLY reason. There can be no other explanation! lol
This is a dumb thread. WoW was the first of its kind. I played it for 3 years and loved it. However, it is no different/better/worse than any other MMO that gets released.
In fact GW2 is basically the same game with better comabt. It has a few things different in a bad way than WoW and it has a few things different in a good way.
It's not about the developers. Its about the game and brand loyalty. Once a WoW player always a WoW player. It was an addiction and it was a fun game when we were younger that sucked us in. Its like your first love. You way never talk to her again but you will always love her.
How is gw2 the same game as wow with better combat?
Focus on end game raiding - no 2nd focus on gear grind tupperware pvp - no On the rails hub to hub questing - no Rapidly escalating vertical progression end game with never ending tiers of gear - no
Large scale pvp that isn't on a stupid timer - yep Equality of gear between outdoor pve, pvp, dungeons and CRAFTING - yep Level just as fast by not doing "quests" (e.g. exploring, crafting, WvW)- yep Easy grouping through auto grouping in the wilds and no trinity - yep Down leveling players so they can rerun low level content - yep anti grief features - no node, mob or quest item stealing
WoW was successful because, at least at the time, Blizzard knew exactly what its customers wanted; and they delivered a product that pushed all the right buttons. Among a host of other issues, too many developers try to push onto players their own visions of what an MMORPG should be
The one and ONLY reason why WoW has done so well is due to the FACT that BLIZZARD had an extremely large amount of computer players fans of the series they turned into an MMO.
No, SWTOR is not a comparisson to be made because SWTOR was not made for KOTOR fans, they even stated as much. They made SWTOR for MMO fans. The only real comparisson you can make in this genre to WoW is UO...a game made back when most people were still on dial-up and the internet was still thought as something just for nerds.
WoW was made for Warcraft fans...and Warcraft was one of the single most popular RTS series of all time. Brand recognition. Yes I played WoW, no, I dont think WoW is the best MMO ever made.
While I have enjoyed WoW in he past, and might even pick up MoP sometime in the future, I do not believe that Blizzard is "just that damn good" anymore.
Blizzard was "just that damn good" when Blizzard North made D2 & LoD.
Blizzard was "just that damn good" when they made Starcraft & Brood Wars.
Blizzard was "just that damn good" when they made classic WoW & TBC.
Proof enough that Blizzard has lost their tough in recent years: Cataclysm & Diablo 3. Total letdowns.
While I have enjoyed WoW in he past, and might even pick up MoP sometime in the future, I do not believe that Blizzard is "just that damn good" anymore.
Blizzard was "just that damn good" when Blizzard North made D2 & LoD.
Blizzard was "just that damn good" when they made Starcraft & Brood Wars.
Blizzard was "just that damn good" when they made classic WoW & TBC.
Proof enough that Blizzard has lost their tough in recent years: Cataclysm & Diablo 3. Total letdowns.
what the hell are you talking?
cataclysm was great addon ..just short..diablo 3 i agree i quit it after 2 weeks cause i saw now more motivatio after reaching inferno and blizzard did admitt they made a mistake with D3.
but dont bash on a WoW and catacysm. maybe u didnt like it but everyone i know had a great time playing it for ages.
oh and as it looks right now MoP will be the best addon sofar so no blizzard didnt loose its touch..all their games are a huge sucess in sales and the players love em..even i love D3 because i gor over 80 hours of gametime out of a 45€ game!
I don't take anything away from Blizzard. While I do not personally care for WoW, even the most ardent hater would be a complete idiot to try and dissmiss what Blizzard has accomplished. WoW took the best ideas out there in the MMO genre at the time, built on them, had an IP that was popular itself, but also coincided with the releases of most popular fantasy film franchise, The Lord of the Rings, and locked in the people who flocked to it. It was a perfect storm of MMO goodness for millions of online gamers.
That said, the reason that no other company has reached the level of success that Blizzard has is simple. Every AAA MMO title to launch since has tried to replicate what WoW did. They've taken the blueprint that Blizzard mastered, and tried to improve on it. This will never work. You cannot copy something that is already popular, and expect it to succeed.
As myself and others have stated before, it's the Coke II mistake every time a gaming company tries this. Coke II was Coke that tasted like Pepsi, and it failed miserably. Why? Because everyone who drank Pepsi kept drinking Pepsi, and everyone who liked Coke didn't want Coke that tasted like Pepsi. The same rule applies here. People who enjoy the WoW model and have already invested years in their WoW characters are not likely to start all over on a new game that plays exactly the same. And players who don't care for the WoW experience aren't going to stick around either. Adding to this problem is the amount of content that WoW has built up through the years. New games at launch have nowhere near the amount of content that WoW players are used to. So, people who leave WoW and other games to play whatever new game comes out often blow through the game's content, get bored, and return to whatever they were playing before.
If game companies want be in any way competitive with what WoW has accomplished, the first thing they need to do is NOT COPY THE BLIZZARD MODEL. Companies need to innovate MMO's that don't feel like "just another WoW clone." Throw out conventional MMO wisdom, and build an online experience from scratch, or at least from a templet that doesn't look anything like Blizzard's monster. Deliver an interesting, original, fun experience, and players will come. Continue to try copying what's dominated the genre for the last 8 years, and you can expect to be F2P a year after the game launches.
As myself and others have stated before, it's the Coke II mistake every time a gaming company tries this. Coke II was Coke that tasted like Pepsi, and it failed miserably. Why? Because everyone who drank Pepsi kept drinking Pepsi, and everyone who liked Coke didn't want Coke that tasted like Pepsi. The same rule applies here.
I think there could be something to the brainwashing theory. I could totally see a WoW player starting to play a MMO that ISN'T WoW and hearing this tiny subliminal voice in their head "This isn't the MMO you are looking for..." /jedi-mind-trick and *poof*...back to WoW.
For some odd reason Blizzard gets treat with much more patience than most developers, I have only seen 2 other developers be treat in the same manner and that was Bioware pre EA sale and Bethesda. Whilst I'm a fan of Bioware's games I can't understand the Bethesda passion either I've only ever seen them release buggy messes that again if it was an EA or such like title would be absolutely chastised but because it's Bethesda it's perfectly fine for the to ship a half assed game.
The reason i accept bethesda buggy games is becouse no one else makes game like that. Not one companie.
Elder scrolls are great games, fallout was amazing. I guess its to bothersome for other developers to deliver grand worlds like beth does and let you explore em
Im not loyal to a brand though so if some other developers makes a better game then beth i will probably buy that and when they have made a few games i truly like then they have earnd one steady costumer just like beth has.
Ot:
Bliazzard is good, i cant deny that. They no longer make games that i enjoy but i can stil see the quality in theyr games. I playd wow for 6months during end of vanilla and begining of Bc and its one of the best mmorpg games i have playd to date. I rank gw2 up there with em. Rest fall far behind.
Mmorpg devs usaly miss the smal touch that help theyr game, they might create great character progression, solid combat and grand worlds but without the smal touch it will never be a grand game.
A smal thing i remeber fondly about wow is when you talk with other people your charcter does smal gesture and when you laugh your charcter laugh. Smal stuff like that truly help your game to become better. It is smal and unimportant in the grand scheme of things, yet very important.
Originally posted by Psychow I think there could be something to the brainwashing theory. I could totally see a WoW player starting to play a MMO that ISN'T WoW and hearing this tiny subliminal voice in their head "This isn't the MMO you are looking for..." /jedi-mind-trick and *poof*...back to WoW.
That's entirely possible and even plausible given some of the statements made by some of the players. They all know that Tolkien completely ripped off WoW when he decided to write his books.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Originally posted by Psychow I think there could be something to the brainwashing theory. I could totally see a WoW player starting to play a MMO that ISN'T WoW and hearing this tiny subliminal voice in their head "This isn't the MMO you are looking for..." /jedi-mind-trick and *poof*...back to WoW.
That's entirely possible and even plausible given some of the statements made by some of the players. They all know that Tolkien completely ripped off WoW when he decided to write his books.
Bram Stoker did the same thing when he copied the Twilight movies and wrote Dracula.
Blizzard was made WoW at the right time, with the right mix of things to make it feel as it's own mix of the right things.
Comparatively any game later that tries to share a mix of WoW gets compared to WoW. Hence, WoW released at the right time and place, and making it easier for others to enjoy while to many it felt unique.
Also looking at the demographics, WoW only has a few million only in NA. That's actually expected considering the vastness of the Blizzard or Warcraft IP, and sharing lore with other popular fantasies as well making it a very popular fantasy game of elves, orcs and goblins. And WoW has been running for around 10 years, picking up more subs and retaining others with more content. So it's a few of those reasons.
There really isn't any game developer close to what Blizzard has going for them. Even BW as a successful RPG developer do not have the same loyalty or online experience provided by blizzard. It was also a developmental project of pooling their reputation, previous services, and the ever lasting appeal of an online MMO that also added to thR success of WoW.
If people dont forsee a long time appeal with an MMO it's probably not going to do well, and maybe F2P models work but that's very situational with updates being good enough as well since if an overall game is still of less quality than another and takes money then people will eventually stop investing in something they might feel is of less quality and the guise of F2P had run it's course and turned into P2P making it a bad opportunity cost in comparison to other MMOs.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Blizzard is by far the most talented. That doesn't mean they have ALL the talent tho. But they are #1 for a reason, and it isn't because of something stupid like advertising. Advertising may help sell boxes, but it doesn't help retain subs, which Blizzard has done very well over the life of WoW.
Hardly the most talent.
Please do not hype any gam.. oh wait, nevermind... forgot what forum I was on.
Comments
How can you expect any other MMO to do as well as WoW if all they do is offer the same basic gameplay as WoW does. Who cares if combat is slightly different when, in the end, you're doing exactly what you spent the last few years doing in WoW.
Every single person I've convinced to try any one of the other MMO's that has released after WoW have all said the exacts same things.
I don't feel like doing it all over again.
I can do the same thing in WoW.
Can't really expect people to abandon what they've done over the course of a few years in one game, to go do it again in another game that's pretty much the same thing.
Blizzard is neither that good, and other devs aren't that bad.
You don't convince someone to stop eating steak by offering them another steak, and that is exactly what most MMO developers have been doing sinse 2004.
I know that. I'm just trying to figure out what your point was supposed to be. Kalimdor and The Eastern Kingdoms are not in SWTOR so I guess you can't level in either place in SWTOR.
My theme song.
Yes, that is the ONLY reason. There can be no other explanation! lol
This is a dumb thread. WoW was the first of its kind. I played it for 3 years and loved it. However, it is no different/better/worse than any other MMO that gets released.
In fact GW2 is basically the same game with better comabt. It has a few things different in a bad way than WoW and it has a few things different in a good way.
It's not about the developers. Its about the game and brand loyalty. Once a WoW player always a WoW player. It was an addiction and it was a fun game when we were younger that sucked us in. Its like your first love. You way never talk to her again but you will always love her.
Focus on end game raiding - no
2nd focus on gear grind tupperware pvp - no
On the rails hub to hub questing - no
Rapidly escalating vertical progression end game with never ending tiers of gear - no
Large scale pvp that isn't on a stupid timer - yep
Equality of gear between outdoor pve, pvp, dungeons and CRAFTING - yep
Level just as fast by not doing "quests" (e.g. exploring, crafting, WvW)- yep
Easy grouping through auto grouping in the wilds and no trinity - yep
Down leveling players so they can rerun low level content - yep
anti grief features - no node, mob or quest item stealing
I will take option #3.
The one and ONLY reason why WoW has done so well is due to the FACT that BLIZZARD had an extremely large amount of computer players fans of the series they turned into an MMO.
No, SWTOR is not a comparisson to be made because SWTOR was not made for KOTOR fans, they even stated as much. They made SWTOR for MMO fans. The only real comparisson you can make in this genre to WoW is UO...a game made back when most people were still on dial-up and the internet was still thought as something just for nerds.
WoW was made for Warcraft fans...and Warcraft was one of the single most popular RTS series of all time. Brand recognition. Yes I played WoW, no, I dont think WoW is the best MMO ever made.
While I have enjoyed WoW in he past, and might even pick up MoP sometime in the future, I do not believe that Blizzard is "just that damn good" anymore.
Blizzard was "just that damn good" when Blizzard North made D2 & LoD.
Blizzard was "just that damn good" when they made Starcraft & Brood Wars.
Blizzard was "just that damn good" when they made classic WoW & TBC.
Proof enough that Blizzard has lost their tough in recent years: Cataclysm & Diablo 3. Total letdowns.
what the hell are you talking?
cataclysm was great addon ..just short..diablo 3 i agree i quit it after 2 weeks cause i saw now more motivatio after reaching inferno and blizzard did admitt they made a mistake with D3.
but dont bash on a WoW and catacysm. maybe u didnt like it but everyone i know had a great time playing it for ages.
oh and as it looks right now MoP will be the best addon sofar so no blizzard didnt loose its touch..all their games are a huge sucess in sales and the players love em..even i love D3 because i gor over 80 hours of gametime out of a 45€ game!
how many games u know can do that?
Fact is: Blizzard is just BOSS at what they do.
I don't take anything away from Blizzard. While I do not personally care for WoW, even the most ardent hater would be a complete idiot to try and dissmiss what Blizzard has accomplished. WoW took the best ideas out there in the MMO genre at the time, built on them, had an IP that was popular itself, but also coincided with the releases of most popular fantasy film franchise, The Lord of the Rings, and locked in the people who flocked to it. It was a perfect storm of MMO goodness for millions of online gamers.
That said, the reason that no other company has reached the level of success that Blizzard has is simple. Every AAA MMO title to launch since has tried to replicate what WoW did. They've taken the blueprint that Blizzard mastered, and tried to improve on it. This will never work. You cannot copy something that is already popular, and expect it to succeed.
As myself and others have stated before, it's the Coke II mistake every time a gaming company tries this. Coke II was Coke that tasted like Pepsi, and it failed miserably. Why? Because everyone who drank Pepsi kept drinking Pepsi, and everyone who liked Coke didn't want Coke that tasted like Pepsi. The same rule applies here. People who enjoy the WoW model and have already invested years in their WoW characters are not likely to start all over on a new game that plays exactly the same. And players who don't care for the WoW experience aren't going to stick around either. Adding to this problem is the amount of content that WoW has built up through the years. New games at launch have nowhere near the amount of content that WoW players are used to. So, people who leave WoW and other games to play whatever new game comes out often blow through the game's content, get bored, and return to whatever they were playing before.
If game companies want be in any way competitive with what WoW has accomplished, the first thing they need to do is NOT COPY THE BLIZZARD MODEL. Companies need to innovate MMO's that don't feel like "just another WoW clone." Throw out conventional MMO wisdom, and build an online experience from scratch, or at least from a templet that doesn't look anything like Blizzard's monster. Deliver an interesting, original, fun experience, and players will come. Continue to try copying what's dominated the genre for the last 8 years, and you can expect to be F2P a year after the game launches.
clearly it has nothing to do with blizard and everything to do with Mr. T and Chuck Norris
the real powers behind it all.
great analogy.
Nah the truck commercial "FOUR WHEELS OF FURY!!1@"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir5j3SIp9bk&feature=player_detailpage
Best commercial ever. "Let's dooo this." "Did you see me lay down the law!? I am the lawgivaaaahhh!!" lmfao.
I had forgotten about that. That is a pretty epic video.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The reason i accept bethesda buggy games is becouse no one else makes game like that. Not one companie.
Elder scrolls are great games, fallout was amazing. I guess its to bothersome for other developers to deliver grand worlds like beth does and let you explore em
Im not loyal to a brand though so if some other developers makes a better game then beth i will probably buy that and when they have made a few games i truly like then they have earnd one steady costumer just like beth has.
Ot:
Bliazzard is good, i cant deny that. They no longer make games that i enjoy but i can stil see the quality in theyr games. I playd wow for 6months during end of vanilla and begining of Bc and its one of the best mmorpg games i have playd to date. I rank gw2 up there with em. Rest fall far behind.
Mmorpg devs usaly miss the smal touch that help theyr game, they might create great character progression, solid combat and grand worlds but without the smal touch it will never be a grand game.
A smal thing i remeber fondly about wow is when you talk with other people your charcter does smal gesture and when you laugh your charcter laugh. Smal stuff like that truly help your game to become better. It is smal and unimportant in the grand scheme of things, yet very important.
That's entirely possible and even plausible given some of the statements made by some of the players. They all know that Tolkien completely ripped off WoW when he decided to write his books.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Bram Stoker did the same thing when he copied the Twilight movies and wrote Dracula.
Comparatively any game later that tries to share a mix of WoW gets compared to WoW. Hence, WoW released at the right time and place, and making it easier for others to enjoy while to many it felt unique.
Also looking at the demographics, WoW only has a few million only in NA. That's actually expected considering the vastness of the Blizzard or Warcraft IP, and sharing lore with other popular fantasies as well making it a very popular fantasy game of elves, orcs and goblins. And WoW has been running for around 10 years, picking up more subs and retaining others with more content. So it's a few of those reasons.
There really isn't any game developer close to what Blizzard has going for them. Even BW as a successful RPG developer do not have the same loyalty or online experience provided by blizzard. It was also a developmental project of pooling their reputation, previous services, and the ever lasting appeal of an online MMO that also added to thR success of WoW.
If people dont forsee a long time appeal with an MMO it's probably not going to do well, and maybe F2P models work but that's very situational with updates being good enough as well since if an overall game is still of less quality than another and takes money then people will eventually stop investing in something they might feel is of less quality and the guise of F2P had run it's course and turned into P2P making it a bad opportunity cost in comparison to other MMOs.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Hardly the most talent.
Please do not hype any gam.. oh wait, nevermind... forgot what forum I was on.