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where is Hardcore?
david361107
Member UncommonPosts: 279
As I've said before, I bought GW2, playing it. The feeling i'm getting from these forum and the members here at MMORPG is the same feeling im having, look at "meaningless" I'm kind of playing off what that op is saying. AAA game dev's are creating these games for the casual players, not the hardcore players, boss fights with no straight, no trinity, everything easyville.
Yes I'm going to do this- in vanilla WOW we would spend weeks trying to down bosses, moving our way through dungeons only to fail and try another day. Stopped playing WOW years ago when they went the way of the casuals, and when blizzard did that the subs started dropping.. The hardcore players chat was flowing all over the community, the casual players would be like, "i want to try that". So what if it took them a little longer to get gear to be able to raid, it's an MMORPG, it's made to never end. The Hardcore players stick with a game for long periods of time which in turns brings the casual players.
Why isn't there any 20 or 40 man raids? big huge epic battles with bosses that actually make you study and work hard to down. Do any of you remember downing a boss and everyone screaming over vent or teamspeak that you finally did it? I miss that and I want that. I want to see casual players crying on forums that the fights are way way too hard and they are big babies and can't do it, just love that.
Peace
Lascer
Comments
He was here earlier.
Wait, you siad Hardcore, my bad.
Btw, I'm sure you'll find out soon enough, but you want to play it wrong.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
My theme song.
Have to disagree with everyone that says WOW Vanilla wasn't hardcore. The 40 Man raids were and just based off some of the top guilds taking weeks to down one boss to be first. If it wasn't hardcore then it would have been done in days or hours like it is now. I can respond to any post with a bunch of fluff about this or that, or like one said, "you want hardcore then join the military and go into a warzone", been there done that so step dude.
Try to keep this based off games, not real life dude..so moving on.
I do agee with one post that EQ was epic and hardcore.
Point i'm trying to make- just think there needs a AAA dev that will bring some of that back. Sure not everyone will be able to see some dungeons or down some bosses but for them it's even cool hearing about those battles from friends and other players. GW2 needs raids and epic raids, like Beacker says, even 20-24 would be cool.
^ This
want to be hard, go inlist and hang out at a FB.
I have to agree with this. Anet was pretty clear this game was being designed as a casual mmo, they even use the world quite a lot. Even when they talk about WvW they use the word casual.
I feel there are some legittimate complaints that can be made about the game, but it not being a hardcore raiding game really is not one of them.
And vanilla WoW was not hardcore MMO, I'm not even a hardcore raider and I ran a near 200 man guild that raided in vanilla WoW.
EQ and Lineage 2 were hardcore MMO's. Darkfall, MO, EVE online, those are hardcore MMO's. 40 man raids are not hardcore, they aren't even hard.
Unless an MMO has real penalties for dying (like losing several hours of XP in L2), or item loss (or in the case of L2, both), then there's nothing really hardcore about the MMO.
Yes its found in the google video search.
I led my servers top Horde Raid guild in Vanilla WoW, the only raids that could be compared with EQ's hardcore raids would have to be early Ragnaros, some Black Wing Lair and the C'thun fight all of them were pre-nerf patches, you know when raiders bitched and whined on the forums about them being too hard. Nothing else came even close. In Molten Core, AQ and Naxx, once you got to a boss, it was just a matter of time before you killed the boss.
If you have ever had to break into Plane of Fear in EQ back in the early days, you would know what people mean by hardcore, WoW wasn't even close. 5-10 hours of corpse runs where those who were running the corpse runs needed corpse runs, your gear was on your corpse, it wasn't as simple as repair and run back. If you wanted your gear back, you fought for it and there was no way to complete some epics without clearing the Plane of Fear.
I have never viewed anything Guild Wars as even remotely hardcore, if you want that, look elsewhere. I am playing GW2 currently and having fun, but it is not for the hardcore raider mindset, it just isn't.
Since the game was advertised and designed to not have them and many players like that I don't see why GW2 needs it. I agree there should be games to cater to what players want, but why does an existing game that was designed not to have them turn around instead of a new game being released that wants to cater to what you like?
Why try to turn a game into something it's not instead of taking it for what it is or choosing a different game?
Well....
If you gave me 50-70 people in EQ1 who could play a lot and loved to raid; I would have a successful guild in EQ1.
Honestly EQ1 is not hard; its about prep and determination.
Hardest part of EQ1 should be obvious.
Really wish you people would give it a rest. You know exactly what the OP and everyone else means when they call a game hardcore.
Because while we constantly bitch about the games being too similar, we also can't stand the idea of actual change, no matter how minor it is or regardless of how beneficial the change actually is.
Just seems to be the nature of people in general.
Hardcore in WoW means playing 18 hours a day 7 days a week.
EQ raids are hardcore by the difficuly of the raids, totaly diffrent version of hardcore.
GW2 has a few events (prolly more) where ive seen groups wipe's 6 times in a row (escort quest ending inside a tomb that spawns a 1 eyed miniboss.
I bet you dint try explorer mode dungeons ? otherwise you woulnt be here claiming GW2 - easy
To each his own version of hardcore, whatever rolls your boat, but dont make false claims
The number of people with no lives and copious amounts of time on their hands is dwarfed by a large margin when compared to the more casual gaming populace. What you call hardcore most call a massive waste of time. GW2's advertisements indicated that it was removing such practices, not bringing them back.
The only place you're going to find the hardcore mentality is in free2play Asian grinders that haven't yet gotten the memo.
No. I play EvE and I don't call it hardcore either.
My theme song.
You have yet to interact with Tequatl, The Shatterer, or The Claw of Jormag. Am I right?
I only think that because those fights require huge groups of players to work together. Not in the "raid" sense that you're thinking of old where they're listening to one single raid commander giving order and such. No, instead there's small groups doing specific objectives like guarding the cannons, destroying walls, killing minions, attacking the dragon, and so on. Each dragon takes at least 30 players to kill, so thus the raid type.
There is no hardcore. GW 2 is not a hardcore game. Unfortunately, that's just a simple fact. It can be difficult, and it can be rewarding, but it was just not designed to meet that hardcore feeling that so many people want.
That being said, it doesn't try to disguise as hardcore. Quite frankly, it was something I think most people understood when they bought the game. I didn't buy the 60 dollar GW2 to raid for months and months. I bought it for something to pass the time on my nights and occasional afternoons. Really, the game is just a game. It's fun, that's that.
Just because an mmo is not hardcore does not mean it's a bad game. I have my hardcore fix. I bought Dark Souls, and when I feel like really getting into a game, I go in there, level, and pvp. Then, I try the bosses another time through. I study builds, etc. That's a really good, hardcore game that appeals to a good number of hardcore players. Guild Wars 2 is just.... not. Take Skyrim, for example. It's not a hardcore game. It's pretty easy to level. You can set the difficulty down. But that does not make it a bad game.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or anything (I'm sure you enjoy the game), but just try and take it as it is. Unfortunately, mmos aren't able to take the same risks that some other games can because of their development time and cost. Take what you got out of your 60 dollar purchase of GW2 and enjoy it. My advice.
Hmm, while the game did not want the raid grind design with gear, I don't see a problem in their philosophy if you just maybe add a "big dungeon" or two. C'mon now. It isn't necessary to go into a big dungeon with 14 of your guildies, pull of some epic comboes, and down a giant Rock Wurm, all while getting a sick looking shoulder plate (Not better stats, of course), but wouldn't it be fun, and very rewarding? It would be a lot of fun on that PvE aspect, and it would draw more players than send away.
Let's have just one for the non raiders eh
Because the people who pay and support AAA games are not hardcore gamers, because we're all poor from playing too many games.
Casual style players create casual style games they want to play. If you want to play a hardcore game like old UO and EQ were, then you need to follow those developers. People seem to have the impression that MMORPG games are now a social landscape to connect with people, but for the hardcore gamers it's not about the snot nosed people you meet online, it's about the challenge of the game. Developers don't get this(for the most part).
My suggestion: Darkfall: Unholy Wars and EQNext. MAYBE(hopefully) Archeage.
Sennheiser
Assist
Thage
While we can't "rule out" large group content, there is an official interview (I'll leave it to either you or Nadia to find if you need proof) where they state that they feel their game design balances best at 5 player content. They referred to their experiences in GW1 and the difficulty and challenges they had designing meaningful content for larger groups with the flexibility of their Profession and Skills system.
For large group activities, ANet provides Event Webs and the World Bosses. I'm sure over time both the Event Webs and fights like the Shatterer and Shadow Behemoth will be tuned and improved, and that new ones will be more involved and potentially challenging as ANet themselves explore the potential of their game systems while having more actual feedback to work with.
Having said that, it's still rather silly of the OP to be bemoaning the lack of "hardcore" in a game that by design wasn't going to feature gated raiding.
WoW vanilla was hard core compared to WoW present day. But WoW at its "hardest" was an absolute joke, in terms of hard core compared to the original Lineage 2 or the original UO. Yes, EQ1 counts too.