Originally posted by Badaboom Does it really affect windows or will it just hurt them in the end?
No gamer with Win7 64bit on their Pc will change or need to change to the Win8. Only the misinformed will jump to Win8 on a desktop Pc! All you need to do is a bare bone install of Win7 and it's just as fast and not bloated like Win8,but without of the piss poor choices MS made for Win8 as a desktop Pc OS.
No its worse they want to make the pc like the xbox Console games you pay both a cut to the store AND a cut to the platform.
This is morally wrong, the pc itself is an open platform, Microsoft want all the benefits of the pc as their platform, without actually building the things (or selling them as a load leader like they do xbox)
If Microsoft want to get into hardware and make a windowsbox you buy directly off them, they can do what the hell they like with it.
Originally posted by ShakyMo I hope this whole win 8 certification and store thing falls massively flat on its arse.
HOW DARE Microsoft charge me console prices for games when they haven't subsidized my hardware. It's pure cheek to try a console pricing system on something that isn't their hardware.
Every pc gamer should be against win 8
IF WIN 8 SUCCEEDS YOU WILL PAY 20-40% MORE FOR YOUR GAMES
I have a friend of mine who WAS on the windows development team and when I asked him about Windows 8 , he simply told me it's a pile of garbage.
How Microsoft Stress test their new OS is they leave the computer with the OS in a locked room for a week , the stats for Vista , 7 and 8 are:
Vista crashed in it's first day and could NOT recover , Windows 7 crashed once and recovered nicely , Windows 8 crashed three times and the last time was unable to boot.
He also mentioned the metro app as well , saying how it's a manopoly and it needs to stop , he STRONGLY recommended not to buy this and he even hopes that people follow suit , because if no one buys this piece of crap then they will scrap it and drop support fast!
Now this is coming from someone inside Microsoft , and how I know about the test ( not the Windows 8 one , that was from my pal ) I used to work for Microsoft as well as a technical advisor.
I agree with Shaky, every person who loves PC gaming needs to avoid this OS like the plague or we WILL pay double for our games or hell worse yet ,. some of our games might not even be supported and we might even see more closures of our favorite studios!
I TRULY Hope someone , some company out there and come up with a OS that beats the snot out of Windows , because it's time for change , and not to bend by the rules a regulations set forth by Microsoft .
Btw isnt Minecraft on iOS? It seems money are allways more...
and that guy is hypocrite.
This!
Microsoft launches their own Marketplace for Windows, like they already did for Windows Mobile and now Windows Phone.
Just like Apple already did with iOS and now MacOSX.
None of the developers had any trouble with Apple doing it with MacOSX!
But now suddenly they have a problem with Microsoft doing the same thing with Windows?
LOL! Just lol!
It's all about money. MS Windows is the largest consumer platform and now MS is going to take a piece of the pie (percentage of income) via the Marketplace.
Originally posted by Purutzil Good news, if this goes in this trend we might see a new rise in Linux and we will be having to pay $100 less for our new computers with having free operating systems that are more efficient then Windows or Macs. If some of the Linux developers are able to smooth out the experience for less tech savy people, we might see windows slide from its throne if they keep going down a slippery slope.
At the risk of going off topic, you know what the problem with Linux is?
They cant make up their god damn minds. There is no uniform framework for anything.
That And applications have to be built with a simple 90's mindset so the system as a whole is always 'rock solid'.
actualy the opposite is true. there's lots of frameworks for almost anything. you just need to pick one and state the dependencies. linux distros take care of the rest in there package systems. unlike windows where you have to pack in all the dependencies.
Btw isnt Minecraft on iOS? It seems money are allways more...
and that guy is hypocrite.
This!
Microsoft launches their own Marketplace for Windows, like they already did for Windows Mobile and now Windows Phone.
Just like Apple already did with iOS and now MacOSX.
None of the developers had any trouble with Apple doing it with MacOSX!
But now suddenly they have a problem with Microsoft doing the same thing with Windows?
LOL! Just lol!
It's all about money. MS Windows is the largest consumer platform and now MS is going to take a piece of the pie (percentage of income) via the Marketplace.
It's all about money! Nothing more. Nothing less.
the difference being, there is no way (legitimate one) to install apps on iOS other than app store. however nothing such was needed for windows untill now....
PC market has been up till now competed. You can buy hardware from anyone, operating system from Microsoft, and other software from anyone. But Microsoft has monopoly. If the decide to disallow any hardware or software running with their operating system, they have to power to smother out the competition.
I hope government will recognize this and take action against Microsoft. If Microsoft does not allow the hardware and software manufacturers and sellers to compete freely, then the only course of action is to split Microsoft into (at least) two companies and give current Windows source code and right to both to develop, sell, and compete against each other. The monopoly is so strong it won't be broken by any smaller action.
EDIT: And the reason why Apple should still be allowed to do similar limitation is because the make the whole device. Their hardware, their rules. PCs are not made by Microsoft. /EDIT
Btw isnt Minecraft on iOS? It seems money are allways more...
and that guy is hypocrite.
This!
Microsoft launches their own Marketplace for Windows, like they already did for Windows Mobile and now Windows Phone.
Just like Apple already did with iOS and now MacOSX.
None of the developers had any trouble with Apple doing it with MacOSX!
But now suddenly they have a problem with Microsoft doing the same thing with Windows?
LOL! Just lol!
It's all about money. MS Windows is the largest consumer platform and now MS is going to take a piece of the pie (percentage of income) via the Marketplace.
It's all about money! Nothing more. Nothing less.
the difference being, there is no way (legitimate one) to install apps on iOS other than app store. however nothing such was needed for windows untill now....
And it still isn't. You can still install apps and games on the desktop and create a shortcut in the metro menu.
What these developers want, is for their products (games) to appear in the marketplace and NOT pay for it!
So the problem isn't even PC, it's for the tablets that run on ARM processors and run Windows 8 RT, that has no desktop.
So basically Windows 8 RT (or just Windows RT) is basically what iOS is for the iPad. To install apps in Windows RT you NEED to do it via the Marketplace!
So I do not see the issue here. It's just these developers becoming too greedy or see Microsoft becoming their competition (Valve with their store, EA with their origin store, etc) and feel threatened by it.
Originally posted by Enigmatus I have not been keeping up with the times regarding Windows 8, but what exactly is bad about it?
It's complex but I'll try to explain it short.
You can devide the reasons into 2 parts.
-many people don't like it because it is basically the windows you know mashed together with a tablet OS, which is not very intuitive at times if you don't use a tablet, i.e. you use a PC
-the reason Valve, Blizzard and Notch don't like it is another reason, it has to do with the baked in store Windows 8 has, part of the certification process of Windows 8 includes certifying your program for the store, a store where Microsoft asks a cut of the profits. So if Notch wants to certify for Windows 8, or any other company, MS asks for store certification, which means their game will be available in the Windows 8 baked in store, and MS is asking for 30% iirc of the profit margin (once you sell over a certain amount of units, this decreases). Up till now this was in the hands of the companies themselves, like Steam, Blizzard store and Minecraft download, if the Windows 8 store becomes popular, games will be bought through Microsoft, which will mean a significant cut in the profits of game developers.
You mean how Value does with companies who want to use their platform? Value take a 30% cut from any title sold from outsider developers on Steam.
It's crappy all ways round, Microsoft has just been stupid enough not to have tried and made something workable to compete with way before this. Value can just turn this into a, 'big bad Microsoft trying to stop the poor little guys', when really there just trying to scupper a rival's attempt.
Microsoft are also idiotic for thinking anyone will pay for a monthly rate for a cloud based opearting system. It might work for Apple, they have the diehard fans and reliability on their side. Windows has neither of those, to most people it's a neccesary evil. It's why Windows 8, 9, 10 or whatever won't become a defacto choice for getting any software, within the OS. I also doubt Microsoft will start making ultimatiums to developers on the Direct X resources or frameworks accesibilty, if they don't sign up for their store. A OS that won't run half your applications quickly becomes a pointless purchase for a consumer.
There's no good or bad guys in this content delivery war, both of those companies want you to use their platform to pay a premium for using it for new releases, (Steam were the first ones to charge full box price for a digital edition of a game). Ultimately you have to be a savy consumer and go for the best deal you can find. Having faith in companies generally always lets you down.
I also doubt Microsoft will start making ultimatiums to developers on the Direct X resources or frameworks accesibilty, if they don't sign up for their store. A OS that won't run half your applications quickly becomes a pointless purchase for a consumer.
Originally posted by CalmOceans (I forgot to mention that you also don't "boot" into the desktop in Windows 8, you can only boot into Metro, and I believe there is no way around this atm)
There is a paid addon which boots and goes directly to the desktop. But even going into Metro, just click "Desktop" icon and you are there. Really not that big of a deal.
Originally posted by Badaboom Does it really affect windows or will it just hurt them in the end?
No gamer with Win7 64bit on their Pc will change or need to change to the Win8. Only the misinformed will jump to Win8 on a desktop Pc! All you need to do is a bare bone install of Win7 and it's just as fast and not bloated like Win8,but without of the piss poor choices MS made for Win8 as a desktop Pc OS.
Unless you want a MUCH FASTER bootup. Then go with Win8. That alone for me is worth the upgrade.
I really cant see MS locknig down their desktop OS.. they would be shooting themselves in the head.. one of the main reasons they have been the no1 desktop OS for so long is because it was an open platform and Microsoft know this.
When it comes to the RT phone and tablet systems then its a bad move on their part but wont make a different to me and my desktop PC.
If for some reason they do decide to lock down the desktop OS as well.. expect more and more games to become available on linux... and less and less on windows..
Originally posted by Spellshaper I am using Windows 8 since first beta. After CP I was a bit worried, but now when I have RTM I have to say its the best OS I have used.
I like it too. Not a fan of the metro UI (seems like the whole unnecessary implementation of the Ribbon interface), but in the end I am happy with it as a whole.
World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria developer Blizzard has revealed that is pro-Windows 8, and has stated that it will expand to the Microsoft OS once it launches.
Speaking with CVG, senior software engineer, Darren Williams confirmed the studio’s acceptance of Windows 8, “We put our games on platforms our players are already on, so yeah, it will be available on Windows 8. I think that we’ll go with the platforms that the most people are on. There’s no particular fear we have of Windows 8.”
You are taking into account its a fresh install of windows right?
All windows machines boot faster when they are clean. If you did a fresh win 7 install it would boot faster than a win 7 machine that's been accumulating crap in the registry and elsewhere for months.
Originally posted by ShakyMo You guys saying win 8 boots faster.
You are taking into account its a fresh install of windows right?
All windows machines boot faster when they are clean. If you did a fresh win 7 install it would boot faster than a win 7 machine that's been accumulating crap in the registry and elsewhere for months.
The Windows 8 machine that boots up in 5 secs has been on my pc for almost a month or so. It has AV, Office, games, etc on it. So this is not a fresh install. And I consistently get it to boot to login screen in 5 secs...I time each time.
Originally posted by Enigmatus I have not been keeping up with the times regarding Windows 8, but what exactly is bad about it?
Microsoft wants to control the market as well as the platform. Getting applications for your PC would be like downloading an app for your Android or iPhone. It's good, because it's convenient and makes it less likely that bad things will get into the ecosystem. It's bad because Microsoft would control the market. Things like open source software would be at an even bigger disadvantage than they are at now. Game developers would be trying to publish their games in the market owned by the company that doesn't want them to get games to customers. The owner of the market would rather the customers bought games for their game platform, not from other developers. Microsoft would have a monopoly on delivering software to end users. It's hard to say exactly what will happen, but the odds of this being good for consumers or developers, especially indie developers is pretty low.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by ShakyMo You guys saying win 8 boots faster.
You are taking into account its a fresh install of windows right?
All windows machines boot faster when they are clean. If you did a fresh win 7 install it would boot faster than a win 7 machine that's been accumulating crap in the registry and elsewhere for months.
Nope, not a fresh install in my case. I installed it as an upgrade over Windows 7 months ago. Still boots faster than it did under 7 itself.
Do you know why it boots so fast? I'm amazed myself but haven't gotten around to researching it...
Edit: They are hibernating the kernel session. I suspected they might be doing something like this...good to know.
Originally posted by ShakyMo You guys saying win 8 boots faster. You are taking into account its a fresh install of windows right? All windows machines boot faster when they are clean. If you did a fresh win 7 install it would boot faster than a win 7 machine that's been accumulating crap in the registry and elsewhere for months.
Nope, not a fresh install in my case. I installed it as an upgrade over Windows 7 months ago. Still boots faster than it did under 7 itself.
Do you know why it boots so fast? I'm amazed myself but haven't gotten around to researching it...
It's loading what you need and allowing you to work while it finishes loading the other stuff. It's also shutting down better, so that when it loads back up, it has everything it needs right there instead of looking all over the hard drive for it.
I'm sure there's other stuff, but in a nutshell, booting really didn't have to be as slow as it's been for the last 10 years.
** edit ** You answered your own question. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
No gamer with Win7 64bit on their Pc will change or need to change to the Win8. Only the misinformed will jump to Win8 on a desktop Pc! All you need to do is a bare bone install of Win7 and it's just as fast and not bloated like Win8,but without of the piss poor choices MS made for Win8 as a desktop Pc OS.
_____________________________
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
Console games you pay both a cut to the store AND a cut to the platform.
This is morally wrong, the pc itself is an open platform, Microsoft want all the benefits of the pc as their platform, without actually building the things (or selling them as a load leader like they do xbox)
If Microsoft want to get into hardware and make a windowsbox you buy directly off them, they can do what the hell they like with it.
I have a friend of mine who WAS on the windows development team and when I asked him about Windows 8 , he simply told me it's a pile of garbage.
How Microsoft Stress test their new OS is they leave the computer with the OS in a locked room for a week , the stats for Vista , 7 and 8 are:
Vista crashed in it's first day and could NOT recover , Windows 7 crashed once and recovered nicely , Windows 8 crashed three times and the last time was unable to boot.
He also mentioned the metro app as well , saying how it's a manopoly and it needs to stop , he STRONGLY recommended not to buy this and he even hopes that people follow suit , because if no one buys this piece of crap then they will scrap it and drop support fast!
Now this is coming from someone inside Microsoft , and how I know about the test ( not the Windows 8 one , that was from my pal ) I used to work for Microsoft as well as a technical advisor.
I agree with Shaky, every person who loves PC gaming needs to avoid this OS like the plague or we WILL pay double for our games or hell worse yet ,. some of our games might not even be supported and we might even see more closures of our favorite studios!
I TRULY Hope someone , some company out there and come up with a OS that beats the snot out of Windows , because it's time for change , and not to bend by the rules a regulations set forth by Microsoft .
I also agree that this is just plain greed!
Btw isnt Minecraft on iOS? It seems money are allways more...
and that guy is hypocrite.
_____________________________
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
Good MS get rid of him
_____________________________
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
This!
Microsoft launches their own Marketplace for Windows, like they already did for Windows Mobile and now Windows Phone.
Just like Apple already did with iOS and now MacOSX.
None of the developers had any trouble with Apple doing it with MacOSX!
But now suddenly they have a problem with Microsoft doing the same thing with Windows?
LOL! Just lol!
It's all about money. MS Windows is the largest consumer platform and now MS is going to take a piece of the pie (percentage of income) via the Marketplace.
It's all about money! Nothing more. Nothing less.
Microsoft do not build pcs
actualy the opposite is true. there's lots of frameworks for almost anything. you just need to pick one and state the dependencies. linux distros take care of the rest in there package systems. unlike windows where you have to pack in all the dependencies.
the difference being, there is no way (legitimate one) to install apps on iOS other than app store. however nothing such was needed for windows untill now....
PC market has been up till now competed. You can buy hardware from anyone, operating system from Microsoft, and other software from anyone. But Microsoft has monopoly. If the decide to disallow any hardware or software running with their operating system, they have to power to smother out the competition.
I hope government will recognize this and take action against Microsoft. If Microsoft does not allow the hardware and software manufacturers and sellers to compete freely, then the only course of action is to split Microsoft into (at least) two companies and give current Windows source code and right to both to develop, sell, and compete against each other. The monopoly is so strong it won't be broken by any smaller action.
EDIT: And the reason why Apple should still be allowed to do similar limitation is because the make the whole device. Their hardware, their rules. PCs are not made by Microsoft. /EDIT
And it still isn't. You can still install apps and games on the desktop and create a shortcut in the metro menu.
What these developers want, is for their products (games) to appear in the marketplace and NOT pay for it!
So the problem isn't even PC, it's for the tablets that run on ARM processors and run Windows 8 RT, that has no desktop.
So basically Windows 8 RT (or just Windows RT) is basically what iOS is for the iPad. To install apps in Windows RT you NEED to do it via the Marketplace!
So I do not see the issue here. It's just these developers becoming too greedy or see Microsoft becoming their competition (Valve with their store, EA with their origin store, etc) and feel threatened by it.
You mean how Value does with companies who want to use their platform? Value take a 30% cut from any title sold from outsider developers on Steam.
It's crappy all ways round, Microsoft has just been stupid enough not to have tried and made something workable to compete with way before this. Value can just turn this into a, 'big bad Microsoft trying to stop the poor little guys', when really there just trying to scupper a rival's attempt.
Microsoft are also idiotic for thinking anyone will pay for a monthly rate for a cloud based opearting system. It might work for Apple, they have the diehard fans and reliability on their side. Windows has neither of those, to most people it's a neccesary evil. It's why Windows 8, 9, 10 or whatever won't become a defacto choice for getting any software, within the OS. I also doubt Microsoft will start making ultimatiums to developers on the Direct X resources or frameworks accesibilty, if they don't sign up for their store. A OS that won't run half your applications quickly becomes a pointless purchase for a consumer.
There's no good or bad guys in this content delivery war, both of those companies want you to use their platform to pay a premium for using it for new releases, (Steam were the first ones to charge full box price for a digital edition of a game). Ultimately you have to be a savy consumer and go for the best deal you can find. Having faith in companies generally always lets you down.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
So far they have already banned some developers competing with them access to some APIs: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/opinion/software/3357013/microsofts-purported-windows-rt-firefox-ban-quick-explainer/
There is a paid addon which boots and goes directly to the desktop. But even going into Metro, just click "Desktop" icon and you are there. Really not that big of a deal.
Unless you want a MUCH FASTER bootup. Then go with Win8. That alone for me is worth the upgrade.
I really cant see MS locknig down their desktop OS.. they would be shooting themselves in the head.. one of the main reasons they have been the no1 desktop OS for so long is because it was an open platform and Microsoft know this.
When it comes to the RT phone and tablet systems then its a bad move on their part but wont make a different to me and my desktop PC.
If for some reason they do decide to lock down the desktop OS as well.. expect more and more games to become available on linux... and less and less on windows..
I like it too. Not a fan of the metro UI (seems like the whole unnecessary implementation of the Ribbon interface), but in the end I am happy with it as a whole.
its true - Blizzard supports Windows 8
http://www.vg247.com/2012/09/24/blizzard-has-no-particular-fear-over-windows-8/
World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria developer Blizzard has revealed that is pro-Windows 8, and has stated that it will expand to the Microsoft OS once it launches.
Speaking with CVG, senior software engineer, Darren Williams confirmed the studio’s acceptance of Windows 8, “We put our games on platforms our players are already on, so yeah, it will be available on Windows 8. I think that we’ll go with the platforms that the most people are on. There’s no particular fear we have of Windows 8.”
EQ2 fan sites
Props to every company not going with this shit.
I hope microsoft wakes up to notice that this is not the future they should be aiming for or that another company takes their spot.
And also: Buy windows 8, install a appstore, are you fucking kidding me.
Microsoft turning into a closed platform.. i have no words to describe how stupid they are
You are taking into account its a fresh install of windows right?
All windows machines boot faster when they are clean. If you did a fresh win 7 install it would boot faster than a win 7 machine that's been accumulating crap in the registry and elsewhere for months.
The Windows 8 machine that boots up in 5 secs has been on my pc for almost a month or so. It has AV, Office, games, etc on it. So this is not a fresh install. And I consistently get it to boot to login screen in 5 secs...I time each time.
Microsoft wants to control the market as well as the platform. Getting applications for your PC would be like downloading an app for your Android or iPhone. It's good, because it's convenient and makes it less likely that bad things will get into the ecosystem. It's bad because Microsoft would control the market. Things like open source software would be at an even bigger disadvantage than they are at now. Game developers would be trying to publish their games in the market owned by the company that doesn't want them to get games to customers. The owner of the market would rather the customers bought games for their game platform, not from other developers. Microsoft would have a monopoly on delivering software to end users. It's hard to say exactly what will happen, but the odds of this being good for consumers or developers, especially indie developers is pretty low.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Do you know why it boots so fast? I'm amazed myself but haven't gotten around to researching it...
Edit: They are hibernating the kernel session. I suspected they might be doing something like this...good to know.
It's loading what you need and allowing you to work while it finishes loading the other stuff. It's also shutting down better, so that when it loads back up, it has everything it needs right there instead of looking all over the hard drive for it.
I'm sure there's other stuff, but in a nutshell, booting really didn't have to be as slow as it's been for the last 10 years.
** edit **
You answered your own question. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.