The game pre-NGE was a ghost town. The game after NGE was a ghost town. Outside the sandbox elements it was a game with horrible physics, terrible game play and maps and a macro-haven.
The only reason so many remember this game so fondly is because of the lack of sandbox games of quality available. People want so badly to build a pretty little house and town that they forgot how bad SWG was overall. Strip the sandbox elements and slap them on top of an acually good mmo and then perhaps bring it back.
The great news is that SOE seems to think this as well but unlikely they regain the license anyway.
Originally posted by smh_alot Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG Originally posted by smh_alot
I read the online confessionals of some insiders. SWG, just like EQ and other MMO's, was bleeding subs significantly around that time. It was bleeding subs and another MMO with a different design model was doing spectacularly, that was the reason for the change.
Don't know where you get that from, but they weren't bleed subs - not until after they implemented NGE.
It was from the same sources that a number of hardcore SWG vets were quoting other stuff from on an SWG forum, if I can dig it up, I'll post it here. No offense, but unless you can come with hard proof to back up what you're saying, I'll believe what I read on those SWG threads and from those SWG insiders themselves
And iirc all MMO's were losing subs in 2005, SWG wasn't the exception.
I will dig up mine as well.
SWG didn't suffer significant drops until after NGE, which I recall lose more than 1/3rd.
Before that it was stagnant and declining, but that's not "bleeding" subs.
Bleeding is losing like swtor's numbers. That's bleeding.
Here's a quote I found, in a 'confessional' that Rubenfield did about his experiences in the time of SWG: http://rubenfield.com/?p=86. His blog was also quoted and referred to by Raph Koster iirc. In it he talks about how SWG was 'bleeding subscriptions', something like 10k per month.
Which wasn't that strange, all MMO's were losing subs during that period of time, so I don't see why it should be thought unrealistic that this was happening to SWG as well. Reason was obvious too: EQ2 and WoW were launched. I encountered enough other gamers, sometimes whole guilds, from MMO's like EQ and SWG too when I played both EQ2 and WoW in that time, and that was before any NGE or even CU.
2 points about that chart you posted, and thanks btw for the effort you made to look it up, still appreciated:
this came up in another thread and other discussions from time to time, but the figures of that site are part facts and part estimations. This can be determined bc if you look at the data points of the MMO's separately, there are quite a number for which have never been given any hard or official data, not above table nor below table. Secondly, it also shows a 50k decline before any CU, which coincides with the launch period of EQ2 and WoW. When you compare it with the other MMO graphcs, you'll see that same line of decline end of 2004- on to 2005 across multiple MMO's. Question remains though still, how many data points were hard facts and how much guesswork and estimation. However, the influence of WoW's super-rise in that time is hard to deny. Many of that initial rise came from other MMO's.
It's absolutely absurd the fact that even the NGE version of SWG was better than TOR. EVEN NGE!!!
Sad sad state of the MMO industry.
To you, maybe. But if that was really the case, SWG post-NGE would have had a LOT more people playing it than it did. Unless it had more people claiming they thought SWG post-NGE was better but not rly putting their money where their mouth is >.>
I think that the people that'd actually play SWG, pre or post NGE, today would be far, far less than many here on this site are hoping for. Sort of like how so many claimed they'd love to play the oldschool MMO's and how they were so much better, but when they get the opportunity like via EQ classic servers, only a tiny fraction actually does play them, and of those only a small part as soon as the first month(s) of nostalgia and rosy glasses have worn off.
Won't mention that there are ways to see without the use of rose tinted glasses... and it all looks great
I am feeling so nostalgic for some reason. Probably because I read a new article full of "SWG" comparisons. I seriously miss the good old days, my old city, my old guild, my house... *Sigh* I've made myself sad now. What happened? lol. Ah well, at least when I look back I can always say I was part of something awesome. In the grand scheme of things I don't think a great deal of people got to experience the game. Not compared to the vast number of MMO players out there today.
Starting at 47:25 is where and why the declined happened. I love the game and miss it dearly. And if they were to ever resurrect it I believe jedi should not be a part of the game.
shadowbane one of my fav pvp / mmos ..they tryd this..yah people can play it here and there but they cant even get a small little game like that to run correctly...doubt if someone could do this on a much larger scale like swg..would be cool..but not likely
I would honestly want swg to come back, but then I think about the holo grind, everything in that game was a grind. Run the tusken king 40 times trying to get that damn back pack. The community and abilities to create stuff and the pvp(post nge) was awesome.(I'm not saying they fixed pvp, but at the end the ability to defend cities was wicked, I still prefer pre nge, but they did add some cool stuff at the end). I miss space, it was a seperate game, and that was awesome(there was a ton of stuff I wish they would have added to space like capital ships, but it was still great).
Of course, I wonder if gamers could actually be patient enough for a game like swg to be successful today? The community is pretty damn impatient for content now. And do you remember all those times where you had to figure something out in swg? For yourself? Gamers need some serious hand holding now.
I wish repopulation had a triple A budget, cause that looks very familiar in terms of swg when I look at it.
Starting at 47:25 is where and why the declined happened. I love the game and miss it dearly. And if they were to ever resurrect it I believe jedi should not be a part of the game.
It's a Star Wars game...I played SWG from 2004-2009...I was part of HUGE Guilds...And I can honestly say that the percentage of people I ran into that shared the same view about Jedi were less than 10%...However I have many very close friends that I still game with who, like me, would have never even tried SWG had they not been able to aquire Jedi...No one was opposed to earning it...But a SW game without the ability to play Jedi is going to be a FAR bigger niche game than SWG was...Playable Jedi Class did not kill SWG...The NGE did...
I am huge Star Wars fan but SWG was worst crap ever made. That Poll is serious same as Hype on this site. Only crafting was good in SWG and rest was so bad and so unfinished. I hope you can remember that stupid combat It was so glitchy and laggy . Forget this game it is gonne forever and resurrection would be only waste of hardware
It's absolutely absurd the fact that even the NGE version of SWG was better than TOR. EVEN NGE!!!
Sad sad state of the MMO industry.
Yeah I agree. I'd rather play NGE than TOR. NGE wasn't perfect. In fact I didn't much care for it at all, especially when compared to Precu. But SWG even with NGE was more compelling than SWTOR.
I know some people like TOR for the story telling. But I've read hundreds of books, and now I have a kindle. I can download all the stories I want any time I want.
I'm really not surprised. It has some of the most outspoken followers I've ever seen. Even before I'd heard of SWG I knew that the NGE was atrocious and the biggest mistake in the mmo world. (exaggeration of course, but you get my point)
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
would love to see the old version of SWG again, yet:
-what about the crappy code? SWG may have a "crappy code" with a lot of lag in mass pvp battles but that isn't such a big deal. I figure I am not the only one who would trade "crappy code" and lag over crappy games with little content besides the usual.
-who's publishing it? Doesn't have to do much with swg now does it? If soe sells the code and someone / some company would host it somewhere, how many people would be playing
-bugs? See above for "crappy code". I rather have buggy swg then bug free swtor, if there ever happens to be a bugfree swtor
-lack of dungeons, pvp content? dungeons? are you from WoW? I don't understand! Kidding but since those are the kinds of things every mmo out there has including swg, though maybe not to the extend other usual games have like swtor this is the good thing about swg that it doesn't rely on them. Swg attracted a different kind of people then the usual login to pvp or group up to do instances crowd
-sandbox again or level based? Sandbox for obvious reasons. Nothing in the current mmo market who is doing that
-storylines on par with the movies this time? Forget story, swtor tries and fails. Ones you have "done them all" there is nothing more to see and when you look on youtube you can just see how the story goes. Besides, whatever you do in the swtor story, it always has the same outcome and there isn't anything you can do about someone elses story. If you want to stop the Jedi Knight from doing this or killing that... you won't succeed because hey.. it just happens no matter what you do.
I rather flip zones or static bases in swg, thats interactivity, then follow some predetermined storyline that nobody is going to change.
-treatment of the community? Has little to do with swg. It was an soe thing or rather, community relations department of soe thing that ruined it for a lot of people.
-yet again: WHO'S PUBLISHING IT? Whoever wants to publish it. If soe sells or gives the code to someone who is able to host it, doesn't matter to me.
those points above just might put me off if SWG would be revived, which it won't ofc.It'sfine that you make up your mind like that. However there are a lot of people who would like to see it come back which is why we talk about it here.
In any case, hopefully some people or maybe even companies will see the light and think about hosting a game like this, not everyone has to spend millions on a game and seeing it end up like the rest of the garbage out there. Extraordinary people with extraordinary ideas are everywhere, its time that some extraordinaries would step up and start.
if SWTOR wasn't such a disapointment I'm sure SWG would of been a lot lower. People just love starwars, even if the game itself wasn't that great. In some ways SWG had good elements, though it was poorly executed on many levels. The space combat was entertaining and the 'open world' feel different though over-all the game was pretty bland.
If SWTOR actually went with its likely original 'focus' (making it like Kotor with design choices) I bet SWG would of been a large after thought, even with TOR having a bit more compelx mechanics and different ways of working things then a traditional MMO. The fact it was designed as a generic MMO (I mean seriously, ToR should be the definition of generic, even with SW used its mechanics and such feel as generic as you can get) it makes SWG (a game that itself was not very good at all) look so amazing, and in some truth its direction was actually pretty interesting if it would of been done less poorly.
Comments
Totally!
Oh wait ...
The game pre-NGE was a ghost town. The game after NGE was a ghost town. Outside the sandbox elements it was a game with horrible physics, terrible game play and maps and a macro-haven.
The only reason so many remember this game so fondly is because of the lack of sandbox games of quality available. People want so badly to build a pretty little house and town that they forgot how bad SWG was overall. Strip the sandbox elements and slap them on top of an acually good mmo and then perhaps bring it back.
The great news is that SOE seems to think this as well but unlikely they regain the license anyway.
You stay sassy!
Don't know where you get that from, but they weren't bleed subs - not until after they implemented NGE.
It was from the same sources that a number of hardcore SWG vets were quoting other stuff from on an SWG forum, if I can dig it up, I'll post it here. No offense, but unless you can come with hard proof to back up what you're saying, I'll believe what I read on those SWG threads and from those SWG insiders themselves
And iirc all MMO's were losing subs in 2005, SWG wasn't the exception.I will dig up mine as well.
SWG didn't suffer significant drops until after NGE, which I recall lose more than 1/3rd.
Before that it was stagnant and declining, but that's not "bleeding" subs.
Bleeding is losing like swtor's numbers. That's bleeding.
Here's a quote I found, in a 'confessional' that Rubenfield did about his experiences in the time of SWG: http://rubenfield.com/?p=86. His blog was also quoted and referred to by Raph Koster iirc. In it he talks about how SWG was 'bleeding subscriptions', something like 10k per month.
Which wasn't that strange, all MMO's were losing subs during that period of time, so I don't see why it should be thought unrealistic that this was happening to SWG as well. Reason was obvious too: EQ2 and WoW were launched. I encountered enough other gamers, sometimes whole guilds, from MMO's like EQ and SWG too when I played both EQ2 and WoW in that time, and that was before any NGE or even CU.2 points about that chart you posted, and thanks btw for the effort you made to look it up, still appreciated:
this came up in another thread and other discussions from time to time, but the figures of that site are part facts and part estimations. This can be determined bc if you look at the data points of the MMO's separately, there are quite a number for which have never been given any hard or official data, not above table nor below table. Secondly, it also shows a 50k decline before any CU, which coincides with the launch period of EQ2 and WoW. When you compare it with the other MMO graphcs, you'll see that same line of decline end of 2004- on to 2005 across multiple MMO's. Question remains though still, how many data points were hard facts and how much guesswork and estimation. However, the influence of WoW's super-rise in that time is hard to deny. Many of that initial rise came from other MMO's.Adult gamers like sandbox games.
Kids do not.
Too few adults play games.
Themepark shit > sandbox games.
Won't mention that there are ways to see without the use of rose tinted glasses... and it all looks great
Agreed
http://www.raphkoster.com/2012/09/17/ogda-meeting/#more-4248
Starting at 47:25 is where and why the declined happened. I love the game and miss it dearly. And if they were to ever resurrect it I believe jedi should not be a part of the game.
shadowbane one of my fav pvp / mmos ..they tryd this..yah people can play it here and there but they cant even get a small little game like that to run correctly...doubt if someone could do this on a much larger scale like swg..would be cool..but not likely
I would honestly want swg to come back, but then I think about the holo grind, everything in that game was a grind. Run the tusken king 40 times trying to get that damn back pack. The community and abilities to create stuff and the pvp(post nge) was awesome.(I'm not saying they fixed pvp, but at the end the ability to defend cities was wicked, I still prefer pre nge, but they did add some cool stuff at the end). I miss space, it was a seperate game, and that was awesome(there was a ton of stuff I wish they would have added to space like capital ships, but it was still great).
Of course, I wonder if gamers could actually be patient enough for a game like swg to be successful today? The community is pretty damn impatient for content now. And do you remember all those times where you had to figure something out in swg? For yourself? Gamers need some serious hand holding now.
I wish repopulation had a triple A budget, cause that looks very familiar in terms of swg when I look at it.
It's a Star Wars game...I played SWG from 2004-2009...I was part of HUGE Guilds...And I can honestly say that the percentage of people I ran into that shared the same view about Jedi were less than 10%...However I have many very close friends that I still game with who, like me, would have never even tried SWG had they not been able to aquire Jedi...No one was opposed to earning it...But a SW game without the ability to play Jedi is going to be a FAR bigger niche game than SWG was...Playable Jedi Class did not kill SWG...The NGE did...
I really miss SWG...... and since we cannot speak about it in other forms Ill leave it at that.
+1
Not much competition
Yeah I agree. I'd rather play NGE than TOR. NGE wasn't perfect. In fact I didn't much care for it at all, especially when compared to Precu. But SWG even with NGE was more compelling than SWTOR.
I know some people like TOR for the story telling. But I've read hundreds of books, and now I have a kindle. I can download all the stories I want any time I want.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Imagine spending the money spent on SWTOR on "fixing" SWG pre cu. Sweeeeeeeeetness alert!!!!
Almost makes me cry.
In any case, hopefully some people or maybe even companies will see the light and think about hosting a game like this, not everyone has to spend millions on a game and seeing it end up like the rest of the garbage out there. Extraordinary people with extraordinary ideas are everywhere, its time that some extraordinaries would step up and start.
This is one horse that has been beaten to a pulp and stiil people pummel the corpse daily to try and see if there is any shred of life left.
There isn't, time to move on.
if SWTOR wasn't such a disapointment I'm sure SWG would of been a lot lower. People just love starwars, even if the game itself wasn't that great. In some ways SWG had good elements, though it was poorly executed on many levels. The space combat was entertaining and the 'open world' feel different though over-all the game was pretty bland.
If SWTOR actually went with its likely original 'focus' (making it like Kotor with design choices) I bet SWG would of been a large after thought, even with TOR having a bit more compelx mechanics and different ways of working things then a traditional MMO. The fact it was designed as a generic MMO (I mean seriously, ToR should be the definition of generic, even with SW used its mechanics and such feel as generic as you can get) it makes SWG (a game that itself was not very good at all) look so amazing, and in some truth its direction was actually pretty interesting if it would of been done less poorly.