I think if they fixed the space game and make if fantastic, than it wouldn't matter as much if the land-game is sub-par.
I believe that a lot of sci-fi/space fans has been hanging for a game that has some land elements but with fantastic space aspects. An Elite 3/X3 with a decent walkaround game would be the holy-grail of any sci-fi mmos, I think.
This is what I'm waiting for. I like eve, but it feels more like an rts(with the zooming out while your ship just sits there spamming fire), I've been waiting a good long time for a sci fi space game where it doesn't feel like I'm only getting half a game. STO gave me some hope, but the game was just so.....not what I would play.
If TOR had a great space game, I would be there, and in turn I would end up doing the stuff I don't really want to do(operations, flashpoints, warzones), cause you know how guild buddies can be, with the "c'mon man, we need one more"
Without the space game, or something that really hold's me, I ended up not logging on cause I didn't want to be dragged into doing things all the time that I don't really find fun(I like raiding, but somehow I always become the puzzle solver, and i hate it lol)
I keep waiting on that Holy-grail of sci-fi mmo's.(mass effect could have been it!), starwars should be it(it has everything a sci fi fan could want), just nobody ever gets it right.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw I hate to say it, but a polished Pre-CU SWG was better than SWTOR and that's what boggles my mind. It's like game developers are going backwards with their design ideas. That being said, I can sense a long dry spell before we see any game even remotely close to the complexity, diversity and emotional attatchment we had with SWG.
Given the complexity and depth of systems and features in this game, the odds that their "Space Upgrade" is anything other than a simplistic off the rails version of the rail shooter are worthy of being quoted by C3PO.
They should look at whatever they envision for this feature and make it about ten times more rich in features, depth, variation over time, and complexity.
Again, given what the rest of the game is like, it won't happen.
I would come back regardless. Never got a chance to play the game because of busy work but once i have more free time i will re sub. I don't care much for space part for me SW was never about space combat.
Given the complexity and depth of systems and features in this game, the odds that their "Space Upgrade" is anything other than a simplistic off the rails version of the rail shooter are worthy of being quoted by C3PO.
They should look at whatever they envision for this feature and make it about ten times more rich in features, depth, variation over time, and complexity.
Again, given what the rest of the game is like, it won't happen.
Gussing they are aiming at a BFII type of space sim, which is just a waste of time because it won't hold players in the long term.
While it's interesting as easy to step in it will gets old very fast.
Now a X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter game, not only can have simple missions to make the learning curve smooth and easy to start ; but also due to the deeper complexity to manage the ship it would keep players hooked for a long time, PvE and PvP wise.
OK, sci-fi MMO doesn't have to mean space, but, really now.. How do we not have something like X3: the MMO yet? Yeah, yeah, we do have EVE and it's great, but it's not what I'd call a space combat sim, it plays more like a space RTS.
Right now, if you're not playing EVE, your best bet is either Vendetta Online (it's cool, but has really low population), or Star Trek Online (it's not cool and it doesn't even feel like a space sim at all).
As for TOR... The game's design philosophy is so hell-bent on "directed gameplay" that I actually think that an open space game would feel too awkward.
Now before you list everything wrong with TOR, or say everything is fine as it is, my question is too people like me who quit cause they disliked alot of its current features. I complain about alot of TOR's features, so please don't cite everything wrong with the game lol, cause I've probably already posted it:)
Pre launch, bioware had a poll "what would you prefer in a space experience" where rail shooter and turret shooter where tied for worst on the poll, and JTL(Jump to Light Speed, the swg space game) and 3D space with capital ship boarding finished at the top.
Since then, little snippet's here and there have suggested that they have been working on a super secret space project, and they have said it's not the current system or an addition to the current system.(In fact they have plainly stated a massive space project has been in the works, since the poll's realizations came to light)
So the question is, if TOR launches a very cool space game, 3D like JTL, or BF2, would you try it out? I for one would, but I'm curious if it could be a game changer for TOR. I played JTL in SWG for about six months without playing any landbased gameplay, simply because I got addicted fast.
I'm always told "space is a dumb niche" and maybe people are right, but I like it, I'm just curious if others do? I would sub for a couple month's if its as revolutionary as Bioware is claiming, would you?
If they release something like that, then it will most likely happen after Star Wars: The Old Republic goes "free to play" so in my opinion there would be no reason not to check it out if someone was on the fence about playing it, assuming it's not a feature they would have to purchase inorder to experience it.
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
Now before you list everything wrong with TOR, or say everything is fine as it is, my question is too people like me who quit cause they disliked alot of its current features. I complain about alot of TOR's features, so please don't cite everything wrong with the game lol, cause I've probably already posted it:)
Pre launch, bioware had a poll "what would you prefer in a space experience" where rail shooter and turret shooter where tied for worst on the poll, and JTL(Jump to Light Speed, the swg space game) and 3D space with capital ship boarding finished at the top.
Since then, little snippet's here and there have suggested that they have been working on a super secret space project, and they have said it's not the current system or an addition to the current system.(In fact they have plainly stated a massive space project has been in the works, since the poll's realizations came to light)
So the question is, if TOR launches a very cool space game, 3D like JTL, or BF2, would you try it out? I for one would, but I'm curious if it could be a game changer for TOR. I played JTL in SWG for about six months without playing any landbased gameplay, simply because I got addicted fast.
I'm always told "space is a dumb niche" and maybe people are right, but I like it, I'm just curious if others do? I would sub for a couple month's if its as revolutionary as Bioware is claiming, would you?
If they release something like that, then it will most likely happen after Star Wars: The Old Republic goes "free to play" so in my opinion there would be no reason not to check it out if someone was on the fence about playing it, assuming it's not a feature they would have to purchase inorder to experience it.
From all the quotes I don't think it's expected till the first expansion. So I'm guessing at the one year mark. So chances are your right, it should be free to play then, so I think that helps with my decision to go back and at least give it a whirl(even though their free to play model excludes people like me that already had alts at level 50).
I'm excited for space combat in mmo's period, there should be good days ahead for space enthusiast, cause the god father is announcing his new game in a day and it's rumored it's an mmo(I hope there is finally a ground/space based hybrid that's good on both fronts, cause so far it's been either or since SWG, minus STO, which I won't even go into why that game pissed me off on both fronts)
Originally posted by halflife25 I would come back regardless. Never got a chance to play the game because of busy work but once i have more free time i will re sub. I don't care much for space part for me SW was never about space combat.
I'm fine with that perspective. I'm a diehard starwars fan, but jedi/sith isn't my thing, lol. Thats what should be great about starwars, the IP has something for everyone, minus orcs, which I'm told is a must for an mmo to be successful:)
Originally posted by halflife25 I would come back regardless. Never got a chance to play the game because of busy work but once i have more free time i will re sub. I don't care much for space part for me SW was never about space combat.
I'm fine with that perspective. I'm a diehard starwars fan, but jedi/sith isn't my thing, lol. Thats what should be great about starwars, the IP has something for everyone, minus orcs, which I'm told is a must for an mmo to be successful:)
Originally posted by halflife25 I would come back regardless. Never got a chance to play the game because of busy work but once i have more free time i will re sub. I don't care much for space part for me SW was never about space combat.
I'm fine with that perspective. I'm a diehard starwars fan, but jedi/sith isn't my thing, lol. Thats what should be great about starwars, the IP has something for everyone, minus orcs, which I'm told is a must for an mmo to be successful:)
WoW-Orcs√
LOTRO-Orcs√
Ultima-Orcs√
Everquest-Orcs√
DDO-Orcs√
Wahammer-Orcs√
Warhammer 40k-Orcs√
TESSO-Orcs√
Orcs Must Die! (Another √)
I think you are on to something here.
LOL, that was a quick response, you really know alot about games man!
Once I leave an mmo, nothing can get me back. Those same problems I had with the game will still be there.
With SWTOR the game world itself seemed so lifeless, nothing is gonna fix that anytime soon.
You return from time to time, but the luster is gone. What initially attracted you to the game remains, but every other problem persists.
I play games for awhile, but once I unsub even for a brief time, if I come back, it isn't for longer than two months max.
For you that may be true, but for me, I just don't return. Eve, Warhammer, Vanguard, GW1, DAOC,Asheron's Call, LOTRO, Everquest, World of Warcraft.....all mmo's I never returned to. Once I'm done, I'm done. Ultima Online has been the only game I've kept subscription to from the start of the game, I just keep the subscription because I have a keep to decorate all times of the year, heh.
So long as it was uninstanced, massive, and group oriented.
I have no interest in playing an MMO for small instanced arena fights, but in space.
I agree in general, although I think it would be nice to also have the option to play instanced "story" missions in space as well. The primary design should be around a massive space area and large-scale combat opportunities.
If they did it right, it would show they are staring to get "it". SWTOR is not beyond saving. It would be costly to save it though, and the price of development compared to what they are bringing in will determine how much more they will spend on it.
If they did revamp space and then started a planet revamp after that I think it would go along way. The game felt like a SP player game. The zones were to narrow and pathed.
3D space would show they understand where they screwed up and give me some faith that they may be able to salvage the game. If they put out a half backed 3D instanced PVP space game with no customization and invisable walls it would just further the games demise. It would foster more and more of the Bioware/EA don't get it and never will talk. "Their hubris is beyond the ancient Greeks" comments will be in every thread.
This is something they have to do right or it will be the final nail. If they do implement a new space feature I would venture to say the game will trurn one way or another at that point. It will either give people hope that new updates will fix the game in a meaningful way or it will destroy all hope and people won't care at all what they say or do. Hope will only last so long though. they will still have to fix the world in a meaningful way.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
At this point, the only thing that would bring me back would be something to the effect of the following quote:
"Star Wars the Old Republic, the game that you know, was an (not so?) elaborate hoax -- it was developed for reasons of secrecy. The actual Star Wars the Old Republic will be released in the first quarter of 2013"
Now before you list everything wrong with TOR, or say everything is fine as it is, my question is too people like me who quit cause they disliked alot of its current features. I complain about alot of TOR's features, so please don't cite everything wrong with the game lol, cause I've probably already posted it:)
Pre launch, bioware had a poll "what would you prefer in a space experience" where rail shooter and turret shooter where tied for worst on the poll, and JTL(Jump to Light Speed, the swg space game) and 3D space with capital ship boarding finished at the top.
Since then, little snippet's here and there have suggested that they have been working on a super secret space project, and they have said it's not the current system or an addition to the current system.(In fact they have plainly stated a massive space project has been in the works, since the poll's realizations came to light)
So the question is, if TOR launches a very cool space game, 3D like JTL, or BF2, would you try it out? I for one would, but I'm curious if it could be a game changer for TOR. I played JTL in SWG for about six months without playing any landbased gameplay, simply because I got addicted fast.
I'm always told "space is a dumb niche" and maybe people are right, but I like it, I'm just curious if others do? I would sub for a couple month's if its as revolutionary as Bioware is claiming, would you?
It would not be enough to bring me back....
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
If they did it right I would absolutely buy the game to check it out. This was by far one of my biggest peeves with TOR. The ground game is still not quite up to par, but if it were secondary to an epic space aspect the game suddenly becomes viable.
If swtor space was like jtl or better i would give the game a second chance, but they would neef to redo the crafting system tooin order for me to concider staying long term. While loved swg's jtl it wasnt just one feature that made swg so great. Dontt get me wrong, swg had stuff that didnt work too but it just did so much right..
Comments
This is what I'm waiting for. I like eve, but it feels more like an rts(with the zooming out while your ship just sits there spamming fire), I've been waiting a good long time for a sci fi space game where it doesn't feel like I'm only getting half a game. STO gave me some hope, but the game was just so.....not what I would play.
If TOR had a great space game, I would be there, and in turn I would end up doing the stuff I don't really want to do(operations, flashpoints, warzones), cause you know how guild buddies can be, with the "c'mon man, we need one more"
Without the space game, or something that really hold's me, I ended up not logging on cause I didn't want to be dragged into doing things all the time that I don't really find fun(I like raiding, but somehow I always become the puzzle solver, and i hate it lol)
I keep waiting on that Holy-grail of sci-fi mmo's.(mass effect could have been it!), starwars should be it(it has everything a sci fi fan could want), just nobody ever gets it right.
Fixed
Given the complexity and depth of systems and features in this game, the odds that their "Space Upgrade" is anything other than a simplistic off the rails version of the rail shooter are worthy of being quoted by C3PO.
They should look at whatever they envision for this feature and make it about ten times more rich in features, depth, variation over time, and complexity.
Again, given what the rest of the game is like, it won't happen.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Gussing they are aiming at a BFII type of space sim, which is just a waste of time because it won't hold players in the long term.
While it's interesting as easy to step in it will gets old very fast.
Now a X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter game, not only can have simple missions to make the learning curve smooth and easy to start ; but also due to the deeper complexity to manage the ship it would keep players hooked for a long time, PvE and PvP wise.
OK, sci-fi MMO doesn't have to mean space, but, really now.. How do we not have something like X3: the MMO yet? Yeah, yeah, we do have EVE and it's great, but it's not what I'd call a space combat sim, it plays more like a space RTS.
Right now, if you're not playing EVE, your best bet is either Vendetta Online (it's cool, but has really low population), or Star Trek Online (it's not cool and it doesn't even feel like a space sim at all).As for TOR... The game's design philosophy is so hell-bent on "directed gameplay" that I actually think that an open space game would feel too awkward.
Though I'll sure take it anyway!
If they release something like that, then it will most likely happen after Star Wars: The Old Republic goes "free to play" so in my opinion there would be no reason not to check it out if someone was on the fence about playing it, assuming it's not a feature they would have to purchase inorder to experience it.
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
From all the quotes I don't think it's expected till the first expansion. So I'm guessing at the one year mark. So chances are your right, it should be free to play then, so I think that helps with my decision to go back and at least give it a whirl(even though their free to play model excludes people like me that already had alts at level 50).
I'm excited for space combat in mmo's period, there should be good days ahead for space enthusiast, cause the god father is announcing his new game in a day and it's rumored it's an mmo(I hope there is finally a ground/space based hybrid that's good on both fronts, cause so far it's been either or since SWG, minus STO, which I won't even go into why that game pissed me off on both fronts)
I'm fine with that perspective. I'm a diehard starwars fan, but jedi/sith isn't my thing, lol. Thats what should be great about starwars, the IP has something for everyone, minus orcs, which I'm told is a must for an mmo to be successful:)
So long as it was uninstanced, massive, and group oriented.
I have no interest in playing an MMO for small instanced arena fights, but in space.
WoW-Orcs√
LOTRO-Orcs√
Ultima-Orcs√
Everquest-Orcs√
DDO-Orcs√
Wahammer-Orcs√
Warhammer 40k-Orcs√
TESSO-Orcs√
Orcs Must Die! (Another √)
I think you are on to something here.
LOL, that was a quick response, you really know alot about games man!
For you that may be true, but for me, I just don't return. Eve, Warhammer, Vanguard, GW1, DAOC,Asheron's Call, LOTRO, Everquest, World of Warcraft.....all mmo's I never returned to. Once I'm done, I'm done. Ultima Online has been the only game I've kept subscription to from the start of the game, I just keep the subscription because I have a keep to decorate all times of the year, heh.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I agree in general, although I think it would be nice to also have the option to play instanced "story" missions in space as well. The primary design should be around a massive space area and large-scale combat opportunities.
If they did it right, it would show they are staring to get "it". SWTOR is not beyond saving. It would be costly to save it though, and the price of development compared to what they are bringing in will determine how much more they will spend on it.
If they did revamp space and then started a planet revamp after that I think it would go along way. The game felt like a SP player game. The zones were to narrow and pathed.
3D space would show they understand where they screwed up and give me some faith that they may be able to salvage the game. If they put out a half backed 3D instanced PVP space game with no customization and invisable walls it would just further the games demise. It would foster more and more of the Bioware/EA don't get it and never will talk. "Their hubris is beyond the ancient Greeks" comments will be in every thread.
This is something they have to do right or it will be the final nail. If they do implement a new space feature I would venture to say the game will trurn one way or another at that point. It will either give people hope that new updates will fix the game in a meaningful way or it will destroy all hope and people won't care at all what they say or do. Hope will only last so long though. they will still have to fix the world in a meaningful way.
--John Ruskin
where that from?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
It would not be enough to bring me back....
Get rid of Fleet Stations, expand on existing planets and I'll come back.
I just hate how small Planets are and I hate how everyone sits in the fleet making it a lobby game and not a world game.
I´d also like to see a revamp of the existing planets, rather than new ones added which follow the same scheme.
I wonder what Makeb will be like, according to the videos there is not much to be seen that looks different in design.
And the exhaustion zones are simply a design mistake, no discussion about it. Might be all engine limitations though.
Not a fan of SWTOR but even i can tell that is BS.
space is not my concern
biggest probs in swtor for me are :
1 the none global chat channel
2 the very small storage slots
3 the unbalanced classes
4 95% of items are BoP
I've given too much money for that game in my opinion. And since it was not only lacking a good space system i'll pass.
In fact, i've put an X on that game in spring and am not really incline to go back.