The folks attempting to create Citadel of Sorcery are truly working on an innovative title that would revolutionize the MMORPG space, this really is iteration number 18 of the standard theme park MMO with some DAOC style RVR grafted on to the end game. See WAR.
I doubt with that concept CoS could even break 1million subs. Sure it will be great for people who want a sandbox MMO, but there aren't that many of them. It would lack a centralized end game which is what most people are looking for. Not minecraft as an MMO.
I'm not sure COS could break 500K subs, but the good news is, it doesn't have to. From where I sit, if a MMO appeals to the mass audience I'm pretty sure I'm not going to like it very much.
You may not recall, but DAOC was a niche product for its time, titles such as EQ1 and AC had larger player bases.
And if you really think about it, COS's concept for "end game" is actually closer to the TES concept (far more open ended) than TESO seems to be aiming for.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The folks attempting to create Citadel of Sorcery are truly working on an innovative title that would revolutionize the MMORPG space, this really is iteration number 18 of the standard theme park MMO with some DAOC style RVR grafted on to the end game. See WAR.
I doubt with that concept CoS could even break 1million subs. Sure it will be great for people who want a sandbox MMO, but there aren't that many of them. It would lack a centralized end game which is what most people are looking for. Not minecraft as an MMO.
Ahaha I had to chime on on this one. So you want an MMO with an "End Game" you know having an "End Game" to a genre that's supposed to be a 2nd life, is kinda backwards right?
Are you talking about raiding? (Raiding != endgame BTW) I believe the last statistic was that something like 6% of mmo gamers do top tier raiding 6%!! That's nothing. Most group and quest together and spend their time leveling up.
I would love to know where you got the idea that most people want end game content when most people don't even do "end game" content.
Seems like very few (including you) have actually watched the developer interviews when the game was originally announced. The game will be far from a typical WoW clone.
A) Moba style combat system, (few skills + ultimates), stamina meter for defensive mechanics (dodge/cc removal/etc..), skills that require positioning and extra actions (i.e AoE spells that allow you to throw fireballs without having the mentioned skills) and combining them with your skills (GW2 style combo fields).
Uniquely flexible talent trees that allow you to widely customize your character, not locked to single role and not all over the place like TSW style.
C) 3 way RvR with a goal of capturing the middle city with additional benefits including dungeons/raids that are only open to the conqueror. Heavy endgame emphasis on RvR.
D) Different classes for every faction, not sure if they are mirrors or actual classes on their own.
E) Room-based dungeon system where you have the beat the whole room to progress through the dungeon. No random pulling, when you enter the room, the whole room comes after you and reacting to that is the key to survival.
F) Engine of it's own although it was originally designed using HERO engine as basis. SWTOR engine couldn't run a 3-way RvR so they won't be using that one.
I watched all of it, several times, and here were my reactions.
A) Ew, fuck MOBAs. No TES combat? Not TES.
Not like TES, don't want.
C) I got bored of DAOC RvR after about a month and I'm still bored of it, otherwise I'd be playing it right now. Plus, it makes no sense for a TES game to be forced into factions.
D) No custom classes, I always make my own class in TES.
E) So innovative, Legend of Zelda did it back in 1986! Sounds REALLY lame.
F) Engine means very little actually, it's all about the team using it. A bad team can make Cryengine look like garbage and a good team can make something amazing with Ogre. It's all about the talent, not the tools. Also, this is probably similar to how the Creation engine was "all-new" when in fact it was just a modified Gamebryo.
Seems like very few (including you) have actually watched the developer interviews when the game was originally announced. The game will be far from a typical WoW clone.
A) Moba style combat system, (few skills + ultimates), stamina meter for defensive mechanics (dodge/cc removal/etc..), skills that require positioning and extra actions (i.e AoE spells that allow you to throw fireballs without having the mentioned skills) and combining them with your skills (GW2 style combo fields).
Uniquely flexible talent trees that allow you to widely customize your character, not locked to single role and not all over the place like TSW style.
C) 3 way RvR with a goal of capturing the middle city with additional benefits including dungeons/raids that are only open to the conqueror. Heavy endgame emphasis on RvR.
D) Different classes for every faction, not sure if they are mirrors or actual classes on their own.
E) Room-based dungeon system where you have the beat the whole room to progress through the dungeon. No random pulling, when you enter the room, the whole room comes after you and reacting to that is the key to survival.
F) Engine of it's own although it was originally designed using HERO engine as basis. SWTOR engine couldn't run a 3-way RvR so they won't be using that one.
I watched all of it, several times, and here were my reactions.
A) Ew, fuck MOBAs. No TES combat? Not TES.
Not like TES, don't want.
C) I got bored of DAOC RvR after about a month and I'm still bored of it, otherwise I'd be playing it right now. Plus, it makes no sense for a TES game to be forced into factions.
D) No custom classes, I always make my own class in TES.
E) So innovative, Legend of Zelda did it back in 1986! Sounds REALLY lame.
F) Engine means very little actually, it's all about the team using it. A bad team can make Cryengine look like garbage and a good team can make something amazing with Ogre. It's all about the talent, not the tools. Also, this is probably similar to how the Creation engine was "all-new" when in fact it was just a modified Gamebryo.
You want TES in a multiplayer game? Go play two worlds and two worlds 2.
Theres a reason people aren't doing that style of combat in a multiplayer game. It doesn't work very well.
You want TES in a multiplayer game? Go play two worlds and two worlds 2.
Theres a reason people aren't doing that style of combat in a multiplayer game. It doesn't work very well.
I guess you've never played two worlds or two worlds 2. They are not like TES. They don't even have first person.
They are also not MMORPGs with thousands of concurrent players in the same world as you.
Also TW and TW2 does not take place in Tamriel so I could care less.
As for that combat style "working well," it only works well if the team creating it care enough to make it work well. There are a ton of ways to improve upon and polish the already-working real-time combat seen in MMORPGs like Darkfall and Mortal Online. If those tiny, unfunded teams, fueled only by passion can do it, then how is it "impossible" for a 250 person team with a 300 million dollar budget?
If you want to know what I want? Here it is:
An open-world MMORPG that takes place in the entire continent of Tamriel, and plays as close to Skyrim as possible, with a few, barely-noticeable changes to cater to thousands of players being the the same world at once.
What I'm getting:
An instanced, phased and closed-off thempark MMORPG that takes place in one third of Tamriel depending on your race-locked faction, with an archaic and out-dated combat and interaction system, no housing options, no viable first-person combat, and very little resembling what makes TES special in lieu of tired, 10-year-old design paradigms like RvR and tab-targetting.
Seems like very few (including you) have actually watched the developer interviews when the game was originally announced. The game will be far from a typical WoW clone.
A) Moba style combat system, (few skills + ultimates), stamina meter for defensive mechanics (dodge/cc removal/etc..), skills that require positioning and extra actions (i.e AoE spells that allow you to throw fireballs without having the mentioned skills) and combining them with your skills (GW2 style combo fields).
Uniquely flexible talent trees that allow you to widely customize your character, not locked to single role and not all over the place like TSW style.
C) 3 way RvR with a goal of capturing the middle city with additional benefits including dungeons/raids that are only open to the conqueror. Heavy endgame emphasis on RvR.
D) Different classes for every faction, not sure if they are mirrors or actual classes on their own.
E) Room-based dungeon system where you have the beat the whole room to progress through the dungeon. No random pulling, when you enter the room, the whole room comes after you and reacting to that is the key to survival.
F) Engine of it's own although it was originally designed using HERO engine as basis. SWTOR engine couldn't run a 3-way RvR so they won't be using that one.
I watched all of it, several times, and here were my reactions.
A) Ew, fuck MOBAs. No TES combat? Not TES.
Not like TES, don't want.
C) I got bored of DAOC RvR after about a month and I'm still bored of it, otherwise I'd be playing it right now. Plus, it makes no sense for a TES game to be forced into factions.
D) No custom classes, I always make my own class in TES.
E) So innovative, Legend of Zelda did it back in 1986! Sounds REALLY lame.
F) Engine means very little actually, it's all about the team using it. A bad team can make Cryengine look like garbage and a good team can make something amazing with Ogre. It's all about the talent, not the tools. Also, this is probably similar to how the Creation engine was "all-new" when in fact it was just a modified Gamebryo.
You want TES in a multiplayer game? Go play two worlds and two worlds 2.
Theres a reason people aren't doing that style of combat in a multiplayer game. It doesn't work very well.
That style of combat is being utilized in Korea right now and it's painfully successful. Tera tried a hybrid version that didn't do so well. The current combat system for ESO is just a copout.
Straight up it's not a TES game. It's not TES gameplay so why would you make it? Just call it Warrior Fighters and it makes more sense than calling in TES.
You want TES in a multiplayer game? Go play two worlds and two worlds 2.
Theres a reason people aren't doing that style of combat in a multiplayer game. It doesn't work very well.
I guess you've never played two worlds or two worlds 2. They are not like TES. They don't even have first person.
They are also not MMORPGs with thousands of concurrent players in the same world as you.
Also TW and TW2 does not take place in Tamriel so I could care less.
As for that combat style "working well," it only works well if the team creating it care enough to make it work well. There are a ton of ways to improve upon and polish the already-working real-time combat seen in MMORPGs like Darkfall and Mortal Online. If those tiny, unfunded teams, fueled only by passion can do it, then how is it "impossible" for a 250 person team with a 300 million dollar budget?
If you want to know what I want? Here it is:
An open-world MMORPG that takes place in the entire continent of Tamriel, and plays as close to Skyrim as possible, with a few, barely-noticeable changes to cater to thousands of players being the the same world at once.
What I'm getting:
An instanced, phased and closed-off thempark MMORPG that takes place in one third of Tamriel depending on your race-locked faction, with an archaic and out-dated combat and interaction system, no housing options, no viable first-person combat, and very little resembling what makes TES special in lieu of tired, 10-year-old design paradigms like RvR and tab-targetting.
The only thing they have said will be instanced is dungeons. I fail to see how dungeons are a negative. In fact the statement they are trying to design them like "WoW's BRD" took me from could care less about this game to my #1 most anticipated game.
Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all single player theme park games. Why would you expect the MMO to be any different?
Race-locked factions fit in the already pre-established lore from the 2nd era.
They are looking at adding first person combat, if you really want to just zoom in. You can play virtually any MMO currently out in first person. If you want to use left/right click as your attacks, rebind them. Limiting people to 2 attacks at a time would make for an extremely boring MMO. Using FPS style aiming in an MMO is HUGELY affected by latency, and would make the game unplayable by a large amount of people.
Housing isn't a useful feature. It takes a large amount of development time for virtually no gain. Even the people who are fully engrosed in the housing aspect spend very little time in the actual housing part of the game. HOUSING IS NOT A USEFUL OR NEEDED FEATURE IN MMOS. If you want to build a house, I suggest you go play the sims.
The combat system they have touted sounds absolutly amazing and I can't wait to use it. Being able to charge spells longer for a better version of the spell. Everyone having access to Sprint, Block, Power attacks, and Intrupting via stamina making it a third resource that you have to manage. It sounds like an extremely in depth system with a huge skill cap that I can't wait to use.
RvRvR was the epitome of PvP in MMOs and hasn't really be recreated since DAoC. GW2 tried it, but there is little to no insentive to doing WvWvW because things just reset. They have already basically admited to a ranking system wiht the top person being the "emporer of tamriel". I again can't wait. It sounds to me like they know their audience and are developing the game for them.
If you wan't skyrim with multiplayer I suggest you look at the Skyrim Online mod.
However, this one also comes with three factions where the races and classes are different from one another - you can't find an mmorpg like that other than Dark Age of Camelot.
That alone, put this game ahead of the crowd of cut and paste clones where 5 races are the limited and everyone looks the same.
well whatever it will be , is it possible for once ...just for once (doesnt have to be with TESO ) to keep the whining bitching and moaning at bay ..because im sick and tired of it , seriously.
You want TES in a multiplayer game? Go play two worlds and two worlds 2.
Theres a reason people aren't doing that style of combat in a multiplayer game. It doesn't work very well.
I guess you've never played two worlds or two worlds 2. They are not like TES. They don't even have first person.
They are also not MMORPGs with thousands of concurrent players in the same world as you.
Also TW and TW2 does not take place in Tamriel so I could care less.
As for that combat style "working well," it only works well if the team creating it care enough to make it work well. There are a ton of ways to improve upon and polish the already-working real-time combat seen in MMORPGs like Darkfall and Mortal Online. If those tiny, unfunded teams, fueled only by passion can do it, then how is it "impossible" for a 250 person team with a 300 million dollar budget?
If you want to know what I want? Here it is:
An open-world MMORPG that takes place in the entire continent of Tamriel, and plays as close to Skyrim as possible, with a few, barely-noticeable changes to cater to thousands of players being the the same world at once.
What I'm getting:
An instanced, phased and closed-off thempark MMORPG that takes place in one third of Tamriel depending on your race-locked faction, with an archaic and out-dated combat and interaction system, no housing options, no viable first-person combat, and very little resembling what makes TES special in lieu of tired, 10-year-old design paradigms like RvR and tab-targetting.
The only thing they have said will be instanced is dungeons. I fail to see how dungeons are a negative. In fact the statement they are trying to design them like "WoW's BRD" took me from could care less about this game to my #1 most anticipated game.
Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all single player theme park games. Why would you expect the MMO to be any different?
Race-locked factions fit in the already pre-established lore from the 2nd era.
They are looking at adding first person combat, if you really want to just zoom in. You can play virtually any MMO currently out in first person. If you want to use left/right click as your attacks, rebind them. Limiting people to 2 attacks at a time would make for an extremely boring MMO. Using FPS style aiming in an MMO is HUGELY affected by latency, and would make the game unplayable by a large amount of people.
Housing isn't a useful feature. It takes a large amount of development time for virtually no gain. Even the people who are fully engrosed in the housing aspect spend very little time in the actual housing part of the game. HOUSING IS NOT A USEFUL OR NEEDED FEATURE IN MMOS. If you want to build a house, I suggest you go play the sims.
The combat system they have touted sounds absolutly amazing and I can't wait to use it. Being able to charge spells longer for a better version of the spell. Everyone having access to Sprint, Block, Power attacks, and Intrupting via stamina making it a third resource that you have to manage. It sounds like an extremely in depth system with a huge skill cap that I can't wait to use.
RvRvR was the epitome of PvP in MMOs and hasn't really be recreated since DAoC. GW2 tried it, but there is little to no insentive to doing WvWvW because things just reset. They have already basically admited to a ranking system wiht the top person being the "emporer of tamriel". I again can't wait. It sounds to me like they know their audience and are developing the game for them.
If you wan't skyrim with multiplayer I suggest you look at the Skyrim Online mod.
If Skyrim Online supported THOUSANDS OF PLAYERS in ALL OF TAMRIEL perhaps I would.
Seriously, you either work for Bethesda or you are an advertiser's wet dream since you seem to buy into any and all marketing hyperbole that is thrown your way.
Black-Rock? That is your epitome of a dungeon? It was fun, for WoW, but that's not saying much. Then again WoW quite literally puts me to sleep when I play it. I will play for ten minutes, start to get really tired, close the game to lie down and suddenly I'm awake again.
Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are all sandbox games. Do you honestly believe that just because there are some stories you can get involed in that it isn't a sandbox? Especially when there is no need to follow the story in order to progress in the game? I know people who have played characters that have never done a single main quest or faction quest, just roam the land and explore, go where they want, when they want for any reason they want. THAT, as was described earlier, IS sandbox. The game only has a rigid form if you go out of your way to find one. Hell, the main story is especially avoidable in Skyrim, and there is SO much else to do.
They are not looking at adding first-person combat (you are referring to the twitter post), they are looking at improving the first-person view. They already said first-person combat was "not a priority" which is pretty ludicrous for claiming to be a TES game.
Aiming is not affected by latency if you build the game to support it. Aside from Darkfall and Mortal disproving this: Hello? Planetside 2? If you're in Cali playing on a European server you might have some minute latency, but if your server is close then you are golden, no issues, unless you're on a 56k moden still, in which case, it's time to upgrade.
In Darkfall, you have to equip anything before using it. I can literally access over 100 skills without moving my hands off of WASD, in-combat. In Mortal, you have a hotbar, so you can switch things out. There's nothing wrong with a hotbar, (there is a hotbar in TES games since Oblivion, also known as quick-slots or favorites) but auto-abilities are hand-holding are boring, waiting for that cooldown before doing anything else...yawn.
In aimed real-time combat, you can use your environment, which makes things quite a bit more intense and tactical.
Housing ISN'T useful, you're right, unless you want a persistent userbase with a lot more user retension. Bad housing does nothing, well-implemented housing can save your game. As for taking up valuable resources, they have 250 people with 300 million dollars. If they can't find the time for housing they are horribly mismanaged and/or just plain lazy.
All that is absolutely amazing to you? Sounds like Kingdoms of Amalur to me (horrifying game). Also, Neverwinter is doing all that as well. I played it at E3, was pretty fun. But it was nowhere close to what it would be like with TES combat.
Maybe you prefer to have your hand held, but not me, I want combat to be intense, edge-of-my-seat action, whether PvP or PvE. Darkfall is really the only MMOGs to have provided that (because it was inspired by TES). Even then, it's far from perfect, because again, small team, no funding. A lot of talent and passion, but very little resources. I feel like ZOS is the exact opposite of this.
RvR is NOT the pinnacle of PvP. It's just rarely seen, much like FFA PVP. So if so many people say FFA PVP isn't good because so few people use it, what's that to say about RvR? I got bored with RvR in DAOC very quickly, since it's so repetitive and undynamic. FFA PVP on the other hand is completely unpredictable, thus dynamic and consistently exciting. Pair that with siegeable cities and a robust crime+punishment system and you have a winning combination that no one has quite managed to figure out yet.
I honestly thought that with all the manpower and money, ZOS would be able to pull it off, but alas, I forgot you also need talent and passion as well, and they seem to lack that completely.
Originally posted by DaezAster We really need to get out of this religious savior that will never come mind set and just consider games good or bad games.
Mortal online has sub numbers in the high hundreds to low thousands >5000.
Darkfall has 20000 subs.
Damn those are huge numbers. I guess their combat system is Amazing because everyone is playing those games.
They are right going with the traditional tab targeting system. The first person system has been shown that it doesn't work.
The fact that you think their combat system has anything to do with their subs shows just how out of touch you are.
Darkfall lost a big chunk of players early on, and continued to bleed subs over the past couple of years, because of problems with the game itself like bugs, a bad UI, people not liking FFA PvP & full loot, too much grinding, and exploiters. Its combat system was one of the main things people did like about it, certainly not why they have low subs. It was a highly anticipated game partly because of the combat, and if you had the sense to look at the current hype meter DF:UW is number 1. The combat system isnt changing, other aspects of the game are. How exactly does a game with, as you claim, such a horrible combat system get to be the #1 anticipated game on this site?
Mortal online well.. have you ever read a single thinga bout Mortal? That game is so broken in so many ways I dont even know where to begin. But again, not the combat system itself that is the problem. Granted the combat isnt as good / smooth as Darkfall or TES, but its the least of that games problems right now.
If you think first person combat doesnt work, how do you explain the millions upon millions of sales for FPS games like COD, Halo, Rainbow Six, etc every year for many years?
Mortal online has sub numbers in the high hundreds to low thousands >5000.
Darkfall has 20000 subs.
Damn those are huge numbers. I guess their combat system is Amazing because everyone is playing those games.
They are right going with the traditional tab targeting system. The first person system has been shown that it doesn't work.
That's all you've got? The low numbers = bad game argument?
If that was the case, then DAOC must be a really bad game too. So must Ultima, and Everquest. SWG must have been a TERRIBLE game because that is dead!
I guarantee you, for every person who wishes AAA games had RvR there is another person who wishes the same thing about FFA PvP.
Also, Darkfall has 75,000 currently, and that's roughly two months until the servers are wiped for good and the sequel is launched. Not even SWG had that 2 months before their shutdown
Both Darkfall and Mortal have marketing budgets of roughly 0$ so they are unable to create any form of exposure. The only resource they have is word-of-mouth. Problem is, their games don't have the cutting edge graphics of others, because they have minimal budgets.
We'll see what happens with Darkfall: Unholy Wars, which has a bit more of a marketing boost, from this very website, but still, neither of those games are attached to massive IPs either.
In the land of MMOG over-saturation, IP can be the difference between success and failure. Original IPs have a much worse track record than pre-existing IPs.
This is also the only reason why ESO has a chance for success, since it has nothing else interesting going for it.
First of all a ion house new game engine is not a definitive answer.Case in point Square Enix and it's White Engine designed to bring us FFXIV.Their own staff said they felt it was a mistake.
3 faction pvp is laughable to me,i would not accept anythign less than at least 5.
Stamina/pvp,not interested in cheap RPP type pvp.
Fully voiced,ok i like this idea ,goes great in all games.Dynamic as in GW2?Please that is NOT dynamic,that is taking a normal game and just making content invisible ,so you can run the game cheaper and just trigger it in as needed.I don't want anytthing like GW2 EVER.
Ultimate skills,well without playing it i really have nothign to say.I do know FFXI has Renkai system and yo uattain weapon skills on how yo udo in combat.Add in a 2 hour ability and it makes for sone cool times.I am sure any spinoff of this type of design will be decent enough.
I like large dungoens but NOT instances,i am playing a MMO ,not a single player or coop game.
In saying NOT a WOW clone,you mean no more XP for doing simple quests?FFXI is NOT a Wow clone,it has tons of quests,NONE offer xp.
So far aside from voice over and MAYBE Ultimate skills,not a whole lot to go on here.Example Ultimate skills may be VERY limited and even repetitive.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Finally someone is starting from scratch, making their own MMO game engine. Being able to fully controll everything about their own engine will be refreshing over the limitations of recent MMOs.
Three faction PvP is back! DAoC is the undesputed open world PvP game and it hasn't been sucessfully copied yet. With the lead developer of DAoC being the lead developer here I think we have a chance!
The stamina system is quite possibly the most interesting PvP mechanic i've seen in a LONG time. I'm really looking forward to it it adds a large amount of depth.
Fully voiced, dynamic content. SWTOR started the fully voiced, and add in GW2 dynamic system and you have a great questing system.
Ultimate Skills are another wonderful ideas. 0 mana, 0 CD skills that become castable from how you do in combat? I love it!
Back to the trinity. After GW2 we learned that the trinity exsists for a reason. They are trying to keep a similar action feel while going back to the method that works.
"BRD style Instances" Gone are the days of linear instances. Go where you want mazes with multiple paths!
Not a wow-clone. They aren't doing the mistake of so many MMOs recently of copying WoW. Granted WoW was a great game, but if people wanted to play wow they would play wow.
From the information released so far this sounds like it has the possibility to be one amazing game. I'm really looking forward to following the development and trying the betas.
All these sound very promising and intresting concepts concernigna different approach f the combat system and mechanisms.Ppl are keeping an eye i think.Just dont get too excited my friends its too early. BTW PPL is anyone aware if Bethesda assigned any group members to supervise its construction? And i mean programmers from older tes series morrorwind oblivion etc,,,?
Comments
I'm not sure COS could break 500K subs, but the good news is, it doesn't have to. From where I sit, if a MMO appeals to the mass audience I'm pretty sure I'm not going to like it very much.
You may not recall, but DAOC was a niche product for its time, titles such as EQ1 and AC had larger player bases.
And if you really think about it, COS's concept for "end game" is actually closer to the TES concept (far more open ended) than TESO seems to be aiming for.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ahaha I had to chime on on this one. So you want an MMO with an "End Game" you know having an "End Game" to a genre that's supposed to be a 2nd life, is kinda backwards right?
Are you talking about raiding? (Raiding != endgame BTW) I believe the last statistic was that something like 6% of mmo gamers do top tier raiding 6%!! That's nothing. Most group and quest together and spend their time leveling up.
I would love to know where you got the idea that most people want end game content when most people don't even do "end game" content.
I watched all of it, several times, and here were my reactions.
A) Ew, fuck MOBAs. No TES combat? Not TES.
C) I got bored of DAOC RvR after about a month and I'm still bored of it, otherwise I'd be playing it right now. Plus, it makes no sense for a TES game to be forced into factions.
D) No custom classes, I always make my own class in TES.
E) So innovative, Legend of Zelda did it back in 1986! Sounds REALLY lame.
F) Engine means very little actually, it's all about the team using it. A bad team can make Cryengine look like garbage and a good team can make something amazing with Ogre. It's all about the talent, not the tools. Also, this is probably similar to how the Creation engine was "all-new" when in fact it was just a modified Gamebryo.
"Savior of MMOs"
Hehe.. If only I hadn't heard that before. Guild Wars 2 is doing a damn good job though.
You want TES in a multiplayer game? Go play two worlds and two worlds 2.
Theres a reason people aren't doing that style of combat in a multiplayer game. It doesn't work very well.
I guess you've never played two worlds or two worlds 2. They are not like TES. They don't even have first person.
They are also not MMORPGs with thousands of concurrent players in the same world as you.
Also TW and TW2 does not take place in Tamriel so I could care less.
As for that combat style "working well," it only works well if the team creating it care enough to make it work well. There are a ton of ways to improve upon and polish the already-working real-time combat seen in MMORPGs like Darkfall and Mortal Online. If those tiny, unfunded teams, fueled only by passion can do it, then how is it "impossible" for a 250 person team with a 300 million dollar budget?
If you want to know what I want? Here it is:
An open-world MMORPG that takes place in the entire continent of Tamriel, and plays as close to Skyrim as possible, with a few, barely-noticeable changes to cater to thousands of players being the the same world at once.
What I'm getting:
An instanced, phased and closed-off thempark MMORPG that takes place in one third of Tamriel depending on your race-locked faction, with an archaic and out-dated combat and interaction system, no housing options, no viable first-person combat, and very little resembling what makes TES special in lieu of tired, 10-year-old design paradigms like RvR and tab-targetting.
That style of combat is being utilized in Korea right now and it's painfully successful. Tera tried a hybrid version that didn't do so well. The current combat system for ESO is just a copout.
Straight up it's not a TES game. It's not TES gameplay so why would you make it? Just call it Warrior Fighters and it makes more sense than calling in TES.
The only thing they have said will be instanced is dungeons. I fail to see how dungeons are a negative. In fact the statement they are trying to design them like "WoW's BRD" took me from could care less about this game to my #1 most anticipated game.
Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all single player theme park games. Why would you expect the MMO to be any different?
Race-locked factions fit in the already pre-established lore from the 2nd era.
They are looking at adding first person combat, if you really want to just zoom in. You can play virtually any MMO currently out in first person. If you want to use left/right click as your attacks, rebind them. Limiting people to 2 attacks at a time would make for an extremely boring MMO. Using FPS style aiming in an MMO is HUGELY affected by latency, and would make the game unplayable by a large amount of people.
Housing isn't a useful feature. It takes a large amount of development time for virtually no gain. Even the people who are fully engrosed in the housing aspect spend very little time in the actual housing part of the game. HOUSING IS NOT A USEFUL OR NEEDED FEATURE IN MMOS. If you want to build a house, I suggest you go play the sims.
The combat system they have touted sounds absolutly amazing and I can't wait to use it. Being able to charge spells longer for a better version of the spell. Everyone having access to Sprint, Block, Power attacks, and Intrupting via stamina making it a third resource that you have to manage. It sounds like an extremely in depth system with a huge skill cap that I can't wait to use.
RvRvR was the epitome of PvP in MMOs and hasn't really be recreated since DAoC. GW2 tried it, but there is little to no insentive to doing WvWvW because things just reset. They have already basically admited to a ranking system wiht the top person being the "emporer of tamriel". I again can't wait. It sounds to me like they know their audience and are developing the game for them.
If you wan't skyrim with multiplayer I suggest you look at the Skyrim Online mod.
I agree. But hype comes with every new product.
However, this one also comes with three factions where the races and classes are different from one another - you can't find an mmorpg like that other than Dark Age of Camelot.
That alone, put this game ahead of the crowd of cut and paste clones where 5 races are the limited and everyone looks the same.
This is a gem in the making.
If Skyrim Online supported THOUSANDS OF PLAYERS in ALL OF TAMRIEL perhaps I would.
Seriously, you either work for Bethesda or you are an advertiser's wet dream since you seem to buy into any and all marketing hyperbole that is thrown your way.
Black-Rock? That is your epitome of a dungeon? It was fun, for WoW, but that's not saying much. Then again WoW quite literally puts me to sleep when I play it. I will play for ten minutes, start to get really tired, close the game to lie down and suddenly I'm awake again.
Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are all sandbox games. Do you honestly believe that just because there are some stories you can get involed in that it isn't a sandbox? Especially when there is no need to follow the story in order to progress in the game? I know people who have played characters that have never done a single main quest or faction quest, just roam the land and explore, go where they want, when they want for any reason they want. THAT, as was described earlier, IS sandbox. The game only has a rigid form if you go out of your way to find one. Hell, the main story is especially avoidable in Skyrim, and there is SO much else to do.
They are not looking at adding first-person combat (you are referring to the twitter post), they are looking at improving the first-person view. They already said first-person combat was "not a priority" which is pretty ludicrous for claiming to be a TES game.
Aiming is not affected by latency if you build the game to support it. Aside from Darkfall and Mortal disproving this: Hello? Planetside 2? If you're in Cali playing on a European server you might have some minute latency, but if your server is close then you are golden, no issues, unless you're on a 56k moden still, in which case, it's time to upgrade.
In Darkfall, you have to equip anything before using it. I can literally access over 100 skills without moving my hands off of WASD, in-combat. In Mortal, you have a hotbar, so you can switch things out. There's nothing wrong with a hotbar, (there is a hotbar in TES games since Oblivion, also known as quick-slots or favorites) but auto-abilities are hand-holding are boring, waiting for that cooldown before doing anything else...yawn.
In aimed real-time combat, you can use your environment, which makes things quite a bit more intense and tactical.
Housing ISN'T useful, you're right, unless you want a persistent userbase with a lot more user retension. Bad housing does nothing, well-implemented housing can save your game. As for taking up valuable resources, they have 250 people with 300 million dollars. If they can't find the time for housing they are horribly mismanaged and/or just plain lazy.
All that is absolutely amazing to you? Sounds like Kingdoms of Amalur to me (horrifying game). Also, Neverwinter is doing all that as well. I played it at E3, was pretty fun. But it was nowhere close to what it would be like with TES combat.
Maybe you prefer to have your hand held, but not me, I want combat to be intense, edge-of-my-seat action, whether PvP or PvE. Darkfall is really the only MMOGs to have provided that (because it was inspired by TES). Even then, it's far from perfect, because again, small team, no funding. A lot of talent and passion, but very little resources. I feel like ZOS is the exact opposite of this.
RvR is NOT the pinnacle of PvP. It's just rarely seen, much like FFA PVP. So if so many people say FFA PVP isn't good because so few people use it, what's that to say about RvR? I got bored with RvR in DAOC very quickly, since it's so repetitive and undynamic. FFA PVP on the other hand is completely unpredictable, thus dynamic and consistently exciting. Pair that with siegeable cities and a robust crime+punishment system and you have a winning combination that no one has quite managed to figure out yet.
I honestly thought that with all the manpower and money, ZOS would be able to pull it off, but alas, I forgot you also need talent and passion as well, and they seem to lack that completely.
Agreed.
In its current form, ESO = bad.
Mortal online has sub numbers in the high hundreds to low thousands >5000.
Darkfall has 20000 subs.
Damn those are huge numbers. I guess their combat system is Amazing because everyone is playing those games.
They are right going with the traditional tab targeting system. The first person system has been shown that it doesn't work.
The fact that you think their combat system has anything to do with their subs shows just how out of touch you are.
Darkfall lost a big chunk of players early on, and continued to bleed subs over the past couple of years, because of problems with the game itself like bugs, a bad UI, people not liking FFA PvP & full loot, too much grinding, and exploiters. Its combat system was one of the main things people did like about it, certainly not why they have low subs. It was a highly anticipated game partly because of the combat, and if you had the sense to look at the current hype meter DF:UW is number 1. The combat system isnt changing, other aspects of the game are. How exactly does a game with, as you claim, such a horrible combat system get to be the #1 anticipated game on this site?
Mortal online well.. have you ever read a single thinga bout Mortal? That game is so broken in so many ways I dont even know where to begin. But again, not the combat system itself that is the problem. Granted the combat isnt as good / smooth as Darkfall or TES, but its the least of that games problems right now.
If you think first person combat doesnt work, how do you explain the millions upon millions of sales for FPS games like COD, Halo, Rainbow Six, etc every year for many years?
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
www.albioncentralbank.enjin.com
That's all you've got? The low numbers = bad game argument?
If that was the case, then DAOC must be a really bad game too. So must Ultima, and Everquest. SWG must have been a TERRIBLE game because that is dead!
I guarantee you, for every person who wishes AAA games had RvR there is another person who wishes the same thing about FFA PvP.
Also, Darkfall has 75,000 currently, and that's roughly two months until the servers are wiped for good and the sequel is launched. Not even SWG had that 2 months before their shutdown
Both Darkfall and Mortal have marketing budgets of roughly 0$ so they are unable to create any form of exposure. The only resource they have is word-of-mouth. Problem is, their games don't have the cutting edge graphics of others, because they have minimal budgets.
We'll see what happens with Darkfall: Unholy Wars, which has a bit more of a marketing boost, from this very website, but still, neither of those games are attached to massive IPs either.
In the land of MMOG over-saturation, IP can be the difference between success and failure. Original IPs have a much worse track record than pre-existing IPs.
This is also the only reason why ESO has a chance for success, since it has nothing else interesting going for it.
First of all a ion house new game engine is not a definitive answer.Case in point Square Enix and it's White Engine designed to bring us FFXIV.Their own staff said they felt it was a mistake.
3 faction pvp is laughable to me,i would not accept anythign less than at least 5.
Stamina/pvp,not interested in cheap RPP type pvp.
Fully voiced,ok i like this idea ,goes great in all games.Dynamic as in GW2?Please that is NOT dynamic,that is taking a normal game and just making content invisible ,so you can run the game cheaper and just trigger it in as needed.I don't want anytthing like GW2 EVER.
Ultimate skills,well without playing it i really have nothign to say.I do know FFXI has Renkai system and yo uattain weapon skills on how yo udo in combat.Add in a 2 hour ability and it makes for sone cool times.I am sure any spinoff of this type of design will be decent enough.
I like large dungoens but NOT instances,i am playing a MMO ,not a single player or coop game.
In saying NOT a WOW clone,you mean no more XP for doing simple quests?FFXI is NOT a Wow clone,it has tons of quests,NONE offer xp.
So far aside from voice over and MAYBE Ultimate skills,not a whole lot to go on here.Example Ultimate skills may be VERY limited and even repetitive.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It will be for atleast 3 weeks
I'll be there at head start....
All these sound very promising and intresting concepts concernigna different approach f the combat system and mechanisms.Ppl are keeping an eye i think.Just dont get too excited my friends its too early. BTW PPL is anyone aware if Bethesda assigned any group members to supervise its construction? And i mean programmers from older tes series morrorwind oblivion etc,,,?
Three factions is back... ? Dude, it's always been around.
Guild Wars 2, Planetside, practically all of the new games. It hasn't gone anywhere.
On another note, this Elder Scrolls game, looks like a pile of dog shit. Honestly.
Its NOTHING like their previous games. Which doesn't make any sense, they have a formula that works, and they are going to completely change it.
They are killing their game dynasty.
What ^^^he said
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
www.albioncentralbank.enjin.com
What?! Source or bullshit.
Unless something changed DFO have 2 servers now. One EU and One US. They don't have that much high pop as well. Especially EU one.
Except GW2 doesn't have 3 factions.. It has one.