"Pandaland (WoW) 2012. Not joking. Wpvp lives in pandaland ."
So my colleague was wrong and there is still open non-instanced pvp zones?
There always were.
Might be forgetting some, but there was Isle of Quel'Danas in TBC (plus some failed zone objective pvp attempts like Haala), Wintergrasp in WOTLK, Tol Barad in CATACLYSM and now it's just all out war, this patch is the preparation and coming up is who knows what. Corpses everywhere as it is. One things for sure, people are spending time outside of cities in MoP more than ever. EVER.
The thing to understand about world PVP in WoW is that they're HIGH LEVEL areas with daily quests in them, entered by players who are FULLY AWARE of the dangers, yet want to try and do those dailies anyway. When the killing starts there are no lowbies or unwilling participants involved.
I loved Cataclysm for Tol Barad alone (everything else was mediocre). Just me and a friend could start massive wars with guilds guarding players doing dailies, having patrols set up, warnings etc, as if in a BG.
Anyone claiming WoW hasn't got interesting world PVP just hasn't ever *really* played WoW, not **really**. Repeating stuff you've heard years ago about a game doesn't neccessarily reflect the truth!
Just because WoW has open PvP zones (almost every MMO does) does not change the fact that WoW is a PvE game, with PvP tacked on as an afterthought.
The game is not built around PvP, PvP is not supported, PvP does not impact the game world. It's nonconsequential and just has very few mechanics supporting it beyond "here you can kill people."
All the other games listed have been built around PvP.
And to the other poster. So long as DAoC has Darkness Falls, its RvR will be better than GW2.
Old Frontiers Dark Age of Camelot was the best RvR I've ever played. Massive battles with hundreds of people clashing and bashing it out all the time. There was a reason to be out in the frontiers, to protect your relics. It was about realm pride as well.
I don't really think GW2 does pvp the best. There are definately better pvp games to play than GW2.
Old Frontiers Dark Age of Camelot was the best RvR I've ever played. Massive battles with hundreds of people clashing and bashing it out all the time. There was a reason to be out in the frontiers, to protect your relics. It was about realm pride as well.
I don't really think GW2 does pvp the best. There are definately better pvp games to play than GW2.
Like...?
Playing: TESO Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera Waiting on:EQ Next
Old Frontiers Dark Age of Camelot was the best RvR I've ever played. Massive battles with hundreds of people clashing and bashing it out all the time. There was a reason to be out in the frontiers, to protect your relics. It was about realm pride as well.
I don't really think GW2 does pvp the best. There are definately better pvp games to play than GW2.
Just because WoW has open PvP zones (almost every MMO does) does not change the fact that WoW is a PvE game, with PvP tacked on as an afterthought.
The game is not built around PvP, PvP is not supported, PvP does not impact the game world. It's nonconsequential and just has very few mechanics supporting it beyond "here you can kill people."
All the other games listed have been built around PvP.
And to the other poster. So long as DAoC has Darkness Falls, its RvR will be better than GW2.
And as I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You simply have to accept not everyone agrees with you
Old Frontiers Dark Age of Camelot was the best RvR I've ever played. Massive battles with hundreds of people clashing and bashing it out all the time. There was a reason to be out in the frontiers, to protect your relics. It was about realm pride as well.
I don't really think GW2 does pvp the best. There are definately better pvp games to play than GW2.
Like...?
DAoC
Darkfall
Eve
Planetside 2
Trying Planetside 2 tonight, truly hope its actually an MMO and not Halo with a few stats.
Playing: TESO Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera Waiting on:EQ Next
Old Frontiers Dark Age of Camelot was the best RvR I've ever played. Massive battles with hundreds of people clashing and bashing it out all the time. There was a reason to be out in the frontiers, to protect your relics. It was about realm pride as well.
I don't really think GW2 does pvp the best. There are definately better pvp games to play than GW2.
Like...?
DAoC
Darkfall
Eve
Planetside 2
Trying Planetside 2 tonight, truly hope its actually an MMO and not Halo with a few stats.
Its more of an MMO than SWTOR, TSW, TERA, AoC, and even GW2 in some ways.
Hundreds of people fighting in a massive persistent world? Thats an MMO.
Old Frontiers Dark Age of Camelot was the best RvR I've ever played. Massive battles with hundreds of people clashing and bashing it out all the time. There was a reason to be out in the frontiers, to protect your relics. It was about realm pride as well.
I don't really think GW2 does pvp the best. There are definately better pvp games to play than GW2.
Like...?
DAoC
Darkfall
Eve
Planetside 2
Trying Planetside 2 tonight, truly hope its actually an MMO and not Halo with a few stats.
Its more of an MMO than SWTOR, TSW, TERA, AoC, and even GW2 in some ways.
Hundreds of people fighting in a massive persistent world? Thats an MMO.
That's exactly my problem with TSW, I run around all night and RARELY run into another player, SERIOUSLY sick of it and im in Egypt, I only see other people frequently enough to feel like an MMO in Agartha. I LOVE the atmosphere and content of TSW but it feels like a single player at this point while im in queue for Stonehenge for 2 hours. Might as well go back to WoW at this point. But that's why I asked, I want to try other things before I just give up and go back to WoW.
Playing: TESO Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera Waiting on:EQ Next
Yeah of the choices only one I'de vote for is Darkfall.
DAoC has good and moreso unique RvR which made it an early standout for PvP.
Planetside as well was a standout for PvP.
Only other one I'd say off the top of my head would be Asheron's Call. The Darktide server was a wonderful and active murderfest.
EDIT: If you're looking for a new game I guess it's dependent on what you want out of the game.
GW2 PvP has structured PvP which is more isolated matches and then the big three-way PvP which is relatively akin to DAoC.
Don't really know much about TSW's PvP.
EVE's pvp is more open. If you're starting out apparently a cheap ship and finding a pirate crew to just harass others in null-sec can lead to a fast jump into PvP.
Darkfall, well yeah Darkfall is PvP. Go there if you want open world and the ability to shank and loot anyone you meet.
Planetside 2 would be a good choice if you want first person and shooter type gameplay in an open persistent setting.
PvP itself doesn't tend to be my thing. I'm not a competitive person. Though the challenge it provides at times can be fun when you find good opponents.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
GW2 a good PvP game? I would say not, unless you like restricted and heavily controlled PvP with little point or purpose. On the other hand assymetric gank style PvP like in Eve is no fun either so it is a good question which MMO has the best PvP. I would say none atm, Darkfall Unholy Wars might be good but there is no telling as very little actual game play have been released yet.
The most fun I had in PvP MMORPG, in recent times, would have been Warhammer Online, those scenarios were a blast.
Old Frontiers Dark Age of Camelot was the best RvR I've ever played. Massive battles with hundreds of people clashing and bashing it out all the time. There was a reason to be out in the frontiers, to protect your relics. It was about realm pride as well.
I don't really think GW2 does pvp the best. There are definately better pvp games to play than GW2.
Like...?
DAoC
Darkfall
Eve
Planetside 2
Trying Planetside 2 tonight, truly hope its actually an MMO and not Halo with a few stats.
Its more of an MMO than SWTOR, TSW, TERA, AoC, and even GW2 in some ways.
Hundreds of people fighting in a massive persistent world? Thats an MMO.
No, that is more a Massively Multiplayer Online Frag Fest. Very little do to with virtual world and persistency which are hallmarks of MMORPGs.
Awesome point, and this actually makes me re-think my adversion to the full loot. I hadn't taken into account the fact that the gear isnt as rare and you can make new gear, and its more stats based. Is darkfall even worth touching or should I just wait for the new one which is apparently next month?
I guess I just have memories of getting robbed in UO WAY back in the day when EQ was new and fresh. But then again, I probably didnt realize it wasnt that big of deal even then, lol.
Nah you can't pick it up now and it wouldn't be worth getting into given it is going to wipe for the new version next month. Really are just better off waiting for Unholy wars and/or Planetside 2 in all honesty.
I must say though kudos to you OP, you came specifying no loot initially but seem open minded about it after some consideration. Most come on here with a closed off mind with regards to certain mechanics and just bat away/ignore people offering their suggestions. Breath of fresh air, hope you find the game you like whatever it is.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Dark Age of Camelot, the game which GW2 based their RvR on, is still miles ahead of GW2.
DAoC benefits from having years to mature their RvR system.
They also have substantial rewards for winning in RvR, which GW2 doesn't have. They have relics, realm ranks, naval warfare. They don't have a cap on their frontier zone, so any number of people can go in and play.
They also have Darkness Falls, and until GW2 gets a Darkness Falls, it will forever be in DAoC's shadow.
And, Darkfall also beats out GW2, because of its massive sieges and real time combat.
Yeap. But DAoC is very dated and almost dead.. not really worth to try again. So what then?
Well.. as already said in that thread or the quoted post.. you got GW2, which isnt as good for different reasons as DAoC was back then.. but good enough for a little bit. Or you wait for Darkness Falls Unholy Wars, which is "mature" pvp, but the game could still lack on a lot of other departments. Well.. maybe not, but i somehow doubt it, that they really fix all flaws from the original DF with this new incarnation...
What else? Maybe Eve or Perpetuum.. but in EvE you have a long learning curve, and you are far behind everyone else, and you should spend most probably half a year just skilling up a bit(without doing anything.. it is skill per time), and not so sure about Perpetuum... and with EvE you have to go deeply into a coorp and it is more about the meta game as the actual pvp fight.
So if you ask me.. there is no really great pvp game out there at the moment..
But on the other side, if you enjoyed WoW pvp any of the above may be superior for you. Because WoW pvp sucked, and there wasnt a lot of pvp, not even at the vanilla days.. and now even less. And here a little differentiation.
Did you like the Tarrens Mill zerg fight? Then GW2 WvW will be the right choice for you.. there you got Tarrens Mill fights.. a lot, every day, 24/7. If you enjoyed alterac valley GW2 WvW will be the right choice too, and superior in comparsion.
If you liked more the thrill about attacking being attacked during normal sessions... if you like the unexpected surprise of a fight, and the maybe sometimes even more surprising outcome. You should wait for DF.. there you will get that, and a lot more with the territorial controll and clan wars. It can be epic.. but you shouldnt mind grinding. And you shouldnt mind the dependence from a clan/lot of players.. because as lone wolf or as a little pack you will have a very hard time.
I play at the moment GW2 and i will most probably give DF:UW another try.. but both more of lack of good alternatives.
PS/Edit: And well.. there is Planetside 2. But i dont know anything about it.. never played the original game, nor did i read a lot about it. So how is it? Can someone give a good overview? In comparsion to other pvp mmos and/or games like Battlefield? I guess it is most probably worth a try if someone like me, who enjoyed MMO PvP and the BF series?
Old Frontiers Dark Age of Camelot was the best RvR I've ever played. Massive battles with hundreds of people clashing and bashing it out all the time. There was a reason to be out in the frontiers, to protect your relics. It was about realm pride as well.
I don't really think GW2 does pvp the best. There are definately better pvp games to play than GW2.
Like...?
DAoC
Darkfall
Eve
Planetside 2
Trying Planetside 2 tonight, truly hope its actually an MMO and not Halo with a few stats.
Its more of an MMO than SWTOR, TSW, TERA, AoC, and even GW2 in some ways.
Hundreds of people fighting in a massive persistent world? Thats an MMO.
No, that is more a Massively Multiplayer Online Frag Fest. Very little do to with virtual world and persistency which are hallmarks of MMORPGs.
Except for the fact that the world is persistent and completely seamless, and HEAVILY social focused.
When will it release? Will it have an EU release? (EU Server, i really dont want to play with high US ping) Can anyone share a beta key? (PM me) ... i guess i should just read the FAQ o.O
No game to vote for in your poll since those are pve games with pvp hybrid function,you should have some real pvp games n your poll not only games for people that dont dare to play real pvp.
If your a pvper in a pvp guild, pvp Can be very socially focused. It seems a lot of heavy pve players don't get this and think pvp is just a side thing you do solo when you're raid buddies aren't on - e.g. wow battlegrounds.
Community wise planetside was really good,much better than several pve focused games I've played e.g. EQ, wow, Aoc, rift, swtor, tsw.
Only games that battered it community wise were coh, daoc and maybe lotr.
No, that is more a Massively Multiplayer Online Frag Fest. Very little do to with virtual world and persistency which are hallmarks of MMORPGs.
Except for the fact that the world is persistent and completely seamless, and HEAVILY social focused.
Pff. Don't lie DavisFlight.
Planetside is far FAR more social than just about any AAA MMO released in the last 7 years, except for maybe Vanguard, and possibly GW2.
Or do you think you'll get anything done playing solo? (hint, you won't). The game takes a ton of teamwork, coordination, and communication. Unlike GW2 where you can just walk through encounters and other players are so silent they feel like bots.
Comments
DAoC is nothing like it once was, but it is STILL miles ahead of GW2.
Until GW2 adds in relics, naval combat, more siege weapons, realm ranks, and a Darkness Falls, and removes their pop cap, DAoC will be on top.
It all comes down to opinion. I use to like DAoC but not anymore. To many changes and balance issues for me that GW2 doesn't suffer from.
I agree with others, DAoC was better in it's prime but now it simply doesn't stack up to GW2.
But everyones entitled to their own opinion.
There always were.
Might be forgetting some, but there was Isle of Quel'Danas in TBC (plus some failed zone objective pvp attempts like Haala), Wintergrasp in WOTLK, Tol Barad in CATACLYSM and now it's just all out war, this patch is the preparation and coming up is who knows what. Corpses everywhere as it is. One things for sure, people are spending time outside of cities in MoP more than ever. EVER.
The thing to understand about world PVP in WoW is that they're HIGH LEVEL areas with daily quests in them, entered by players who are FULLY AWARE of the dangers, yet want to try and do those dailies anyway. When the killing starts there are no lowbies or unwilling participants involved.
I loved Cataclysm for Tol Barad alone (everything else was mediocre). Just me and a friend could start massive wars with guilds guarding players doing dailies, having patrols set up, warnings etc, as if in a BG.
Anyone claiming WoW hasn't got interesting world PVP just hasn't ever *really* played WoW, not **really**. Repeating stuff you've heard years ago about a game doesn't neccessarily reflect the truth!
Just because WoW has open PvP zones (almost every MMO does) does not change the fact that WoW is a PvE game, with PvP tacked on as an afterthought.
The game is not built around PvP, PvP is not supported, PvP does not impact the game world. It's nonconsequential and just has very few mechanics supporting it beyond "here you can kill people."
All the other games listed have been built around PvP.
And to the other poster. So long as DAoC has Darkness Falls, its RvR will be better than GW2.
Old Frontiers Dark Age of Camelot was the best RvR I've ever played. Massive battles with hundreds of people clashing and bashing it out all the time. There was a reason to be out in the frontiers, to protect your relics. It was about realm pride as well.
I don't really think GW2 does pvp the best. There are definately better pvp games to play than GW2.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Like...?
Playing: TESO
Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera
Waiting on:EQ Next
DAoC
Darkfall
Eve
Planetside 2
And as I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You simply have to accept not everyone agrees with you
Trying Planetside 2 tonight, truly hope its actually an MMO and not Halo with a few stats.
Playing: TESO
Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera
Waiting on:EQ Next
Its more of an MMO than SWTOR, TSW, TERA, AoC, and even GW2 in some ways.
Hundreds of people fighting in a massive persistent world? Thats an MMO.
That's exactly my problem with TSW, I run around all night and RARELY run into another player, SERIOUSLY sick of it and im in Egypt, I only see other people frequently enough to feel like an MMO in Agartha. I LOVE the atmosphere and content of TSW but it feels like a single player at this point while im in queue for Stonehenge for 2 hours. Might as well go back to WoW at this point. But that's why I asked, I want to try other things before I just give up and go back to WoW.
Playing: TESO
Played (Trials mostly): WoW, UO, EQ 1 & 2, DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, EVE, COV, Aion, Rift, Star Trek Online, GW 2, TSW, Final Fantasy ARR, Tera
Waiting on:EQ Next
Yeah of the choices only one I'de vote for is Darkfall.
DAoC has good and moreso unique RvR which made it an early standout for PvP.
Planetside as well was a standout for PvP.
Only other one I'd say off the top of my head would be Asheron's Call. The Darktide server was a wonderful and active murderfest.
EDIT: If you're looking for a new game I guess it's dependent on what you want out of the game.
GW2 PvP has structured PvP which is more isolated matches and then the big three-way PvP which is relatively akin to DAoC.
Don't really know much about TSW's PvP.
EVE's pvp is more open. If you're starting out apparently a cheap ship and finding a pirate crew to just harass others in null-sec can lead to a fast jump into PvP.
Darkfall, well yeah Darkfall is PvP. Go there if you want open world and the ability to shank and loot anyone you meet.
Planetside 2 would be a good choice if you want first person and shooter type gameplay in an open persistent setting.
PvP itself doesn't tend to be my thing. I'm not a competitive person. Though the challenge it provides at times can be fun when you find good opponents.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
GW2 a good PvP game? I would say not, unless you like restricted and heavily controlled PvP with little point or purpose. On the other hand assymetric gank style PvP like in Eve is no fun either so it is a good question which MMO has the best PvP. I would say none atm, Darkfall Unholy Wars might be good but there is no telling as very little actual game play have been released yet.
The most fun I had in PvP MMORPG, in recent times, would have been Warhammer Online, those scenarios were a blast.
My gaming blog
No, that is more a Massively Multiplayer Online Frag Fest. Very little do to with virtual world and persistency which are hallmarks of MMORPGs.
My gaming blog
Lineage 2 was and still is the best open world pvp game out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuqj1XYkXI&list=UUI2lL5C5kEmQiKF0qEf3law&index=2&feature=plcp
Nah you can't pick it up now and it wouldn't be worth getting into given it is going to wipe for the new version next month. Really are just better off waiting for Unholy wars and/or Planetside 2 in all honesty.
I must say though kudos to you OP, you came specifying no loot initially but seem open minded about it after some consideration. Most come on here with a closed off mind with regards to certain mechanics and just bat away/ignore people offering their suggestions. Breath of fresh air, hope you find the game you like whatever it is.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Yeap. But DAoC is very dated and almost dead.. not really worth to try again. So what then?
Well.. as already said in that thread or the quoted post.. you got GW2, which isnt as good for different reasons as DAoC was back then.. but good enough for a little bit. Or you wait for Darkness Falls Unholy Wars, which is "mature" pvp, but the game could still lack on a lot of other departments. Well.. maybe not, but i somehow doubt it, that they really fix all flaws from the original DF with this new incarnation...
What else? Maybe Eve or Perpetuum.. but in EvE you have a long learning curve, and you are far behind everyone else, and you should spend most probably half a year just skilling up a bit(without doing anything.. it is skill per time), and not so sure about Perpetuum... and with EvE you have to go deeply into a coorp and it is more about the meta game as the actual pvp fight.
So if you ask me.. there is no really great pvp game out there at the moment..
But on the other side, if you enjoyed WoW pvp any of the above may be superior for you. Because WoW pvp sucked, and there wasnt a lot of pvp, not even at the vanilla days.. and now even less. And here a little differentiation.
Did you like the Tarrens Mill zerg fight? Then GW2 WvW will be the right choice for you.. there you got Tarrens Mill fights.. a lot, every day, 24/7. If you enjoyed alterac valley GW2 WvW will be the right choice too, and superior in comparsion.
If you liked more the thrill about attacking being attacked during normal sessions... if you like the unexpected surprise of a fight, and the maybe sometimes even more surprising outcome. You should wait for DF.. there you will get that, and a lot more with the territorial controll and clan wars. It can be epic.. but you shouldnt mind grinding. And you shouldnt mind the dependence from a clan/lot of players.. because as lone wolf or as a little pack you will have a very hard time.
I play at the moment GW2 and i will most probably give DF:UW another try.. but both more of lack of good alternatives.
PS/Edit: And well.. there is Planetside 2. But i dont know anything about it.. never played the original game, nor did i read a lot about it. So how is it? Can someone give a good overview? In comparsion to other pvp mmos and/or games like Battlefield? I guess it is most probably worth a try if someone like me, who enjoyed MMO PvP and the BF series?
Except for the fact that the world is persistent and completely seamless, and HEAVILY social focused.
Planetside 1 & 2 have fully PERSISTENT open worlds
They have no INSTANCING whatsoever.
And also it doesn't feature matches or timed anything.
It is a mmo
Just because it doesn't have dungeons and raids and stuff doesn't make it not a mmo.
Pff. Don't lie DavisFlight.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
About Planetside 2?
When will it release? Will it have an EU release? (EU Server, i really dont want to play with high US ping) Can anyone share a beta key? (PM me) ... i guess i should just read the FAQ o.O
It plays a lot like eve.
Except:
It's a newer game it has less extra features, although the core game is very eve like
Its on land and with mechs instead of spaceships
It uses wasd movement
As its a newer game it has less "well entrenched" players, so its a bit easier on newbies.
Because it doesn't have pve?
If your a pvper in a pvp guild, pvp Can be very socially focused. It seems a lot of heavy pve players don't get this and think pvp is just a side thing you do solo when you're raid buddies aren't on - e.g. wow battlegrounds.
Community wise planetside was really good,much better than several pve focused games I've played e.g. EQ, wow, Aoc, rift, swtor, tsw.
Only games that battered it community wise were coh, daoc and maybe lotr.
Planetside is far FAR more social than just about any AAA MMO released in the last 7 years, except for maybe Vanguard, and possibly GW2.
Or do you think you'll get anything done playing solo? (hint, you won't). The game takes a ton of teamwork, coordination, and communication. Unlike GW2 where you can just walk through encounters and other players are so silent they feel like bots.