In GW2 if you want that next level (the carrot) you have to quest or craft or explore. They don't 'give' you the level, they dangle it out there with activities to accomplish to reach it (the stick).
I don't know how specific I have to be.......every reward you shoot for in GW2 is a carrot, every obstacle you have to overcome to get it is the stick......
So name something you want from GW2. Tell me what you have to do to accomplish it. There is your carrot and your stick....
I think you are referring to th 'gear treadmill'. And I totally agree, GW2 has eliminated this.
So, I stand by my earlier assesment. You are still chasing carrots. They are just fresh and the stick is fun.
Let's not argue about semantics - I'm pretty sure we agree.
Supported by the fact that the mule cannot move away from the stick, and that using a carrot and a stick simultaneously is redundant, some claim that this usage of phrase is erroneous, and that it in fact comes from the figure of a carrot on a stick. In this case, the driver would tie a carrot on a string to a long stick and dangle it in front of the donkey, just out of its reach. As the donkey moved forward to get the carrot, it pulled the cart and the driver so that the carrot would always remain out of reach.
This is always how I've seen and heard "carrot on a stick" defined. It's the situation where, in the case of the mule, you're chasing an unobtainable reward. Carrot/stick games like WoW keep you chasing the carrot with the constant implementation of more and more tiers of gear with the ever-increasing power curve. You can never truly obtain the carrot, for once you think you have you find a newer carrot once again dangling out of reach.
This is not the case in GW2. You're not chasing a carrot. You have a buffett of options in front of you and can choose what you want. Not only that, you can actually reach your goals. You can get legendaries and not worry that next month they'll be obsolete. You can reach 100% completion on a land. (If trends from past expansions holds, new lands will bring new completion goals and not add on to the existing.)
generally I think yes. There are some aspects of the game which are bad. Imo the whole personal storyline was a waste of resources. Dungeons could have been done much better. Still when i look at the game as a whole I see quality. that's why i think the game deserved high scores. No game will be perfect and have every system better than competition, but if the whole quality of the game rises above the standard It definiteley deserves it.
In GW2 if you want that next level (the carrot) you have to quest or craft or explore. They don't 'give' you the level, they dangle it out there with activities to accomplish to reach it (the stick).
I don't know how specific I have to be.......every reward you shoot for in GW2 is a carrot, every obstacle you have to overcome to get it is the stick......
So name something you want from GW2. Tell me what you have to do to accomplish it. There is your carrot and your stick....
I think you are referring to th 'gear treadmill'. And I totally agree, GW2 has eliminated this.
So, I stand by my earlier assesment. You are still chasing carrots. They are just fresh and the stick is fun.
Let's not argue about semantics - I'm pretty sure we agree.
Supported by the fact that the mule cannot move away from the stick, and that using a carrot and a stick simultaneously is redundant, some claim that this usage of phrase is erroneous, and that it in fact comes from the figure of a carrot on a stick. In this case, the driver would tie a carrot on a string to a long stick and dangle it in front of the donkey, just out of its reach. As the donkey moved forward to get the carrot, it pulled the cart and the driver so that the carrot would always remain out of reach.
This is always how I've seen and heard "carrot on a stick" defined. It's the situation where, in the case of the mule, you're chasing an unobtainable reward. Carrot/stick games like WoW keep you chasing the carrot with the constant implementation of more and more tiers of gear with the ever-increasing power curve. You can never truly obtain the carrot, for once you think you have you find a newer carrot once again dangling out of reach.
This is not the case in GW2. You're not chasing a carrot. You have a buffett of options in front of you and can choose what you want. Not only that, you can actually reach your goals. You can get legendaries and not worry that next month they'll be obsolete. You can reach 100% completion on a land. (If trends from past expansions holds, new lands will bring new completion goals and not add on to the existing.)
I'd accept that.
I still don't think I misused the analogy either. But I can see how you differentiate.
I simply think of every game I play as a sort of excersice in carrot/stick.
I still think 'gear treadmill' is closer to what you guys are talking about - but to each his own.
I have one more person on my block list. Thanks for clearing that up.
Someday you will maybe find a video game - hell, or even just a human activity - which isn't a carrot on a stick. But I won't be there to read it, because people using nonsensical generalizations and intentionally misunderstanding or ignoring part of what others are saying just to be right on a video game forum arent' interesting.
Best regards.
EDIT: thanks Volkon - you have more patience than me.
That's pretty funny......
Did I really warrant that?
Is my conception of 'carrot and stick' that offensive?
Is it a misunderstanding to say what he called 'carrot/stick' I think is more accurately referred to as 'the gear treadmill'?
Was it offensive that I agreed that GW2 has eliminated the gear treadmill as we saw it in WoW?
I have one more person on my block list. Thanks for clearing that up.
Someday you will maybe find a video game - hell, or even just a human activity - which isn't a carrot on a stick. But I won't be there to read it, because people using nonsensical generalizations and intentionally misunderstanding or ignoring part of what others are saying just to be right on a video game forum arent' interesting.
Best regards.
EDIT: thanks Volkon - you have more patience than me.
Been doing that lately =P, Sometimes I miss their posts, but then I realize how some of these people cunningly make these posts so they are not somewhat trollish, and you check history and its like you dont even *&^%$# like the damn game, you have had nothing good to say about it, yet here we are listening to the same sh** all over again by yours truely. =P
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
I have one more person on my block list. Thanks for clearing that up.
Someday you will maybe find a video game - hell, or even just a human activity - which isn't a carrot on a stick. But I won't be there to read it, because people using nonsensical generalizations and intentionally misunderstanding or ignoring part of what others are saying just to be right on a video game forum arent' interesting.
Best regards.
EDIT: thanks Volkon - you have more patience than me.
That's pretty funny......
Did I really warrant that?
Is my conception of 'carrot and stick' that offensive?
Is it a misunderstanding to say what he called 'carrot/stick' I think is more accurately referred to as 'the gear treadmill'?
Was it offensive that I agreed that GW2 has eliminated the gear treadmill as we saw it in WoW?
Wow.
i see your point.. although see theirs as well.. mostly people view carrot/stick games as synonymous with gear treadmills it's sort of the defining feature of that type of game and always has been imho. Not sure on the block though.. i just read several of your posts and don't really see any reason why someone would need to block you
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I have one more person on my block list. Thanks for clearing that up.
Someday you will maybe find a video game - hell, or even just a human activity - which isn't a carrot on a stick. But I won't be there to read it, because people using nonsensical generalizations and intentionally misunderstanding or ignoring part of what others are saying just to be right on a video game forum arent' interesting.
Best regards.
EDIT: thanks Volkon - you have more patience than me.
Been doing that lately =P, Sometimes I miss their posts, but then I realize how some of these people cunningly make these posts so they are not somewhat trollish, and you check history and its like you dont even *&^%$# like the damn game, you have had nothing good to say about it, yet here we are listening to the same sh** all over again by yours truely. =P
The topic is 'do you feel GW2 deserves the critical acclaim?'
Didn't you think there may be some people who don't like the game responding?
You guys want to scream about the troll that is running loose, when its one or two half-cocked fanboys that are becoming the problem in this thread.
I like GW2.
It does not contain the elements I look for to consider it a true 'mmorpg'. Although technically it is,it is far from my conception of what one should be.
I don't like the personal stories or voice overs.
I think it provides a carrot and stick as much as any other video game.
I have one more person on my block list. Thanks for clearing that up.
Someday you will maybe find a video game - hell, or even just a human activity - which isn't a carrot on a stick. But I won't be there to read it, because people using nonsensical generalizations and intentionally misunderstanding or ignoring part of what others are saying just to be right on a video game forum arent' interesting.
Best regards.
EDIT: thanks Volkon - you have more patience than me.
That's pretty funny......
Did I really warrant that?
Is my conception of 'carrot and stick' that offensive?
Is it a misunderstanding to say what he called 'carrot/stick' I think is more accurately referred to as 'the gear treadmill'?
Was it offensive that I agreed that GW2 has eliminated the gear treadmill as we saw it in WoW?
Wow.
i see your point.. although see theirs as well.. mostly people view carrot/stick games as synonymous with gear treadmills it's sort of the defining feature of that type of game and always has been imho. Not sure on the block though.. i just read several of your posts and don't really see any reason why someone would need to block you
I have one more person on my block list. Thanks for clearing that up.
Someday you will maybe find a video game - hell, or even just a human activity - which isn't a carrot on a stick. But I won't be there to read it, because people using nonsensical generalizations and intentionally misunderstanding or ignoring part of what others are saying just to be right on a video game forum arent' interesting.
Best regards.
EDIT: thanks Volkon - you have more patience than me.
That's pretty funny......
Did I really warrant that?
Is my conception of 'carrot and stick' that offensive?
Is it a misunderstanding to say what he called 'carrot/stick' I think is more accurately referred to as 'the gear treadmill'?
Was it offensive that I agreed that GW2 has eliminated the gear treadmill as we saw it in WoW?
Wow.
i see your point.. although see theirs as well.. mostly people view carrot/stick games as synonymous with gear treadmills it's sort of the defining feature of that type of game and always has been imho. Not sure on the block though.. i just read several of your posts and don't really see any reason why someone would need to block you
I appreciate the reassurance.
I thought I might be missing something.
There are some that block all that don't share their exact point of view. Kind of defeats the purpose of "discussion." I say wear that "Block" with a sense of pride.
People are doing the same, repetitive, isolated and non persistent content in order to get "stuffz" in GW2, it's just that the "stuffz" is purely cosmetic.Whilst that seems an improvement, it doesn't exactly seem worth writing home about.
When they release a new dungeon with new tokens and skins, people will grind away at it and then wait for the next.
Reread my post carefully, and you'll maybe understand the difference. I'm gonna highlight the word "mandatory'" to help you.
I understand the difference hence the point about it being an improvement, just not a massive one. I've underlined it to help you.
People are still doing exactly the same grind, they are just doing it for skins instead of stats. Awesome.
You missed the fact that people are doing them because they want to, not because they have to. I myself don't plan to grind for skins, and hey, whadya know? I can still play the game and do anything the guy with Legendaries can!
I have one more person on my block list. Thanks for clearing that up.
Someday you will maybe find a video game - hell, or even just a human activity - which isn't a carrot on a stick. But I won't be there to read it, because people using nonsensical generalizations and intentionally misunderstanding or ignoring part of what others are saying just to be right on a video game forum arent' interesting.
Best regards.
EDIT: thanks Volkon - you have more patience than me.
That's pretty funny......
Did I really warrant that?
Is my conception of 'carrot and stick' that offensive?
Is it a misunderstanding to say what he called 'carrot/stick' I think is more accurately referred to as 'the gear treadmill'?
Was it offensive that I agreed that GW2 has eliminated the gear treadmill as we saw it in WoW?
Wow.
i see your point.. although see theirs as well.. mostly people view carrot/stick games as synonymous with gear treadmills it's sort of the defining feature of that type of game and always has been imho. Not sure on the block though.. i just read several of your posts and don't really see any reason why someone would need to block you
I appreciate the reassurance.
I thought I might be missing something.
There are some that block all that don't share their exact point of view. Kind of defeats the purpose of "discussion." I say wear that "Block" with a sense of pride.
I agree. Being blocked by a fanboy isn't something to be concerned about. Its not like its going to have significant impact somewhere, somehow in your life. If anything, it should put a smile on your face.
But back to the OP..
I think GW2 is a good game for some people. I think the selected reviews had a strong bias, but hey, it definitly set the tone for this thread. I personally don't put too much into reviewer articles. They are just a person, and are usually working with an agenda, and some of them usually get incentive for writing a favorable piece. The few that are genuinely unbiased on a business level still suffer from personal bias. Its still one person's opinion, and it isn't yours (unless you've played the game and agree with what they are saying). I prefer to go by my own experience.
So, to the title and question, I think it deserves some of the praise. Its good, it does what it aimed to do, but its not great (for me).
GW2 has been out long enough for the fans to form a solid opinion on the game. How do you feel about the critcal aclaim that the game has gotten from many reviews & game sites? Were they right on the money, or hyped up dramatically? Few examples below, but the list goes on.
G4 - Best MMO Game of 2012
JeuxVideo - Guild Wars 2 isn't a simple sequel, this MMO is a revolution!
PC Gamer #207 - groundbreaking world events and mind-blowing class design
VG247 UK - Ridiculous attention to details... shockingly good
Quarter to Three - This isn't just a great example of the genre and arguably the Second Coming of MMOs.
Gamer.nl - After years of EverQuest clones the genre finally makes a great leap forward.
Need more options in the poll.
I absolutly think GW2 deserves the positiv critic it has got, loads of people has bought the game(me too) many still playes the game and love it(not me) so the game lives up to houndreds thousend people so well dunn.
Just wish someone makes a mmorpg tha I like too:-)
Originally posted by ragz45 Purpously left out middle ground. Because everyone tends to pick the middle ground instead of actually making a choice, so that they can see the poll results.
Right, because some people don't have an opinion either way. You simply omit the "show the results" % from the comparisons.
If it's 30% yes, 30% no, and 40% "show the results", then you know that the "yes" and "no" are tied, for example.
I've never seen a "show the results" option deter people from selecting the option they prefer. For example, I'm curious about the results myself, but I wont' pick one or the other because I haven't played it enough to give a fair assessment.
Maybe you can update your OP with the results as of a given time and date, so at least those of us curious of the results can get the gist of it?
It does not contain the elements I look for to consider it a true 'mmorpg'. Although technically it is,it is far from my conception of what one should be.
See, now I'm thinking that concept is becoming a defining hurdle that is holding the genre back. I've been playing since way back when and what I think made the early games great and hold such esteem in our memories is that people playing didn't really think about the "mmorpg" concept.
People played games because they were fun, they were online, and it was so different from single player gaming. People weren't trying to see if a game fit some preconceved notion that has so many diverse interpretations.
I think we should stop worrying about that stuff and start encouraging game design that is fun. With bandwidth becoming so cheap and easy more and more stuff is becoming massively multi-player and online. How about that Star Citizen? Roberts said it's not going to be just an MMO, but a much more encompassing gameplay experience. Why limit ourselves to concepts that were narrowly defined by techonological limitations.
As to the carrot/stick. I can see that as dangling an incentive, but in the context of the genre it is typically understood to be a reference to the gear treadmill. So in the respect that they dangle incentives out in front of us to pursue, then yeah, GW2 has that in spade. Lost of interesting things I want to accomplish in this game. On the other hand if it's meant to imply the same sort of continually out of reach satisfaction that gear progression creates then I would disagree.
Y'know, I really agree.
It is really difficult to not come off as elitist when talking about the 'concept' of what makes an 'mmorpg'.
I understand that often when people say, 'It's not an mmorpg" they mean that as a slight, as derogatory.
And if it seems like it is a slight to gw2, it isn't; it's a disappointment, because I thought that it might. It is a great game for what it is, but it simply isn't what i hoped it would be.
I should be careful to qualify, that, even though a game doesn't fit my conception of a mmorpg, itdoesn't mean I dislike the game. In fact, I may like a game that doesn't fit my conception more than some games that do, believe it or not.
And I think GW2 is a quality product; has fun elements; just don't think it is the game changer "I" was looking for.
But....
I should really just drop it. Mmorpg's are what they are. So they aren't what I thought they'd be......it isn't the end of the world.
The truth is that there are more games labelled 'mmorpg' that do not fit my concept then games that do. Just by the outnumbering, my definition has been rendered obsolete.
I agree too that we should just encourage 'fun' game development; who cares what category it falls into if it's fun.
But damn......those voice overs get under my skin and I still hope for a new game that does fit my out-of-date conceptions.
edit: oh - and I really and truly was unaware that carrot/stick was synonomous with gear treadmill in gaming vernacular. Which surprises me. I mean, I was talking carrot and stick before WoW so systemitized the concept.
I truly was thinking of it in its colloquial usage; in which not only does the gear treadmill fit, but all video games as a whole. In some ways, it's like the mmorpg 'concept' thing I have. I don't think it is derogatory. I proudly chase carrots on a stick in every game I play. For me, having a goal just out of reach is part of the challenge and fun. And besides, I know how to get the carrot.../wink.
I am interested in taking another look at Guild Wars 2 in the future when they have everything sorted out, but, currently, it does not have anything to keep me logging in--other than possibly leveling alts.
Originally posted by aphydork I am interested in taking another look at Guild Wars 2 in the future when they have everything sorted out, but, currently, it does not have anything to keep me logging in--other than possibly leveling alts.
This is where I am at. Right now its a nice framework, and hopefully some meat will be added to its bones. It just launched, however, and I have yet to see any game be complete right out the gate. Look at RIFT. It was so empty of content at launch that people played for 2 weeks and left. A year later, following a lot of attention to feedback and criticism, the dev's improved the game substantially enough that people who left at launch came back and stayed. Additionally, their corporate-consumer communicaitons is amazing, so they keep making improvements in leaps and bounds that the community is very happy with. Now, while I have played RIFT, its not exactly my cup of tea. What is important here is that their launch is echoing GW2's, as people are leaving for similar reasons: lack of substance. RIFT turned it around though, and so could GW2.
One of the things that I am afraid of is that Trion entered the Rift release with a great sense of humility. They took feedback very seriously from the beginning.
Anet has somewhat resisted feedback with the argument that this is their intentional design, and players, who had problems with Guild Wars 1 early on, learned to like it.
That attitude is slightly reminiscent of that of Final Fantasy XIV's developers. That terrifies me. FFXIV: ARR might turn it around (I am hoping to love A Realm Reborn), but it took them far longer to adopt Trion's mentality of working with players early on.
The whole argument about gw2 being antisocial is lolsworthy and just ridiculous. I run De's, pug dungeons and wvw every day without a guild. I talk to and laugh with others in local (green) chat all the time. I've never met so many cool people in an mmo before.
One of the things that I am afraid of is that Trion entered the Rift release with a great sense of humility. They took feedback very seriously from the beginning.
Anet has somewhat resisted feedback with the argument that this is their intentional design, and players, who had problems with Guild Wars 1 early on, learned to like it.
That attitude is slightly reminiscent of that of Final Fantasy XIV's developers. That terrifies me. FFXIV: ARR might turn it around (I am hoping to love A Realm Reborn), but it took them far longer to adopt Trion's mentality of working with players early on.
i dunno sounds like they are trying to listen.. main thing is no one agree's on what they want so who do you listen to?
Why These Features and Not Others?
We’re always listening to our player base, and taking their feedback and ideas into account. We watch the forums on multiple sites. We read the comments on Guild Wars 2 articles. We take off our guild tags, sit in crowded maps in game, and eavesdrop on your conversations and unfettered opinions. Who watches the watchers? We do.
We hear a lot of the things you’ve asked for. And the truth is, a lot of the features you want will be added in the future. Just because we don’t do everything you want, exactly when you want it, does not mean we aren’t listening. There’s a ton of stuff we want tell you about – just not yet. The features we’re adding now will go a long way in helping the sPvP community grow, but there’s still more to do. Again, we don’t like talking about features until we’re ready to show them. We don’t like empty promises, and we know you don’t either. But, at the same time, we do want you to know that other features are coming! We’re trying to strike that balance in this blog post.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
i see your point.. although see theirs as well.. mostly people view carrot/stick games as synonymous with gear treadmills it's sort of the defining feature of that type of game and always has been imho. Not sure on the block though.. i just read several of your posts and don't really see any reason why someone would need to block you
I tried to explain several times that the "eternal grind", in GW2, was only optional. He ignored what I was saying to repeat the same stuff again. There's no third time, I won't waste more of my time arguing with someone who doesn't listen.
Fact is there's no mandatory grind at 80 in GW2 to be/remain competitive, neither PvE nor PvP wise. Anyone pretending otherwise is not telling the truth, and I don't see why I would waste time arguing with someone who uses flawed argumentation and wrong facts as basis and doesn't even read what I'm saying.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
It does not contain the elements I look for to consider it a true 'mmorpg'. Although technically it is,it is far from my conception of what one should be.
See, now I'm thinking that concept is becoming a defining hurdle that is holding the genre back. I've been playing since way back when and what I think made the early games great and hold such esteem in our memories is that people playing didn't really think about the "mmorpg" concept.
People played games because they were fun, they were online, and it was so different from single player gaming. People weren't trying to see if a game fit some preconceved notion that has so many diverse interpretations.
I think we should stop worrying about that stuff and start encouraging game design that is fun. With bandwidth becoming so cheap and easy more and more stuff is becoming massively multi-player and online. How about that Star Citizen? Roberts said it's not going to be just an MMO, but a much more encompassing gameplay experience. Why limit ourselves to concepts that were narrowly defined by techonological limitations.
As to the carrot/stick. I can see that as dangling an incentive, but in the context of the genre it is typically understood to be a reference to the gear treadmill. So in the respect that they dangle incentives out in front of us to pursue, then yeah, GW2 has that in spade. Lost of interesting things I want to accomplish in this game. On the other hand if it's meant to imply the same sort of continually out of reach satisfaction that gear progression creates then I would disagree.
Y'know, I really agree.
It is really difficult to not come off as elitist when talking about the 'concept' of what makes an 'mmorpg'.
I understand that often when people say, 'It's not an mmorpg" they mean that as a slight, as derogatory.
And if it seems like it is a slight to gw2, it isn't; it's a disappointment, because I thought that it might. It is a great game for what it is, but it simply isn't what i hoped it would be.
I should be careful to qualify, that, even though a game doesn't fit my conception of a mmorpg, itdoesn't mean I dislike the game. In fact, I may like a game that doesn't fit my conception more than some games that do, believe it or not.
Then what is your conecption of an mmorpg?
To me it's exactly what the name stands for; massivly multiplayer online role playing game.
It's played by thousands of people (at least) in the same time so it's massivly multiplayer (since you always see people walking around and you can do group events with those people).
RPG - because I'm a charr ranger, something I can't be in RL so I'm role playing and adventuring trought the world which can't be seen anywhere else..
Everything that fits into those frames is MMORPG to me. It doesn't have to be seamless world, it doesn't have to be superbly inovative or all those garbage reasons people are finding for not calling a game an mmorpg.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
i see your point.. although see theirs as well.. mostly people view carrot/stick games as synonymous with gear treadmills it's sort of the defining feature of that type of game and always has been imho. Not sure on the block though.. i just read several of your posts and don't really see any reason why someone would need to block you
I tried to explain several times that the "eternal grind", in GW2, was only optional. He ignored what I was saying to repeat the same stuff again. There's no third time, I won't waste more of my time arguing with someone who doesn't listen.
Fact is there's no mandatory grind at 80 in GW2 to be/remain competitive, neither PvE nor PvP wise. Anyone pretending otherwise is not telling the truth, and I don't see why I would waste time arguing with someone who uses flawed argumentation and wrong facts as basis and doesn't even read what I'm saying.
He actually asked me to give an example of carrot/stick in GW2 and said he wasn't satisfied. So he requested that 3rd response.
There is no strict way to define 'carrot on the stick' It is open to interpretation. Even mere cosmetic gear or weapons can very well be carrot on the stick.
If someone is blocking you for giving your opinion.....trust me that person isn't worth talking to in first place.
Comments
Supported by the fact that the mule cannot move away from the stick, and that using a carrot and a stick simultaneously is redundant, some claim that this usage of phrase is erroneous, and that it in fact comes from the figure of a carrot on a stick. In this case, the driver would tie a carrot on a string to a long stick and dangle it in front of the donkey, just out of its reach. As the donkey moved forward to get the carrot, it pulled the cart and the driver so that the carrot would always remain out of reach.
This is always how I've seen and heard "carrot on a stick" defined. It's the situation where, in the case of the mule, you're chasing an unobtainable reward. Carrot/stick games like WoW keep you chasing the carrot with the constant implementation of more and more tiers of gear with the ever-increasing power curve. You can never truly obtain the carrot, for once you think you have you find a newer carrot once again dangling out of reach.
This is not the case in GW2. You're not chasing a carrot. You have a buffett of options in front of you and can choose what you want. Not only that, you can actually reach your goals. You can get legendaries and not worry that next month they'll be obsolete. You can reach 100% completion on a land. (If trends from past expansions holds, new lands will bring new completion goals and not add on to the existing.)
Oderint, dum metuant.
I'd accept that.
I still don't think I misused the analogy either. But I can see how you differentiate.
I simply think of every game I play as a sort of excersice in carrot/stick.
I still think 'gear treadmill' is closer to what you guys are talking about - but to each his own.
That's pretty funny......
Did I really warrant that?
Is my conception of 'carrot and stick' that offensive?
Is it a misunderstanding to say what he called 'carrot/stick' I think is more accurately referred to as 'the gear treadmill'?
Was it offensive that I agreed that GW2 has eliminated the gear treadmill as we saw it in WoW?
Wow.
Been doing that lately =P, Sometimes I miss their posts, but then I realize how some of these people cunningly make these posts so they are not somewhat trollish, and you check history and its like you dont even *&^%$# like the damn game, you have had nothing good to say about it, yet here we are listening to the same sh** all over again by yours truely. =P
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
i see your point.. although see theirs as well.. mostly people view carrot/stick games as synonymous with gear treadmills it's sort of the defining feature of that type of game and always has been imho. Not sure on the block though.. i just read several of your posts and don't really see any reason why someone would need to block you
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The topic is 'do you feel GW2 deserves the critical acclaim?'
Didn't you think there may be some people who don't like the game responding?
You guys want to scream about the troll that is running loose, when its one or two half-cocked fanboys that are becoming the problem in this thread.
I like GW2.
It does not contain the elements I look for to consider it a true 'mmorpg'. Although technically it is,it is far from my conception of what one should be.
I don't like the personal stories or voice overs.
I think it provides a carrot and stick as much as any other video game.
I think it has ended the gear treadmill.
--------------------------------------------------
Those have been my points in this thread.
None of that is troll material. None of that insults a GW player. All of it is related directly to the thread's topic.
I appreciate the reassurance.
I thought I might be missing something.
There are some that block all that don't share their exact point of view. Kind of defeats the purpose of "discussion." I say wear that "Block" with a sense of pride.
You missed the fact that people are doing them because they want to, not because they have to. I myself don't plan to grind for skins, and hey, whadya know? I can still play the game and do anything the guy with Legendaries can!
I agree. Being blocked by a fanboy isn't something to be concerned about. Its not like its going to have significant impact somewhere, somehow in your life. If anything, it should put a smile on your face.
But back to the OP..
I think GW2 is a good game for some people. I think the selected reviews had a strong bias, but hey, it definitly set the tone for this thread. I personally don't put too much into reviewer articles. They are just a person, and are usually working with an agenda, and some of them usually get incentive for writing a favorable piece. The few that are genuinely unbiased on a business level still suffer from personal bias. Its still one person's opinion, and it isn't yours (unless you've played the game and agree with what they are saying). I prefer to go by my own experience.
So, to the title and question, I think it deserves some of the praise. Its good, it does what it aimed to do, but its not great (for me).
Need more options in the poll.
I absolutly think GW2 deserves the positiv critic it has got, loads of people has bought the game(me too) many still playes the game and love it(not me) so the game lives up to houndreds thousend people so well dunn.
Just wish someone makes a mmorpg tha I like too:-)
Right, because some people don't have an opinion either way. You simply omit the "show the results" % from the comparisons.
If it's 30% yes, 30% no, and 40% "show the results", then you know that the "yes" and "no" are tied, for example.
I've never seen a "show the results" option deter people from selecting the option they prefer. For example, I'm curious about the results myself, but I wont' pick one or the other because I haven't played it enough to give a fair assessment.
Maybe you can update your OP with the results as of a given time and date, so at least those of us curious of the results can get the gist of it?
Y'know, I really agree.
It is really difficult to not come off as elitist when talking about the 'concept' of what makes an 'mmorpg'.
I understand that often when people say, 'It's not an mmorpg" they mean that as a slight, as derogatory.
And if it seems like it is a slight to gw2, it isn't; it's a disappointment, because I thought that it might. It is a great game for what it is, but it simply isn't what i hoped it would be.
I should be careful to qualify, that, even though a game doesn't fit my conception of a mmorpg, itdoesn't mean I dislike the game. In fact, I may like a game that doesn't fit my conception more than some games that do, believe it or not.
And I think GW2 is a quality product; has fun elements; just don't think it is the game changer "I" was looking for.
But....
I should really just drop it. Mmorpg's are what they are. So they aren't what I thought they'd be......it isn't the end of the world.
The truth is that there are more games labelled 'mmorpg' that do not fit my concept then games that do. Just by the outnumbering, my definition has been rendered obsolete.
I agree too that we should just encourage 'fun' game development; who cares what category it falls into if it's fun.
But damn......those voice overs get under my skin and I still hope for a new game that does fit my out-of-date conceptions.
edit: oh - and I really and truly was unaware that carrot/stick was synonomous with gear treadmill in gaming vernacular. Which surprises me. I mean, I was talking carrot and stick before WoW so systemitized the concept.
I truly was thinking of it in its colloquial usage; in which not only does the gear treadmill fit, but all video games as a whole. In some ways, it's like the mmorpg 'concept' thing I have. I don't think it is derogatory. I proudly chase carrots on a stick in every game I play. For me, having a goal just out of reach is part of the challenge and fun. And besides, I know how to get the carrot.../wink.
This is where I am at. Right now its a nice framework, and hopefully some meat will be added to its bones. It just launched, however, and I have yet to see any game be complete right out the gate. Look at RIFT. It was so empty of content at launch that people played for 2 weeks and left. A year later, following a lot of attention to feedback and criticism, the dev's improved the game substantially enough that people who left at launch came back and stayed. Additionally, their corporate-consumer communicaitons is amazing, so they keep making improvements in leaps and bounds that the community is very happy with. Now, while I have played RIFT, its not exactly my cup of tea. What is important here is that their launch is echoing GW2's, as people are leaving for similar reasons: lack of substance. RIFT turned it around though, and so could GW2.
One of the things that I am afraid of is that Trion entered the Rift release with a great sense of humility. They took feedback very seriously from the beginning.
Anet has somewhat resisted feedback with the argument that this is their intentional design, and players, who had problems with Guild Wars 1 early on, learned to like it.
That attitude is slightly reminiscent of that of Final Fantasy XIV's developers. That terrifies me. FFXIV: ARR might turn it around (I am hoping to love A Realm Reborn), but it took them far longer to adopt Trion's mentality of working with players early on.
i dunno sounds like they are trying to listen.. main thing is no one agree's on what they want so who do you listen to?
Why These Features and Not Others?
We’re always listening to our player base, and taking their feedback and ideas into account. We watch the forums on multiple sites. We read the comments on Guild Wars 2 articles. We take off our guild tags, sit in crowded maps in game, and eavesdrop on your conversations and unfettered opinions. Who watches the watchers? We do.
We hear a lot of the things you’ve asked for. And the truth is, a lot of the features you want will be added in the future. Just because we don’t do everything you want, exactly when you want it, does not mean we aren’t listening. There’s a ton of stuff we want tell you about – just not yet. The features we’re adding now will go a long way in helping the sPvP community grow, but there’s still more to do. Again, we don’t like talking about features until we’re ready to show them. We don’t like empty promises, and we know you don’t either. But, at the same time, we do want you to know that other features are coming! We’re trying to strike that balance in this blog post.
from
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/structured-pvp-iceberg/
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
What they do with the feedback is what matters. We can't really tell how well they'll handle changes until the first major patch.
From what I've seen, they tend to overdo things or do nothing at all. Fine-tuning is an art that they're a bit clumsy in at the moment.
Oh yes, I remember the "you are not in Azeroth anymore" advertisement campain. That was very humble indeed.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I tried to explain several times that the "eternal grind", in GW2, was only optional. He ignored what I was saying to repeat the same stuff again. There's no third time, I won't waste more of my time arguing with someone who doesn't listen.
Fact is there's no mandatory grind at 80 in GW2 to be/remain competitive, neither PvE nor PvP wise. Anyone pretending otherwise is not telling the truth, and I don't see why I would waste time arguing with someone who uses flawed argumentation and wrong facts as basis and doesn't even read what I'm saying.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Then what is your conecption of an mmorpg?
To me it's exactly what the name stands for; massivly multiplayer online role playing game.
It's played by thousands of people (at least) in the same time so it's massivly multiplayer (since you always see people walking around and you can do group events with those people).
RPG - because I'm a charr ranger, something I can't be in RL so I'm role playing and adventuring trought the world which can't be seen anywhere else..
Everything that fits into those frames is MMORPG to me. It doesn't have to be seamless world, it doesn't have to be superbly inovative or all those garbage reasons people are finding for not calling a game an mmorpg.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
He actually asked me to give an example of carrot/stick in GW2 and said he wasn't satisfied. So he requested that 3rd response.
There is no strict way to define 'carrot on the stick' It is open to interpretation. Even mere cosmetic gear or weapons can very well be carrot on the stick.
If someone is blocking you for giving your opinion.....trust me that person isn't worth talking to in first place.