I can't wait for EQN. EQ changed my life and I still think about all of the great times we had pre-PoP after that it just went south. I hope we can rekindle the fire again in EQN and hopefully make it stick this time.
Originally posted by DavisFlight So long as there are no instances it should be good.
Is that one of the ruls of a true sandbox now? So many rules :P
It's one of the rules of a good MMO, generally. Very few MMOs know how to properly limit instances or how to design good gameplay, so they use instancing as a band aid for all their gameplay shortcomings.
A well made MMO has no real need of instances. The only arguable benefit of instancing is when telling a scripted story, and if a sandbox game is doing that, then it's not a very good sandbox, is it?
And who made these rules? you are head of some kind of authority here which makes the rules about what is a good MMO or not? or i am missing some 'facts' here? a published rule book of some kind?
Last time I remember reading about game being 'reworked' because the team was 'unhappy' with the current build was in UWO. I hope EQNext doesn't end up with the same fate
I'm not a huge PvE guy, but I'd love to play the next EQ.
Originally posted by DMKano What SOE is going to do is build a theme park game and then have a zone with a playground with a ginormous sandbox and then they can say "told you it be the biggest sandbox ever"
If they really wanted to screw with us they could put like 30 quest NPCs in the middle of this sandbox.
I think we are talking the sandbox-theme park hybrid here. You go from ride to ride in the game, but there are non-linear elements in the game play that give the feeling of a completely open world when in fact it is not. Then simply bolt in a full pay to win cash shop along with a free-to-play option for game play and we are talking EQ Next.
I think SOE must have realised that the inital effort wasn't great and have scrapped EQ Next version one for version two. That's all well and good, and SOE have a lot of MMO experience now, but everyone who is a gamer just knows that SOE are struggling here. Can they pull it off, I guess we see next year.
You actually think EQ breaks even or makes a profit ? News flash it doesn't in fact EQ and EQ2 haven't made a profit in years that f2p game free realms is what keeps eq alive.
Also if you read leaked stuff from years ago EQ next was gonna be EQ 3 Free realms style themed. It sounds to me like they're going more open world sandbox the question is are there millions of people who want a PVE sandbox because EQN will not be a PVP sand box that is out of the question.
If they learned from SWG (which was amazing at release imo) it WILL have pvp elements. If they have sandbox style gathering, crafting, building placement, guild "cities" and such, having open world land control mechanics similar to SWG would be a natural fit.... Makes me wish I was reading about SWG Next. lol
“I have to be honest with you. We have completely blown up the design of EverQuest Next. For the last year and a half we have been working on something we are not ready to show. Why did we blow up the design? The design was evolutionary. It was EverQuest III. It was something that was slightly better that what had come before it. IT was slightly better. What we are building is something that we will be very proud to call EverQuest. It will be the largest sandbox style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you’ve never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn’t want more Kill 10 Rats quests. We didn’t want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they’r delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game.
What I will commit to is, at the next Fan Faire, not only will you get to see it but you will get to touch it. Most of the EQNext devs are in this room. If you get them drunk enough they might tell you. They’re led by Dave Georgeson. Terry Michaels. Vets from EQ and EQ2. We are remaking Norrath unlike anything you’ve ever seen, but you’ll recognize it. I’m sorry we don’t have anything to show for it, but I wanted to be honest with you and tell you a little bit about it. Keep the faith.”
Maybe, if we are fortunate, they are taking cues from Citadel of Sorcery.
Originally posted by health001 i cant tell u how many times ive heard the word "promised" from john smelly,only to be let down
I can tell you how many games promised something new and better and were only let downs. WoW and every clone are good examples of the worst games ever made.
Originally posted by YakCast I love how he said, EverQuest Next would be the "world's largest sandbox" I think the only type of sandbox SOE is aware of are the ones kids play in at the park. I won't hold my breath but I would be amazed if SOE was capable of doing something and not totally screwing it up!
They created swg the ultimate sandbox mmo except it was ahead of it's time. They are well aware of what a sandbox is.
Sandbox is the next big thing for the MMO industry.
Now that a big gun like SoE jumped on the wagon, I expect some smaller fish to do the same (who knows, maybe even Blizzard with Titan).
Anyway the EQ IP is my favourite and this is the news I was expecting for almost 10 years.
The only negative is that the game won't release before the end of 2014
I think Funcom already tried to set the tone with The Secret World.
Eventho that game isn't everyone's cup of tea and the setting serves a niche.
They still did something radical different and it's good to see that another studio (SOE in this case) is following suit.
The only sandbox game that Funcom ever made was AO. TSW is also not "radically different", and SoE pretty much told everyone the EQnext was going to be a sandbox years ago.
If there's one thing that SoE understands and does very well, it's that as a publisher of online games you have to differentiate the games you make and publish from the other games you make and publish.
EQ2 is actually not that much like EQ, and they've been saying for years that EQnext would not be like EQ2.
This is where MMO's are going to go, not because another company did it, but because every other studio is already doing the same thing and it's not been working. If anything it would be more appropriate to say that western developers have finally started paying attention to the LARGEST MMO MARKET IN THE WORLD, and where that market is headed. Korea and China have a number of sandbox MMO's in the works. Western developers have been so fixated on trying to achieve the same level of success that Blizzard did with WoW that they've pretty much been stifling creativety and innovation in favor of trying to "improve" upon systems that have been done to death.
Hybrids aren't the answer either, it's an oxymoron. Either you make a sandbox or you make a themepark, or you make a game that has two different, seperated, modes of play. GW2 is still a themepark, Archage will be a sandbox; not a hybrid.
There are also many more MMOFPS's being developed that are starting to catch on more within the genre, and they tend to lend themselves better to a more sandbox oriented gameplay experience.
Some developers are paying attention (SoE, and I'm betting Blizzard as well) while others see it and just dismiss it as too hard (Zenimax online).
A good sandbox should be one of the best selling MMO's ever, because a good sandbox will have all the content that people like in themeparks; without the developer imposed restrictions and grind to produce content to keep with the pace of the players.
Besided, dynamic content is becoming more and more the norm for themepark content delivery, and the more dynamic developers are able to make the content the less themepark the game gets. Eventually MMO's will shift to the dynamc virtual worlds that many people expected them to become years ago.
Sandbox is the next big thing for the MMO industry.
Now that a big gun like SoE jumped on the wagon, I expect some smaller fish to do the same (who knows, maybe even Blizzard with Titan).
Anyway the EQ IP is my favourite and this is the news I was expecting for almost 10 years.
The only negative is that the game won't release before the end of 2014
I think Funcom already tried to set the tone with The Secret World.
Eventho that game isn't everyone's cup of tea and the setting serves a niche.
They still did something radical different and it's good to see that another studio (SOE in this case) is following suit.
how? the secret world is just as much a themepark as wow is one, it even has end gaming raiding .
You....have not even touched that game, have you?
TSW is neither themepark nor sandbox, but does have slight elements of both.
I have actually and it is very much a themepark it's not even close to a sandbox. It has end game instanced raidng for christ sake, nothing says themepark more than raiding.
Sandbox is the next big thing for the MMO industry.
Now that a big gun like SoE jumped on the wagon, I expect some smaller fish to do the same (who knows, maybe even Blizzard with Titan).
Anyway the EQ IP is my favourite and this is the news I was expecting for almost 10 years.
The only negative is that the game won't release before the end of 2014
I think Funcom already tried to set the tone with The Secret World.
Eventho that game isn't everyone's cup of tea and the setting serves a niche.
They still did something radical different and it's good to see that another studio (SOE in this case) is following suit.
how? the secret world is just as much a themepark as wow is one, it even has end gaming raiding .
You....have not even touched that game, have you?
TSW is neither themepark nor sandbox, but does have slight elements of both.
I have actually and it is very much a themepark it's not even close to a sandbox. It has end game instanced raidng for christ sake, nothing says themepark more than raiding.
People can bash SOE all they want. The fact of the matter is that they launched the only two MMO I've ever played longer than 30 days: SWG & EQ2. Playen 'em both for years. They dropped a bomb with NGE, but we all learn from mistakes.
How many years ago were those and how many of those developers/designers are on EQNext?
It isn't the company that makes the product, it's the people. If none of those people are around anymore, how are you certain it will be a good product?
MMOs aren't like dish soap, customer loyalty runs thin. Just look at FFXI and FFXIV.. same company, totally different results.
Hell I am going to be trippin' for a very long time knowing I am the most excited over a SOE and EQ project than anything else. You think a major mmo developer finally actually "gets it"?
Seeing a sandbox games appeal to a niche crowd.. Sorry but This will fail if SOE is aiming for mass market (1mil +), unless it has themepark elements thrown in.. Most mmo players are spoil on the luxury and ease of theme park mmo, and choosing the path of least resistance you think a "pure sandbox" will ever be mass market without some dumbing down so theme park lovers can get there fix also..
Remember SOE has Sony investors to answer to that alone should make you remain skeptical because at the end of the day these guys want numbers at the start and few months over..
Originally posted by Xstatic912 Seeing a sandbox games appeal to a niche crowd.. Sorry but This will fail if SOE is aiming for mass market (1mil +), unless it has themepark elements thrown in.. Most mmo players are spoil on the luxury and ease of theme park mmo, and choosing the path of least resistance you think a "pure sandbox" will ever be mass market without some dumbing down so theme park lovers can get there fix also..
Remember SOE has Sony investors to answer to that alone should make you remain skeptical because at the end of the day these guys want numbers at the start and few months over..
Basically ... screw themepark players.
Also I think that you underestimate players. The vast majority of mainstream mmo players now come from non-rpg, non oldschool games or even new to pc gaming entirely. If a product is good they will learn and play it. They entered the genre through solid games with solid gameplay not because they were simply themeparks. Too many people have seen existing sandbox games as extremely complext and difficult to learn due to their lack of user-friendly systems and tutorials. There is no reason why SOE can't make a sandbox game easy to learn.
Most players flat out do not even know how fun a good sandbox can be and make many assumptions not based on personal experience. If a game is good, people will play it. It is that simple. SOE is better off anyway with attracting a lower number of players who stick around longer than today's pattern of massive upfront sales and massive post-release abandonment.
SOE has always had some good ideas for new games... Planetside and SWG come to mind especially. Where they underperform is in completing their games and releasing quality expansions/updates. A few great updates in Planetside and SWG, but both ended in disaster (core combat and NGE). Planetside 2 is another example of this thus far, good concepts but they are pushing a november release date and they simply don't have enough time to make good on promises by launch. EQ Next will probably be the same.
They will launch and promise to add the sandbox content later... But a real sandbox game needs to be sandbox at its core, from the ground up.
SOE has always had some good ideas for new games... Planetside and SWG come to mind especially. Where they underperform is in completing their games and releasing quality expansions/updates. A few great updates in Planetside and SWG, but both ended in disaster (core combat and NGE). Planetside 2 is another example of this thus far, good concepts but they are pushing a november release date and they simply don't have enough time to make good on promises by launch. EQ Next will probably be the same.
They will launch and promise to add the sandbox content later... But a real sandbox game needs to be sandbox at its core, from the ground up.
I think people are taking his comment of "a sandbox type game" as literal when i think he means it will have sandbox type features as well as themepark, it will be a hybrid. He has said in the pass that it will take some things from Vanguard and classic EQ with updated features as well.
In two years time it will be ArcheAge that is EQNext main competition, when it comes to EQ Smed and SOE don't mess about. EQ is their first MMO child and even today it has a large team and expansions every couple of years.
Comments
That'd be a dream wouldn't it?
Really not a big fan of heavily instanced mmo's at all.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
And who made these rules? you are head of some kind of authority here which makes the rules about what is a good MMO or not? or i am missing some 'facts' here? a published rule book of some kind?
Last time I remember reading about game being 'reworked' because the team was 'unhappy' with the current build was in UWO. I hope EQNext doesn't end up with the same fate
I'm not a huge PvE guy, but I'd love to play the next EQ.
Sennheiser
Assist
Thage
Which does not matter in any way since GW2:
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
I don't understand the GWs hype. It's so linear...
I hope new games don't start molding after GW2 now.
I think we are talking the sandbox-theme park hybrid here. You go from ride to ride in the game, but there are non-linear elements in the game play that give the feeling of a completely open world when in fact it is not. Then simply bolt in a full pay to win cash shop along with a free-to-play option for game play and we are talking EQ Next.
I think SOE must have realised that the inital effort wasn't great and have scrapped EQ Next version one for version two. That's all well and good, and SOE have a lot of MMO experience now, but everyone who is a gamer just knows that SOE are struggling here. Can they pull it off, I guess we see next year.
If they learned from SWG (which was amazing at release imo) it WILL have pvp elements. If they have sandbox style gathering, crafting, building placement, guild "cities" and such, having open world land control mechanics similar to SWG would be a natural fit.... Makes me wish I was reading about SWG Next. lol
Maybe, if we are fortunate, they are taking cues from Citadel of Sorcery.
I can tell you how many games promised something new and better and were only let downs.
WoW and every clone are good examples of the worst games ever made.
how? the secret world is just as much a themepark as wow is one, it even has end gaming raiding .
They created swg the ultimate sandbox mmo except it was ahead of it's time. They are well aware of what a sandbox is.
I couldn't even get into TSW it was beyond boring... From the hour or so I played I could easily tell it was WoW clone with guns.
You....have not even touched that game, have you?
TSW is neither themepark nor sandbox, but does have slight elements of both.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
The only sandbox game that Funcom ever made was AO. TSW is also not "radically different", and SoE pretty much told everyone the EQnext was going to be a sandbox years ago.
If there's one thing that SoE understands and does very well, it's that as a publisher of online games you have to differentiate the games you make and publish from the other games you make and publish.
EQ2 is actually not that much like EQ, and they've been saying for years that EQnext would not be like EQ2.
This is where MMO's are going to go, not because another company did it, but because every other studio is already doing the same thing and it's not been working. If anything it would be more appropriate to say that western developers have finally started paying attention to the LARGEST MMO MARKET IN THE WORLD, and where that market is headed. Korea and China have a number of sandbox MMO's in the works. Western developers have been so fixated on trying to achieve the same level of success that Blizzard did with WoW that they've pretty much been stifling creativety and innovation in favor of trying to "improve" upon systems that have been done to death.
Hybrids aren't the answer either, it's an oxymoron. Either you make a sandbox or you make a themepark, or you make a game that has two different, seperated, modes of play. GW2 is still a themepark, Archage will be a sandbox; not a hybrid.
There are also many more MMOFPS's being developed that are starting to catch on more within the genre, and they tend to lend themselves better to a more sandbox oriented gameplay experience.
Some developers are paying attention (SoE, and I'm betting Blizzard as well) while others see it and just dismiss it as too hard (Zenimax online).
A good sandbox should be one of the best selling MMO's ever, because a good sandbox will have all the content that people like in themeparks; without the developer imposed restrictions and grind to produce content to keep with the pace of the players.
Besided, dynamic content is becoming more and more the norm for themepark content delivery, and the more dynamic developers are able to make the content the less themepark the game gets. Eventually MMO's will shift to the dynamc virtual worlds that many people expected them to become years ago.
I have actually and it is very much a themepark it's not even close to a sandbox. It has end game instanced raidng for christ sake, nothing says themepark more than raiding.
/sigh
How many years ago were those and how many of those developers/designers are on EQNext?
It isn't the company that makes the product, it's the people. If none of those people are around anymore, how are you certain it will be a good product?
MMOs aren't like dish soap, customer loyalty runs thin. Just look at FFXI and FFXIV.. same company, totally different results.
I'll watch and wait before getting excited.
Hell I am going to be trippin' for a very long time knowing I am the most excited over a SOE and EQ project than anything else. You think a major mmo developer finally actually "gets it"?
/mind_be_trippin'
You stay sassy!
Most mmo players are spoil on the luxury and ease of theme park mmo, and choosing the path of least resistance you think a "pure sandbox" will ever be mass market without some dumbing down so theme park lovers can get there fix also..
Remember SOE has Sony investors to answer to that alone should make you remain skeptical because at the end of the day these guys want numbers at the start and few months over..
Basically ... screw themepark players.
Also I think that you underestimate players. The vast majority of mainstream mmo players now come from non-rpg, non oldschool games or even new to pc gaming entirely. If a product is good they will learn and play it. They entered the genre through solid games with solid gameplay not because they were simply themeparks. Too many people have seen existing sandbox games as extremely complext and difficult to learn due to their lack of user-friendly systems and tutorials. There is no reason why SOE can't make a sandbox game easy to learn.
Most players flat out do not even know how fun a good sandbox can be and make many assumptions not based on personal experience. If a game is good, people will play it. It is that simple. SOE is better off anyway with attracting a lower number of players who stick around longer than today's pattern of massive upfront sales and massive post-release abandonment.
You stay sassy!
SOE has always had some good ideas for new games... Planetside and SWG come to mind especially. Where they underperform is in completing their games and releasing quality expansions/updates. A few great updates in Planetside and SWG, but both ended in disaster (core combat and NGE). Planetside 2 is another example of this thus far, good concepts but they are pushing a november release date and they simply don't have enough time to make good on promises by launch. EQ Next will probably be the same.
They will launch and promise to add the sandbox content later... But a real sandbox game needs to be sandbox at its core, from the ground up.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
I think people are taking his comment of "a sandbox type game" as literal when i think he means it will have sandbox type features as well as themepark, it will be a hybrid. He has said in the pass that it will take some things from Vanguard and classic EQ with updated features as well.
In two years time it will be ArcheAge that is EQNext main competition, when it comes to EQ Smed and SOE don't mess about. EQ is their first MMO child and even today it has a large team and expansions every couple of years.