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Smedley: "EverQuest Next will be the world's largest sandbox-style MMO ever made"
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Was all my opinion based on my own observations. Someone asked a question, and that's what I think about it.
I'm open to others opinions and I often change my mind when presented with opposing facts.
If my post came off as anything but my opinion, I apologize. But should I apologize? You found it amusing. And all I really want is to make you smile......
you are aware POP released in 2002 -- 2 years before WOW?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_The_Planes_of_Power
EQ had 2 more expansions preWOW, GoD and OOW
i dont recall EQ being influenced by Blizzard until WOW released -- SOE was too focused on EQ2
Blizzard did not recruit Tigole and his friends until 2002
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Kaplan_%28game_designer%29
EQ2 fan sites
not sure how you come to the conclusion about SOE being 'successful' .. over half a decade since that was true, and as part of SONY, which btw, is now into its 5th straight year of turning a loss.. funding might just be an issue, a pretty big one tbh, which may well drive them to release games ahead of time in the hope that they can make some money and 'patch it on the fly' so to speak.. maybe its time the SOE decision making team started taking councilling from gamblers anonymous... just saying
Sandboxe more expensive than Themepark:
It really depends on different assumtions, and how much quality of production you will have.
SWTOR was/is the most expensive MMORPG ever created, and that was because of the full voice acting and hundreds of cutscenes. IT is a lot of work, and withit very expensive. To create content this way, the created content beomes extremely expensive.. so in assumption you dont have this in a sandbox, a sandbox would be actually not that expensive.
But on the other side, if you go for a very high quality production in a sandbox, you have to do some Voice acting anyways. A sandbox is not perse without any kind of content or story within a world. UO was never an empty world. You got a whole lot of NPCs and story within the game world. Just not the linear approach of it. With other words, a high quality production would also include a lot of voice acting and stuff. Not so much as in a themepark, but more then enough.
The point were a sandbox is more expensive, and especially more difficult is the technology. You have to do more or less all engines by yourself. There are not sandbox engine toolsets, like it is with themeparks at the moment.
Another problem is, that you cant foresee a lot of situations and developments within your environment(the game world), and you have to think ahead a lot of different things, and a lot of problems will arise out of that. This is risky and expensive with it.
IF you assume a sandbox have to be full persistent(non instanced), have to be seamless(no visible zones) is another point for cutting edge technology in your net code and graphic engine. They have to be highly scaleable and adabtable, and you have to do a lot of tricks to overcome some technology limits. This will require expensive technology research. Because, you can not just do it(as with most themepark engines), you have to do it, test it, redo it, and test it again, with a lot of testers, to do it right. This will be expensive.
Then you have to create a lot of other tools, to enable players to create content. None of them are required in a themepark. If you want to do it right, you have to do a lot of high quality production tutorials, with storypath and voice acting, to introduce the more casual player into those sandbox tools. ( And this one wasnt done before.. but in all honestly we got only two AAA Sandboxes anyways.. UO and SWG and both are from another time)
So.. with other words. The production, especially if you want to do a high quality production of a Sandbox, it will be initially more expensive then a themepark. Overtime it becomes most probably less expensive, because you dont need to rush out as many content as with a themepark, and the longevity is much higher(better longterm revenue).
But on the other side a lot of risk with the initial investion, because you cant predict as well how many player you will attract. As already said, the last AAA sandbox was SWG 10 years ago.
Reuse of old technology(SWG):
It is in most cases just not possible. The technology changes very fast. All this code is more or less ancient, and it would be most probably more expensive to upgrade that old code, than to rewrite it from scratch.
Advantage of experience with SWG:
But you could reuse the experience from a former sandbox like SWG. But the question is, how many SWG developer are still there. How many are actually working nowadays for SOE? Not a lot i guess. And experience wears out over time anyways.. so i dont know how much value they really have in this department.
Finally:
We will see what SOE will be able to deliver. Will it be a real sandbox? Will it be a real high value production? However it will turns out, it is a good sign for me, that more and more developer are going the sandbox route. And now even some major company join that path. Maybe we will finally see the genre moving forward instead of backwards in term of gameplay features.
By amusig i didn't mean to say that i am laughign at you or soemthing. it is just that you guys put too much effort into it and take the whole sandbox and themepark terms toos eriously. I bet that people who coined thse terms wouldn't have a precise definition for these terms considering how ever changing and evolving whole MMO scene is.
WoW was nothing like EQ, did you play EQ?
WoW is completely based on quest progression, EQ is completely based on grind progression.
Everquest had almost no quests, WoW is chock full of quests.
WOW allows you to solo on every class, EQ allows you to only solo on very few select classes.
WoW is completely on rails, EQ opens up a whole world with many choices the minute you leave your starting city.
WoW guides you to every zone, EQ didn't tell you where to go whatsoever.
WoW doesn't used static camps like EQ does.
People who claim EQ is like WoW never played EQ1, you can stop pretending.
Did WoW take some elements of EQ? Sure, is WoW comparable to EQ in terms of gameplay? No, not at all.
Vanguard is the only game I know that cames somewhat close to EQ but it's still miles from what EQ is like, WoW is a different game altogether.
And since when do you need to be able to destroy things for a game to qualify as a sandbox.
I don't care if you want to say EQ is a sandbox or a themepark, but stop comparing EQ and WoW like they are similar games, they were and are completely different games, anyone who says they are clones has never played EQ.
Oops sorry. It's early.
In my head 'the past' is like a sandbox, and I should remember that before I act like it is a linear themepark.
My gaming blog
On top of that, some zones you could not even get to unless you hitched a ride with a Wizard or Druid. Not until POP did travelling from one zone to another really open up.
Yeah i could not figure where he got that assumption, i don't think he even played EQ.
Responsible for the transformation, but not the decision to do so.
LucasArts I believe most people blame for the directive.
I actually loved Everquest and Everquest 2 and I am not a SWG grudge holder so I have no problems with SOE. I am really looking forward to Everquest next.
Everquest the original never lived up to its name it hardly had any quest so if EQnext carries on that tradition it would be fine.
Yes he did but it's old news and water under the bridge, did you play SWG or are you just going on what you have heard.
The order was given and Smed acted.
And as much as SWG was an open MMO it was not a complete sandbox MMO.
Steam: Neph
Can't argue with that but it's going to be hard not to get over excited especially us EQ vets, EQ2 didn't do it for many of us.
Perhaps this time round Smed and co will bring us back home.
Karnor's Castle "train" woot!
SWG pre cu was about as sandboxy as its possible to be. the things they broke by trying to make it a themepark are, too numerous to list, but introducing levels, introducing 'professions' are just a couple of the main ones. and it may be in the past, but its far from 'under the bridge' maybe in another 10 years, people will have forgotten how epic fail SOE were over SWG.. but don't hold your breath..
there was a minor backlash and Furor (Alex Afrasiabi) whos now the Lead world designer for WOW
had an epic POP rant back when he was a EQ raid leader (its an amusing read at link)
http://forums.evercrest.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=43271
the real backlash came w the next expansion, Gates of Discord (early 2004)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_Gates_of_Discord
people disliked GoD and GU Comics called for a boycott of the next expansion, Omens of War
players and guilds were leaving the game and SOE had to start player summits, flying in guild leaders (at their expense) to discuss how to recover
EQ2 fan sites
That's like saying put baking soda and vinegar together, but let's not let it foam
You have to understand there's nothing we can do about it. It's like a chemical reaction.
Everquest + Sanbox = hype
I'm not saying you are wrong - I'm just saying the home-made volcano is already rumbling.
Sorry mate but it was not as sandboxy as can be, very open ended but not a full sanbox MMO.
I take it as a very positive thing that Smed can at least see that there is a huge need for sandbox games. Also, they have a very flexible and broad IP. I think it is something that they can if fact do. However, SOE is also the king of broken F2P. They have perfected the art of pay to win with their fabled and legendary lock outs. So I also have no doubt that they will screw this all up. EQ Next will likely be a spectacular failure. A huge amount of promise, sent right down the drain.
I think sandbox games are better suited to being subscription based simply because so much of their progression is based on building and longer time frames. But SOE has made it painfully clear that they see the future, all of the future, as free to play. I don't think these two things will end up coming together well. But perhaps they will come up with some all new idea in free to play monitization.
All die, so die well.
Do you be a pirate?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Yes it was a complete sandbox mmo.
I'm all for it... as long as they don't release an awesome product and then turn around and totally ruin it to make it exactly like the next best thing on the market. <cough> EQ2 and SWG.
A SWG / EQ2 hybrid would be just fine by me.
They will say it wasn't a real sandbox like always. whatever that means.