You know, Asheron's Call put out monthly content (EVERY SINGLE MONTH) for 10 straight years. If anyone ever comes close to that, then I will be impressed. As to Trion, they are great for what we've seen in the last 5 years for content, I think TSW has the chance to top them for content patching though
Originally posted by cyandk How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?
Or they are just copying eveyone else. The game is very boring and just a blatant carbon copy of other games.
Originally posted by cyandk How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?
Or they are just copying eveyone else. The game is very boring and just a blatant carbon copy of other games.
and what game do you play thats so unique? even gw2 has major similiarities.
only games not like others is eve and darkfall.. am i wrong?
Originally posted by cyandk How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?
Or they are just copying eveyone else. The game is very boring and just a blatant carbon copy of other games.
You would want to elaborate on that? because what you said made no sense. Blatant carbon copy....please explain. GW2 fans upto their usual antics.
There is a huge expansion coming in Rift and you will see how fast they will patch every problem coming up with the launch.Its not only the content they give us, its the response time to every problem as well.
Trion is a great company and thats the reason you see people in forums saying that they pay sub even if they dont play much, just to support Trion.
You know, Asheron's Call put out monthly content (EVERY SINGLE MONTH) for 10 straight years.
If a game has AC graphics...not very impressive in 2012/2011 though.
and your point is?
the fact that AC is a 13 yr old game and still having regular patches, has nothing to do with its graphics, the game was made started in 1996.
Trion is great and all, but they dont do anything that hasnt already been done, and much more frequently, by a game that started over 13 yrs ago. Back then your monthly service paid for a monthly patch
You know, Asheron's Call put out monthly content (EVERY SINGLE MONTH) for 10 straight years.
If a game has AC graphics...not very impressive in 2012/2011 though.
and your point is?
the fact that AC is a 13 yr old game and still having regular patches, has nothing to do with its graphics, the game was made started in 1996.
Trion is great and all, but they dont do anything that hasnt already been done, and much more frequently, by a game that started over 13 yrs ago. Back then your monthly service paid for a monthly patch
Don't mind him, obviously never played it otherwise he'd understand the level of quality we were used to in terms of regular and sufficient content releases.
It's the brain-dead masses that play Warcraft and let the standard drops to an all-time low that ALLOWED this slow content released to be deemed "acceptable" in the eyes of greedy companies like Blizzard. If people cannot realize that one minor content update every 6+ months for a company making MILLIONS+ every month is beyond unacceptable for a subscription based game then it is just beyond my comprehension.
1. They abviously put a larger % of income toward live team development. A very smart model if trying to ensure player retention with a game model requiring expansions to expand end-game.
2. They do not develop much with original thought. The content they pump out is either based on a model they already perfected (small updates of themed Rift-tech invasions) or an expansion filled with ideas from tech already well tested in other mmos.
The entire Rift game is a cloned concept. It is a 100% pure and simple themepark game with layered mechanic over top which is just their version of public quests. It is a game build over someone elses engine making content development easier for Trion. Their expansion is a collection of ideas they think are successes in Themepark design and their direction will always be from what other developers have already come to know with what works and what doesn't.
Smart business model? Sure I imagine you couldn't argue otherwise ... unless the player base decides originality is more important when other games finally come out with original ideas and become popular. As of now, Trion is simply trying to address the number 1 pitfall to Themepark design: Lack of consumable end-game content. Games relying on Wow end-game type content tyically become stale as it is consumed prior to expansions. The answer is to pump out content fast! This is obviously even proving to be harder than they though seeing how they are also throwing in other forms end-game models (ie. 3 way pvp which is nothing more than yet another end-game for other themepark pvp mmos).
As you can see, Trion is doing nothing more than to try to solve the dilemma of themepark end-game content by pumping out content fast and by copying proven ideas in order to save time and money. I guess the question is now whether this impresses you or sickens you. I imagine you can tell by my tone where I stand on this issue .
Well I don't think Rift is just a copy of most good things from other MMOs. The lore is certainly original, most don't like it.. but it's original. Instant adventures are something I've never seen done before. Invasions groups were original at the time (GW2 events are a copy). Sure, the Rifts are like PQs in WAR but the invasions and footholds arn't. The automatic zone events and 'tiered' world events are also something I havn't seen before. Now, Dimensions... housing has been done, yes. EQ2 allowed you to put items whereever you want as well.. but they have made it better by giving you more space and more varied environments, environments you can control (like weather, sky, lighting, etc.). Finally, the soul system. Skill trees we've seen before but having full control over which skill trees you want to use from a reasonably large selection? Original to Rift.
Rift is the only game that really innovated imo; taken something that exists and improved it in some way. They have done it with most things in the game.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Well I don't think Rift is just a copy of most good things from other MMOs. The lore is certainly original, most don't like it.. but it's original. Instant adventures are something I've never seen done before. Invasions groups were original at the time (GW2 events are a copy). Sure, the Rifts are like PQs in WAR but the invasions and footholds arn't. The automatic zone events and 'tiered' world events are also something I havn't seen before. Now, Dimensions... housing has been done, yes. EQ2 allowed you to put items whereever you want as well.. but they have made it better by giving you more space and more varied environments, environments you can control (like weather, sky, lighting, etc.). Finally, the soul system. Skill trees we've seen before but having full control over which skill trees you want to use from a reasonably large selection? Original to Rift.
Rift is the only game that really innovated imo; taken something that exists and improved it in some way. They have done it with most things in the game.
Well lore has absolutely nothing to do with gameplay. Rift could be about puppies and watermelons and the gameplay could be the same.
I find the soul system nothing more than exactly what other games have but only done slightly different. They are talent trees and nothing more. They just put in the actual skills in the trees instead of getting them through levels. It actually has the exact same problems as convention talent trees by ending up with builds that work better than others and everyone simply uses them.
Nobody has ever said they do nothing more than exactly copy systems. They look at other systems and change it for the better. This may have ounces of original thought but is not original ideas. There is a big difference between the two. Trion's core and fundamental design is to save money and time by not creating original ground up systems. Again, I only point this out as fact and players can either think it a good model they support or otherwise.
Well I don't think Rift is just a copy of most good things from other MMOs. The lore is certainly original, most don't like it.. but it's original. Instant adventures are something I've never seen done before. Invasions groups were original at the time (GW2 events are a copy). Sure, the Rifts are like PQs in WAR but the invasions and footholds arn't. The automatic zone events and 'tiered' world events are also something I havn't seen before. Now, Dimensions... housing has been done, yes. EQ2 allowed you to put items whereever you want as well.. but they have made it better by giving you more space and more varied environments, environments you can control (like weather, sky, lighting, etc.). Finally, the soul system. Skill trees we've seen before but having full control over which skill trees you want to use from a reasonably large selection? Original to Rift.
Rift is the only game that really innovated imo; taken something that exists and improved it in some way. They have done it with most things in the game.
Well lore has absolutely nothing to do with gameplay. Rift could be about puppies and watermelons and the gameplay could be the same.
I find the soul system nothing more than exactly what other games have but only done slightly different. They are talent trees and nothing more. They just put in the actual skills in the trees instead of getting them through levels. It actually has the exact same problems as convention talent trees by ending up with builds that work better than others and everyone simply uses them.
Nobody has ever said they do nothing more than exactly copy systems. They look at other systems and change it for the better. This may have ounces of original thought but is not original ideas. There is a big difference between the two. Trion's core and fundamental design is to save money and time by not creating original ground up systems. Again, I only point this out as fact and players can either think it a good model they support or otherwise.
If you think lore or setting in any game doesnt effect gameplay.. as in, the way you choose to play it and way you feel when playing it then you've lost a bit of the magic that makes gaming good in the first place. It also affects game design decisions which can lead to, for example, completely different mechanics in many situations. Classes being a good example in an MMO. A prime Rift example is the whole rifts thing.. that's a lore decision that translates over into the gameplay (or the other way around, result is the same); Rifts open and close dynamically, often based on the player's gameplay decisions.
Also, the statement in yellow isn't a fact. Maybe an educated or observational guess/opinion.. but it's not fact.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
lol, one might think that but most of the MMO's out right no are some what generic, just look at GW2 for example, very generic asian grinder look to it, but will they be able to turn out the land content quickly, time will only tell.
Cannot speak for GW2 but no major MMO title has as generic world as Rift has. Not even remotely close.
Vast, empty, open, detail lacking landscapes. It is like playing a game from 10 years ago.
I guess that is why you can hear sometimes the game being described as soulless.
I do not want to belittle the effort Trion does. The amount of content they release is very impressive, content released though is not so much.
Wish I could have played a game like this 10 years ago.
2. They do not develop much with original thought. The content they pump out is either based on a model they already perfected (small updates of themed Rift-tech invasions) or an expansion filled with ideas from tech already well tested in other mmos.
Think your thinking of WoW there.
Granted we can admit they did take ideas they found from other games (face it, its a good practice, WoW is created solely after this taking from EQ1 with virutally all features taken from other gmae) they have added quite a bit of original stuff into the game (as far as I know). The concept of Instant adventure was a new concept that took emphasis in the game, and they have added other little components that weren't used much in MMos, the defense points/turrets taking some inspiration from Tower Defense of sorts not done in other MMos (that I've seen). Much of their other content was expanded upon greatly from other games, such as the Zone Event (Improving upon the Warhammer idea that wasn't really fleshed out to well). Leader board itself was a concept never really handled in MMos that much and was expanded greatly in Rift to make it stand out being different.
They have A LOT of original thought when it comes to the game, though we can admit a good deal comes from expanding on older concepts or retuning them to fit the game in their own brand. If we are going for complete originality, your not going to find a single game that exists out there that has that. Everything has already been done, we can only hope to change it up or expand upon it more to make it new and exciting.
lol, one might think that but most of the MMO's out right no are some what generic, just look at GW2 for example, very generic asian grinder look to it, but will they be able to turn out the land content quickly, time will only tell.
Cannot speak for GW2 but no major MMO title has as generic world as Rift has. Not even remotely close.
Vast, empty, open, detail lacking landscapes. It is like playing a game from 10 years ago.
I guess that is why you can hear sometimes the game being described as soulless.
I do not want to belittle the effort Trion does. The amount of content they release is very impressive, content released though is not so much.
lol,
Have you ever heard of "World of Warcraft" art and style stolen from Warhammer and it copyed EQ for the most part.
Maybe you know of a little MMO named "EverQuest", stolden from Dungons & Dragons art and style.
thats just 2, almost all MMOs copy others in one form or another, thats not a bad thing.
Now on your 10 years ago look.......LOL, you must be really young to not have any idea what MMOs looked like then...LOL.
To help you out, heres the back of a box from a MMO of 10 years ago (or so):
the fact that AC is a 13 yr old game and still having regular patches, has nothing to do with its graphics
If you believe this
takes as much time to make as this...
actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time. Its the fact that devs dont use funding for content patching. That was the selling point of Asheron's Call, why you paid monthly, you got not only unlimited play time (in an ERA where there were still pay by the hour games) but you got monthly patches, every month.
The dev team for AC was also microscopic compared to the dev teams of modern days, and they still cant patch.
I dont understand what you are arguing with though
Content patches have nothing to do with Graphics, most patches in most games, are simply made by turning on a model and placing it in the environment
actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time.
Erm, no.
Problem is, "turning on a model and placing it in the environment" is not as simple as you think it is...
The company with an engine that allows more detail will take a lot longer to produce the content because of the amount of effort it takes to get the detail into the character models or the armor models or the environment. With older engines people could just slap a nice looking texture on a bunch of polygons and be good, with newer engines it takes a hell of a lot longer or at least a bigger development team working solely on that to pump it out as quick.
actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time.
Erm, no.
Problem is, "turning on a model and placing it in the environment" is not as simple as you think it is...
The company with an engine that allows more detail will take a lot longer to produce the content because of the amount of effort it takes to get the detail into the character models or the armor models or the environment. With older engines people could just slap a nice looking texture on a bunch of polygons and be good, with newer engines it takes a hell of a lot longer or at least a bigger development team working solely on that to pump it out as quick.
Exactly, and older engines typically won't be as complexly coded, meaning in some cases they might have to worry about people jumping places they aren't suppose to go and due to limitations might not have to worry about adding custom 'abilities' or the likes for special event items, making events simpler due to engine limitations in place. There are a lot less variables to consider in those older games. Models are an area where more time is required but on a coding level its still also a concern and can become quickly a lot more work the more variation they add to the game to change it up.
Again, not saying they aren't doing a good job pumping out new contest fast, its just they do take a lot less work then what newer games will likely take to put content in at that constant pace at a good quality.
Originally posted by ScalplessIMO it's less about Trion being very fast and more about everyone else being very slow.
I remember in Beta that Trion said that they focused heavily on making the servers as stable as possible, so that once the beta would start, they could focus on actually tweaking/fixing the game rather than fixing the servers. It seems obvious at first, but when Rift is one of the few MMOs as of late to actually have a stable release (and beta), then I'd be inclined to agree with you that it's not about Trion being very fast, but about everyone else being very slow. Trion got their priorities right.
The beta was hardly stable, They were fixing bugs right up to the last minute. (like it should be)
He said SERVERS! Trion had arguably the best server structure ive ever seen. I crashed ONCE the whole beta and launch week. And i maybe D/Ced 4 times in alpha.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time.
Erm, no.
Problem is, "turning on a model and placing it in the environment" is not as simple as you think it is...
The company with an engine that allows more detail will take a lot longer to produce the content because of the amount of effort it takes to get the detail into the character models or the armor models or the environment. With older engines people could just slap a nice looking texture on a bunch of polygons and be good, with newer engines it takes a hell of a lot longer or at least a bigger development team working solely on that to pump it out as quick.
absolutely a model with 10k wires takres way longer to design that one that is based on 1000 wires.
Comments
You know, Asheron's Call put out monthly content (EVERY SINGLE MONTH) for 10 straight years. If anyone ever comes close to that, then I will be impressed. As to Trion, they are great for what we've seen in the last 5 years for content, I think TSW has the chance to top them for content patching though
Or they are just copying eveyone else. The game is very boring and just a blatant carbon copy of other games.
and what game do you play thats so unique? even gw2 has major similiarities.
only games not like others is eve and darkfall.. am i wrong?
You would want to elaborate on that? because what you said made no sense. Blatant carbon copy....please explain. GW2 fans upto their usual antics.
There is a huge expansion coming in Rift and you will see how fast they will patch every problem coming up with the launch.Its not only the content they give us, its the response time to every problem as well.
Trion is a great company and thats the reason you see people in forums saying that they pay sub even if they dont play much, just to support Trion.
He that lives upon Hope dies farting.
If a game has AC graphics...not very impressive in 2012/2011 though.
and your point is?
the fact that AC is a 13 yr old game and still having regular patches, has nothing to do with its graphics, the game was made started in 1996.
Trion is great and all, but they dont do anything that hasnt already been done, and much more frequently, by a game that started over 13 yrs ago. Back then your monthly service paid for a monthly patch
Don't mind him, obviously never played it otherwise he'd understand the level of quality we were used to in terms of regular and sufficient content releases.
It's the brain-dead masses that play Warcraft and let the standard drops to an all-time low that ALLOWED this slow content released to be deemed "acceptable" in the eyes of greedy companies like Blizzard. If people cannot realize that one minor content update every 6+ months for a company making MILLIONS+ every month is beyond unacceptable for a subscription based game then it is just beyond my comprehension.
I have to agree with others that:
1. They abviously put a larger % of income toward live team development. A very smart model if trying to ensure player retention with a game model requiring expansions to expand end-game.
2. They do not develop much with original thought. The content they pump out is either based on a model they already perfected (small updates of themed Rift-tech invasions) or an expansion filled with ideas from tech already well tested in other mmos.
The entire Rift game is a cloned concept. It is a 100% pure and simple themepark game with layered mechanic over top which is just their version of public quests. It is a game build over someone elses engine making content development easier for Trion. Their expansion is a collection of ideas they think are successes in Themepark design and their direction will always be from what other developers have already come to know with what works and what doesn't.
Smart business model? Sure I imagine you couldn't argue otherwise ... unless the player base decides originality is more important when other games finally come out with original ideas and become popular. As of now, Trion is simply trying to address the number 1 pitfall to Themepark design: Lack of consumable end-game content. Games relying on Wow end-game type content tyically become stale as it is consumed prior to expansions. The answer is to pump out content fast! This is obviously even proving to be harder than they though seeing how they are also throwing in other forms end-game models (ie. 3 way pvp which is nothing more than yet another end-game for other themepark pvp mmos).
As you can see, Trion is doing nothing more than to try to solve the dilemma of themepark end-game content by pumping out content fast and by copying proven ideas in order to save time and money. I guess the question is now whether this impresses you or sickens you. I imagine you can tell by my tone where I stand on this issue
.
You stay sassy!
Well I don't think Rift is just a copy of most good things from other MMOs. The lore is certainly original, most don't like it.. but it's original. Instant adventures are something I've never seen done before. Invasions groups were original at the time (GW2 events are a copy). Sure, the Rifts are like PQs in WAR but the invasions and footholds arn't. The automatic zone events and 'tiered' world events are also something I havn't seen before. Now, Dimensions... housing has been done, yes. EQ2 allowed you to put items whereever you want as well.. but they have made it better by giving you more space and more varied environments, environments you can control (like weather, sky, lighting, etc.). Finally, the soul system. Skill trees we've seen before but having full control over which skill trees you want to use from a reasonably large selection? Original to Rift.
Rift is the only game that really innovated imo; taken something that exists and improved it in some way. They have done it with most things in the game.
Well lore has absolutely nothing to do with gameplay. Rift could be about puppies and watermelons and the gameplay could be the same.
I find the soul system nothing more than exactly what other games have but only done slightly different. They are talent trees and nothing more. They just put in the actual skills in the trees instead of getting them through levels. It actually has the exact same problems as convention talent trees by ending up with builds that work better than others and everyone simply uses them.
Nobody has ever said they do nothing more than exactly copy systems. They look at other systems and change it for the better. This may have ounces of original thought but is not original ideas. There is a big difference between the two. Trion's core and fundamental design is to save money and time by not creating original ground up systems. Again, I only point this out as fact and players can either think it a good model they support or otherwise.
You stay sassy!
If you think lore or setting in any game doesnt effect gameplay.. as in, the way you choose to play it and way you feel when playing it then you've lost a bit of the magic that makes gaming good in the first place. It also affects game design decisions which can lead to, for example, completely different mechanics in many situations. Classes being a good example in an MMO. A prime Rift example is the whole rifts thing.. that's a lore decision that translates over into the gameplay (or the other way around, result is the same); Rifts open and close dynamically, often based on the player's gameplay decisions.
Also, the statement in yellow isn't a fact. Maybe an educated or observational guess/opinion.. but it's not fact.
Wish I could have played a game like this 10 years ago.
Think your thinking of WoW there.
Granted we can admit they did take ideas they found from other games (face it, its a good practice, WoW is created solely after this taking from EQ1 with virutally all features taken from other gmae) they have added quite a bit of original stuff into the game (as far as I know). The concept of Instant adventure was a new concept that took emphasis in the game, and they have added other little components that weren't used much in MMos, the defense points/turrets taking some inspiration from Tower Defense of sorts not done in other MMos (that I've seen). Much of their other content was expanded upon greatly from other games, such as the Zone Event (Improving upon the Warhammer idea that wasn't really fleshed out to well). Leader board itself was a concept never really handled in MMos that much and was expanded greatly in Rift to make it stand out being different.
They have A LOT of original thought when it comes to the game, though we can admit a good deal comes from expanding on older concepts or retuning them to fit the game in their own brand. If we are going for complete originality, your not going to find a single game that exists out there that has that. Everything has already been done, we can only hope to change it up or expand upon it more to make it new and exciting.
If you believe this
takes as much time to make as this...
lol,
Have you ever heard of "World of Warcraft" art and style stolen from Warhammer and it copyed EQ for the most part.
Maybe you know of a little MMO named "EverQuest", stolden from Dungons & Dragons art and style.
thats just 2, almost all MMOs copy others in one form or another, thats not a bad thing.
Now on your 10 years ago look.......LOL, you must be really young to not have any idea what MMOs looked like then...LOL.
To help you out, heres the back of a box from a MMO of 10 years ago (or so):
O, to be sooooo young again.
actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time. Its the fact that devs dont use funding for content patching. That was the selling point of Asheron's Call, why you paid monthly, you got not only unlimited play time (in an ERA where there were still pay by the hour games) but you got monthly patches, every month.
The dev team for AC was also microscopic compared to the dev teams of modern days, and they still cant patch.
I dont understand what you are arguing with though
Content patches have nothing to do with Graphics, most patches in most games, are simply made by turning on a model and placing it in the environment
Erm, no.
Problem is, "turning on a model and placing it in the environment" is not as simple as you think it is...
The company with an engine that allows more detail will take a lot longer to produce the content because of the amount of effort it takes to get the detail into the character models or the armor models or the environment. With older engines people could just slap a nice looking texture on a bunch of polygons and be good, with newer engines it takes a hell of a lot longer or at least a bigger development team working solely on that to pump it out as quick.
Exactly, and older engines typically won't be as complexly coded, meaning in some cases they might have to worry about people jumping places they aren't suppose to go and due to limitations might not have to worry about adding custom 'abilities' or the likes for special event items, making events simpler due to engine limitations in place. There are a lot less variables to consider in those older games. Models are an area where more time is required but on a coding level its still also a concern and can become quickly a lot more work the more variation they add to the game to change it up.
Again, not saying they aren't doing a good job pumping out new contest fast, its just they do take a lot less work then what newer games will likely take to put content in at that constant pace at a good quality.
from my use with Hero Engine, I beg to differ.
Dev teams, have artists, that do nothing but models, environment builders, and content writers, along with many other people.
for someone who does nothing but this for a living it shouldnt be all that hard to do
He said SERVERS! Trion had arguably the best server structure ive ever seen. I crashed ONCE the whole beta and launch week. And i maybe D/Ced 4 times in alpha.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
absolutely a model with 10k wires takres way longer to design that one that is based on 1000 wires.