Full on sandbox IS the way to go. Hell i've been advocating for no skills at all, just interaction in the world; classless, and open to whatever you "learn" to do.
Stats would be based purely on what type of gear you were wearing and how you chose to interact: sword, magic, etc.
Everyone else is just staring to realize what i've known all along.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that sand box fans will never be satisfied because they don't really know what they want.
^This
You ask 10 sandbox 'purists' what a sandbox game is and you'll get 10 different answers. Just ask them to comple a list of 'rules' that make a sandbox games. It would be pretty diverse and contradictory.
Well you guys arent misleading at all.
sandbox usually means you pick 100% your own direction on how to play. not a list of 10 things you can do to progress through the game
not.. "it must have full loot pvp" " or " player made content" or anything else.. just FREEDOM!
Everyone else is just staring to realize what i've known all along.
There you go op; an "I told you so", just like you predicted. Win!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I've been saying for awhile that the first AAA fantasy sandbox will rule until competition emerges which could be the better of 5 years after their success. You look at eve and there are constantly 25k players on and let's face it space simulation is a lot less popular than your average high fantasy. Eve would probably have more players if you didn't start off so far behind the veterans tbh. I predict a new age fantasy sandbox with a strong IP and proper funding/development time could probably hold a million plus subs for 5ish years. That's probably low balling it. A lot of people don't even know what it's like to play in one so they have no idea what they are missing out on and right now the market is perfect to introduce players to new concepts with all these hit and run games dropping. People like me sorely want a home, a game where your actions make you the hero, the villian, or a commoner. One with an equal sense of danger and awe, risk and reward. They always have really, they just haven't known it until now after all these meh titles. But in my opinion it's gotta be a subscription to keep everyone on the same playing field. Cash shops are out of control. I'd pay a bigger sub price at this point for a great game if it kept its integrity intact. But to me the beauty of the sandbox is the freedom of doing what you want with the tools you are given. If you want to build a castle you grab the pail or maybe you grab the shovel and hope to unearth something shiny beneath the sand. It's up to you just watch out for poop. But for the love of god let there be same side pvp with a justice system because people need to be accountable for their actions. I'm so sick of smack and drama that could easily be settled at the point of a sword.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that sand box fans will never be satisfied because they don't really know what they want.
We know exactly what we want.
We just never agree with each other.
I think its both:
They don't know what they want nor do they agree with each other.
Customer is hardly ever right.
You're probably correct, We "think" we know what we want (but rarely do)
I'm guilty of this myself, back when I 1st played DAOC in 2002 I used to think to myself, boy, I sure wish it was easier to solo in the game, that crafting wasn't so important, and that travel times weren't so onerous.
I should have been more careful of what I wished for........ sigh......
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
... Look at all the games that have been succesfully and popular later on. All of them had sandbox elements. ...
Eh? Pretty much the opposite is true. The most popular (and succesful by sales) recent games (SWTOR, GW2) had no sandbox elements at all. There's no doubt that the popular mass market prefers theme parks.
That the industry is making some noise about sandboxes and emergent gameplay lately has not to do with sales or popularity: it has to do with the fact that the theme parks bring little more money than the initial sales, they're a flash in the pan - and some people in the industry have figured out that you can earn more money by having fewer poeple buy the game when the people play the game for longer.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
You're probably correct, We "think" we know what we want (but rarely do)
Well, no. I think you suffer the same disease that themepark players have.
What you want is a game you already played (x) years ago. X is gone, of course, but you keep looking for a game that's just like it. Not TOO just like it, mind you, but you'll complain about anything that's different. But you'll complain if it's all the same, too. Catch-22 springs to mind.
Developers are still looking for ways to make sense of all of this.
Gamers may (one day) stop asking for magic wands to cure everything. But I doubt it.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You know that's not how things work. They will come in and flood the forums asking themepark features, and PVE servers, and all th eother BS that no sandbox player has EVER asked for from a themepark.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
You know that's not how things work. They will come in and flood the forums asking themepark features, and PVE servers, and all th eother BS that no sandbox player has EVER asked for from a themepark.
Don't forget equipment-based progression (just the memory that stands out in my mind from the Last Round).
But yes, players tend to re-request previous systems they enjoyed.
Go figure.
You'd never do a thing like that, of course.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that sand box fans will never be satisfied because they don't really know what they want.
Right, because themepark fans have done such a stellar job of demonstrating what they want over the last 5-6 years.
How many games have come out to cheers of "this is what we wanted!!" only to be bashed upon release for "not being what we wanted!".
Funnier still, how can you possibly make that argument that sandbox fans don't really know what they want, when there hasn't been a serious attempt at a proper AAA sandbox MMO since Ultima Online, (Edit: and Eve and pre-NGE SWG - thanks Icewhite , for anyone to even compare against?
I'll tell you one thing, there's a much brighter future in MMORPGs going the sandbox route than there is in themepark. Themeparks are built around "content" that is pre-conceived, pre-scripted, with the entire experience mapped out ahead of time by the developers/designers. Players have proven time and again that they can churn through content in a matter of weeks that took the creators months to produce.
Sandbox type games are built around systems and emergent gameplay; activities and goals that players are continuously working toward, competing for and finding new and creative ways to utilize. In sandbox games, players truly are a major part of the content. It's a different way of thinking, and players will have to get over this concept of "hand-holding" and "being told what to do next" to really "get it". But when it works, it works beautifully. In a proper MMORPG, there is no such thing as "end game", only more things to do at a higher difficulty or risk level.
The problem isn't "people knowing what they want", the problem - and it's not even a "problem" really - is that everyone has their own idea of "what they want". Everyone has their own concept of what "the perfect MMO" is, whether it's themepark, sandbox, or something else entirely.
The best a MMO developer can do is create a game that is as much of a sandbox as they want to make, incorporating the concepts they feel will make it the best possible experience they can for their intended audience, and let players fall where they may. Listen to the feedback, separate the signal from the noise and consider the feedback that's actually constructive and conducive to improving the game for everyone in their intended playerbase, while ignoring the noise coming from those who only request things to improve the game for themselves.
No developer is ever going to satisfy everyone. With all Blizzard's success with WoW there are still millions of players for whom WoW "gets it all wrong".
there hasn't been a serious attempt at a proper AAA sandbox MMO since Ultima Online for anyone to even compare against?
Er, you slept through EVE and SWG then? Oh, right, 'proper' attempt. You had a specific vision they did not conform to.
Weren't you just encouraging us not to do that?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
there hasn't been a serious attempt at a proper AAA sandbox MMO since Ultima Online for anyone to even compare against?
Er, you slept through EVE and SWG then? Oh, right, 'proper' attempt. You had a specific vision they did not conform to.
Weren't you just encouraging us not to do that?
Ack, good point. Forgot about Eve and pre-NGE SWG when I was typing that. Good catch. I've edited my post to include those. Thanks
I would certainly call them proper sandboxes, event though Eve never really appealed to me and I didn't get to experience much of pre-NGE SWG before SOE changed it all.
You know that's not how things work. They will come in and flood the forums asking themepark features, and PVE servers, and all th eother BS that no sandbox player has EVER asked for from a themepark.
Don't forget equipment-based progression (just the memory that stands out in my mind from the Last Round).
But yes, players tend to re-request previous systems they enjoyed.
Go figure.
You'd never do a thing like that, of course.
EvE has equipment based progression, however the equipment is made by the players and you can lose it.
posting gamers ARE a fucking minority. thx for the talk
The people that post on the site are a "sampling" of MMO players, just like when Gallup goes out to interview people about their views of the upcoming election.
The importance about the posters is that they have a relatively varied and even spread of tastes, play styles, etc. Then the posting data can be studied to view trends about MMO players as a whole.
EvE has equipment based progression, however the equipment is made by the players and you can lose it.
Starting to sound like you (all of you) should get together and compare/contrast specific features of various games to put together a Smed request. This may be your last chance to Make Your Voice Heard!
Not that he's obligated to listen to a word you say, of course.
You have primarily three basic lists of features, UO vs SWG vs EVE, with a few scattered 'death penalty' derailments added in.
(DayZ bound to make an appearance too, I suppose. Freshman Congressmen...heh.)
(Oh, an we have to accept EQ and EQ2 players, of course. Do we let PS2 and DCUO players have a vote? Smed's technically theirs, too...)
Should only take, oh, four or five years or so to hammer out a specific list of suggestions, and note all of the objections to it from various delegates.
Good luck!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by RefMinor I hope those that want themeparks stay there so they don't dilute any sandbox that is made with their whining, I play sandboxes and I am positive they won't become the mainstream, I just want some to be made and be reasonably successful.
You know that's not how things work. They will come in and flood the forums asking themepark features, and PVE servers, and all th eother BS that no sandbox player has EVER asked for from a themepark.
Yeah, unfortunately, there's a segment of MMO players who, for some reason, can't stand the idea that some game being developed out there isn't being designed specifically with them in mind, even when they have no real interest in playing it and there's no guarantee they'd enjoy it enough to stick around if they did.
Look at Darkfall: Unholy Wars. Darkfall has been, from day one of its conception so many years ago now, a game featuring FFA open world PvP with full looting. Aventurine has never claimed it to be anything but that and has, in fact, promoted it as being that. It's a game designed very much around the idea of player conflict, politics and competition.
Regardless, go to this thread (which has since been locked, no surprise there), and look at how people are arguing - relentlessly - for a PvE server to be implemented. It's explained, in various ways and with numerous reasons (many being very reasonable and logical) why it shouldn't happen, and in all likelihood won't. Yet, people are still insisting it should happen. I think after a point it's more just people arguing for their preferred playstyle overall, and the game itself becomes secondary.
Now, for a developer whose primary interest is "let's make money", tryign to do that would probably seem like a great idea - get as many warm bodies as possible. For a developer who, like Aventurine, is more about "let's make the kind of game we'd like to play", it's more about making the best kind of game they want as possible. Personally, I think the latter is the best way to go. It's how you get the more "pure" gameplay styles represented in MMOs. If a developer is satisfied with having maybe a couple servers that have healthy and active players enjoying the game they've made, and they're able to continue supporting and developing the game in that way, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But still, people will look for the opportunity to be offended by the idea that someone out there isn't making the game "they want".
1) I dont want tiered raid equipment gathering. Raid powered gear progression has all but ruined the worlds we should of had 10 years ago. Phat l33t has seen its day. Its time for more of a community based approach. Raids do serve a purpose and they are ok to have in the game. Just make sure the rewards are community or guild based and not individual greed based.
2) I dont want rails. Weve played these games for too long and railplay just isnt going to keep us interested any longer. I want some freedom and im willing to suffer openworld pvp to have it. I do expect you to design it not to be a gankfest.
3) I dont want more tired leveling systems. 14 years of the same thing over and over and over. Enough. There are much better ways to do that. If you dont want us pressured to "level" dont put it in the game. just let us aquire our skills for whatever class we have. I dont care if i have to use them for a long time to make them good, or if i have to find things to improve them or make friends with npc factions to get them to teach me. I just want it to be in the world and defined by the world, and not some tacked on "meter" that guages exactly where i am at all times. Dont start something and then cry when it maxes out. We are ravenous. Plan for that.
4) I dont want a shallow simplistic game. We dont need giant exclamation points anymore. The training wheels have to come off. It doesnt make the game better. It just makes it faster. I want to be able to go where i want, but not at the begining! i want to earn it.
5) I dont want the devs to do all the work for me. If i want to be able to teleport somewhere i should get enough people together to build a teleporter from there and to there. I want it possible, not handed to me for free or minimal effort. I dont mind if i have to do a raid to get the main component that allows the community to create a teleportation gate. Just make sure that the raid to get the component isnt the only thing you need. Make sure you need stone masons, builders, blacksmiths, mages and a garrison and guards to go around it.
6) i dont want to manage my toon from space. I want to see through the eyes of my avatar. I want to be able to see everything in full detail. I am willing to give up a little perhirial vision for more detail. I want to see players talking and i dont want to type anything, i want to talk myself. I want to see a monster up close so i will know when to move or dodge or block. I do not want to look at my own ass for the entirity of the game. Yes its less efficient. I dont care. I want things to sneak up and scare the shit out of me.
7) i dont want a static environment that is always the same. Why shouldnt i run into a band of travelling orks out in the wilderness at random? i want to expect the unexpected. If im crying and whining on this board that i got ganked by a mob that wasnt supposed to be there. Thats a good sign.
Look at the things that made everquest great. The factions, day and night, fluff spells, hard quests, trains, interdependance. Levelling and raiding is not what made everquest great. As someone above said, falling into the hole in befallen and hearing the bones in the dark is what made it great. I giant or a gryphon sneaking up on me and ganking me made it great. Taking the time to do things and get places made it great.
Here's a horrid thought. What if sandbox MMOs become mainstream?
What will the developer / publishers do to maximize their profits as they modify the design for mass-appeal?
My guess, they'll destroy them. Streamlined, ultra-easy and fast rewarding with little effort. Is that the sandbox of the future?
you don't design a game to make money. That's a big problem I see in today's market is games designed by suits. EEssentially you need to design a game with gamers in mind and if the gamers accept your vision, they will flock to it.
And now everyone will start saying "Oh, its obvious that Sandbox was always the way to go".
Yeah, even those who said nobody wanted sandbox style games.
"You old school gamers are a thing of the past."
"Sandbox games are dead"
"Sandbox games didnt worked"
Look at all the games that have been succesfully and popular later on. All of them had sandbox elements.
And the games announced without sandbox elements have been stoned just after releasing the first art style drawings.
"Oh, you guys are a vocal minority."
Now, everyone will come out boasting they knew what people wanted all along!
Took how many years for the developers and community to catch up?
These games released in the last 5-10 years were not even MMORPGs in the first place! They just hijacked the labeling to monetize their online games, the essence was never there.
What do you care? If the era of sandboxes is here again you should be happy!
I'm not convinced sandbox is the way to go. Player driven games are only that, player driven games. A minority with tons of time on their hands will decide what happens in the world. That's no more fun than devs deciding what's going on in the world, unless the devs are clueless of course.
When EQNext becomes more popular than WoW, I might review my opinion, but I'm not holding my breath.
You know that's not how things work. They will come in and flood the forums asking themepark features, and PVE servers, and all th eother BS that no sandbox player has EVER asked for from a themepark.
Don't forget equipment-based progression (just the memory that stands out in my mind from the Last Round).
But yes, players tend to re-request previous systems they enjoyed.
Go figure.
You'd never do a thing like that, of course.
I know my place. I go to the games that cater to my playstyle. I would never go to Hello Kitty Online and demand FFA PVP. I just don't understand why every sandbox game is expected to cater to lazy/slow/casual players.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Comments
Full on sandbox IS the way to go. Hell i've been advocating for no skills at all, just interaction in the world; classless, and open to whatever you "learn" to do.
Stats would be based purely on what type of gear you were wearing and how you chose to interact: sword, magic, etc.
Everyone else is just staring to realize what i've known all along.
Well you guys arent misleading at all.
sandbox usually means you pick 100% your own direction on how to play. not a list of 10 things you can do to progress through the game
not.. "it must have full loot pvp" " or " player made content" or anything else.. just FREEDOM!
There you go op; an "I told you so", just like you predicted. Win!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.
Also I highly doubt this EQ next is a sandbox thing. That would alienate the core EQ audience, hardcore progression pveers.
We know exactly what we want.
We just never agree with each other.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think its both:
They don't know what they want nor do they agree with each other.
Customer is hardly ever right.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
You're probably correct, We "think" we know what we want (but rarely do)
I'm guilty of this myself, back when I 1st played DAOC in 2002 I used to think to myself, boy, I sure wish it was easier to solo in the game, that crafting wasn't so important, and that travel times weren't so onerous.
I should have been more careful of what I wished for........ sigh......
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Eh? Pretty much the opposite is true. The most popular (and succesful by sales) recent games (SWTOR, GW2) had no sandbox elements at all. There's no doubt that the popular mass market prefers theme parks.
That the industry is making some noise about sandboxes and emergent gameplay lately has not to do with sales or popularity: it has to do with the fact that the theme parks bring little more money than the initial sales, they're a flash in the pan - and some people in the industry have figured out that you can earn more money by having fewer poeple buy the game when the people play the game for longer.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Well, no. I think you suffer the same disease that themepark players have.
What you want is a game you already played (x) years ago. X is gone, of course, but you keep looking for a game that's just like it. Not TOO just like it, mind you, but you'll complain about anything that's different. But you'll complain if it's all the same, too. Catch-22 springs to mind.
Developers are still looking for ways to make sense of all of this.
Gamers may (one day) stop asking for magic wands to cure everything. But I doubt it.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You know that's not how things work. They will come in and flood the forums asking themepark features, and PVE servers, and all th eother BS that no sandbox player has EVER asked for from a themepark.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Don't forget equipment-based progression (just the memory that stands out in my mind from the Last Round).
But yes, players tend to re-request previous systems they enjoyed.
Go figure.
You'd never do a thing like that, of course.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Right, because themepark fans have done such a stellar job of demonstrating what they want over the last 5-6 years.
How many games have come out to cheers of "this is what we wanted!!" only to be bashed upon release for "not being what we wanted!".
Funnier still, how can you possibly make that argument that sandbox fans don't really know what they want, when there hasn't been a serious attempt at a proper AAA sandbox MMO since Ultima Online, (Edit: and Eve and pre-NGE SWG - thanks Icewhite
, for anyone to even compare against?
I'll tell you one thing, there's a much brighter future in MMORPGs going the sandbox route than there is in themepark. Themeparks are built around "content" that is pre-conceived, pre-scripted, with the entire experience mapped out ahead of time by the developers/designers. Players have proven time and again that they can churn through content in a matter of weeks that took the creators months to produce.
Sandbox type games are built around systems and emergent gameplay; activities and goals that players are continuously working toward, competing for and finding new and creative ways to utilize. In sandbox games, players truly are a major part of the content. It's a different way of thinking, and players will have to get over this concept of "hand-holding" and "being told what to do next" to really "get it". But when it works, it works beautifully. In a proper MMORPG, there is no such thing as "end game", only more things to do at a higher difficulty or risk level.
The problem isn't "people knowing what they want", the problem - and it's not even a "problem" really - is that everyone has their own idea of "what they want". Everyone has their own concept of what "the perfect MMO" is, whether it's themepark, sandbox, or something else entirely.
The best a MMO developer can do is create a game that is as much of a sandbox as they want to make, incorporating the concepts they feel will make it the best possible experience they can for their intended audience, and let players fall where they may. Listen to the feedback, separate the signal from the noise and consider the feedback that's actually constructive and conducive to improving the game for everyone in their intended playerbase, while ignoring the noise coming from those who only request things to improve the game for themselves.
No developer is ever going to satisfy everyone. With all Blizzard's success with WoW there are still millions of players for whom WoW "gets it all wrong".
Er, you slept through EVE and SWG then? Oh, right, 'proper' attempt. You had a specific vision they did not conform to.
Weren't you just encouraging us not to do that?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Ack, good point. Forgot about Eve and pre-NGE SWG when I was typing that. Good catch. I've edited my post to include those. Thanks
I would certainly call them proper sandboxes, event though Eve never really appealed to me and I didn't get to experience much of pre-NGE SWG before SOE changed it all.
EvE has equipment based progression, however the equipment is made by the players and you can lose it.
The people that post on the site are a "sampling" of MMO players, just like when Gallup goes out to interview people about their views of the upcoming election.
The importance about the posters is that they have a relatively varied and even spread of tastes, play styles, etc. Then the posting data can be studied to view trends about MMO players as a whole.
Starting to sound like you (all of you) should get together and compare/contrast specific features of various games to put together a Smed request. This may be your last chance to Make Your Voice Heard!
Not that he's obligated to listen to a word you say, of course.
You have primarily three basic lists of features, UO vs SWG vs EVE, with a few scattered 'death penalty' derailments added in.
(DayZ bound to make an appearance too, I suppose. Freshman Congressmen...heh.)
(Oh, an we have to accept EQ and EQ2 players, of course. Do we let PS2 and DCUO players have a vote? Smed's technically theirs, too...)
Should only take, oh, four or five years or so to hammer out a specific list of suggestions, and note all of the objections to it from various delegates.
Good luck!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yeah, unfortunately, there's a segment of MMO players who, for some reason, can't stand the idea that some game being developed out there isn't being designed specifically with them in mind, even when they have no real interest in playing it and there's no guarantee they'd enjoy it enough to stick around if they did.
Look at Darkfall: Unholy Wars. Darkfall has been, from day one of its conception so many years ago now, a game featuring FFA open world PvP with full looting. Aventurine has never claimed it to be anything but that and has, in fact, promoted it as being that. It's a game designed very much around the idea of player conflict, politics and competition.
Regardless, go to this thread (which has since been locked, no surprise there), and look at how people are arguing - relentlessly - for a PvE server to be implemented. It's explained, in various ways and with numerous reasons (many being very reasonable and logical) why it shouldn't happen, and in all likelihood won't. Yet, people are still insisting it should happen. I think after a point it's more just people arguing for their preferred playstyle overall, and the game itself becomes secondary.
Now, for a developer whose primary interest is "let's make money", tryign to do that would probably seem like a great idea - get as many warm bodies as possible. For a developer who, like Aventurine, is more about "let's make the kind of game we'd like to play", it's more about making the best kind of game they want as possible. Personally, I think the latter is the best way to go. It's how you get the more "pure" gameplay styles represented in MMOs. If a developer is satisfied with having maybe a couple servers that have healthy and active players enjoying the game they've made, and they're able to continue supporting and developing the game in that way, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But still, people will look for the opportunity to be offended by the idea that someone out there isn't making the game "they want".
clearly though, I know what I dont want.
1) I dont want tiered raid equipment gathering. Raid powered gear progression has all but ruined the worlds we should of had 10 years ago. Phat l33t has seen its day. Its time for more of a community based approach. Raids do serve a purpose and they are ok to have in the game. Just make sure the rewards are community or guild based and not individual greed based.
2) I dont want rails. Weve played these games for too long and railplay just isnt going to keep us interested any longer. I want some freedom and im willing to suffer openworld pvp to have it. I do expect you to design it not to be a gankfest.
3) I dont want more tired leveling systems. 14 years of the same thing over and over and over. Enough. There are much better ways to do that. If you dont want us pressured to "level" dont put it in the game. just let us aquire our skills for whatever class we have. I dont care if i have to use them for a long time to make them good, or if i have to find things to improve them or make friends with npc factions to get them to teach me. I just want it to be in the world and defined by the world, and not some tacked on "meter" that guages exactly where i am at all times. Dont start something and then cry when it maxes out. We are ravenous. Plan for that.
4) I dont want a shallow simplistic game. We dont need giant exclamation points anymore. The training wheels have to come off. It doesnt make the game better. It just makes it faster. I want to be able to go where i want, but not at the begining! i want to earn it.
5) I dont want the devs to do all the work for me. If i want to be able to teleport somewhere i should get enough people together to build a teleporter from there and to there. I want it possible, not handed to me for free or minimal effort. I dont mind if i have to do a raid to get the main component that allows the community to create a teleportation gate. Just make sure that the raid to get the component isnt the only thing you need. Make sure you need stone masons, builders, blacksmiths, mages and a garrison and guards to go around it.
6) i dont want to manage my toon from space. I want to see through the eyes of my avatar. I want to be able to see everything in full detail. I am willing to give up a little perhirial vision for more detail. I want to see players talking and i dont want to type anything, i want to talk myself. I want to see a monster up close so i will know when to move or dodge or block. I do not want to look at my own ass for the entirity of the game. Yes its less efficient. I dont care. I want things to sneak up and scare the shit out of me.
7) i dont want a static environment that is always the same. Why shouldnt i run into a band of travelling orks out in the wilderness at random? i want to expect the unexpected. If im crying and whining on this board that i got ganked by a mob that wasnt supposed to be there. Thats a good sign.
Look at the things that made everquest great. The factions, day and night, fluff spells, hard quests, trains, interdependance. Levelling and raiding is not what made everquest great. As someone above said, falling into the hole in befallen and hearing the bones in the dark is what made it great. I giant or a gryphon sneaking up on me and ganking me made it great. Taking the time to do things and get places made it great.
you don't design a game to make money. That's a big problem I see in today's market is games designed by suits. EEssentially you need to design a game with gamers in mind and if the gamers accept your vision, they will flock to it.
What do you care? If the era of sandboxes is here again you should be happy!
I'm not convinced sandbox is the way to go. Player driven games are only that, player driven games. A minority with tons of time on their hands will decide what happens in the world. That's no more fun than devs deciding what's going on in the world, unless the devs are clueless of course.
When EQNext becomes more popular than WoW, I might review my opinion, but I'm not holding my breath.
I know my place. I go to the games that cater to my playstyle. I would never go to Hello Kitty Online and demand FFA PVP. I just don't understand why every sandbox game is expected to cater to lazy/slow/casual players.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"