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Every Mmo since WoW has been a failure.
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Just another spin but the fact that WOW has managed to loose 10 million subs since 2007 might make you want to look at the conditions for success you have set out
Rarely do i feel the need to log in and post something these days. No matter how much I troll around here. But come on, given your definition of "sucess" NO western based game has been a sucess up to and past WoW with it's largest subs STILL coming from the east.
By your definition tho, games like Aion, C9, Runescape, Maple Story, Silk Road, Last Chaos, RF Online, Lineage 2 are all raging sucesses. Games that would be argued on these forums to be "Grinds" or "Flops" or many other names we have all had for them.
It was expressed by game developers over the years a "Sucessful" game is one that provides decent box sales and can stay at 150k+ subs. That said, most of the games still in existance are "sucessful" as they have made the companies money. No matter what the companies have said about the games over the last 7 years, sadly they have ALL made the companies money. The "failure" has lied in there ability to hold subscribers due to rushed games with lack of content and little back end additions.
Either way, you can project your opnion of what a "sucess" happens to be, but much like everything else it is one persons opnion not the view of the industry as a whole. If they shared your view, our genre would already be dead.
So everything before WoW failed too?
Cool story bro.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
This thread is a complete failure.
Arbitrary condition for the thread's success = 100 posts in 24 hours.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
You cant speak for the game studios, only they can say if it's a success or not. Being succesfull depends on what your goals are. WoW could have 100+ million subs and it still would have no impact on if some other game is a success or not.
You are correct and it is sad.it is truly only because the genre is a very costly one to create a game for.
All the developers have cut a ton of corners and have literally no depth in their design.It has been the same design over and over,nothing but a simple questing system designed to aid the speed leveling.
it doesn't matter if it is book burns,Leves,Dailies,Linear quests,all the exact same idea.GW2 and it's triggered quests aka events are no different.
This is called ALMOST zero creativity,just VERY slight twists with the same goal.After you take away that ONE simple aspect ,what is left?PVP?That does not make a MMORPG
it is not a lack of tech or tools either,it is simply a lack of budget,devs are afraid to invest a lot,so they deliver cheap cost effective games.
We have the WII so we know interactive is possible.We have destructive surfaces a LONG time ago in Red Faction so we know that is EASILY doable.We have the PHYSX software designed to actually AID the GPU,make gaming faster and yet NOBODY is doing any of it.FFXI gave us a ton of creative ideas and even included language translators so that mutli language gamers can play together,again none of these newer devs care at all abotu the over all quality of their games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
He's not correct, but it is true the genre is costly to create a game for.
And it's always easy to do, if you aren't having to do it. And a reasonable gamble of a lot of money, if it isn't your money.
The real secret of commercial success is knowing enough to budget properly for the money you will likely get back. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing games that are new, or are riffs on older ideas. That's how it works in writing, music, movies, etc. Mysteries, Summer blockbusters, pop albums, all mine the same territory, again and again. Occasionally someone does something that blazes new ground. Innovation is fine, but innovation that bankrupts you is a failure.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
most successful western MMO based on sustained subs (2 year period): WoW 4-5 mill
EQ 400k+
EvE 350k+
SWG 300k
DAoC/UO/LOTRO/EQ2 200-250k
CoX 150k
Rift and SWTOR will probably be in that next to last last group when its all said and done
Not sure where FFXI falls, Im guessing probably around CoX.
I doubt either AION or L2 sustained more than 50k (again, in the west)
Everything more or less accurate with 2 exceptions.
Ultima Online 200-250 k for 3 years
FFXI - peaked at 550k k with almost 500k for few years but it was GLOBAL figures. West + Japan + some smaller asian markets like Taiwan, Korea, Hongkong, etc not just west.
I have Ultima Online in there. And I have no clue how to break down FFXIs 500k. It was moderately popular in the west, so I could see 100-150kish but I jst don't know.
So, all those MMOs before WoW are failures too?
'S why so many will go to their graves still insisting on cloning somethng from pre-2000.
(that's good)
instead of cloning something from 2004 or later.
(that's bad)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
So Alganon is a success?
To me, a game is a failure if it never turns a profit or barely breaks even.
And at the same time, arbitrary sub argument is discarded instantly for Lineage and Aion (foreign subs) but does count for WoW (foreign subs)....?
Round and round we go...always choosing the argument that suits our agendas best, whimsically.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
My next question to OP is, How does 1M post 2k4 get to be the magic number?
Dont know how much Anarchy online had sub in his peak but im sure it will be int his list. The game still running and its not empty.
Huh, how odd.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Lol yeah we can continue like that for a long time, alganon probably dont make money so no i dont consider a succes. By the way you said it yourself if a game dont bring money its not a succes so why are you asking me if alganon is a succes? Dont bother answer the last question i think i got my idea.
Now just know that this is my last reply to you.
Oh look, another thread where WoW haters pat each other´s back and dream of a parallel universe where WoW´s only redeeming qualities are it´s advertisement campaigns.
How cute.
I do agree on that the OP´s statement was wrong though.
Ok then, please tell me a game in post-wow MMOs that didn't lose over 75% of their population within the first few months.
Rift? 2 million to 300k
SWTOR? 2 million to 400k
AoC? 500k to 100k
WAR? 1 million to 100k
FF14? lolnotevengonnatalkaboutthisshitfest
Aion? 3.5m to 500k
Post-WoW MMOs have virtually no retention of their playerbase.
again you're wrong and Darkfall isnt growing at all...They are able to maintain the game and hire more people because of the fact that they released a sub based MMO with like 10 people. They made a huge profit even if the game wasn't successfull, that's why they were able to do this. The game is viable. Also, just because a compagny is able to hire more people it doesn't mean that the population of the game is growing, it also doesn't mean they will make more money because they hired new staff. DFUW isnt a sequel at all since the orginal one will be shutdown. It's just a remake.
And again you're still wrong about the time they took to make the game, just look at the wiki page and it says i was started in 2001 with 5 people, get your facts straight before before correcting people with false informations.
Rift topped out at 650k, not 2 million.
Aion was above 2 million worldwide for 3 years
And LOTRO actually managed some growth for a while, people forget that it was over 200k subs when it went freemium
So from your point of view, every AAA MMO since the last 7 years has shrunken dramatically immediately after launch and yet you're saying the complete opposite about DF?? Good contradiction mate.