Originally posted by Quirhid I die a little inside when I see how the miss-use of the word "twitch" has caught on so. Even in FPS games the use of the twitch reflex is quite rare - majority of situations are still a matter of hand-eye coordination, knowledge and tactics.
My own preference is to have more action-oriented combat, but only because it is still quite rare and variety is good. I don't mind the regular tab-targetting as long as its spiced-up a bit. Gimmicks don't count.
I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:
projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
body blocking - no walking through anyone friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee
Again, just because I think it would create a drastically different metagame and playstyle.
I agree with all those bullet points. Friendly fire alone would add much more strategy to pvp.
... and oh so much whining. I would still like to see it though.
Imagine the first time there is a traitor in a group and he turns in the middle of a fight. The forums will light up like the fourth of July.
Especially if you combine FF with harsh death penalty.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
What do I vote for if I like tactical team combat in a FPS, long term and short term strategy in turn based strategy games, and just enough RPG like choices to make gameplay different while being utterly sick and tired of the standard themepark combat?
If it's done right all these styles of combat can be fun. Even turn based fights can work well when the fights get close. FF7 against the ruby weapon was my favourite turn based fight and I still remember it.
Well, there's a definitive poll...think you may have spit options a tad too finely, op.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I agree with all those bullet points. Friendly fire alone would add much more strategy to pvp.
... and oh so much whining. I would still like to see it though.
Imagine the first time there is a traitor in a group and he turns in the middle of a fight. The forums will light up like the fourth of July.
Look no further...
There is no friendly fire protection in VO outside capitol systems, and although there have been some interesting RP threads sparked by various scenarios, surprisingly none of them seem to complain about traitors:
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I die a little inside when I see how the miss-use of the word "twitch" has caught on so. Even in FPS games the use of the twitch reflex is quite rare - majority of situations are still a matter of hand-eye coordination, knowledge and tactics.
My own preference is to have more action-oriented combat, but only because it is still quite rare and variety is good. I don't mind the regular tab-targetting as long as its spiced-up a bit. Gimmicks don't count.
I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:
projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
body blocking - no walking through anyone
friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee
Again, just because I think it would create a drastically different metagame and playstyle.
i agree with your points but i would also add that they have a knockdown mechanism in place so friendly fire might knock you down and out of combat, but you would have to do something extra to "finish a friend", which you could toggle off so you didnt accedentially kill everyone.
I never got all the terms. I just like to have a challenge killing things. If its too easy or takes too long I get bored. I dont like seven rows of abilities (ala EQ2) but prefer less numbers of hotbars where I can pick/choose my abilities for the given fight. I dont like standing in one spot but dont like the full on movement of GW2. I cant focus on my strategy the way I want to. I like an auto attack but can do without. Allods didnt have an auto attack and that was fun.
EQ combat has a nice balance where the fights dont take too long but arent super short. And success is depending on how you manage your resources.
But combat options are nothing if the world is not enticing to explore and I have other things to do than just fight. Housing. crafting. etc.
Always been a big fan of turn-based games, thus my vote went for that one. But when game is more action based Mount & Blade gives a great example for what is fun. There might be a fight that lasts for minutes, but it can all end with a single hit. This is what I would love in a MMO.
You come against 3 opponents that are way below your level (if there's levels at all) and you fight for your survival, get yourself surrounded and you won't survive. That's pretty much what I want from combat, if at top level you can face 20 new players and wipe the floor with them, it's just not entertaining.
It's sad turn based combat has fallen out of favor in RPG's. Strategic turn based RPG's are a definite favorite of mine.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:
projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
body blocking - no walking through anyone
friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee
Again, just because I think it would create a drastically different metagame and playstyle.
Asheron's Call Darktide Server or Red/PKLite on any of the regular servers.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Quirhid I die a little inside when I see how the miss-use of the word "twitch" has caught on so. Even in FPS games the use of the twitch reflex is quite rare - majority of situations are still a matter of hand-eye coordination, knowledge and tactics.
My own preference is to have more action-oriented combat, but only because it is still quite rare and variety is good. I don't mind the regular tab-targetting as long as its spiced-up a bit. Gimmicks don't count.
I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:
projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
body blocking - no walking through anyone friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee
Again, just because I think it would create a drastically different metagame and playstyle.
I agree with all those bullet points. Friendly fire alone would add much more strategy to pvp.
... and oh so much whining. I would still like to see it though.
Imagine the first time there is a traitor in a group and he turns in the middle of a fight. The forums will light up like the fourth of July.
I can safely say from my experience in EVE Online, that not only is that not necessarily true, but if the players understand that is a legitimate part of gameplay, it can lead to some pretty wild results.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I can safely say from my experience in EVE Online, that not only is that not necessarily true, but if the players understand that is a legitimate part of gameplay, it can lead to some pretty wild results.
There's really no AOE effects in Eve to the same effect as fantasy MMORPGs have with fireballs and other skills. Nor does Eve have projectile blocking.
Standing issues or poor target calling is the #1 cause of FF in Eve.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I can safely say from my experience in EVE Online, that not only is that not necessarily true, but if the players understand that is a legitimate part of gameplay, it can lead to some pretty wild results.
There's really no AOE effects in Eve to the same effect as fantasy MMORPGs have with fireballs and other skills. Nor does Eve have projectile blocking.
Standing issues or poor target calling is the #1 cause of FF in Eve.
"Imagine the first time there is a traitor in a group and he turns in the middle of a fight. The forums will light up like the fourth of July." <-- Adding what I was replying to back to the thread since you removed it in your reply.
What does EVE not having fireballs have to do with a traitor firing on his own team?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I said positionals, but it's a hard question because there are a lot of variables.
Great AI makes pve a lot better for me. That's why I liked the pve in Darkfall. Also, I don't like tab targeting and I like dodging, rolling, blocking, and LoS.
If a fight lasts long, that's fine as long as there is a reasonable reward. For example, I could smash through 6 mobs in the time it takes me to kill one baddy, then I should get a similar reward.
Also, we need to think about pace in the sense that an mmorpg is not really like an ARPG like Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. In those games, I expect to smash through a lot more mobs quickly. I supposed an mmorpg could be that way, but usually they don't ask you to fight at that pace.
"Imagine the first time there is a traitor in a group and he turns in the middle of a fight. The forums will light up like the fourth of July." <-- Adding what I was replying to back to the thread since you removed it in your reply.
What does EVE not having fireballs have to do with a traitor firing on his own team?
Friendly fire through AOE effects such as fireballs change the metagame (e.g don't shoot into melee) - traitors do not. I brought up friendly fire specifically for that effect.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I like action combat (TERA was pretty fun), but my hands get really weak pretty quickly because of lingering issues from bilateral carpal about 10 years ago. As such, tab-targetting has its moments of appeal also.
I think the best answer for me is a 'switch' between the two. Obviously, the skill/action-oriented one should yield better results, but the less intensive combat should be playable to an acceptable degree also. IOW...you wll only -excel- with the action-based, but you can farm/play/etc with simple combat if you prefer.
I agree with one poster early on.. This poll is a little flawed.. Too many variables and some overlap, but anyways.. I prefer combat to be similar to that of EQ1 when it comes to duration of fights.. They should be mini drama's where multiple avenues of winning are available..
Such as:
I should be able to KITE my mob if I'm unable to fight toe to toe.
I should be able to go toe to toe if I"m a heavy armor class, that might take 40 seconds and longer to fight.
I would love for groups to have options to tank and spank AOE's mob's or pull singles using forms of CC..
I want RECOVERY time to be brought back where stamina or mana pool matters.. I do not believe in instant FULL recovery seconds after the fight is over.. Recovery does not need to be as long as EQ had it, but I do like the regeneration of stamina and mana to mean something.. Eating a mage biscuit after a fight = full recovery is BULLSH*T.. In my opinion..
In conclusion.. I wish to have fights that last a minute and longer, slower recovery and definately bring back the fear of ADD's, like EQ did.. OH.. One more thing.. "lose the clear agro if you run away 20 feet".... I really really really find NO fun in fighting a mob when I can run away 20 yeards and RESET the mob's agro.. I love how EQ did it.. Sure you can run away and if you get enough distance between you and the mob, the mob will walk back to it's path area.. BUT it never forgets unless you zoned out or had it's memory erased.. EQ was genius in class skills, compared to today's "Holy Trinity" 5 second combat..
I voted for separating enemies. It's a challenge especially in games like GW2, and the Trinity really comes into play here, such as WoW's combat. In GW2 though, even though you can hurt mulitple enemies grouped together, it's not always in your best interest to get them that close to one another. It takes some strategy (mostly in dungeons I imagine).
I know, not many players didn't whine about it, but forcing players to give up valuable hotbar realestate to choose and use a specific cc breaker was a mental part of the game that's gone missing of late.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I know, not many players didn't whine about it, but forcing players to give up valuable hotbar realestate to choose and use a specific cc breaker was a mental part of the game that's gone missing of late.
Seperating foes should be part of the strategy I must use to win - 19.4%
Which includes mezzing, hezing, lull-ing, agro-droppnig, stuning and fearing... and even off-tanking.
I know, not many players didn't whine about it, but forcing players to give up valuable hotbar realestate to choose and use a specific cc breaker was a mental part of the game that's gone missing of late.
theres no room left for strategic combat here! What are you thinking?
instead you get an aggro power that allows you to tank the whole universe.
im just kiddin..i agree.. and i think TESO has this.
Comments
Especially if you combine FF with harsh death penalty.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Look no further...
There is no friendly fire protection in VO outside capitol systems, and although there have been some interesting RP threads sparked by various scenarios, surprisingly none of them seem to complain about traitors:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/14/25686
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/14/26364
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/14/26228
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
i agree with your points but i would also add that they have a knockdown mechanism in place so friendly fire might knock you down and out of combat, but you would have to do something extra to "finish a friend", which you could toggle off so you didnt accedentially kill everyone.
I never got all the terms. I just like to have a challenge killing things. If its too easy or takes too long I get bored. I dont like seven rows of abilities (ala EQ2) but prefer less numbers of hotbars where I can pick/choose my abilities for the given fight. I dont like standing in one spot but dont like the full on movement of GW2. I cant focus on my strategy the way I want to. I like an auto attack but can do without. Allods didnt have an auto attack and that was fun.
EQ combat has a nice balance where the fights dont take too long but arent super short. And success is depending on how you manage your resources.
But combat options are nothing if the world is not enticing to explore and I have other things to do than just fight. Housing. crafting. etc.
Always been a big fan of turn-based games, thus my vote went for that one. But when game is more action based Mount & Blade gives a great example for what is fun. There might be a fight that lasts for minutes, but it can all end with a single hit. This is what I would love in a MMO.
You come against 3 opponents that are way below your level (if there's levels at all) and you fight for your survival, get yourself surrounded and you won't survive. That's pretty much what I want from combat, if at top level you can face 20 new players and wipe the floor with them, it's just not entertaining.
Not tonight dear...I have a haddock!
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Asheron's Call Darktide Server or Red/PKLite on any of the regular servers.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I can safely say from my experience in EVE Online, that not only is that not necessarily true, but if the players understand that is a legitimate part of gameplay, it can lead to some pretty wild results.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I feel like that is a key component missing from this thread.
I honestly don't care whether I'm fighting 1, or 100 mobs at a time. As long as it's not monotonous, it's challenging, and it's fun.
I've found elements of combat that I like in a lot of MMOs, but it always boils down to those same 3 points.
There's really no AOE effects in Eve to the same effect as fantasy MMORPGs have with fireballs and other skills. Nor does Eve have projectile blocking.
Standing issues or poor target calling is the #1 cause of FF in Eve.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
"Imagine the first time there is a traitor in a group and he turns in the middle of a fight. The forums will light up like the fourth of July." <-- Adding what I was replying to back to the thread since you removed it in your reply.
What does EVE not having fireballs have to do with a traitor firing on his own team?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I said positionals, but it's a hard question because there are a lot of variables.
Great AI makes pve a lot better for me. That's why I liked the pve in Darkfall. Also, I don't like tab targeting and I like dodging, rolling, blocking, and LoS.
If a fight lasts long, that's fine as long as there is a reasonable reward. For example, I could smash through 6 mobs in the time it takes me to kill one baddy, then I should get a similar reward.
Also, we need to think about pace in the sense that an mmorpg is not really like an ARPG like Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. In those games, I expect to smash through a lot more mobs quickly. I supposed an mmorpg could be that way, but usually they don't ask you to fight at that pace.
Friendly fire through AOE effects such as fireballs change the metagame (e.g don't shoot into melee) - traitors do not. I brought up friendly fire specifically for that effect.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I like action combat (TERA was pretty fun), but my hands get really weak pretty quickly because of lingering issues from bilateral carpal about 10 years ago. As such, tab-targetting has its moments of appeal also.
I think the best answer for me is a 'switch' between the two. Obviously, the skill/action-oriented one should yield better results, but the less intensive combat should be playable to an acceptable degree also. IOW...you wll only -excel- with the action-based, but you can farm/play/etc with simple combat if you prefer.
my 2 cents,
I agree with one poster early on.. This poll is a little flawed.. Too many variables and some overlap, but anyways.. I prefer combat to be similar to that of EQ1 when it comes to duration of fights.. They should be mini drama's where multiple avenues of winning are available..
Such as:
I should be able to KITE my mob if I'm unable to fight toe to toe.
I should be able to go toe to toe if I"m a heavy armor class, that might take 40 seconds and longer to fight.
I would love for groups to have options to tank and spank AOE's mob's or pull singles using forms of CC..
I want RECOVERY time to be brought back where stamina or mana pool matters.. I do not believe in instant FULL recovery seconds after the fight is over.. Recovery does not need to be as long as EQ had it, but I do like the regeneration of stamina and mana to mean something.. Eating a mage biscuit after a fight = full recovery is BULLSH*T.. In my opinion..
In conclusion.. I wish to have fights that last a minute and longer, slower recovery and definately bring back the fear of ADD's, like EQ did.. OH.. One more thing.. "lose the clear agro if you run away 20 feet".... I really really really find NO fun in fighting a mob when I can run away 20 yeards and RESET the mob's agro.. I love how EQ did it.. Sure you can run away and if you get enough distance between you and the mob, the mob will walk back to it's path area.. BUT it never forgets unless you zoned out or had it's memory erased.. EQ was genius in class skills, compared to today's "Holy Trinity" 5 second combat..
I voted for separating enemies. It's a challenge especially in games like GW2, and the Trinity really comes into play here, such as WoW's combat. In GW2 though, even though you can hurt mulitple enemies grouped together, it's not always in your best interest to get them that close to one another. It takes some strategy (mostly in dungeons I imagine).
I'm really looking forward to TESO combat.
Where's the option for "CC heavy" combat?
I know, not many players didn't whine about it, but forcing players to give up valuable hotbar realestate to choose and use a specific cc breaker was a mental part of the game that's gone missing of late.Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Seperating foes should be part of the strategy I must use to win - 19.4%
Which includes mezzing, hezing, lull-ing, agro-droppnig, stuning and fearing... and even off-tanking.
theres no room left for strategic combat here! What are you thinking?
instead you get an aggro power that allows you to tank the whole universe.
im just kiddin..i agree.. and i think TESO has this.