My view of GW2 is that I'm getting my moneys worth out of it . I played 30 pounds for it a couple of months ago and I'm still finding plenty of thing to keep me occupied in it . It not as great as WoW was in it Vanilla period though .I don't want to play for 5 hours a day an hour or two is plenty .Its just pure fun . Not quite the immersion I would want in an mmo but who cares that immersion exists in so few mmos these days . Its not retardedly easy like WoW so thats fine by me . Of course theres things I would see done differently as with every mmo . Its doing amazingly well the servers are all busy and unlike games like Rift and WoW its not city centric and feels dynamic . I honestly think some people want too much .
The bold writing in the OP tells the true story, it's like a defensive defence, again though, it's a lesson learned. What took only a couple of weeks for some has obviously taken weeks for other to find about about GW2.
Beautiful looking MMO with a very nice graphic engine but the game is soul less and lacks any depth.
Personal taste and opinions are not related to a universal truth.
You say Guild Wars 2 is a "soulless" game, in my experience Everquest 2 (even more than original EQ) and Guild Wars (1&2) are games full of personality and "soul".
I had fun in original EQ and Vanguard for months, but EQ2 and GW2 are my favorite "online RPGs". The real conclusion is that we disagree and we probably enjoy different types of games, but based on what you said I have the impression you believe that "you see the truth" and I just didn't realize it yet (which is false).
See, while I was playing EQ2 some friends were playing Lineage 2 and some others WoW, in their eyes EQ2 had no "souls" and I never really saw any soul on L2 and WoW, this personal opinion never changed and no one acted as an arrogant lord of the truth toward each other.
The main reason why EQ2 and GW2 are games with souls to is the immersion I feel playing them and after games like War, AOC, SWTOR and many others, I disagree when someone try to "expose" GW2 as a "shallower" game, especially when some of the "deeper" games are just a collection of older patterns and time consuming mechanics.
I have nothing against your opinion about GW2 or any game, I just don't understand the attitude.
I will give you an example related to movies:
In my opinion expressive movies like "Holy Mountain (1973)" and "Vozvrashchenie (2003)" are movies with a lot of "soul" (and for some reasons really pieces of art on cinema, but here is not the place for this deep and detailed conversation) while "Star Wars" is nothing but fun entertainment, has no soul, no expressiveness aside huge entertainment value to me.
Again about games, "Dark Souls", " Demon's Souls" and "The Witcher 2" to me are games with soul while "Skyrim" is fun, but a soulless version of "Morrowind".
The discussion about "soul" in an entertainment production (we are not talking about pure art creations, but entertainment related productions) is relative, very personal and don't hold any real aspect of an universal truth.
But as I said, I really respect your opinion and you are entitled to like or dislike any entertainment production.
Originally posted by drakaena Fans of this game keep pointing out that there are carrots to chase for those that want them. True, enough. I don't disagree. Problem is, those carrots are inferrior to other themepark games. GW2 dungeons don't even come close to comparing to raids in WoW or Rift. GW2 sPvP is an esport without any incentive whatsoever. WTF? WvW is a giant circle jerk of castle swapping for fast rep. So PvP is lacking incentive and easily exploited and instance PvE is underwhelming at best. What am I missing here? It's not that there isn't carrots to gnaw, it's that they taste rotten.
lol umm have you even been playing WvW ? this isn't fusang.. also what is the purpose of you getting that top raid gear in wow or Rift or that top PVP gear?
Have you? Because I share a vent with guilds that coordinate point swapping. Doh. Who said anything about purpose, THEY ARENT AS GOOD. It's an inferrior design. Are you going to sit here and tell me with a straight face you think GW2 instance PvE is done as well as the other two Themepark games I mentioned? No.
i hate trinity dungeons so i can say yes.. also again why are those carrots so much better? what do you get to do with all that best gear you spent all that time raiding for or PVPing for in those other games.. its inferior to you maybe but not an inferior design overall imho bot at all... maybe people actually like it a lot better.. i know it's impossible to think others differ in opinions but it's true
You missed the point entirely. It has nothing to do with what a player will do with his or her gear. It's about in the moment. The actual act of raiding and or PvPing in other themeparks is much more enjoyable. Not that I'm a big advocate of either, but if I had to choose one, I'm not picking GW2. It's too casual for its own good. There has to be a level of challenge and skill when obtaining a carrot, otherwise you don't appreciate it. GW2 is just grind without skill. Sure, there is some skill required, but it is marginal. Everyone can do it. There's nothing that separates players. Even GW1 got this right. GW2 is gold star stickers for everyone. That's dumb. Where's the competition, the rivalries, the respect. Everyone is just blah. Who's the best PvE and PvP guilds? Does anyone even know? Is there anyway to tell? Who wants a game where everyone is the same... that's so mind numbingly bland. IMHO (;
+1 to this post. This is the best post I have seen that very much sums up what makes GW2 less fun then any other mmo I have played.
I never thought GW2 would be some kind of MMO revolution. I didn't think it was innovative or anything like that. I knew dynamic events weren't really dynamic.
I knew what I was getting, and I feel I did get my money's worth.
Now that that's out of the way...
I'm not 100% sure WHY I've gotten bored of it. It's become like WoW for me; I sorta wanna log in, but I'm not able to bring myself to do so.
It definitely wasn't community, since I generally almost NEVER talk to anyone unless I was really bored. I doubt it was SPvP or WvWvW, because I had never bothered to go in there in the first place.
I eventually came up with only one major reason I could think of that could have contributed to my feeling of ennui towards GW2.
Everything has a feeling of telling you what to do, but at the same time, it feels like there is no definite goal to work towards. The result is a feeling of pointlessness.
Unfortunately, I cannot figure out how to really explain this, and I really need to log off right now, so I'll add more stuff later.
Completely agree. Imo the biggest core problem in GW2's design is player motivation. When they ditched GW1's skill acquisition model they made a huge mistake. They were definitely onto something there. (a disclaimer: I tried out GW1, didn't like it and still don't like it, but since i'm into game design i did study it very closely.)
Imo, an ideal game first gives you a choice of definite goals... and then leaves it to your imagination on how to accomplish them. GW2 manages to do exactly the opposite - it gives you no choice of definite goals (the adjective "definite" is very important here) but gives you very clear guidance on how to accomplish... something that doesn't really exist. Whatever you do is rewarded the same - by some currency you later "cash in" for rewards "of your choice." You can see why this is dull - it is exactly like an office job in real life. You do something and then you get money which you can spend on stuff which has no relation whatsoever with the manner you earned the money. This is the root of alienation inherent in today's money-based world. You work as an accountant to spend money on climbing the Himalayas. Or you climb Himalayas to earn money so you can finally have some comfort and peace, whatever. I don't remember Frodo picking flowers or even going off on a grand adventure to the west so he can eventually drop the Ring into Mt Doom in the east... everything he DID was inherently specific to the GOAL. His goal was in that direction and that's where he went and what he did. In today's alienated office world there is a disconnect between what you do and what you're rewarded with. The basic tenent of drama is that what you DO determines what YOU COME UP WITH. This is especially true with anything that has the word "epic" anywhere nearby. "Epic" is not about mountain-sized dragons or huge shoulder armor or glowy swords, it is about the unity of the purpose and the means that take you to it, it is about the Way. You can have "epicness" in a drab suburban kitchen and yawning boredom in the middle of an intergalactic battle with planets exploding left and right. GW2 suffers from this modern alienated (read "boring") disconnect just like the 1st world daily existence does.
As I mentioned again, they need to urgently introduce PARTICULAR REWARDS for PARTICULAR ACTIONS. My Ranger gave me a lot of joy to play because I had goals I could set for myself - find that particular pet whichcan be found only in a particular region. GW2 desperately needs such definite goals which, despite being definite, are set by players themselves. For example, new versions of weapons skills that cannot be purchased by bland and boring "skill points" you get by crafting and picking onions ffs, but by doing something lengthy and heroic and very specific.
I never thought GW2 would be some kind of MMO revolution. I didn't think it was innovative or anything like that. I knew dynamic events weren't really dynamic.
I knew what I was getting, and I feel I did get my money's worth.
Now that that's out of the way...
I'm not 100% sure WHY I've gotten bored of it. It's become like WoW for me; I sorta wanna log in, but I'm not able to bring myself to do so.
It definitely wasn't community, since I generally almost NEVER talk to anyone unless I was really bored. I doubt it was SPvP or WvWvW, because I had never bothered to go in there in the first place.
I eventually came up with only one major reason I could think of that could have contributed to my feeling of ennui towards GW2.
Everything has a feeling of telling you what to do, but at the same time, it feels like there is no definite goal to work towards. The result is a feeling of pointlessness.
Unfortunately, I cannot figure out how to really explain this, and I really need to log off right now, so I'll add more stuff later.
The only cumminty I saw was on the forums, which was lame for an MMO.
Arena Net needs to work on the social aspect of this game, because it is lacking. This is a key component because it prevents people like you (and me) from logging on.
Essentially there is no interaction with other players. No interaction? No care. No hate. No love. No emotion
No emotion means every other player might as well be a NPC, for the good they do. No emotion also means there is no need to log on.
GW2 is a good solo player game though. The graphics engine is better than SWTOR, which is also a single player game. (both under the guise of an MMO :P )
If you'd ever log you'd see how the community actually is in game...
The 2nd red part: -.-
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
To put it in another way: ANet devs said that "Magic the Gathering" CCG was the inspiration behind their skill system in GW1... Wtf happened? They've completely missed the ball this time with the way you obtain skills and advance your character. What they have now is a good base, everyhing at your fingertips etc, but it really feels like "spreadsheet design" to me. What the game needs is more "oomph," especially at 80+. Crazy ass fotms were exactly what made GW1 so intriguing and long-lived. By spreadsheeting and balancing everything and putting it all on the same currency line, ANet made this otherwise staggeringly rich game feel bland in terms of player goals and motivation.
For me when it comes to GW2, most of my fun has been with the pvp side of things. WvW mostly. So much I can say about how I can lose time doing that. It has many problems in the early going but I can see the potential in that game mode.
Pve in most themparks thus far tend to be bland for me basically because I power through content to reach cap and backtrack. I told myself that I wouldn't do that with this one. I have been taking my time so far, really paying attention to detail and for some reason it really opened my eyes to how well done alot of the zones are. I said before in different threads that I find something new everytime I hit an already visited area. I pay attention to what NPC's are doing. I see this world moving along and know it would happen whether I was there or not. When I see npc's fighting each other I know that it's an above average game.
Wolfpacks attacking Veteran Oakhearts, pirates raiding shoreline villages, so on and so on. It doesn't feel as static as other games.
As far as goals, well, I set those myself...for myself, in any game. One day I feel like mindlessly farming, another I may feel like pvping, another I may feel like doing a dungeon.
As far as boredom goes, I get that from time to time no matter what game I'm playing. I have come to realize that each and every one of these themeparks are practically the same anyhow. Hell, every genre matching game is alike, so it's up to me to find things to do. I take some responsiblity in my gaming. If I can't make it fun, then I move on. Developers present a product giving you things to do. You do them and apply your own fun factor to it. You want challenge, challenge yourself within the confines of said product, if I can't and no longer want to, then I move on.
Community for me ingame is decent. I see alot of player interaction. I quest with friends from other games, friends I meet while traveling from zone to zone. Community to me falls on the players, not the content. I don't have the attitude that because a zone is soloable that I never have to talk to anyone. That falls on me. I don't need a veil over content to force me to play with others, I like doing it just because...well, it's an MMO and players are around.
I never thought GW2 would be some kind of MMO revolution. I didn't think it was innovative or anything like that. I knew dynamic events weren't really dynamic.
I knew what I was getting, and I feel I did get my money's worth.
Now that that's out of the way...
I'm not 100% sure WHY I've gotten bored of it. It's become like WoW for me; I sorta wanna log in, but I'm not able to bring myself to do so.
It definitely wasn't community, since I generally almost NEVER talk to anyone unless I was really bored. I doubt it was SPvP or WvWvW, because I had never bothered to go in there in the first place.
I eventually came up with only one major reason I could think of that could have contributed to my feeling of ennui towards GW2.
Everything has a feeling of telling you what to do, but at the same time, it feels like there is no definite goal to work towards. The result is a feeling of pointlessness.
Unfortunately, I cannot figure out how to really explain this, and I really need to log off right now, so I'll add more stuff later.
Completely agree. Imo the biggest core problem in GW2's design is player motivation. When they ditched GW1's skill acquisition model they made a huge mistake. They were definitely onto something there. (a disclaimer: I tried out GW1, didn't like it and still don't like it, but since i'm into game design i did study it very closely.)
Imo, an ideal game first gives you a choice of definite goals... and then leaves it to your imagination on how to accomplish them. GW2 manages to do exactly the opposite - it gives you no choice of definite goals (the adjective "definite" is very important here) but gives you very clear guidance on how to accomplish... something that doesn't really exist. Whatever you do is rewarded the same - by some currency you later "cash in" for rewards "of your choice." You can see why this is dull - it is exactly like an office job in real life. You do something and then you get money which you can spend on stuff which has no relation whatsoever with the manner you earned the money. This is the root of alienation inherent in today's money-based world. You work as an accountant to spend money on climbing the Himalayas. Or you climb Himalayas to earn money so you can finally have some comfort and peace, whatever. I don't remember Frodo picking flowers or even going off on a grand adventure to the west so he can eventually drop the Ring into Mt Doom in the east... everything he DID was inherently specific to the GOAL. His goal was in that direction and that's where he went and what he did. In today's alienated office world there is a disconnect between what you do and what you're rewarded with. The basic tenent of drama is that what you DO determines what YOU COME UP WITH. This is especially true with anything that has the word "epic" anywhere nearby. "Epic" is not about mountain-sized dragons or huge shoulder armor or glowy swords, it is about the unity of the purpose and the means that take you to it, it is about the Way. You can have "epicness" in a drab suburban kitchen and yawning boredom in the middle of an intergalactic battle with planets exploding left and right. GW2 suffers from this modern alienated (read "boring") disconnect just like the 1st world daily existence does.
As I mentioned again, they need to urgently introduce PARTICULAR REWARDS for PARTICULAR ACTIONS. My Ranger gave me a lot of joy to play because I had goals I could set for myself - find that particular pet whichcan be found only in a particular region. GW2 desperately needs such definite goals which, despite being definite, are set by players themselves. For example, new versions of weapons skills that cannot be purchased by bland and boring "skill points" you get by crafting and picking onions ffs, but by doing something lengthy and heroic and very specific.
Well said. I find myself thinking back to FFXI and how that game always gave so many, almost too many, definitive goals to persue and why I tend to compare every MMO I play to it if even in an offhand way. GW2 is like the other end of that spectrum with just about NO definitive goals beyond the level cap/story epilogue/map completion/exotics which are alll basically done in the majority of the 1-80 leveling game anyway.
this issue is present in all themeparks.. whats the point of getting all that raid gear what do you do with it in raid based games? do more raids? whats the point in grinding out PVP gear in themeparks? stomp on lowbies? again it's really an issue with all themeparks in general.. it's basically themepark burnout..
meant ot quote part of the OP oops
it feels like there is no definite goal to work towards. The result is a feeling of pointlessness.
I don't want or need raiding in order to get my carrot, but I want that carrot none the less.
that's the thing though GW2 has plenty of what you would call "carrots" but in the end it's the same issue any other themepark has once you get your "carrot" what do you do with it? that's the issue I have people bashing GW2 for this although it's an issue with the themepark subgenre itself not GW2
I don't consider minute incremental upgrades every few levels as much of a carrot. I did not find GW2 reward systems fun at all. Doesn't help that the game is designed to never let the player feel powerful. I shouldn't be surprised, I never liked GW1 either.
this issue is present in all themeparks.. whats the point of getting all that raid gear what do you do with it in raid based games? do more raids? whats the point in grinding out PVP gear in themeparks? stomp on lowbies? again it's really an issue with all themeparks in general.. it's basically themepark burnout..
meant ot quote part of the OP oops
it feels like there is no definite goal to work towards. The result is a feeling of pointlessness.
I don't want or need raiding in order to get my carrot, but I want that carrot none the less.
that's the thing though GW2 has plenty of what you would call "carrots" but in the end it's the same issue any other themepark has once you get your "carrot" what do you do with it? that's the issue I have people bashing GW2 for this although it's an issue with the themepark subgenre itself not GW2
I don't consider minute incremental upgrades every few levels as much of a carrot. I did not find GW2 reward systems fun at all. Doesn't help that the game is designed to never let the player feel powerful. I shouldn't be surprised, I never liked GW1 either.
depends what you mean by powerfull i can take my ranger to 1-15 zones and plow through mobs way faster than I could when i was actually level 1-15
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
this issue is present in all themeparks.. whats the point of getting all that raid gear what do you do with it in raid based games? do more raids? whats the point in grinding out PVP gear in themeparks? stomp on lowbies? again it's really an issue with all themeparks in general.. it's basically themepark burnout..
meant ot quote part of the OP oops
it feels like there is no definite goal to work towards. The result is a feeling of pointlessness.
I don't want or need raiding in order to get my carrot, but I want that carrot none the less.
that's the thing though GW2 has plenty of what you would call "carrots" but in the end it's the same issue any other themepark has once you get your "carrot" what do you do with it? that's the issue I have people bashing GW2 for this although it's an issue with the themepark subgenre itself not GW2
I don't consider minute incremental upgrades every few levels as much of a carrot. I did not find GW2 reward systems fun at all. Doesn't help that the game is designed to never let the player feel powerful. I shouldn't be surprised, I never liked GW1 either.
depends what you mean by powerfull i can take my ranger to 1-15 zones and plow through mobs way faster than I could when i was actually level 1-15
You are not being truthful. I've gone back to lower level areas as well and it scales you down till you are one level above the content, making it a little bit easier, but most certainly not plowing through mobs.
this issue is present in all themeparks.. whats the point of getting all that raid gear what do you do with it in raid based games? do more raids? whats the point in grinding out PVP gear in themeparks? stomp on lowbies? again it's really an issue with all themeparks in general.. it's basically themepark burnout..
meant ot quote part of the OP oops
it feels like there is no definite goal to work towards. The result is a feeling of pointlessness.
I don't want or need raiding in order to get my carrot, but I want that carrot none the less.
that's the thing though GW2 has plenty of what you would call "carrots" but in the end it's the same issue any other themepark has once you get your "carrot" what do you do with it? that's the issue I have people bashing GW2 for this although it's an issue with the themepark subgenre itself not GW2
I don't consider minute incremental upgrades every few levels as much of a carrot. I did not find GW2 reward systems fun at all. Doesn't help that the game is designed to never let the player feel powerful. I shouldn't be surprised, I never liked GW1 either.
depends what you mean by powerfull i can take my ranger to 1-15 zones and plow through mobs way faster than I could when i was actually level 1-15
You are not being truthful. I've gone back to lower level areas as well and it scales you down till you are one level above the content, making it a little bit easier, but most certainly not plowing through mobs.
what are you talking about i'm mowing down mobs with my 63 ranger.. you are not one shotting by any means but definitely killing thing way faster than if I was level appropriate.. yes you scale but you still have all your traits and skills you are still plenty stronger
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I'm not logging in until they fix rangers in SPvP which I heard they might do soon. Being subpar in every role is discouraging to say the least, especially when I hop on my Mesmer and wreck fools even 2v1s.
Also, you should be suspicious of people that spend more time on the forums cheerleading a game then actually playing it.
Finally, I'm noticing a trend of people bashing themepark games because they played one way too much, got burnt out, and suddenly blame all themepark games as the bane to the mmorpg existence. I've played fun themeparks and I've played fun sandboxes. Both had their pros and cons but its the games that were the best made, with the best mechanics that I stuck with the longest and had the most fun.
Do you think I should make a review of this game? At least the parts I actually played?
I guess it would probably be more like an impression huh?
Should I finish/actually start my Cataclysm Review first?
No, don't write any reviews.
Uh...why not?
well review would be a lot better than the OP imho.. although overall i'm going to assume it will read very similar to spocks so probably sort of pointless but it's your time so really up to you..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Also, you should be suspicious of people that spend more time on the forums cheerleading a game then actually playing it.
Yeah, the post per day ratios by some members here are simply amazing. Makes one wonder if some of them even play the game, perhaps just paid shills?
Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Do you think I should make a review of this game? At least the parts I actually played?
I guess it would probably be more like an impression huh?
Should I finish/actually start my Cataclysm Review first?
No, don't write any reviews.
Uh...why not?
Well, reading your earlier post about terraria makes me know what you wanted in a game and then makes me wonder why you play mmorpgs. It's like driving a car and complaining it can't fly. Mmorpgs are what they are.
Also, if you wrote about cataclysm it would be outdated and very bias. No offense but I've seen you do a lot of wow bashing which could be summed up with you being bored of the game. I don't think that would make a good review.
Well, reading your earlier post about terraria makes me know what you wanted in a game and then makes me wonder why you play mmorpgs. It's like driving a car and complaining it can't fly. Mmorpgs are what they are.
Also, if you wrote about Cataclysm it would be outdated and very bias. No offense but I've seen you do a lot of wow bashing which could be summed up with you being bored of the game. I don't think that would make a good review.
Even though my post history may suggest otherwise, I think I can suppress my bias just fine when it comes to reviews.
Oh, and what exactly do you mean by what I wanted? I know what I want, but I want to hear it from the POV of an outsider. It makes for an interesting read and gives me insight on how others see me.
Also, you should be suspicious of people that spend more time on the forums cheerleading a game then actually playing it.
Yeah, the post per day ratios by some members here are simply amazing. Makes one wonder if some of them even play the game, perhaps just paid shills?
Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
try working a 12 hour com duty watch with nothing to do but sit at a desk monitoring radios that never have any traffic on them..gotta do something to fill out that time:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I never thought GW2 would be some kind of MMO revolution. I didn't think it was innovative or anything like that. I knew dynamic events weren't really dynamic.
I knew what I was getting, and I feel I did get my money's worth.
Now that that's out of the way...
I'm not 100% sure WHY I've gotten bored of it. It's become like WoW for me; I sorta wanna log in, but I'm not able to bring myself to do so.
It definitely wasn't community, since I generally almost NEVER talk to anyone unless I was really bored. I doubt it was SPvP or WvWvW, because I had never bothered to go in there in the first place.
I eventually came up with only one major reason I could think of that could have contributed to my feeling of ennui towards GW2.
Everything has a feeling of telling you what to do, but at the same time, it feels like there is no definite goal to work towards. The result is a feeling of pointlessness.
Unfortunately, I cannot figure out how to really explain this, and I really need to log off right now, so I'll add more stuff later.
It's something that a lot of people in this genre won't admit, but a LOT of us are simply bored with the format. We keep getting excited and we keep getting bored again. Hell, i'm not even mad at GW2, i'm just bored with every single game now. I've gone back to playing single player games again. I broke out my snes and went through Chrono Trigger again and also switching between Morrowind and Skyrim.
I don't speak for everyone, obviously, but i do feel that alot of others think like myself, if not silently, that this genre may have run its course. The only problem is...I don't want to be done with it yet. I want one last ride. One last real, spectacular ride before i'm done.
Comments
My view of GW2 is that I'm getting my moneys worth out of it . I played 30 pounds for it a couple of months ago and I'm still finding plenty of thing to keep me occupied in it . It not as great as WoW was in it Vanilla period though .I don't want to play for 5 hours a day an hour or two is plenty .Its just pure fun . Not quite the immersion I would want in an mmo but who cares that immersion exists in so few mmos these days . Its not retardedly easy like WoW so thats fine by me . Of course theres things I would see done differently as with every mmo . Its doing amazingly well the servers are all busy and unlike games like Rift and WoW its not city centric and feels dynamic . I honestly think some people want too much .
I'm not in the slightest interested in character stat/power or gear progression and the system doesn't work for me either outside of sPvP.
The carrot grind is still there, it is now merely cosmetic. The endgame is still exactly the same carrot chase and nothing more.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Personal taste and opinions are not related to a universal truth.
You say Guild Wars 2 is a "soulless" game, in my experience Everquest 2 (even more than original EQ) and Guild Wars (1&2) are games full of personality and "soul".
I had fun in original EQ and Vanguard for months, but EQ2 and GW2 are my favorite "online RPGs". The real conclusion is that we disagree and we probably enjoy different types of games, but based on what you said I have the impression you believe that "you see the truth" and I just didn't realize it yet (which is false).
See, while I was playing EQ2 some friends were playing Lineage 2 and some others WoW, in their eyes EQ2 had no "souls" and I never really saw any soul on L2 and WoW, this personal opinion never changed and no one acted as an arrogant lord of the truth toward each other.
The main reason why EQ2 and GW2 are games with souls to is the immersion I feel playing them and after games like War, AOC, SWTOR and many others, I disagree when someone try to "expose" GW2 as a "shallower" game, especially when some of the "deeper" games are just a collection of older patterns and time consuming mechanics.
I have nothing against your opinion about GW2 or any game, I just don't understand the attitude.
I will give you an example related to movies:
In my opinion expressive movies like "Holy Mountain (1973)" and "Vozvrashchenie (2003)" are movies with a lot of "soul" (and for some reasons really pieces of art on cinema, but here is not the place for this deep and detailed conversation) while "Star Wars" is nothing but fun entertainment, has no soul, no expressiveness aside huge entertainment value to me.
Again about games, "Dark Souls", " Demon's Souls" and "The Witcher 2" to me are games with soul while "Skyrim" is fun, but a soulless version of "Morrowind".
The discussion about "soul" in an entertainment production (we are not talking about pure art creations, but entertainment related productions) is relative, very personal and don't hold any real aspect of an universal truth.
But as I said, I really respect your opinion and you are entitled to like or dislike any entertainment production.
Oy, maybe I should have just never posted this.
But I had a feeling that if I didn't, and I decided to write an honest opinion on GW2 in the future, someone's gonna call me a hypocrite.
+1 to this post. This is the best post I have seen that very much sums up what makes GW2 less fun then any other mmo I have played.
Completely agree. Imo the biggest core problem in GW2's design is player motivation. When they ditched GW1's skill acquisition model they made a huge mistake. They were definitely onto something there. (a disclaimer: I tried out GW1, didn't like it and still don't like it, but since i'm into game design i did study it very closely.)
Imo, an ideal game first gives you a choice of definite goals... and then leaves it to your imagination on how to accomplish them. GW2 manages to do exactly the opposite - it gives you no choice of definite goals (the adjective "definite" is very important here) but gives you very clear guidance on how to accomplish... something that doesn't really exist. Whatever you do is rewarded the same - by some currency you later "cash in" for rewards "of your choice." You can see why this is dull - it is exactly like an office job in real life. You do something and then you get money which you can spend on stuff which has no relation whatsoever with the manner you earned the money. This is the root of alienation inherent in today's money-based world. You work as an accountant to spend money on climbing the Himalayas. Or you climb Himalayas to earn money so you can finally have some comfort and peace, whatever. I don't remember Frodo picking flowers or even going off on a grand adventure to the west so he can eventually drop the Ring into Mt Doom in the east... everything he DID was inherently specific to the GOAL. His goal was in that direction and that's where he went and what he did. In today's alienated office world there is a disconnect between what you do and what you're rewarded with. The basic tenent of drama is that what you DO determines what YOU COME UP WITH. This is especially true with anything that has the word "epic" anywhere nearby. "Epic" is not about mountain-sized dragons or huge shoulder armor or glowy swords, it is about the unity of the purpose and the means that take you to it, it is about the Way. You can have "epicness" in a drab suburban kitchen and yawning boredom in the middle of an intergalactic battle with planets exploding left and right. GW2 suffers from this modern alienated (read "boring") disconnect just like the 1st world daily existence does.
As I mentioned again, they need to urgently introduce PARTICULAR REWARDS for PARTICULAR ACTIONS. My Ranger gave me a lot of joy to play because I had goals I could set for myself - find that particular pet whichcan be found only in a particular region. GW2 desperately needs such definite goals which, despite being definite, are set by players themselves. For example, new versions of weapons skills that cannot be purchased by bland and boring "skill points" you get by crafting and picking onions ffs, but by doing something lengthy and heroic and very specific.
If you'd ever log you'd see how the community actually is in game...
The 2nd red part: -.-
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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I think you just managed to help me figure out what I was trying to say about what I would have preferred.
Well ok, I kinda knew what it was I wanted, after playing Terraria, I just couldn't figure out how to put it in words.
For me when it comes to GW2, most of my fun has been with the pvp side of things. WvW mostly. So much I can say about how I can lose time doing that. It has many problems in the early going but I can see the potential in that game mode.
Pve in most themparks thus far tend to be bland for me basically because I power through content to reach cap and backtrack. I told myself that I wouldn't do that with this one. I have been taking my time so far, really paying attention to detail and for some reason it really opened my eyes to how well done alot of the zones are. I said before in different threads that I find something new everytime I hit an already visited area. I pay attention to what NPC's are doing. I see this world moving along and know it would happen whether I was there or not. When I see npc's fighting each other I know that it's an above average game.
Wolfpacks attacking Veteran Oakhearts, pirates raiding shoreline villages, so on and so on. It doesn't feel as static as other games.
As far as goals, well, I set those myself...for myself, in any game. One day I feel like mindlessly farming, another I may feel like pvping, another I may feel like doing a dungeon.
As far as boredom goes, I get that from time to time no matter what game I'm playing.
I have come to realize that each and every one of these themeparks are practically the same anyhow. Hell, every genre matching game is alike, so it's up to me to find things to do. I take some responsiblity in my gaming. If I can't make it fun, then I move on. Developers present a product giving you things to do. You do them and apply your own fun factor to it. You want challenge, challenge yourself within the confines of said product, if I can't and no longer want to, then I move on.
Community for me ingame is decent. I see alot of player interaction. I quest with friends from other games, friends I meet while traveling from zone to zone. Community to me falls on the players, not the content. I don't have the attitude that because a zone is soloable that I never have to talk to anyone. That falls on me. I don't need a veil over content to force me to play with others, I like doing it just because...well, it's an MMO and players are around.
Sorry you got bored. It happens.
Well said. I find myself thinking back to FFXI and how that game always gave so many, almost too many, definitive goals to persue and why I tend to compare every MMO I play to it if even in an offhand way. GW2 is like the other end of that spectrum with just about NO definitive goals beyond the level cap/story epilogue/map completion/exotics which are alll basically done in the majority of the 1-80 leveling game anyway.
I don't consider minute incremental upgrades every few levels as much of a carrot. I did not find GW2 reward systems fun at all. Doesn't help that the game is designed to never let the player feel powerful. I shouldn't be surprised, I never liked GW1 either.
depends what you mean by powerfull i can take my ranger to 1-15 zones and plow through mobs way faster than I could when i was actually level 1-15
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
You are not being truthful. I've gone back to lower level areas as well and it scales you down till you are one level above the content, making it a little bit easier, but most certainly not plowing through mobs.
what are you talking about i'm mowing down mobs with my 63 ranger.. you are not one shotting by any means but definitely killing thing way faster than if I was level appropriate.. yes you scale but you still have all your traits and skills you are still plenty stronger
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I'm not logging in until they fix rangers in SPvP which I heard they might do soon. Being subpar in every role is discouraging to say the least, especially when I hop on my Mesmer and wreck fools even 2v1s.
Also, you should be suspicious of people that spend more time on the forums cheerleading a game then actually playing it.
Finally, I'm noticing a trend of people bashing themepark games because they played one way too much, got burnt out, and suddenly blame all themepark games as the bane to the mmorpg existence. I've played fun themeparks and I've played fun sandboxes. Both had their pros and cons but its the games that were the best made, with the best mechanics that I stuck with the longest and had the most fun.
Do you think I should make a review of this game? At least the parts I actually played?
I guess it would probably be more like an impression huh?
Should I finish/actually start my Cataclysm Review first?
No, don't write any reviews.
Uh...why not?
well review would be a lot better than the OP imho.. although overall i'm going to assume it will read very similar to spocks so probably sort of pointless but it's your time so really up to you..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yeah, the post per day ratios by some members here are simply amazing. Makes one wonder if some of them even play the game, perhaps just paid shills?
Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Well, reading your earlier post about terraria makes me know what you wanted in a game and then makes me wonder why you play mmorpgs. It's like driving a car and complaining it can't fly. Mmorpgs are what they are.
Also, if you wrote about cataclysm it would be outdated and very bias. No offense but I've seen you do a lot of wow bashing which could be summed up with you being bored of the game. I don't think that would make a good review.
Even though my post history may suggest otherwise, I think I can suppress my bias just fine when it comes to reviews.
Oh, and what exactly do you mean by what I wanted? I know what I want, but I want to hear it from the POV of an outsider. It makes for an interesting read and gives me insight on how others see me.
try working a 12 hour com duty watch with nothing to do but sit at a desk monitoring radios that never have any traffic on them..gotta do something to fill out that time:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It's something that a lot of people in this genre won't admit, but a LOT of us are simply bored with the format. We keep getting excited and we keep getting bored again. Hell, i'm not even mad at GW2, i'm just bored with every single game now. I've gone back to playing single player games again. I broke out my snes and went through Chrono Trigger again and also switching between Morrowind and Skyrim.
I don't speak for everyone, obviously, but i do feel that alot of others think like myself, if not silently, that this genre may have run its course. The only problem is...I don't want to be done with it yet. I want one last ride. One last real, spectacular ride before i'm done.