Most new mmo's from now on are likely to be so called F2P's. The old subscription model is almost dead. Either you get used to it, or stop playing this type of game.
That's complete horseshit. In fact, most titles that moved from a subscription based model to F2P killed themselves with it. Let me just give you a prime example: Lineage 2.
Yes, it is still running. Yes, active accounts are looking healthy, BUT: Who is playing the game nowadays? I can tell you: Botters and "Premium players". There is no place for free players. It's all about who puts the most money in, wins. So, if you've got to invest thousands of dollars to win anything in the game, why are they even advertising free play? It makes no sense.
F2P is the plague like the op stated and it will soon enough kill the whole genre. All it does is cater to greedy publishers and developers. Also, may I ask what made you think subscription models are dead in the first place?
Most F2P titles so far have been complete utter failures and most of the games who wen't F2P recently almost died instantly.
There is not a single F2P title out there that is not to be considered P2W.
you're Lineage 2 example is not very good is it lol most people stoped playing that game when newer games came out, most people could not stand the grind in that game, them going F2P was a brilliant thing, because it attracted people that had never played it before, heck if i had not played in before i would of at least gave it a shot.
Anyone who had been playing that game for a considerable time would always have an advantage over any new player, i remember when i first started playing that game, i had to spend money buying adena, so it has always been a pay2win game.
Free 2 play games is the way forward now, i have no time for greedy devs like blizzard who charge to buy a game then charge to play it then charge for every exspansion pack! how many has there been now ? and please dont use that excuse it cost money to run servers its old and has been found a bad excuse for years now.
You lack logic. All F2P did to Lineage II was to attract more bots, farmers and P2W fetishists. Even more than the original game had. Also, there is a difference between build in P2W mechanics and illegal purchase of ingame currency. When you first started you didn't have to buy adena by spending real money in the first place. All you had to do was to play the game with a little bit of patience like every honest person did, you choose to cheat instead. Fine, that decision is up to yourself but don't call the game a P2W title without even the slightest bit of knowledge of the game purely based on your own pathetic experience.
Buying adena to get the best gear alone wasn't nearly enough back then, since the game had other important factors to it like for example grades. There has never been gear imbalances in the early years of the game.
What's wrong with freaking B2P with a cosmetic only store? That's the best model I can imagine. If you add a major content update, charge a one time price for it. If you make a quality product people will buy the box and your content updates. No subs. No P2W stores.
Originally posted by kdw75 I was a huge fan of PS. It was the first MMO I played and I spent hours on there having a blast with friends and people we met online. I am worried though that this being Free to Play will be an inferior game. Why are they going F2P on this? I tend to avoid F2P games like the plague so I am torn on this one since I am such a fan of the original.
PS had a subs fee and this was it's single biggest mistake, look how quickly that game died on it's arse.
Try not to think of PS as an mmo, think of it as an FPS, take an objective look at the game, compare it to the multitude of other FPS's around, would you honestly pay a subs fee to play PS2?
Some would, but not many, this is proven fact by PS1's terrible track record at retaining subs.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
While I personally avoid and hate any microtransaction schemes in mmoRPG's, I also don't think pure subsciption would work in game like Planetside2. I am in beta and it is just shooter. Yeah in persistant map on grand scale and owning bases and instalations gives you and your faction resources but in the end it is just a shooter.
When I am playing it, gameplay feel more similar to Battlefield 3 just on a bigger scale than a world you pay access to.
On the other hand almost all new mmorpg's suffer from the same thing - does not feel like a world.
I would pay a sub for PS2 for sure, for me I find the community in Free to play game horrible...
At least with subscribers, at least the majority are serious about it, and there to enjoy the game not just QQ chat and compare it to x,y,z
This is the main argument for a subs fee and it's a good one. The trouble is, if hardly anyone pays the subs fee because the game isn't worth a subs fee, how big will this community be and how happy will they be when the game struggles and they close the servers one by one as happened in PS?
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Originally posted by kdw75 I was a huge fan of PS. It was the first MMO I played and I spent hours on there having a blast with friends and people we met online. I am worried though that this being Free to Play will be an inferior game. Why are they going F2P on this? I tend to avoid F2P games like the plague so I am torn on this one since I am such a fan of the original.
As far as I'm aware your totally wrong it is not free to play its buy to play .
Has anyone thought about the idea that the free to play for Planetside 2 is needed to make it shine, the game is centered around human player warfare on an epic scale.
Originally posted by kdw75 I was a huge fan of PS. It was the first MMO I played and I spent hours on there having a blast with friends and people we met online. I am worried though that this being Free to Play will be an inferior game. Why are they going F2P on this? I tend to avoid F2P games like the plague so I am torn on this one since I am such a fan of the original.
As far as I'm aware your totally wrong it is not free to play its buy to play .
Nope it's f2p.. The package you can buy now is for a couple of extra items and Station Cash money to try and get you hooked on the marketplace. It's also set up to where you have to choices: Either grind forever to get the items you want or just throw down real cash to buy everything you need right when you start. That way they can say the marketplace gives no advantages even though it obviously does..
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Originally posted by kdw75 I was a huge fan of PS. It was the first MMO I played and I spent hours on there having a blast with friends and people we met online. I am worried though that this being Free to Play will be an inferior game. Why are they going F2P on this? I tend to avoid F2P games like the plague so I am torn on this one since I am such a fan of the original.
As far as I'm aware your totally wrong it is not free to play its buy to play .
Nope it's f2p.. The package you can buy now is for a couple of extra items and Station Cash money to try and get you hooked on the marketplace. It's also set up to where you have to choices: Either grind forever to get the items you want or just throw down real cash to buy everything you need right when you start. That way they can say the marketplace gives no advantages even though it obviously does..
Just have had a look at the website seems a bit confusing to be honest . To me if theres an upfront fee where you buy the client its buy to play but at the bottom it says its free to play . I'm supprised at this is it is right because earlier this year they were stating it wouldn't be a pay to win game . That to me suggested it would have to be a buy to play model because otherwise it would have to be pay to win under a free to play model for them to make money . I was considering this had it been a GW2 buy to play model but theres no way I'll bother with a pay to win pvp game . Very bad move .
I would pay a sub for PS2 for sure, for me I find the community in Free to play game horrible...
At least with subscribers, at least the majority are serious about it, and there to enjoy the game not just QQ chat and compare it to x,y,z
lol thats not true . Lotro and DDO free to play and with two of the best most friendly communitys I've encountered in mmos . WoW subscription based with the worst community I know of in an mmo .
Originally posted by kdw75 I was a huge fan of PS. It was the first MMO I played and I spent hours on there having a blast with friends and people we met online. I am worried though that this being Free to Play will be an inferior game. Why are they going F2P on this? I tend to avoid F2P games like the plague so I am torn on this one since I am such a fan of the original.
As far as I'm aware your totally wrong it is not free to play its buy to play .
Nope it's f2p.. The package you can buy now is for a couple of extra items and Station Cash money to try and get you hooked on the marketplace. It's also set up to where you have to choices: Either grind forever to get the items you want or just throw down real cash to buy everything you need right when you start. That way they can say the marketplace gives no advantages even though it obviously does..
Just have had a look at the website seems a bit confusing to be honest . To me if theres an upfront fee where you buy the client its buy to play but at the bottom it says its free to play . I'm supprised at this is it is right because earlier this year they were stating it wouldn't be a pay to win game . That to me suggested it would have to be a buy to play model because otherwise it would have to be pay to win under a free to play model for them to make money . I was considering this had it been a GW2 buy to play model but theres no way I'll bother with a pay to win pvp game . Very bad move .
I was pretty excited about the game until recently.. Let's just say there is a rifle you really want.. You can't just work towards that rifle. There may be several rifles you have to grind until you can get it or you can just buy it straight from the store. So Johnny Numbnuts that used the store will be owning you for weeks while you grind. Is it possible for SOE to not destry a game? I don't think so..
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Originally posted by kdw75 I was a huge fan of PS. It was the first MMO I played and I spent hours on there having a blast with friends and people we met online. I am worried though that this being Free to Play will be an inferior game. Why are they going F2P on this? I tend to avoid F2P games like the plague so I am torn on this one since I am such a fan of the original.
As far as I'm aware your totally wrong it is not free to play its buy to play .
Nope it's f2p.. The package you can buy now is for a couple of extra items and Station Cash money to try and get you hooked on the marketplace. It's also set up to where you have to choices: Either grind forever to get the items you want or just throw down real cash to buy everything you need right when you start. That way they can say the marketplace gives no advantages even though it obviously does..
Just have had a look at the website seems a bit confusing to be honest . To me if theres an upfront fee where you buy the client its buy to play but at the bottom it says its free to play . I'm supprised at this is it is right because earlier this year they were stating it wouldn't be a pay to win game . That to me suggested it would have to be a buy to play model because otherwise it would have to be pay to win under a free to play model for them to make money . I was considering this had it been a GW2 buy to play model but theres no way I'll bother with a pay to win pvp game . Very bad move .
I was pretty excited about the game until recently.. Let's just say there is a rifle you really want.. You can't just work towards that rifle. There may be several rifles you have to grind until you can get it or you can just buy it straight from the store. So Johnny Numbnuts that used the store will be owning you for weeks while you grind. Is it possible for SOE to not destry a game? I don't think so..
Most new mmo's from now on are likely to be so called F2P's. The old subscription model is almost dead. Either you get used to it, or stop playing this type of game.
That's complete horseshit. In fact, most titles that moved from a subscription based model to F2P killed themselves with it. Let me just give you a prime example: Lineage 2.
Yes, it is still running. Yes, active accounts are looking healthy, BUT: Who is playing the game nowadays? I can tell you: Botters and "Premium players". There is no place for free players. It's all about who puts the most money in, wins. So, if you've got to invest thousands of dollars to win anything in the game, why are they even advertising free play? It makes no sense.
F2P is the plague like the op stated and it will soon enough kill the whole genre. All it does is cater to greedy publishers and developers. Also, may I ask what made you think subscription models are dead in the first place?
Most F2P titles so far have been complete utter failures and most of the games who wen't F2P recently almost died instantly.
There is not a single F2P title out there that is not to be considered P2W.
Bullshit, L2 didnt die because of the payment model but rather because of GoD which changed the game from what most of us old players loved into some generic carebear crap. Guess why the servers using several year old versions of the software are hugely popular still (and they also use some kind of f2p thing). Also in most games you can win if you put down several thousand dollars, just not legit but at that point people hardly care anymore.
ALL you people saying F2P (complete F2P) is the way to go FAIL!
Name one AAA MMO that is F2P like Planetside will be... And keep in mind it is totally F2P like freaking Battlefield Heros, not GW2... Meaning you don't even need to buy the intial game.. WTH is that?
This game will fail faster from lack of funds then Planetside did, which is a shame.. I can't believe they did this crap...
Team Fortress2 which is totally F2P (like Planetside 2), probably doesn't even have 1/1000th of the content in Planetside 2. It made 2 million from their game shop in 2011.... And keep in mind most people heard about TF2, ask people about Planetside and they will respond with 'What?"
COD:BO2 which is F2P but cost to buy the game, will make more then 2 million in 2 hours..
I can't believe I spent all weekn trying to find a budget bundle on Newegg to play this game, screw that I'll just wait now and save up so I can play this and some of the other titles coming out in 2013...
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Originally posted by Waybackwhen F2P can make more money than subscriptions, thats why.
Oreally?
Show me or your lying.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
City of Heroes, Champions Online, Guild Wars 1 & 2, Aion, Age of Conan if I remember, etc.
STO, DCUO, EQ2, LoTR, NFS:World, etc. are P2W.
Cant speak for CoH or Champions, but GW1 was P2W and so is GW2 , AION and AoC.
Lets see here. GW1 you could buy skills out of the shop.. thats about as P2W as you can get. GW2 exp boosts etc. AION, you can buy EXP boosts and even Instance lockout resets. AoC you can buy gear...
The only Cash shop that isn't P2W is if it is STRICTLY cosmetic, Character Transfers/Race Change/Gender Change/Faction Change. Anything else and it becomes P2W.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Comments
You lack logic. All F2P did to Lineage II was to attract more bots, farmers and P2W fetishists. Even more than the original game had. Also, there is a difference between build in P2W mechanics and illegal purchase of ingame currency. When you first started you didn't have to buy adena by spending real money in the first place. All you had to do was to play the game with a little bit of patience like every honest person did, you choose to cheat instead. Fine, that decision is up to yourself but don't call the game a P2W title without even the slightest bit of knowledge of the game purely based on your own pathetic experience.
Buying adena to get the best gear alone wasn't nearly enough back then, since the game had other important factors to it like for example grades. There has never been gear imbalances in the early years of the game.
PS had a subs fee and this was it's single biggest mistake, look how quickly that game died on it's arse.
Try not to think of PS as an mmo, think of it as an FPS, take an objective look at the game, compare it to the multitude of other FPS's around, would you honestly pay a subs fee to play PS2?
Some would, but not many, this is proven fact by PS1's terrible track record at retaining subs.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
While I personally avoid and hate any microtransaction schemes in mmoRPG's, I also don't think pure subsciption would work in game like Planetside2. I am in beta and it is just shooter. Yeah in persistant map on grand scale and owning bases and instalations gives you and your faction resources but in the end it is just a shooter.
When I am playing it, gameplay feel more similar to Battlefield 3 just on a bigger scale than a world you pay access to.
On the other hand almost all new mmorpg's suffer from the same thing - does not feel like a world.
I would pay a sub for PS2 for sure, for me I find the community in Free to play game horrible...
At least with subscribers, at least the majority are serious about it, and there to enjoy the game not just QQ chat and compare it to x,y,z
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
This is the main argument for a subs fee and it's a good one. The trouble is, if hardly anyone pays the subs fee because the game isn't worth a subs fee, how big will this community be and how happy will they be when the game struggles and they close the servers one by one as happened in PS?
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
As far as I'm aware your totally wrong it is not free to play its buy to play .
Has anyone thought about the idea that the free to play for Planetside 2 is needed to make it shine, the game is centered around human player warfare on an epic scale.
Free to play can deliver that.
Nope it's f2p.. The package you can buy now is for a couple of extra items and Station Cash money to try and get you hooked on the marketplace. It's also set up to where you have to choices: Either grind forever to get the items you want or just throw down real cash to buy everything you need right when you start. That way they can say the marketplace gives no advantages even though it obviously does..
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Just have had a look at the website seems a bit confusing to be honest . To me if theres an upfront fee where you buy the client its buy to play but at the bottom it says its free to play . I'm supprised at this is it is right because earlier this year they were stating it wouldn't be a pay to win game . That to me suggested it would have to be a buy to play model because otherwise it would have to be pay to win under a free to play model for them to make money . I was considering this had it been a GW2 buy to play model but theres no way I'll bother with a pay to win pvp game . Very bad move .
lol thats not true . Lotro and DDO free to play and with two of the best most friendly communitys I've encountered in mmos . WoW subscription based with the worst community I know of in an mmo .
I was pretty excited about the game until recently.. Let's just say there is a rifle you really want.. You can't just work towards that rifle. There may be several rifles you have to grind until you can get it or you can just buy it straight from the store. So Johnny Numbnuts that used the store will be owning you for weeks while you grind. Is it possible for SOE to not destry a game? I don't think so..
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
It´s not.
F2P is an option for people who like to be nickeled and dimed for everything.
The real deal is still subscription for almost every MMO.
And "B2P" is nothing but a lifetime sub, which has been around like forever.
Except lifetime subs are about $200 in most games. B2P is a bit different in that it only costs you the initial purchase fee and that is all.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Agreed this did look good untill now .
Bullshit, L2 didnt die because of the payment model but rather because of GoD which changed the game from what most of us old players loved into some generic carebear crap. Guess why the servers using several year old versions of the software are hugely popular still (and they also use some kind of f2p thing). Also in most games you can win if you put down several thousand dollars, just not legit but at that point people hardly care anymore.
ALL you people saying F2P (complete F2P) is the way to go FAIL!
Name one AAA MMO that is F2P like Planetside will be... And keep in mind it is totally F2P like freaking Battlefield Heros, not GW2... Meaning you don't even need to buy the intial game.. WTH is that?
This game will fail faster from lack of funds then Planetside did, which is a shame.. I can't believe they did this crap...
Team Fortress2 which is totally F2P (like Planetside 2), probably doesn't even have 1/1000th of the content in Planetside 2. It made 2 million from their game shop in 2011.... And keep in mind most people heard about TF2, ask people about Planetside and they will respond with 'What?"
COD:BO2 which is F2P but cost to buy the game, will make more then 2 million in 2 hours..
I can't believe I spent all weekn trying to find a budget bundle on Newegg to play this game, screw that I'll just wait now and save up so I can play this and some of the other titles coming out in 2013...
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Oreally?
Show me or your lying.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Cant speak for CoH or Champions, but GW1 was P2W and so is GW2 , AION and AoC.
Lets see here. GW1 you could buy skills out of the shop.. thats about as P2W as you can get. GW2 exp boosts etc. AION, you can buy EXP boosts and even Instance lockout resets. AoC you can buy gear...
The only Cash shop that isn't P2W is if it is STRICTLY cosmetic, Character Transfers/Race Change/Gender Change/Faction Change. Anything else and it becomes P2W.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo