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No Star Wars Ambiance
Ahnog
Member UncommonPosts: 240
I've repeatedly heard from distractors that SWTOR doesn't have any Star Wars Ambiance. This is true about some parts of the game (I'm thinking of the space combat), but is not true about the majority of the game.
To appreciate the ambiance of the game get a copy of the SWTOR Encyclopedia. This book describes the Old Republic in detail (it is not some cheap guide to the game). Once you read it you will find that BW has filled the game with the ambiance of the Old Republic. The timeline, people, places, the Empire, the Republic, the Mandalorians, the Hutt Cartell all come alive. You understand why BW did what it did with the game.
I think people are thinking of the time frame of the movies and want that kind of feeling about the game, but the Old Republic was a completly different era. The people, the places, the Empire and the Republic are not equal to Luke Skywaker, Darth Vader, the Battle of Yevin, and the Rebellion.
Get into the game, buy this Encyclopedia.
Ahnog
Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.
Comments
Ambiance isn't about the lore and all of the game, its about the feel of the game. The way they handled the classes and much of the storyline just doesnt FEEL like Star Wars. When I play Jedi Academy, I feel like a fresh Jedi going through on missions kicking butt and progressing. When I'm playing Kotor I feel like theres a whole world around me that is unfolding at my hand and I'm part of a bigger story. In Tor... I don't get those feelings. Sure, the story is one of the best in an MMO with personal story (sidemissions are usually very lack luster and tedious to me) but thats like saying I'm the richest guy in my neighborhood because I'm the only one that could afford a new mailbox.
You don't feel like its starwars. Even the graphics of a lightsaber and all just don't give you that feeling. I feel largely its the class system as they made the game as generic as possible to fit that standerd MMO scheme to the point that with a 'furutistic' style game... it feels as generic as it can come for a FANTASY game. Which is quite an achievement specially with Star Wars backing it up. It just falls incredibly short on the ambiance of FEELING like its a Star Wars experience, one particularly you become absorbed into.
Then again I almost feel like your either a publisher or the writer trying to sell a book and the game at the same time based off your post... hmm...
What I liked: The Empire stories -- all of them. A lot of the combat animations -- particularly explosions and lightsabers. Who doesn't like lightsabers?
What I didn't like -- with specific regard to ambiance: The world felt cold and sterile and dead. I felt like I was running through the same tunnels on different planets. It was claustrophobic. I don't believe that is the Star Wars ambiance in any era (cold and dead). The gaps betweeen the stories required too much of what felt like grinding through the lifeless areas to get to the juicy story parts. It became unbearable for me by the mid 30s. The Republic stories seemed so much less interesting to me than the Empire. I couldn't enjoy a lot of the combat because this game seems to require much more paying attention to CDs than others, so I spent a lot of time looking at those.
So no, I feel this game does not live up to the level of the Star Wars IP for various reasons that have been discussed at length in many other threads.
I agree with OP that reading SWTOR Encyclopedia explained a lot why BioWare made the game the way it is. I definitely can immerse in my characters much more now (not that I was not doing that already) and understanding all little pieces of the game is giving it incredible depth .
I am almost (almost:) to the point of re-playing all the classes I already have to 50, so I can look at the world in the light I discovered after reading this book.
I really wish they published it before release LOL.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
The worlds feel too static and lifeless, that is the problem, and no day night cycle.
I hope they fix that with an expansion/update
I always hated night in LOTRO. Night was coming.. I was logging off. I do not care about the day/night cycle at all. LOL.
Edit: I think Ilum night sky is the most awesome thing I've ever seen in MMO though. Also Dromund Kaas is perfect and does not need any changes, Coruscant has enough minature suns to keep the daylight all day long. As of other planets? who knows how they orbit around suns. Maybe they have perpetual day or night on one of their sides. It's not the Earth.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Edit: I think Ilum night sky is the most awesome thing I've ever seen in MMO though. Also Dromund Kaas is perfect and does not need any changes, Coruscant has enough minature suns to keep the daylight all day long. As of other planets? who knows how they orbit around suns. Maybe they have perpetual day or night on one of their sides. It's not the Earth.
You may not care for night in MMOs but obviously, millions do. swtor feels lifeless and dead. Any time you need to kill something, it's always a pack of 3 mobs. You're constantly running around in corridors. It's just this long tunnel to get to 50, with the same recycled textures, long boring metal hallways. Worst MMO I have ever played.
I too, as a KOTOR and ME/DA fan, found this sad when I first got into SW:TOR. However, there is a reason for all this.
How many hub areas did KOTOR/ME have? How large were they? What amount of space did they take up? They were so much smaller than KOTOR as games, maybe 1/100 of the landmass despite having only 1/2 of the development team size. Therefore they could add in flavour quests, they could add in way more background conversations, they could build special props for individual areas, and they could make the world feel more alive and adapt to your actions. Unfortunately SW:TOR simply cannot do that. In an MMO, it is impossible to get that same amount of immersion through story (obviously it can be achieved through other means).
Bioware are fantastic at building ambience, but it is a long and expensive process that involves polishing small areas for months before launch. Sadly SW:TOR is just too big, and I think they tried as best they could.
Cold, dead, sterile corridors, 50m in any direction between trash mobs, no exploration off the beaten track without dying of exhaustion within sight of the prescribed pathway. I have read most of the early period Star Wars books and they felt like living breathing worlds, TOR is just incredibly poor in that respect, it is sad what they have done to an IP such as SW.
I want the greatest story ever told, mine.
That's your perception. Mine is quite different. Glass can be half empty or half full.
It looks like you look for a sandbox game, which SWTOR is not. It is a story told by devs.. but it can be extended and enriched by us - fans if we want to. Lots of fans including me expand this story and it's amazing how this game boosted the fans creativity just looking at fan fiction forum. I posted one of my stories there as well.
http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=98
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
It's not about writing a story, it's about your actions in a virtual world becoming part of the story.
I fail to see how SWTOR is different in this part from other MMOs. All MMOs have "walls" and "restrictions" where you can go... SWTOR planets are huge comparing to other MMOs. Not the biggest (Vanguard in mind) but huge.
You are restricted only by your imagination in any game.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
In other MMOs I get to choose what part of the story I want my character to be part of. Thus, that story becomes my own as other may have picked a different path. In SWTOR I have 1 path and everyone has the same story if they want it or not. In the end we are all the same. Again, a souless game that is cold, dead and sterile.
I see. BioWare did not make a game for your liking then. For me the stories in SWTOR are the best in any MMO I played. I don't feel forced to folow it. I am excited to follow it.
It's just not the right game for you. It's a right game for me. I think that's a fair statement.
Edit. No game satisfy all
We all like different things.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
So on top of a $50 game and a sub, I needed to buy a game guide to enjoy the "ambience" (you're actually talking about lore and history, but ok)? No thank you. If they wanted people to understand something about the game design, they should have included the understanding in the game design.
You make me like charity
In SWTOR if you stand still and just watch the world around you, you can see:
Nothing at all. The NPCs stand still or repeat the same short animation. The mobs mostly stand still, very few of them even move.
If WoW if you stand still and just watch the world around you, you can see:
Mobs wandering around, wolves attacking small critters, constant battles between npcs in some parts of the map, guards patrolling cities, and some npcs switching places, talking to each other, and doing animations that make you want to just stop by and watch. Or at least read the text from your chatlog when you have time to find out what they were doing.
In SWTOR if you're about to do something cool:
You'll interact with the object, then there's a cinematic sequence you can't control
In WoW if you're about to do something cool:
You keep your key on blink -button (as a mage) when Garrosh Hellscream is holding your character over a huge drop in Stonetalon Mountains ready to press the key and react in case he drops you. On second time you'll know he won't, though.
In SWTOR if you go exploring:
You'll hug the invisible walls and throughly search every nook and canny for the one stat increasing object that's too valuable to miss. On your second playthrough you already know where those are and it's more like playing fex-ex than exploring.
In WoW if you go exploring:
You can go to an intresting looking place and might discover a chest or rare creature, both will give you exp and often some cool loot. Or you can opt out of going and get equipment and exp from some other activities. You're not forced to do it to optimize your character's power. On your second playthrough you'll find other things because rare mobs and chests spawn so randomly
In SWTOR the ambience is like plastic. The game completely fails to give illusion that anything intresting could happen or be discovered in the world.
I agree. The game really feels like you're just moving from one stage and set piece to another, with all the lighting just right, and all the actors in their places. Just go in and play your part, then head over to Studio Lot B32 for your cutscene.
There is no feeling of persistence.
You make me like charity
While the stories were interesting most of the time, excessive questing feels out of place, as part of the ambiance (feel) of the game.
Quests are pretty much hand holding, do this, OK now do this. Good, good, now do this .. "You've saved us from disaster, thank you!"
There are some nice alternative ways to do quests, for instance, you could be instructed to go into the enemies base and kill 20 soldiers... or you could ask the NPC if there was another way to accomplish a mission, in which you might be an alternate solution, maybe disguise yourself as a cleaner droid and sneak inside to corrupt a data center. Quests like this though in SWTOR are extremely few and far between.
Streamlined questing worked well for WoW, since it was designed around Blizzard's RTS game, having guided quests, new quests, and bonus quests all alone the way, with each quest clearly outlined as to exactly what must be done.
In Star Wars though, it seems like there should be less hand holding with guided streamlined quests, and instead having primarily major campaign mission objectives. The method should be left up to the player (like how the majority of the movies were). How you save the universe rests solely in the players personal experiences. I guess it just comes back to more sandbox needed.
Just some thoughts. Having less quests and more increased interactivity with NPC's (using the same amount of voice overs) would have been a plus (and would have also helped solve problems with forced cutscenes and continually removing players from the game world during NPC interaction).
I'm not sure if this came off the right way, but bottom line - thousands of scripted quests worked well for WoW, but was a little weird for Star Wars. Any significance of this is of little difference now though, it's too late to alter core architecture.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
This.
It feels like medicore generic fantasy MMO like gazzillion others, ambiance included.
Thats what you get when "WoW is the norm and you are stupid if you deviate". That and F2P.
exact same way I felt playing game is just missing the true feeling of playing in a star wars universe as many other games were able to capture much better.. oh also if you are a real star wars nut like myself I suggest the book i linked below over the one in the OP.... also for me take a look at what star was feeling jedi combat is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk05rDCH6p0 and then swtor jedi combat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y3bFXTJAuc.. and if you don't think the force unleashed style would work in a MMO just take a look at Blade & Soul combat vids this sort of extravagent combat would work just fine in an MMO
http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Star-Wars-Encyclopedia/dp/0345477634/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1351514050&sr=8-4&keywords=star+wars+encyclopedia
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
SWTOR totally lacks the sense of immersion you normally get in SW games. From a visual point of view, its like running around on a painting, the world is dead. Add to that the narrow and invisible corridors you have to run in, its just not fun.
And, SWTOR is about being told a story, not to be a part of it, let alone make your own.
For me SWTOR is the only MMO that actually has immersion. I have to try TSW, as I've heard it has great story too.
You see empty world. I see plenty NPCs. Going about their lifes. Like any other game I played. There are roamers NPCs there are static NPCs. Nothing really out of normal, maybe except this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxO88Zou7Sc Some have conversations some don't. Pretty standard imo. SWTOR is not overcrowded with MOBs and I love it for it. I hate games that you can't go 5 meters withough getting in fight. It's more realistic than many other games. Hoth seems empty and it supposed to be.. it's a damn ice planet. Nothing is supposed to survive there LOL. It's awesome that it feels so desolate.
I hate exhaustion zones and I agree that they should get rid of them. But it does not make the game less enjoyable.
This game has one of the best character animations I've ever seen. That's what makes me immersed in my character. When my Chiss Warrior dances it's the most sensual, sexy dance I've ever seen in any game. That's makes me immersed in game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUMS9w5pxus
You guys complain that lightsabers suck in this game. Well I guess it's a matter of opinion. I think they are great. The animations for Jedi are different than for Sith. Jedi have more finesse moves. Sith are more sheer power guys. You can see it and you can feel it. my Jedi Knight plays with his saber like with instrument, my sith warrior charges with it like a wild animal. That's what makes me immersed in my characters.
In the end, it's all about you and what you like. I love SWTOR as it is. I support it and I will support it, so it can improve and become better then it is today. Many people will do the same.
Thanks
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Except for one thing, I agree with you. I love day and night cycles, BUT (a BIG but), they must make sense for the environment I'm in. Like you said, it's not Earth. And Dromand Kaas is my favorite place in the game.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Visually, TOR might have been "a really nice oil painting", but paintings are only good to look at, not play in.
Most expensive failed P2P MMO (or any comp game, for that matter) ever.
Dromand Kaas is a great looking "dark" style city. I can day / night cycles making the game more immersive as well thou.