With the news coming tomorrow, this becomes entertaining

Cleffy

Right now good teams outsource, they don't hire up and fire later.  Its a bad practice that fluctuates talent.  Having several asset contract companies at your disposal helps gain the staff when you need it without the distastful layoff after an expansion or release.

itgrowls

Originally posted by mudcakes
Lars Butler Schools Star Wars on Layoffs

>> He points to the fact that Trion's Rift gets frequent significant content updates, whereas The Old Republic's consumers are left wanting. 

"You have to be able to keep people interested. The key about an online game is that it's a live service. If you make it more like a packaged goods game, people will stay about as long as they stay with a packaged goods game."<<

 

Even tho I do believe that subscription does play a role in the amount of revenue one does NOT receive due to the restrictions placed on people with the subscription only as well as the Freemium (heavily restricted forced subscription model presented as free to play tho it's nowhere near that).

Trion has the best track record of any Sub only mmo on delivering content and most of it being based off the bloated revenue from the subscriptions they hold rather then charging via DLC for every little piece like most companies have been known to to lately. (Like Blizzard's own MoP being charged anything is actually an insult because the players who stayed subscribed to the game the entire year they had to wait for this expac to be finished had already paid for the game six times over)

 

itgrowls

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by menrin

Turbine. May not seem like it but their profits skyrocketed once they implement their F2P model.

 

Got any proof?

They did initially yes, however with each new expac they have lost more and more players, this last one was a slap in the face at a wopping $70 players all but laughed in the face of the devs when they put forth the price. Their model restricts new players much like SWTOR's soon to be released Freemium model, it won't go over well. They too will have an initial return which if EA/BW continues their current behavior they will brag about for about six months with the same exact figure much like they did with the "active accounts". The point is, how many of those players were actually new additions per expac. Look at how much it costs to buy each of the zones to level in via LOTRO's store (not subscription just the store) and then remember how they require you to purchase zones no one levels in anymore for just the dungeons but they don't separate that as dungeon / content as separate purchases, and then look at the cost for purchasing many of the expacs to catchup. It all adds up to ALOT. much more then what most new players wish to pay.

If you have played for years, you're fine if you want to spend the $70 on the expac, but new players get the shaft.

sancher36

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by menrin

Turbine. May not seem like it but their profits skyrocketed once they implement their F2P model.

 

Got any proof?

They did initially yes, however with each new expac they have lost more and more players, this last one was a slap in the face at a wopping $70 players all but laughed in the face of the devs when they put forth the price. Their model restricts new players much like SWTOR's soon to be released Freemium model, it won't go over well. They too will have an initial return which if EA/BW continues their current behavior they will brag about for about six months with the same exact figure much like they did with the "active accounts". The point is, how many of those players were actually new additions per expac. Look at how much it costs to buy each of the zones to level in via LOTRO's store (not subscription just the store) and then remember how they require you to purchase zones no one levels in anymore for just the dungeons but they don't separate that as dungeon / content as separate purchases, and then look at the cost for purchasing many of the expacs to catchup. It all adds up to ALOT. much more then what most new players wish to pay.

If you have played for years, you're fine if you want to spend the $70 on the expac, but new players get the shaft.

I have recently returned in the past 2 months and I'm grinding turbine points to unlock things I find useful in the game. I also don't think $70 is too much to ask considering once you got it you do not really need to part with money if you don't want to. 

f0dell54

Originally posted by sancher36

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by menrin

Turbine. May not seem like it but their profits skyrocketed once they implement their F2P model.

 

Got any proof?

They did initially yes, however with each new expac they have lost more and more players, this last one was a slap in the face at a wopping $70 players all but laughed in the face of the devs when they put forth the price. Their model restricts new players much like SWTOR's soon to be released Freemium model, it won't go over well. They too will have an initial return which if EA/BW continues their current behavior they will brag about for about six months with the same exact figure much like they did with the "active accounts". The point is, how many of those players were actually new additions per expac. Look at how much it costs to buy each of the zones to level in via LOTRO's store (not subscription just the store) and then remember how they require you to purchase zones no one levels in anymore for just the dungeons but they don't separate that as dungeon / content as separate purchases, and then look at the cost for purchasing many of the expacs to catchup. It all adds up to ALOT. much more then what most new players wish to pay.

If you have played for years, you're fine if you want to spend the $70 on the expac, but new players get the shaft.

I have recently returned in the past 2 months and I'm grinding turbine points to unlock things I find useful in the game. I also don't think $70 is too much to ask considering once you got it you do not really need to part with money if you don't want to. 

 

For an expansion? Damn!

 

Alright Mr. Money Bags I don't know what you're smoking but I want some.

strangiato2112

Originally posted by William12

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by William12

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by William12

 

 

When you decide the staffing for a new project or expansion to an existing game you obviously have to hire outside people to come in and do some of the work.  Well what happens when that new project is done ?  Them outside people are no longer needed and get LAYED OFF.   It's how the business works you can spend your entire career working in it and never stay with one company.

 

Um, no thats not how it works.  When your expansion team is done with the expansion guess what?  they start on the next one.  

I see you have never worked in the industry.  You're contracted to work on the expansion and layed off after unless you're offered another position within the company either on the same game or a new project.  THIS is how expansions are made THIS is why trion was able to push content patches while working on the expansion only a small number of the actual rift developers worked on the expansion early on and as it gets closer more are moved to it and the others are layed OFF this is how it works.

If your contract is up then you arent laid off, you just simply arent offered another contract.

Almost everything released in the last year in Rift, with the exception of one medium sized raid and a small sliver, has used existing assets.  That is why they have been able to push out patches while working on the expansion.

And even if they did hire all these extra people, taught them how they do their programming and all that...it is a *very* bad sign that they wouldnt keep them.  The game needs 1-50 content in the worst way, surely they could keep these people on to work on that?

Contract expired/fired same thing its them laying someone off and not retaining the employee and thats how the press sees it.   The team that maintains the game rarely works on the expansion early on.  The ONLY people who would are the coders because they're familar with the game and how its coded almost everything else would be from soneone hired to come in and do the work.   THIS IS HOW MMO expansions are made you're obviously not familar with ti.  The only company I know of that has existing devs make expansions is SOE because they're cheap and dont profit from the expansions becasue the games are so old.  I have first hand knowledge of how SOE does it and how another company I wont name does it and SOE is in the minority here they bring interns and the current games staff to make the expansion part of the reason is EQ and EQ 2 rarely have real content patches and anything they do monthly is simply bug fixes or content tuning.

 

On the topic of them knowing how the game works.  When you hire a developer you get a resume a resume that shows how much work they have working with the game engine you're using I.E CryEngine, HeroEngine and others you would OBVIOUSLY not hire people who have never worked with the engine you're using.   So unless you're like SOE and designed your own engine you would hire outside the company.  

Maybe the reason SoE was different was because SoE was always woring on an expansion?  Things have been different the last couple of years, as the layoffs crippled their ability to produce quality expansions. However if you look at DoV as it stands now the amount of content is pretty huge.  They just had to adjust how they were doing things because they didnt have the assets to do otherwise.  now that they are expanding the staff again hopefully things get better on track.

EQ2 has pretty consistently had regular updates throughout its history that have indeed added content, but outside of all the raid content added its first year (Hate, Fear, Sky) EQ1 has never needed to use the blizzard update model. their expansions were aways content rich and large enough so that 95% of the population never ran out of anything to do, so patches every 3 months to add content were just not necessary.

I greatly prefer the SoE model of yearly expansions.  While there have been a few duds over the years (GoW, DoF, AoD) for the most part they have delivered.

 

And there *is* a difference between hiring and contracting, unless the MMO industry works different than other industries.  If you contract someone to do a specific job, when they are done with it they arent 'fired' or 'laid off', they have just fulfilled their contract.  Maybe MMO industry runs differently because of time uncertainty?  If someone has hired to work on an expansion do they get health benefits?  Unemployment after its done?

 

Xiaoki

---

Originally posted by William12
  THIS IS HOW MMO expansions are made you're obviously not familar with ti.  The only company I know of that has existing devs make expansions is SOE because they're cheap and dont profit from the expansions becasue the games are so old.

---

Blizzard does it as well with WoW.

With WoW the next expansion goes into production as soon as the current expansion is released.

But you already knew this right? Because you are SOOOO familiar with the MMO industry.

Blizzard can afford a full time WoW expansion team because they are successful. Trion has to bring in work for hire contractors because they dont know when or even if there will be another Rift expansion.

Papadam

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by menrin

Turbine. May not seem like it but their profits skyrocketed once they implement their F2P model.

 

Got any proof?

They did initially yes, however with each new expac they have lost more and more players, this last one was a slap in the face at a wopping $70 players all but laughed in the face of the devs when they put forth the price. Their model restricts new players much like SWTOR's soon to be released Freemium model, it won't go over well. They too will have an initial return which if EA/BW continues their current behavior they will brag about for about six months with the same exact figure much like they did with the "active accounts". The point is, how many of those players were actually new additions per expac. Look at how much it costs to buy each of the zones to level in via LOTRO's store (not subscription just the store) and then remember how they require you to purchase zones no one levels in anymore for just the dungeons but they don't separate that as dungeon / content as separate purchases, and then look at the cost for purchasing many of the expacs to catchup. It all adds up to ALOT. much more then what most new players wish to pay.

If you have played for years, you're fine if you want to spend the $70 on the expac, but new players get the shaft.

Not on tpic but funny that you dont mention that the "legendary edition" costs $70, the normal expansion is $40. It can also be bought with TP which means subscribers (and others) can get it for free. 

But I guess that counts as proof...

On topic: I hope Trion will recover, sems like a nice company.

niceguy3978

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by menrin

Turbine. May not seem like it but their profits skyrocketed once they implement their F2P model.

 

Got any proof?

They did initially yes, however with each new expac they have lost more and more players, this last one was a slap in the face at a wopping $70 players all but laughed in the face of the devs when they put forth the price. Their model restricts new players much like SWTOR's soon to be released Freemium model, it won't go over well. They too will have an initial return which if EA/BW continues their current behavior they will brag about for about six months with the same exact figure much like they did with the "active accounts". The point is, how many of those players were actually new additions per expac. Look at how much it costs to buy each of the zones to level in via LOTRO's store (not subscription just the store) and then remember how they require you to purchase zones no one levels in anymore for just the dungeons but they don't separate that as dungeon / content as separate purchases, and then look at the cost for purchasing many of the expacs to catchup. It all adds up to ALOT. much more then what most new players wish to pay.

If you have played for years, you're fine if you want to spend the $70 on the expac, but new players get the shaft.

It didn't cost 70$ for the xpac.  The xpac was 40$ or you could get "deluxe" editions like every other xpac the most expensive version of which was 70$.