I remember reading somewhere that you can only access your own factions PvE map, and then the shared PvP map Cyrodiil.
Can anyone confirm this? As a big fan of huge open worlds in mmorpgs this might be a deal breaker for me. The game looks good and fun and different than your average traditional mmorpg, but limited open world access absolutely devastates my immersion and makes the game sound incredibly "gamey" instead of a massive world.
As far as I know, there is no physical barrier, something like an impassable mountain, restricting access but you will encounter hostility when you cross into enemy borders. So while nothing is stopping you from exploring the world, some places will be very hard/impossible to reach.
I must admit, I hate the enforced restrictions and while I do understand why it makes sense 'when at war' to have restricted movement but why not make the choice to opt in/opt out of the war or at least delay it.
From just a logistics POV how do these nations conduct any trade if they can only trade with 2 of the 9 area's. Also, does it mean that if I am playing the elven nations I will NEVER encounter an Orc or just that I will never encounter an ORC player in normal PvE?
Fine, have sides to the conflict, make them racial in nature, but don't have black and while restrictions in place. Let us wander the world, let us work out who to fight for, let us make a CHOICE based on in game experiences rather then simply by chosing a race at character creation.
the pve maps are faction restricted yes. cyrodill (the owpvp zone) is a shared map and is roughly the size of Oblivian.
That's way too small for a MMO. Oblivion was a single payer game map, not a MMO. Way too small. This is a major concern.
For the dedicated PvP zone it isnt that small, if the normal leveling areas are that small then we will have something to worry about
Dude/Lady
I has only 1 server system, and three factions. A zone for PvP the size of Oblivion is small in MMO terms. Let's be real here.
I remember reading somewhere that you can only access your own factions PvE map, and then the shared PvP map Cyrodiil.
Can anyone confirm this? As a big fan of huge open worlds in mmorpgs this might be a deal breaker for me. The game looks good and fun and different than your average traditional mmorpg, but limited open world access absolutely devastates my immersion and makes the game sound incredibly "gamey" instead of a massive world.
As far as I know, there is no physical barrier, something like an impassable mountain, restricting access but you will encounter hostility when you cross into enemy borders. So while nothing is stopping you from exploring the world, some places will be very hard/impossible to reach.
I must admit, I hate the enforced restrictions and while I do understand why it makes sense 'when at war' to have restricted movement but why not make the choice to opt in/opt out of the war or at least delay it.
From just a logistics POV how do these nations conduct any trade if they can only trade with 2 of the 9 area's. Also, does it mean that if I am playing the elven nations I will NEVER encounter an Orc or just that I will never encounter an ORC player in normal PvE?
Fine, have sides to the conflict, make them racial in nature, but don't have black and while restrictions in place. Let us wander the world, let us work out who to fight for, let us make a CHOICE based on in game experiences rather then simply by chosing a race at character creation.
the pve maps are faction restricted yes. cyrodill (the owpvp zone) is a shared map and is roughly the size of Oblivian.
That's way too small for a MMO. Oblivion was a single payer game map, not a MMO. Way too small. This is a major concern.
how big Cyrodiil feels will partly depend on how many people they put on the map. the more people the smaller it will feel. Oblivian is 1/4 the size of Azeroth. (roughly) that's a pretty big pvp zone, in my eyes.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Daggerfall convenant play in high rock, hammerfell and cyrodil Ebonheart pact play in skyrim, Morrowind and cyrodil Aldemeri dominion play in summerset isle, Valenwood and cyrodil.
All provinces are roughly the size of oblivion (e.g. skyrim will be a bit smaller in the mmo)
Blackmarsh and elswyr are held back for expansion (and probably because the later is rumoured to be location of tes 6)
Can you link where they say the PvE area will be as small as oblivion? Hope its not the case as oblivions map is tiny compared to most mmo's
I remember reading somewhere that you can only access your own factions PvE map, and then the shared PvP map Cyrodiil.
Can anyone confirm this? As a big fan of huge open worlds in mmorpgs this might be a deal breaker for me. The game looks good and fun and different than your average traditional mmorpg, but limited open world access absolutely devastates my immersion and makes the game sound incredibly "gamey" instead of a massive world.
As far as I know, there is no physical barrier, something like an impassable mountain, restricting access but you will encounter hostility when you cross into enemy borders. So while nothing is stopping you from exploring the world, some places will be very hard/impossible to reach.
I must admit, I hate the enforced restrictions and while I do understand why it makes sense 'when at war' to have restricted movement but why not make the choice to opt in/opt out of the war or at least delay it.
From just a logistics POV how do these nations conduct any trade if they can only trade with 2 of the 9 area's. Also, does it mean that if I am playing the elven nations I will NEVER encounter an Orc or just that I will never encounter an ORC player in normal PvE?
Fine, have sides to the conflict, make them racial in nature, but don't have black and while restrictions in place. Let us wander the world, let us work out who to fight for, let us make a CHOICE based on in game experiences rather then simply by chosing a race at character creation.
the pve maps are faction restricted yes. cyrodill (the owpvp zone) is a shared map and is roughly the size of Oblivian.
That's way too small for a MMO. Oblivion was a single payer game map, not a MMO. Way too small. This is a major concern.
For the dedicated PvP zone it isnt that small, if the normal leveling areas are that small then we will have something to worry about
Dude/Lady
I has only 1 server system, and three factions. A zone for PvP the size of Oblivion is small in MMO terms. Let's be real here.
We wont ALL be on the same cyrodil tho, each person/guild gets assigned a campaign that they are locked to, so yes we will all be on the same server but there will be lots of different versions of cyrodil
Go to this website and check it out, they have everything they released about the game so far and the site owner was at the studio for the hands on test of the pre alpha game and gives a pretty long write up about it all.
Originally posted by Kuinn Meh, have to wait and see I guess how it exactly plays out. I really hope there wont be hard barriers around the faction areas. I actually like factions, and classes, but the one thing that has been at the core of TES games which is one of my favourite features has always been the free exploration of everything as long as I find a way to get there.
Originally posted by Kuinn Meh, have to wait and see I guess how it exactly plays out. I really hope there wont be hard barriers around the faction areas. I actually like factions, and classes, but the one thing that has been at the core of TES games which is one of my favourite features has always been the free exploration of everything as long as I find a way to get there.
Aww dang, what a fail before it even begins. Shame on them for killing the main part of what makes TES good.
There were borders to morrowind, skyrim etc in oblivion that you couldnt get to (unless you modded it), didnt bother me then doubt it will in this game
Originally posted by Kuinn Meh, have to wait and see I guess how it exactly plays out. I really hope there wont be hard barriers around the faction areas. I actually like factions, and classes, but the one thing that has been at the core of TES games which is one of my favourite features has always been the free exploration of everything as long as I find a way to get there.
Aww dang, what a fail before it even begins. Shame on them for killing the main part of what makes TES good.
There were borders to morrowind, skyrim etc in oblivion that you couldnt get to (unless you modded it), didnt bother me then doubt it will in this game
There were borders because that was all that was included in the game.
You could go anywhere in the game world you wanted on any character. Should be the same in ESO. In Skyrim you weren't banned from Winterhold if you were with the Imperials and you weren't banned from Solitude if you were a Stormcloak. And you could be neutral if you wanted, not even participate in the war. Best of all worlds.
what people are forgetting is cyridiil isn't going to be just a flat zone with siege warfare and huge zergs running from keep to keep.
there's going to be dungeons to fight in as well, comparable to oblivion as well. yes it would be small for an mmo if that was the only zone you had to play and explore in.
we will see how it is implemented and how fun it is but i don't get the feeling that it will be too small at all.
Been thinking more about this and still greatly dislike how they have designed the factions. I don't have a problem with having the factions as they are but the whole faction = race / race = faction thing is really a weak design choice.
I just don't understand why you don't start, play the game and when you want, choose a faction. For those that want to play merchants or traders the entire concept is shut off from character creation. If you don't want to get involved in the conflict you are not given an option. If you want to play a particular race and side with another faction you don't have the option.
It is the lack of options that really hurts the game in my eyes. If I want to create a Breton merchant who lives in Solitude...sorry, impossible. If I want to be a Nord who lives and works in the Vallenwood where a long time friend lives, sorry, impossible. Want to marry a really hot Dunmer and have kids? Sorry, you are Bosmer and cannot go into her faction lands and she cannot go into yours.
The restrictions are done purely for simplification, not for great gameplay reasons. Especially when you realise that these restrictions have to be coded in and are not the default position. And that is really just bad design if you ask me.
Create a character > Choose a race > Choose a starting location > Play the game > Choose a home
Optional > Choose a faction > Fight for your faction > Restrict yourself to your new faction homelands
Man, I wish the zone restriction on Wpvp was removed, with the intended zone just having more incentive to pvp. I just don't like the idea of standing next to an enemy and not being able to attack.
Originally posted by bcbully Man, I wish the zone restriction on Wpvp was removed, with the intended zone just having more incentive to pvp. I just don't like the idea of standing next to an enemy and not being able to attack.
Maybe I am missing something but....
We cannot enter other faction lands. So the only location we can share with another faction is Cryodill...and isn't that the PvP zone?
How/where would you be able to stand next to a rival faction?
Been thinking more about this and still greatly dislike how they have designed the factions. I don't have a problem with having the factions as they are but the whole faction = race / race = faction thing is really a weak design choice.
I just don't understand why you don't start, play the game and when you want, choose a faction. For those that want to play merchants or traders the entire concept is shut off from character creation. If you don't want to get involved in the conflict you are not given an option. If you want to play a particular race and side with another faction you don't have the option.
It is the lack of options that really hurts the game in my eyes. If I want to create a Breton merchant who lives in Solitude...sorry, impossible. If I want to be a Nord who lives and works in the Vallenwood where a long time friend lives, sorry, impossible. Want to marry a really hot Dunmer and have kids? Sorry, you are Bosmer and cannot go into her faction lands and she cannot go into yours.
The restrictions are done purely for simplification, not for great gameplay reasons. Especially when you realise that these restrictions have to be coded in and are not the default position. And that is really just bad design if you ask me.
Create a character > Choose a race > Choose a starting location > Play the game > Choose a home
Optional > Choose a faction > Fight for your faction > Restrict yourself to your new faction homelands
it's to promote community and pride within the factions. which is the main theme of the game. it worked in daoc and they are trying to get it work in teso.
Originally posted by bcbully Man, I wish the zone restriction on Wpvp was removed, with the intended zone just having more incentive to pvp. I just don't like the idea of standing next to an enemy and not being able to attack.
Maybe I am missing something but....
We cannot enter other faction lands. So the only location we can share with another faction is Cryodill...and isn't that the PvP zone?
How/where would you be able to stand next to a rival faction?
im not sure what bcbully is going on about. the only place you will see other races/factions is in cyrodiil. the pvp zone.
I remember reading somewhere that you can only access your own factions PvE map, and then the shared PvP map Cyrodiil.
Can anyone confirm this? As a big fan of huge open worlds in mmorpgs this might be a deal breaker for me. The game looks good and fun and different than your average traditional mmorpg, but limited open world access absolutely devastates my immersion and makes the game sound incredibly "gamey" instead of a massive world.
As far as I know, there is no physical barrier, something like an impassable mountain, restricting access but you will encounter hostility when you cross into enemy borders. So while nothing is stopping you from exploring the world, some places will be very hard/impossible to reach.
I don't think this true, i'm pretty sure other faction areas are locked off, you can't enter them.
I remember reading somewhere that you can only access your own factions PvE map, and then the shared PvP map Cyrodiil.
Can anyone confirm this? As a big fan of huge open worlds in mmorpgs this might be a deal breaker for me. The game looks good and fun and different than your average traditional mmorpg, but limited open world access absolutely devastates my immersion and makes the game sound incredibly "gamey" instead of a massive world.
As far as I know, there is no physical barrier, something like an impassable mountain, restricting access but you will encounter hostility when you cross into enemy borders. So while nothing is stopping you from exploring the world, some places will be very hard/impossible to reach.
I don't think this true, i'm pretty sure other faction areas are locked off, you can't enter them.
Yeah I am getting that impression too from reading other threads. That is indeed a shame, really annoys me when game mechics are used to impose limitations when there is a perfectly normal solution available. Don't restrict peoples access to area's until they choose a faction, then make all other factions hostile. That makes sense in a 'game design' way as well as a 'normal' way. Faction decides limitations, actively chosen by the player, and till then you can roam the world.
I guess they just want to FORCE people to choose a faction rather then give us a CHOICE. Tie the race into faction and you are forced to choose a side. Give players the option to choose a faction and people might not. I hope it is not just to force artificial numbers into the PvP side of things.
We have 100,000 people in each faction...yeah but only 10,000 wanted to be part of it, the rest had no choice....
I remember reading somewhere that you can only access your own factions PvE map, and then the shared PvP map Cyrodiil.
Can anyone confirm this? As a big fan of huge open worlds in mmorpgs this might be a deal breaker for me. The game looks good and fun and different than your average traditional mmorpg, but limited open world access absolutely devastates my immersion and makes the game sound incredibly "gamey" instead of a massive world.
As far as I know, there is no physical barrier, something like an impassable mountain, restricting access but you will encounter hostility when you cross into enemy borders. So while nothing is stopping you from exploring the world, some places will be very hard/impossible to reach.
I don't think this true, i'm pretty sure other faction areas are locked off, you can't enter them.
Yeah I am getting that impression too from reading other threads. That is indeed a shame, really annoys me when game mechics are used to impose limitations when there is a perfectly normal solution available. Don't restrict peoples access to area's until they choose a faction, then make all other factions hostile. That makes sense in a 'game design' way as well as a 'normal' way. Faction decides limitations, actively chosen by the player, and till then you can roam the world.
I guess they just want to FORCE people to choose a faction rather then give us a CHOICE. Tie the race into faction and you are forced to choose a side. Give players the option to choose a faction and people might not. I hope it is not just to force artificial numbers into the PvP side of things.
We have 100,000 people in each faction...yeah but only 10,000 wanted to be part of it, the rest had no choice....
Choosing factions in a open world 3 faction PvP game never works out well. Look at Rift and GW2.
People will jump ship and go where the winners are, rather than sticking to your faction. Forced factions inspire more faction pride.
More examples of them hammering Elder Scrolls into a DAoC form, without regard to previous history or world building or particular strengths. The factions are being formed due to geographical location, and include groups that have violently opposed one another in lore for thousands of years. For simplicity of design, they had to be retconned into some sort of alliance.
Don't have a particular complaint about the way the mechanics of it work, just that they are squeezing out lots of the settings' flavor. Folks who don't care about Dunmer, Nord and Argonians hating one another through most of the other Elder Scrolls eras won't have a problem with it. But then why use Elder Scrolls at all?
Well, I am sure it sounded good in the boardroom four years ago. There is a certain utility about not having to make up all the names and backgrounds, even if you will be gerrymandering the hell out of them. Resuse of art assets probably helps a lot too.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Choosing factions in a open world 3 faction PvP game never works out well. Look at Rift and GW2.
People will jump ship and go where the winners are, rather than sticking to your faction. Forced factions inspire more faction pride.
If I want to jump ship I will create another character....hell I can have 1 for each zone...in fact if I want to explore the entire world I am FORCED to have 3 characters, 1 in each zone.
In stead of FORCING us into a faction at the start, make faction CHOICE very serious business. Make it so that the CHOICE is something not to be taken lightly. The way it was done in Skyrim was perfect really. Just translate that across. Start neutral, do your thing, if you want to get involved in the war, CHOOSE your side.
The key words here are FORCE and CHOOSE. A bog standard game design by numbers FORCES you to do things. A TES game lets you CHOOSE.
If I play the game as a Breton and feel like joining forces with the Nords....shit out of luck. According the the game design NO Breton can ever side with the Nords. No Breton can enter the lands of Skyrim. No Breton can own a house in Skyrim, or have a job in Skyrim, or take a holiday in Skyrim. Why? Because they CHOSE to fight for Highrock? NO, because if you are a Breton you have ZERO CHOICE in who you fight for.
I can certainly understand the whole Lets try and re-create the PvP found in DAOC thing. I personally never got into the game but people praise the PvP. But this is NOT DAOC, never will be and never should be. Lets move forward in game design and realise the limitations of past years due to hardware and processing power are gone and are no longer excuses for antiquated or shoddy design. FORCING 3 faction PvP doesn't stop Imbalance anyway, people will simply create a character in another faction. So design, good design imho, should be about looking at the problem and coming up with a solution. No sticking to a design that is inherently flawed and saying 'fuck it, DAOC PvP was good so lets copy that'.
Comments
Dude/Lady
I has only 1 server system, and three factions. A zone for PvP the size of Oblivion is small in MMO terms. Let's be real here.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
how big Cyrodiil feels will partly depend on how many people they put on the map. the more people the smaller it will feel. Oblivian is 1/4 the size of Azeroth. (roughly) that's a pretty big pvp zone, in my eyes.
Its a sandbox action game, better than the first, still not great tho imo. Has got a huge map tho
We wont ALL be on the same cyrodil tho, each person/guild gets assigned a campaign that they are locked to, so yes we will all be on the same server but there will be lots of different versions of cyrodil
Go to this website and check it out, they have everything they released about the game so far and the site owner was at the studio for the hands on test of the pre alpha game and gives a pretty long write up about it all.
Tamriel Foundry
Aww dang, what a fail before it even begins. Shame on them for killing the main part of what makes TES good.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
There were borders to morrowind, skyrim etc in oblivion that you couldnt get to (unless you modded it), didnt bother me then doubt it will in this game
There were borders because that was all that was included in the game.
You could go anywhere in the game world you wanted on any character. Should be the same in ESO. In Skyrim you weren't banned from Winterhold if you were with the Imperials and you weren't banned from Solitude if you were a Stormcloak. And you could be neutral if you wanted, not even participate in the war. Best of all worlds.
what people are forgetting is cyridiil isn't going to be just a flat zone with siege warfare and huge zergs running from keep to keep.
there's going to be dungeons to fight in as well, comparable to oblivion as well. yes it would be small for an mmo if that was the only zone you had to play and explore in.
we will see how it is implemented and how fun it is but i don't get the feeling that it will be too small at all.
Been thinking more about this and still greatly dislike how they have designed the factions. I don't have a problem with having the factions as they are but the whole faction = race / race = faction thing is really a weak design choice.
I just don't understand why you don't start, play the game and when you want, choose a faction. For those that want to play merchants or traders the entire concept is shut off from character creation. If you don't want to get involved in the conflict you are not given an option. If you want to play a particular race and side with another faction you don't have the option.
It is the lack of options that really hurts the game in my eyes. If I want to create a Breton merchant who lives in Solitude...sorry, impossible. If I want to be a Nord who lives and works in the Vallenwood where a long time friend lives, sorry, impossible. Want to marry a really hot Dunmer and have kids? Sorry, you are Bosmer and cannot go into her faction lands and she cannot go into yours.
The restrictions are done purely for simplification, not for great gameplay reasons. Especially when you realise that these restrictions have to be coded in and are not the default position. And that is really just bad design if you ask me.
Create a character > Choose a race > Choose a starting location > Play the game > Choose a home
Optional > Choose a faction > Fight for your faction > Restrict yourself to your new faction homelands
Maybe I am missing something but....
We cannot enter other faction lands. So the only location we can share with another faction is Cryodill...and isn't that the PvP zone?
How/where would you be able to stand next to a rival faction?
it's to promote community and pride within the factions. which is the main theme of the game. it worked in daoc and they are trying to get it work in teso.
im not sure what bcbully is going on about. the only place you will see other races/factions is in cyrodiil. the pvp zone.
I don't think this true, i'm pretty sure other faction areas are locked off, you can't enter them.
Yeah I am getting that impression too from reading other threads. That is indeed a shame, really annoys me when game mechics are used to impose limitations when there is a perfectly normal solution available. Don't restrict peoples access to area's until they choose a faction, then make all other factions hostile. That makes sense in a 'game design' way as well as a 'normal' way. Faction decides limitations, actively chosen by the player, and till then you can roam the world.
I guess they just want to FORCE people to choose a faction rather then give us a CHOICE. Tie the race into faction and you are forced to choose a side. Give players the option to choose a faction and people might not. I hope it is not just to force artificial numbers into the PvP side of things.
We have 100,000 people in each faction...yeah but only 10,000 wanted to be part of it, the rest had no choice....
Choosing factions in a open world 3 faction PvP game never works out well. Look at Rift and GW2.
People will jump ship and go where the winners are, rather than sticking to your faction. Forced factions inspire more faction pride.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
More examples of them hammering Elder Scrolls into a DAoC form, without regard to previous history or world building or particular strengths. The factions are being formed due to geographical location, and include groups that have violently opposed one another in lore for thousands of years. For simplicity of design, they had to be retconned into some sort of alliance.
Don't have a particular complaint about the way the mechanics of it work, just that they are squeezing out lots of the settings' flavor. Folks who don't care about Dunmer, Nord and Argonians hating one another through most of the other Elder Scrolls eras won't have a problem with it. But then why use Elder Scrolls at all?
Well, I am sure it sounded good in the boardroom four years ago. There is a certain utility about not having to make up all the names and backgrounds, even if you will be gerrymandering the hell out of them. Resuse of art assets probably helps a lot too.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
If I want to jump ship I will create another character....hell I can have 1 for each zone...in fact if I want to explore the entire world I am FORCED to have 3 characters, 1 in each zone.
In stead of FORCING us into a faction at the start, make faction CHOICE very serious business. Make it so that the CHOICE is something not to be taken lightly. The way it was done in Skyrim was perfect really. Just translate that across. Start neutral, do your thing, if you want to get involved in the war, CHOOSE your side.
The key words here are FORCE and CHOOSE. A bog standard game design by numbers FORCES you to do things. A TES game lets you CHOOSE.
If I play the game as a Breton and feel like joining forces with the Nords....shit out of luck. According the the game design NO Breton can ever side with the Nords. No Breton can enter the lands of Skyrim. No Breton can own a house in Skyrim, or have a job in Skyrim, or take a holiday in Skyrim. Why? Because they CHOSE to fight for Highrock? NO, because if you are a Breton you have ZERO CHOICE in who you fight for.
I can certainly understand the whole Lets try and re-create the PvP found in DAOC thing. I personally never got into the game but people praise the PvP. But this is NOT DAOC, never will be and never should be. Lets move forward in game design and realise the limitations of past years due to hardware and processing power are gone and are no longer excuses for antiquated or shoddy design. FORCING 3 faction PvP doesn't stop Imbalance anyway, people will simply create a character in another faction. So design, good design imho, should be about looking at the problem and coming up with a solution. No sticking to a design that is inherently flawed and saying 'fuck it, DAOC PvP was good so lets copy that'.