The problm is that everyone who makes Sandbox's feel that FFA PvP is the only thing that matters. Give me a PvE Sandbox and I'll gladly try it out if it has solid features and good production quality. Basically I want a Triple A Sandbox with non raid centric PvE being the focus, but that will never happen so as is I am stuck with themeparks or hybrids.
Wise words mr Zylaxx. I think I'd try and play PvE sandbox any time, given it's polished enough to play.
A theme park is a theme park...and theme parks are only going to last you a couple months.This is why I lol'ed when people were saying they were going to make GW2 their home for years to come.
People overhyped themselves soo much for this game that some are still crash landing till this day..
If you learn to control your personal hype level,you'll be able to land on your feet.
Yet the king of all ThemeParks, WoW, still has millions of players.
Well this is entirely subjective. For me personally it's very mediocre but this is subjective again. Didn't get into WoW either and maybe GW can beat 8 year old WoW. Don't know because I cannot compare these two.
@Karteli About the social aspect, for me, saying things like "we need tools or social structure" is really nonsense. What does it even mean? What kind of tools or social structure that other MMO's have that GW2 would need? It should be to the players to decide these kinds of things, not some in-game tools. Sure the game let you play alone without any group and you aren't punish, but it also doesn't prevent you from grouping. The problem doesn't come from the game at all, its the players and yet people don't even realise this. (???? people are realizing this)
Any game can more or less claim to be an MMORPG. But it's the little things that really matter to customers. Some customer's may not not care about certain aspects, since they care about others. It's those paper cuts that count, get some cuts, and it's OK ... get a bunch and you might die (Thank you SWTOR for the meaning of 1000 paper cuts!).
"We need tools or social structure" is not nonsense.
For social structure, everyone is the same, equipment wise. There is no reason for anyone to feel better or worse than any other player. Which is really bad as a driving factor to get people to keep logging on.
What social tools exist? There is something like 10 or less emotes in GW2. Really?? Every other game has 100+ or 200+. 10??
There is no way to examine who is in the same zone as yourself via /who. There is no way to passively find out what members of a certain guild are currently logged on. There is also no way to actively find out who of any class and level range are logged on. No variations of /who. /who doesn't exist in GW2.
Any achievements someone earns are for the birds. Nobody else will ever see them or applaud you, so why bother.
Any new equipment designs you get are useless, nobody can inspect you or see how you specifically enhanced them. Why bother getting new equipment or legendaries. Someone will compliment you, and then proceed to forget you all the same, since interactivity is so low in GW2.
Lack of player trading is also an issue.
Players don't decide these things. The game comes with social tools, or it does not. GW2 does not come with social tools.
You blame everything on the players, but you are also saying that an online version on Pong is also social because people who never see each other move their paddles independantly. While there is no in-game chat, or social tools, players can still communicate via moving their paddles around. Wonderful. GW2.
It's good to be realistic. If you've consumed everything in the game that appeals to you there really is no reason to keep on playing. But I don't get why some people are blaming GW2 for this. I sure as hell prefer it this way than artificially prolonging my playtime by means of content barriers (aka gear progressive dungeons). It's either I put up with that or miss the content I paid for.
Couldn't get beyond that. I imagine you only played the AAA WoW clones since WoW then?
Guess I should add a caveat to my caveat:
I think GW2 is the most original TRIPLE A MMO since WoW.
I don't do "indie" games because they are all horribly designed with no production quality. Stiff animations, missing features to save on costs like poor artwork, poor animations, and niche elements (like FFA PvP or P2W).
I cahllenege you to show me one video of moderate length designed by an "indie" studio with an "indie" budget that shows good production quality and believable animations.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I got my fair share of warnings and temp bans for bashing haters as well.
I didn't treat anyone like anything, I spoke my mind at the time and stand by all those assertions.
Doesnt change the fact I still think GW2 is an amazing game for what it is, it just doesnt have enough to keep me around. The same thing I said about TSW and more then likely the same thing I'll say about TESO and NW. (but hoping not) Coincidentally I will bash haters of those games as well, so fair warning.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
There's huge difference between bashing something you have very little experience with, and know very little about - vs - actually taking the time to learn what the real problems are. Even if we're talking about matters of opinion, unfounded opinions are just useless, and that goes for love and hate, alike.
Some people will say that they knew from the beginning what was wrong, why did it take others so long to see it - the problem with that is assuming that your gut feelings are really the same as someone with more experience of the game. There might be similarities, but that does not make them the same at all. The game has turned out to be disappointing for some of us, but not for the same reasons people had for hating it from the very beginning. A lot of the gripes people had early on are still bs now, just as much as they were then.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Couldn't get beyond that. I imagine you only played the AAA WoW clones since WoW then?
Guess I should add a caveat to my caveat:
I think GW2 is the most original TRIPLE A MMO since WoW.
I don't do "indie" games because they are all horribly designed with no production quality.
And I lost you again.
Having better graphics does not make a better game. Most indie MMos have much MUCH better game design that AAA titles.
So basically what you're saying is "I've only ever played WoW clones, but of allll the WOW clones, this one felt the least like a WoW clone!"
Again show me an Indie video that shows polished animations and decent to high production quality.
The game could be the best thing in the world and I still wont play if it isnt good to look at and have nice animations. Ive tried playing DF, Fallen Earth and alot of F2P Asian games. Wont touch it even if the gameplay is great.
Looking at this particular list of indie MMO's that I randomly selected from google. I would never paly those sort of stylistic games.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I categorize the people that feel compelled to say "goodbyes" to games, in the same group as the people that feel everybody should be playing their game.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I dunno. Perspectives change. I try to play the parts I like and avoid the stuff I dont. Lately, that leaves me with a tiny little mmo that does not last more than a few months tops. You like to explore, so thats what you did in GW2. Once you explored it all, there wasn't a next part that attracted you. The devs will no doubt add things in the future that you will come back and enjoy for a while.
I think the real trick is when a dev makes enough activities that you can enjoy and can cycle through as you get bored or want a change of pace, you are hooked for the long term. GW2 does a few things very very well. That was their approach. They will add very well made things down the line, but people will drop off in the meantime.
Another approach is to make a tons of things to do that are not fully fleshed out yet. And over time, make them more robust. I prefer a lot of options up front that can be refined over a few systems that are fully realized with little else.
Perhaps thats part of what you are feeling with gw2.
I dunno. Perspectives change. I try to play the parts I like and avoid the stuff I dont. Lately, that leaves me with a tiny little mmo that does not last more than a few months tops. You like to explore, so thats what you did in GW2. Once you explored it all, there wasn't a next part that attracted you. The devs will no doubt add things in the future that you will come back and enjoy for a while.
I think the real trick is when a dev makes enough activities that you can enjoy and can cycle through as you get bored or want a change of pace, you are hooked for the long term. GW2 does a few things very very well. That was their approach. They will add very well made things down the line, but people will drop off in the meantime.
Another approach is to make a tons of things to do that are not fully fleshed out yet. And over time, make them more robust. I prefer a lot of options up front that can be refined over a few systems that are fully realized with little else.
Perhaps thats part of what you are feeling with gw2.
Nicely put.
I used to be able to move onto PvP when my main attraction was removed (new exploration and small scale group content) but I cant even bother to being myself to play WvW any longer and I can't say why, which makes it all the more frustrating.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Just because the game let you finish a dungeon after 1 hour of dying and rezzing it doesn't mean you actually beat it - it just means the game actually is so tired of bashing you that it actually lets you win.
Yeah, my first dungeon runs were wipe fests.
They aren't anymore - people go down, but generally you can rez them before anyone gets defeated.
And the aggro isn't exactly random - I've been in dungeons where all the mobs just go after me all the time while in others I'm the last to be attacked. Creatures just have different Ais. People just need to stop thinking in terms of min/max a certain aspect and balance their stats (if your traits give power and crit, choose armor that gives toughness and/or vit). Also make sure you have at least green equipment for story and yellow equipment for explorer (and the late ones are balanced for exotic).
I enjoy the game and will be enjoying it for ages (I can see myself reach or surpass the 10K hours I've put in GW1) but I'm all about of mastering the game, knowing all the tricks, skills/traits of every profession, in essence developing myself as a player isntead of a developement based on the character.
i also generally go for the levelling everyone to cap before starting to go for achievements like 100% map completion, which is one of the reasons I enjoyed GW1 so much and haven't ever been captured by games that reward those that invest the majority of their time in a single character.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Hey OP, and people here like the OP, why did you bash me and call me a Troll for saying the same thing early on?
You all reported me and got me banned. That's what made me delete this account the first time. Because I would get warnings and banned for stating my opinion on the game like the OP did.
i was even banned from GW2G for the same reasons.
why? I just don't get how you can treat people like that, but expect sorrow when you do the same thing after realizing what we did, a while ago.
i don't get it.
There's huge difference between bashing something you have very little experience with, and know very little about - vs - actually taking the time to learn what the real problems are. Even if we're talking about matters of opinion, unfounded opinions are just useless, and that goes for love and hate, alike.
Some people will say that they knew from the beginning what was wrong, why did it take others so long to see it - the problem with that is assuming that your gut feelings are really the same as someone with more experience of the game. There might be similarities, but that does not make them the same at all. The game has turned out to be disappointing for some of us, but not for the same reasons people had for hating it from the very beginning. A lot of the gripes people had early on are still bs now, just as much as they were then.
This is a cop out and you know it. Some people saw the limitations of the game early on. These weren't just gut feelings. Nice try on letting yourself and others off the hook.
Before anyone takes this op at all seriously, the management suggests a careful review of the posting history in question.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There's huge difference between bashing something you have very little experience with, and know very little about - vs - actually taking the time to learn what the real problems are. Even if we're talking about matters of opinion, unfounded opinions are just useless, and that goes for love and hate, alike.
Some people will say that they knew from the beginning what was wrong, why did it take others so long to see it - the problem with that is assuming that your gut feelings are really the same as someone with more experience of the game. There might be similarities, but that does not make them the same at all. The game has turned out to be disappointing for some of us, but not for the same reasons people had for hating it from the very beginning. A lot of the gripes people had early on are still bs now, just as much as they were then.
This is a cop out and you know it. Some people saw the limitations of the game early on. These weren't just gut feelings. Nice try on letting yourself and others off the hook.
Not letting myself off any sort of hook. I still stand by anything I've ever posted about the game. I've been skeptical from the very beginning, but there were (and still are) some things I love about the game. I just wish it had more longevity. If anything, that was one thing I was most skeptical about, but I still knew better than to bash it until I could really say for sure.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Originally posted by Icewhite Before anyone takes this op at all seriously, the management suggests a careful review of the posting history in question.
Since we are all in our eulogy support group I'll add my two cents: I knew the game was over for me in 20 levels. MMOs are supposed to be about a journey of both world exploration and character growth. I knew after 10 levels GW2 was just wandering around pointlessly doing the same things repeatedly.
From the outside looking in it has great graphics, a decent story and some unique features but for me it is missing the things that make an MMO appealing to me the NEXT day!
It's off my computer and I am looking for the future. Maybe the genre is just dying. Or maybe it's just dying for me.
I just hope companies are starting to get the hint that maybe they should steer away from theme parks already. SOE seems like they are starting to,atleast so they say.
There are several indie seamless open world sandboxes in the works. There is still hope..
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Originally posted by Icewhite Before anyone takes this op at all seriously, the management suggests a careful review of the posting history in question.
Comments
Its still the best game since WoW...
But it would have done even better on consoles.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Wise words mr Zylaxx. I think I'd try and play PvE sandbox any time, given it's polished enough to play.
Yet the king of all ThemeParks, WoW, still has millions of players.
Well this is entirely subjective. For me personally it's very mediocre but this is subjective again. Didn't get into WoW either and maybe GW can beat 8 year old WoW. Don't know because I cannot compare these two.
Any game can more or less claim to be an MMORPG. But it's the little things that really matter to customers. Some customer's may not not care about certain aspects, since they care about others. It's those paper cuts that count, get some cuts, and it's OK ... get a bunch and you might die (Thank you SWTOR for the meaning of 1000 paper cuts!).
"We need tools or social structure" is not nonsense.
For social structure, everyone is the same, equipment wise. There is no reason for anyone to feel better or worse than any other player. Which is really bad as a driving factor to get people to keep logging on.
What social tools exist? There is something like 10 or less emotes in GW2. Really?? Every other game has 100+ or 200+. 10??
There is no way to examine who is in the same zone as yourself via /who. There is no way to passively find out what members of a certain guild are currently logged on. There is also no way to actively find out who of any class and level range are logged on. No variations of /who. /who doesn't exist in GW2.
Any achievements someone earns are for the birds. Nobody else will ever see them or applaud you, so why bother.
Any new equipment designs you get are useless, nobody can inspect you or see how you specifically enhanced them. Why bother getting new equipment or legendaries. Someone will compliment you, and then proceed to forget you all the same, since interactivity is so low in GW2.
Lack of player trading is also an issue.
Players don't decide these things. The game comes with social tools, or it does not. GW2 does not come with social tools.
You blame everything on the players, but you are also saying that an online version on Pong is also social because people who never see each other move their paddles independantly. While there is no in-game chat, or social tools, players can still communicate via moving their paddles around. Wonderful. GW2.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Welcome to the MMO with no endgame.
It's pretty bad when even the avid fanbois are giving up on it a month after release
When I wake up, the real nightmare begins
Couldn't get beyond that. I imagine you only played the AAA WoW clones since WoW then?
Guess I should add a caveat to my caveat:
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I got my fair share of warnings and temp bans for bashing haters as well.
I didn't treat anyone like anything, I spoke my mind at the time and stand by all those assertions.
Doesnt change the fact I still think GW2 is an amazing game for what it is, it just doesnt have enough to keep me around. The same thing I said about TSW and more then likely the same thing I'll say about TESO and NW. (but hoping not) Coincidentally I will bash haters of those games as well, so fair warning.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
There's huge difference between bashing something you have very little experience with, and know very little about - vs - actually taking the time to learn what the real problems are. Even if we're talking about matters of opinion, unfounded opinions are just useless, and that goes for love and hate, alike.
Some people will say that they knew from the beginning what was wrong, why did it take others so long to see it - the problem with that is assuming that your gut feelings are really the same as someone with more experience of the game. There might be similarities, but that does not make them the same at all. The game has turned out to be disappointing for some of us, but not for the same reasons people had for hating it from the very beginning. A lot of the gripes people had early on are still bs now, just as much as they were then.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
And I lost you again.
Having better graphics does not make a better game. Most indie MMos have much MUCH better game design that AAA titles.
So basically what you're saying is "I've only ever played WoW clones, but of allll the WOW clones, this one felt the least like a WoW clone!"
Again show me an Indie video that shows polished animations and decent to high production quality.
The game could be the best thing in the world and I still wont play if it isnt good to look at and have nice animations. Ive tried playing DF, Fallen Earth and alot of F2P Asian games. Wont touch it even if the gameplay is great.
Looking at this particular list of indie MMO's that I randomly selected from google. I would never paly those sort of stylistic games.
EUO (2003) - Official Site
At it's core, a MMORPG with story and stylings tapered from the original tile based Ultima games... More Info227 votes
12345
Sagramore (2012) - Official Site
Realtime, 2D, browser MMO with cool 'retro' feeling sprite based characters... More Info166 votes
12345
New 1000 AD (2010) - Official Site
Semi-turn based strategy MMO set in medieval times... More Info171 votes
12345
Monster MMORPG (2009) - Official Site
Pet capturing and raising MMORPG exhibits the strong resemblence of a Pokemon MMORPG... More Info191 votes
12345
Mech Hero (2010) - Official Site
Mech empire builder, online strategy game with fully customizable units... More Info192 votes
12345
Puppet Guardian (2007) - Official Site
Combines board game feel with heavy crafting and gathering features... More InfoEverything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I categorize the people that feel compelled to say "goodbyes" to games, in the same group as the people that feel everybody should be playing their game.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I dunno. Perspectives change. I try to play the parts I like and avoid the stuff I dont. Lately, that leaves me with a tiny little mmo that does not last more than a few months tops. You like to explore, so thats what you did in GW2. Once you explored it all, there wasn't a next part that attracted you. The devs will no doubt add things in the future that you will come back and enjoy for a while.
I think the real trick is when a dev makes enough activities that you can enjoy and can cycle through as you get bored or want a change of pace, you are hooked for the long term. GW2 does a few things very very well. That was their approach. They will add very well made things down the line, but people will drop off in the meantime.
Another approach is to make a tons of things to do that are not fully fleshed out yet. And over time, make them more robust. I prefer a lot of options up front that can be refined over a few systems that are fully realized with little else.
Perhaps thats part of what you are feeling with gw2.
Nicely put.
I used to be able to move onto PvP when my main attraction was removed (new exploration and small scale group content) but I cant even bother to being myself to play WvW any longer and I can't say why, which makes it all the more frustrating.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
About the dungeons:
Just because the game let you finish a dungeon after 1 hour of dying and rezzing it doesn't mean you actually beat it - it just means the game actually is so tired of bashing you that it actually lets you win.
Yeah, my first dungeon runs were wipe fests.
They aren't anymore - people go down, but generally you can rez them before anyone gets defeated.
And the aggro isn't exactly random - I've been in dungeons where all the mobs just go after me all the time while in others I'm the last to be attacked. Creatures just have different Ais. People just need to stop thinking in terms of min/max a certain aspect and balance their stats (if your traits give power and crit, choose armor that gives toughness and/or vit). Also make sure you have at least green equipment for story and yellow equipment for explorer (and the late ones are balanced for exotic).
I enjoy the game and will be enjoying it for ages (I can see myself reach or surpass the 10K hours I've put in GW1) but I'm all about of mastering the game, knowing all the tricks, skills/traits of every profession, in essence developing myself as a player isntead of a developement based on the character.
i also generally go for the levelling everyone to cap before starting to go for achievements like 100% map completion, which is one of the reasons I enjoyed GW1 so much and haven't ever been captured by games that reward those that invest the majority of their time in a single character.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
This is a cop out and you know it. Some people saw the limitations of the game early on. These weren't just gut feelings. Nice try on letting yourself and others off the hook.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Not letting myself off any sort of hook. I still stand by anything I've ever posted about the game. I've been skeptical from the very beginning, but there were (and still are) some things I love about the game. I just wish it had more longevity. If anything, that was one thing I was most skeptical about, but I still knew better than to bash it until I could really say for sure.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I would advise the same.
There are several indie seamless open world sandboxes in the works. There is still hope..
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
This x 100
End thread /