Originally posted by mnwild1998 How many post can we have about haters/trol!$ whinning and crying that this is not Freebies and Handouts 2 play. Its unreal the lazieness and entitlement some people have.
I know right. I remember paying for internet by the minute and a sub on top of that. todays mmo players have it so good they just dont know.
Originally posted by Talgen Yeah but if you have a problem, dont expect customer service to try and help you.. go read that FAQ and hope to god that there is an answer.. lol... so... 'you can play, but we dont care about you unless you give us money'
Well, in all fairness, why should they? You are not a customer yet after all.
They are already allowing you into their shop and giving you a free sample... what more do you really want? Handjobs?
Wow, how....mature.... . .. .. .
But (based on your scenario) don't ask what the free sample is right? Cause they gave us one, that's good enough. We don't have the right to know what it is or why it's a free sample, huh?
Just pay 15 bucks a month if you really want to play. I say this every time..F2P is just a gimmick and yet people complain everytime a F2P model is launched. I thought players would be more smart by now and realise that.
No point complaining about this, because first of all it is EA and nothing is going to change.
It's "I thought players would be smarter by now". If you are going to make fun of someone's intelligence, at least write your sentence properly so you don't sound stupid..
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
I did. As a former Player last year I was curious.
Ouch.
I understand F2P needs restrictions to encourage and entice Players to go Subscription but some of the restrictions are too tight. Most of the restrictions are reasonable but a couple have me worried...
... No BankVault / Cargo Hold at all for F2P? Really? That combined with the reduced Inventory will piss off so many potential customers it's frightening....
... Several restrictions to Chat? Why do Devs think this a good idea.... it's a MMORPG for god's sake.... Players need to be able to talk and ask questions, how are Vets (subscribers) going to talk these Players into going Subscription if the F2P can't talk back? EA Bioware just lost a free Subscription Sales department right there...
oh WAIT... it's not a MMO, it's an "Interactive Video Game", so no communication is really necessary, sorry my mistake....
Those are the two biggies I saw as I read through the list. These two restrictions alone I am guessing will lose HALF of the potential customers EA BioWare was hoping to gain.
Now I was and still am upset about the botched job that is SWTOR, but if I was to return I would go Subscription all the way, HOWEVER what good is a F2P MMO that scares away the F2P with restrictions too tight? What kind of community will it have? How good will be the Population?
After reading the matrix I fear the answers to my questions won't be positive ones. EA BioWare needs to lossen up the restrictions a bit or this experiment is gonna blow up in their face like a badly timed grenade.
The Carrot has to look good, and smell good, and be just a little bit beyond reach to be tempting. SWTOR's carrot is too far away to be all that tempting.
Originally posted by mikahr Originally posted by hikaru77Free 2 play game is a Myth. At some point is like people want the same things that a P2P player, it wont happen. Same deal with Lotro or AoC, if you dont pay, you cant really play the game.
WRONG.
You can play LOTRO completely free.
Its only true F2P game (along DDO) out of these "freemiums".
Learn that once and for all.
AND
If F2P is a myth DONT advertise it as such and the sulk over people laughing at free trial to 50 you have.
True,I played lotr and it was quite possible to play f2p.I had bought the game when it was launched but stop playing after a time and when I returned I was able to play quite well and also buy a few things from turbine shop with points I gained while leveling and doing deeds. Same with eq2 where I made a new account specially for f2p,only money I payed in the beginning were 5$ to get silver pack and as a non raider that was quite decent .In the end I spent more money but on cosmetic items and pets so with f2p eq2 gained more money from me than it would have get while it was a subscription game. I was planning to try swtor for the story part mostly and maybe some pvp but the restrictions are too much and it seems there is not even a way to pay once for no limits pvp,you have to buy the pack every week.Not f2p is the problem ,EA way of thinking is.Better just wait for Christmas sales and you can get much better single player rpgs for a few $ than to support EA,even if you play the stories for free you are still helping EA to twist numbers about how successful the game is.
Nice list of restrictions to ensure people aren't getting social or too invested in the game during their free-to-play.
Sadly, SWTOR continues to be full of fail.
I would LOVE if disney just shut SWTOR down ... and decided to make a new SWMMO that isn't designed or run by old timers who are completely out of touch
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
Originally posted by Talgen Yeah but if you have a problem, dont expect customer service to try and help you.. go read that FAQ and hope to god that there is an answer.. lol... so... 'you can play, but we dont care about you unless you give us money'
Well, in all fairness, why should they? You are not a customer yet after all.
They are already allowing you into their shop and giving you a free sample... what more do you really want? Handjobs?
Wow, how....mature.... . .. .. .
But (based on your scenario) don't ask what the free sample is right? Cause they gave us one, that's good enough. We don't have the right to know what it is or why it's a free sample, huh?
Just pay 15 bucks a month if you really want to play. I say this every time..F2P is just a gimmick and yet people complain everytime a F2P model is launched. I thought players would be more smart by now and realise that.
No point complaining about this, because first of all it is EA and nothing is going to change.
It's "I thought players would be smarter by now". If you are going to make fun of someone's intelligence, at least write your sentence properly so you don't sound stupid..
English is not my first language. But i think i do quite well for someone whose mother tounge is Japanese and can also write, talk and speak French and Spanish to respectable levels.
Moreover, by 'being smarter' i meant the ability to recognise tit is nothing more than an extended trial. It false advertising nothing more.
I never said anything about someone's grammatical and spelling prowess. One can write a sentence in perfect grammar and can still be an idiot.
Nice list of restrictions to ensure people aren't getting social or too invested in the game during their free-to-play.
That's a good, concise way to put it.
For those complaining about people complaining about the restrictions (the circle of complaining has been completed?): I don't (in my opinion of course) think this is so much about the desire to freeload or something like that. This site is for people with varying levels of interest in MMOs. A lot of people seem very interested in, and have a number of thoughts/opinions about, the business of MMOs. Now, whether they are motivated by hope or distaste for the game, people are going to talk about where they think this conversion to "F2P" is going wrong or right.
Now, you can say "you aren't entitled to anything" or some such dismissal, but really, if the idea (for EA) is to make the game financially successful, then as DeaconX pointed out, there is some obligation to get a player invested in the game to encourage further speding. The current 'feature list' (again, in my opinion) does not entice me to reinstall and, judging by the limited sample that is this forum, I'm not alone.
As I said though, that's all based on the assumption EA wants the to be successful. The jury is still out .
Those are just my thoughts on it. Those thoughts are worth up to $15/mo and likely there are another $15/mo with an opposite opinion. I suppose my real point is that maybe we can get past the dismissiveness of other people opinions and get to more interesting discussion about which features are good/bad and how they could improve the offering. Even if we can't agree across the board, it'd be an interesting excercise to see what the lowest common denominator is between the extremes of completely-F2P and subscription supporters.
In that spirit, I'll offer up some of my thoughts on what I'm fine with in the cash-shop (based off the preferred status of the feature list EA published):
Additional Character Slot
Additional Inventory
XP Rate
Fast Travel Passes
Customer Service beyond web/forum
Trade/Auction limitations
Chat limitations
Some of the things I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with:
UI limitations
Warzone/Operation/Flashpoint Passes (though I'd be fine with some limitation)
Character Creation (though I'd be fine with lesser limitations)
Space Missions (is this really a selling point that they should be locking?)
Mod Removal (though this might overlap some with equipment restrictions and not be the biggest issue)
What would help mitigate these concerns:
Purchasing cartel coins with in-game currency would alleviate a good portion of my distaste for the offering. Admittedly, I haven't seen if this is allowed or not, so if they intend to allow it, then more power to them. The assumption being this would be like a EvE PLEX system where another player bought the coins and listed them on the GTN.
The other stuff I'm up in the air on and could be convinced either way probably. I didn't really see anything about the Legacy system listed, so I'll assume that is sub-only which I think makes sense. Again, jsut my opnion. Whether fanboy, hater, or somewhere in between, where do you think they are going right or wrong (and "all of it" is a cop-out answer )?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I actually took the time to read the restrictions..They dont seem that bad. Full content up to lvl cap. 5 warzones per week 3 flashpoint per week. you can still get a mount and talk in general chat. You can still join a guild or lead a f2p guild. My only complaints are the mailing system and the UI limitations.
Originally posted by Talin Being able to play through the storyline 1-50 is like getting a great single-player RPG for free. Sure, you will be missing some nice-to-have features by getting it for free, but the point stands. If you want more of the game, and want to play the "MMO" version of the features, you have to pay. I'm not sure the MMO is worth it really, but the class storyline makes playing through at least once very much worth it.
This is what I'm thinking. I thought the story content was really the only content worth doing. I think they did an ok job with the flashpoints and such, but it wasn't better than WoW or Rift. It wasn't worse either. For the cost of "Free" the story line content is worth it.
For everyone who isn't interested in the story content, this isn't going to look very attractive.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by mnwild1998 How many post can we have about haters/trol!$ whinning and crying that this is not Freebies and Handouts 2 play. Its unreal the lazieness and entitlement some people have.
I know right. I remember paying for internet by the minute and a sub on top of that. todays mmo players have it so good they just dont know.
Yup, they got smarter and dont accept crap any more. Not thanks to you i see.
Originally posted by mnwild1998 How many post can we have about haters/trol!$ whinning and crying that this is not Freebies and Handouts 2 play. Its unreal the lazieness and entitlement some people have.
Let me guess, you've read a similar post about F2P complaining and thought it was cool to say exactly the same thing but didn't think it through properly as it's SWTOR we are talking about.
Judging by the 1998 in your name, I guess you are also making out you are older than you actually are too.
I did. As a former Player last year I was curious.
Ouch.
I understand F2P needs restrictions to encourage and entice Players to go Subscription but some of the restrictions are too tight. Most of the restrictions are reasonable but a couple have me worried...
... No BankVault / Cargo Hold at all for F2P? Really? That combined with the reduced Inventory will piss off so many potential customers it's frightening....
... Several restrictions to Chat? Why do Devs think this a good idea.... it's a MMORPG for god's sake.... Players need to be able to talk and ask questions, how are Vets (subscribers) going to talk these Players into going Subscription if the F2P can't talk back? EA Bioware just lost a free Subscription Sales department right there...
oh WAIT... it's not a MMO, it's an "Interactive Video Game", so no communication is really necessary, sorry my mistake....
Those are the two biggies I saw as I read through the list. These two restrictions alone I am guessing will lose HALF of the potential customers EA BioWare was hoping to gain.
Now I was and still am upset about the botched job that is SWTOR, but if I was to return I would go Subscription all the way, HOWEVER what good is a F2P MMO that scares away the F2P with restrictions too tight? What kind of community will it have? How good will be the Population?
After reading the matrix I fear the answers to my questions won't be positive ones. EA BioWare needs to lossen up the restrictions a bit or this experiment is gonna blow up in their face like a badly timed grenade.
The Carrot has to look good, and smell good, and be just a little bit beyond reach to be tempting. SWTOR's carrot is too far away to be all that tempting.
There we go, boom. Thats my thoughts in one. Poor move t.o FTP, restrictions ofc are to be expected, but this is too too far... I was interested, but now? now Im not going back, Im sure im not the only one.
Im concerned about the warzone restrictions and flashpoint restrictions. This is just going to nail the paying customers,, and have a negative effect, queue's were bad before. I actually laughed at this.....
This is absolutely absurd. Sprinting shifted to level 15? Lol? That's a new and odd kind of restriction. In fact the majority of these restrictions are plain silly and hamper the core of the game. We get it, you need to try and make money after how badly this game performed but there's a difference between Free To Play and treating a potential subscriber as some kind of prisoner to try and yank some cash out of. Please research your competition. I know I will not be personally trying the game out again with how ridiculous this model is right now.
... Several restrictions to Chat? Why do Devs think this a good idea.... it's a MMORPG for god's sake.... Players need to be able to talk and ask questions, how are Vets (subscribers) going to talk these Players into going Subscription if the F2P can't talk back? EA Bioware just lost a free Subscription Sales department right there...
oh WAIT... it's not a MMO, it's an "Interactive Video Game", so no communication is really necessary, sorry my mistake....
This was to solve the Lifeless Worlds problem. Now there are tons of F2P NPCs to see moving around the world. No programming of new AI. Problem solved.
They will next add day/night cycles by telling you to dim your monitor every hour for 15 minutes.
Looks like it's F2P in name only. That's probably the worst free to play features list I've ever seen.
Either keep the sub, or don't play.
Aye, the people thar are subbed dont seem to mind, and the potential f2p players are pissed and dont want to play. so, yeah... what were they thinking...
... Several restrictions to Chat? Why do Devs think this a good idea.... it's a MMORPG for god's sake.... Players need to be able to talk and ask questions, how are Vets (subscribers) going to talk these Players into going Subscription if the F2P can't talk back? EA Bioware just lost a free Subscription Sales department right there...
oh WAIT... it's not a MMO, it's an "Interactive Video Game", so no communication is really necessary, sorry my mistake....
This was to solve the Lifeless Worlds problem. Now there are tons of F2P NPCs to see moving around the world. No programming of new AI. Problem solved.
They will next add day/night cycles by telling you to dim your monitor every hour for 15 minutes.
I already have day and night cycles. My game looses conection to server every 30-40 min.
Another stupid restriction is planet commendation limit. All the rest is just desighed to make u want tp subscribe.
XP gain still good . I finished Curossant yesterday and only outlvl content for 2 lvl. In general F2p very playable. Very annoying to send your companion to sell junk constantly and no bank space to F2P at all.
But i can c general number of subscribers rising. Would EAware be able to keep them when they reach end game content? Dont think so.
Comments
I know right. I remember paying for internet by the minute and a sub on top of that. todays mmo players have it so good they just dont know.
It's "I thought players would be smarter by now". If you are going to make fun of someone's intelligence, at least write your sentence properly so you don't sound stupid..
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
I did. As a former Player last year I was curious.
Ouch.
I understand F2P needs restrictions to encourage and entice Players to go Subscription but some of the restrictions are too tight. Most of the restrictions are reasonable but a couple have me worried...
... No BankVault / Cargo Hold at all for F2P? Really? That combined with the reduced Inventory will piss off so many potential customers it's frightening....
... Several restrictions to Chat? Why do Devs think this a good idea.... it's a MMORPG for god's sake.... Players need to be able to talk and ask questions, how are Vets (subscribers) going to talk these Players into going Subscription if the F2P can't talk back? EA Bioware just lost a free Subscription Sales department right there...
oh WAIT... it's not a MMO, it's an "Interactive Video Game", so no communication is really necessary, sorry my mistake....
Those are the two biggies I saw as I read through the list. These two restrictions alone I am guessing will lose HALF of the potential customers EA BioWare was hoping to gain.
Now I was and still am upset about the botched job that is SWTOR, but if I was to return I would go Subscription all the way, HOWEVER what good is a F2P MMO that scares away the F2P with restrictions too tight? What kind of community will it have? How good will be the Population?
After reading the matrix I fear the answers to my questions won't be positive ones. EA BioWare needs to lossen up the restrictions a bit or this experiment is gonna blow up in their face like a badly timed grenade.
The Carrot has to look good, and smell good, and be just a little bit beyond reach to be tempting. SWTOR's carrot is too far away to be all that tempting.
You can play LOTRO completely free.
Its only true F2P game (along DDO) out of these "freemiums".
Learn that once and for all.
AND
If F2P is a myth DONT advertise it as such and the sulk over people laughing at free trial to 50 you have.
True,I played lotr and it was quite possible to play f2p.I had bought the game when it was launched but stop playing after a time and when I returned I was able to play quite well and also buy a few things from turbine shop with points I gained while leveling and doing deeds.
Same with eq2 where I made a new account specially for f2p,only money I payed in the beginning were 5$ to get silver pack and as a non raider that was quite decent .In the end I spent more money but on cosmetic items and pets so with f2p eq2 gained more money from me than it would have get while it was a subscription game.
I was planning to try swtor for the story part mostly and maybe some pvp but the restrictions are too much and it seems there is not even a way to pay once for no limits pvp,you have to buy the pack every week.Not f2p is the problem ,EA way of thinking is.Better just wait for Christmas sales and you can get much better single player rpgs for a few $ than to support EA,even if you play the stories for free you are still helping EA to twist numbers about how successful the game is.
I would say it's made to jerk people.Guess what the only jerk here is bioware and ea.Not a chance to fall for the same shit again.
Nice list of restrictions to ensure people aren't getting social or too invested in the game during their free-to-play.
Sadly, SWTOR continues to be full of fail.
I would LOVE if disney just shut SWTOR down ... and decided to make a new SWMMO that isn't designed or run by old timers who are completely out of touch
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
English is not my first language. But i think i do quite well for someone whose mother tounge is Japanese and can also write, talk and speak French and Spanish to respectable levels.
Moreover, by 'being smarter' i meant the ability to recognise tit is nothing more than an extended trial. It false advertising nothing more.
I never said anything about someone's grammatical and spelling prowess. One can write a sentence in perfect grammar and can still be an idiot.
That's a good, concise way to put it.
For those complaining about people complaining about the restrictions (the circle of complaining has been completed?): I don't (in my opinion of course) think this is so much about the desire to freeload or something like that. This site is for people with varying levels of interest in MMOs. A lot of people seem very interested in, and have a number of thoughts/opinions about, the business of MMOs. Now, whether they are motivated by hope or distaste for the game, people are going to talk about where they think this conversion to "F2P" is going wrong or right.
Now, you can say "you aren't entitled to anything" or some such dismissal, but really, if the idea (for EA) is to make the game financially successful, then as DeaconX pointed out, there is some obligation to get a player invested in the game to encourage further speding. The current 'feature list' (again, in my opinion) does not entice me to reinstall and, judging by the limited sample that is this forum, I'm not alone.
As I said though, that's all based on the assumption EA wants the to be successful. The jury is still out
.
Those are just my thoughts on it. Those thoughts are worth up to $15/mo and likely there are another $15/mo with an opposite opinion. I suppose my real point is that maybe we can get past the dismissiveness of other people opinions and get to more interesting discussion about which features are good/bad and how they could improve the offering. Even if we can't agree across the board, it'd be an interesting excercise to see what the lowest common denominator is between the extremes of completely-F2P and subscription supporters.
In that spirit, I'll offer up some of my thoughts on what I'm fine with in the cash-shop (based off the preferred status of the feature list EA published):
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I actually took the time to read the restrictions..They dont seem that bad. Full content up to lvl cap. 5 warzones per week 3 flashpoint per week. you can still get a mount and talk in general chat. You can still join a guild or lead a f2p guild. My only complaints are the mailing system and the UI limitations.
This is what I'm thinking. I thought the story content was really the only content worth doing. I think they did an ok job with the flashpoints and such, but it wasn't better than WoW or Rift. It wasn't worse either. For the cost of "Free" the story line content is worth it.
For everyone who isn't interested in the story content, this isn't going to look very attractive.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yup, they got smarter and dont accept crap any more. Not thanks to you i see.
Pardon my English...
This sound so retard that they thought extortion would worth more then make a better game?
Ok, so, think with me... So many time working on so many limitations right? That for sure took a great amount of work/developement, time and money...
Now image if they had spent all this time, work/developement, money to make a better game... ?
Image what the people that is paying $15 a mounth is thinking... that their money is not going to developement but to waste of features/limitations?
Did they thought on you at some point? or only on their wallet?
Let me guess, you've read a similar post about F2P complaining and thought it was cool to say exactly the same thing but didn't think it through properly as it's SWTOR we are talking about.
Judging by the 1998 in your name, I guess you are also making out you are older than you actually are too.
You are too cool for school, seriously.
There we go, boom. Thats my thoughts in one. Poor move t.o FTP, restrictions ofc are to be expected, but this is too too far... I was interested, but now? now Im not going back, Im sure im not the only one.
Im concerned about the warzone restrictions and flashpoint restrictions. This is just going to nail the paying customers,, and have a negative effect, queue's were bad before. I actually laughed at this.....
I thought I saw an unlock for money limit, maybe not then
lmao....
Remove the air brakes, and the tires. Then the SWTOR people will be following you until you crash from agony and steal your money from your pockets.
This was to solve the Lifeless Worlds problem. Now there are tons of F2P NPCs to see moving around the world. No programming of new AI. Problem solved.
They will next add day/night cycles by telling you to dim your monitor every hour for 15 minutes.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Looks like it's F2P in name only. That's probably the worst free to play features list I've ever seen.
Either keep the sub, or don't play.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Aye, the people thar are subbed dont seem to mind, and the potential f2p players are pissed and dont want to play. so, yeah... what were they thinking...
I already have day and night cycles. My game looses conection to server every 30-40 min.
Another stupid restriction is planet commendation limit. All the rest is just desighed to make u want tp subscribe.
XP gain still good . I finished Curossant yesterday and only outlvl content for 2 lvl. In general F2p very playable. Very annoying to send your companion to sell junk constantly and no bank space to F2P at all.
But i can c general number of subscribers rising. Would EAware be able to keep them when they reach end game content? Dont think so.
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