Sometimes I just sit back and think God almighty will he ever get of the me me me me horse, just because something is old doesn't make it redundant, when I was a kid in the 70's we recycled naturally a thing that was with us because of the World War 2 and its after effects through the 50's and 60's but that soon changed in the late 70's, 80's and we turned into the disposable society until we realised we couldn't sustain this type of society and thus the massive rethinking and movement towards older ideas started, renewable fuels anyone? There is lots to learn and reuse from older ideas and we can learn a lot from what made older MMO's have longevity, better communities and deeper gameplay. I read your posts and it comes across as if you are truly frightened that the present staus quo will change and move back towards massive multiplayer Worlds which was what the genre was all about in its infancy.
Ah... those were the days. Things made of PVC, VCM... no taxes on kerosene, no regulation to fuel consumption or emissions... Their legacy also includes the abandonment of thorium reactors because, unlike with uranium and plutonium, you couldn't make it go BOOM! And you loved making things go BOOM in the Southern Pacific. Asbestos anyone?
Yeah, we got a lot to learn alright...
It depends entirely what you pick and how you present it. Or if you have rose-tinted glasses on or not.
It really hasn't got anything to do with rose tinted glasses some ideas work and others don't and it doesn't matter what era they came from but you don't discount something just because its old do you? there is nothing wrong with looking to past for ideasand Vinyl records are the best sound you can get played on a proper turntable
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
I don't think much of easyMMO's and I am not a fan of Flight Sims either. But That does not mean I want to see the end of easyMMO's or flight sims. I think there is room for all types of gameplay not just one.
Indeed I do not think we could just go back to something like UO or DAOC and copy and paste with upto date graphics for a great modern MMO. It is more complex than that. It is those who say today's MMO's are the only way to make them and we can learn nothing from the history of MMO's that seem to want only one type of gameplay.
Going back to 15 year old gameplay ideas? That s the best hope of a genre?
I will say look forward instead of back. Instead of traditionals, devs should consider other type of online gameplay and fuse with MMO features.
I suppose there is a niche market for old ideas, and i have no problem if some games are like that. However, don't expect me to spend time in a revived UO, unless the gameplay is redesigned to be more assessible.
Sometimes I just sit back and think God almighty will he ever get of the me me me me horse, just because something is old doesn't make it redundant, when I was a kid in the 70's we recycled naturally a thing that was with us because of the World War 2 and its after effects through the 50's and 60's but that soon changed in the late 70's, 80's and we turned into the disposable society until we realised we couldn't sustain this type of society and thus the massive rethinking and movement towards older ideas started, renewable fuels anyone? There is lots to learn and reuse from older ideas and we can learn a lot from what made older MMO's have longevity, better communities and deeper gameplay. I read your posts and it comes across as if you are truly frightened that the present staus quo will change and move back towards massive multiplayer Worlds which was what the genre was all about in its infancy.
And yet your post is about what you like, what you did, and implying what you want.
So you are allowed to state the me me me, but he isn't? Sheesh
I didn't read it that way. Everything is not about opinions and preferences. MMORPGs originally really were all about massive worlds with, more or less, heroic life simulators. That's a fact not an opinion nor even a personal preference... it's just accurate memory.
Didn't state it wasn't an opinion but both are either stating or implying what they want and one is ragging on the other for it.
Kneejerk reaction? I was ragging on nariusseldon because its always from his point of view and only his point of view, the I don't want this, I don't want that, mentality and I'm not the first to notice this, but I didn't say I wanted worlds and fuck everyone else did I? I like modern MMO's just fine I'm not a bitter vet I started playing WoW in '07, but I'm not blind that I cannot see there are problems and the genre is getting away from what it was originally what made it unique and a new genre. Its about respecting history and learning from it not about what I want and everyone else can just go and fuck themselves.
Does it really frighten you so much that someone states their opinion about what games they like and what games they will play?
He and many others have also stated modern MMO's have problems, what they are and what they would like them to be.
From his perspective he and they have learned from history, which is why they are not made that way.
The only difference between your post and his post is, you are ragging on him, and stating something different.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Sometimes I just sit back and think God almighty will he ever get of the me me me me horse, just because something is old doesn't make it redundant, when I was a kid in the 70's we recycled naturally a thing that was with us because of the World War 2 and its after effects through the 50's and 60's but that soon changed in the late 70's, 80's and we turned into the disposable society until we realised we couldn't sustain this type of society and thus the massive rethinking and movement towards older ideas started, renewable fuels anyone? There is lots to learn and reuse from older ideas and we can learn a lot from what made older MMO's have longevity, better communities and deeper gameplay. I read your posts and it comes across as if you are truly frightened that the present staus quo will change and move back towards massive multiplayer Worlds which was what the genre was all about in its infancy.
Ah... those were the days. Things made of PVC, VCM... no taxes on kerosene, no regulation to fuel consumption or emissions... Their legacy also includes the abandonment of thorium reactors because, unlike with uranium and plutonium, you couldn't make it go BOOM! And you loved making things go BOOM in the Southern Pacific. Asbestos anyone?
Yeah, we got a lot to learn alright...
It depends entirely what you pick and how you present it. Or if you have rose-tinted glasses on or not.
It really hasn't got anything to do with rose tinted glasses some ideas work and others don't and it doesn't matter what era they came from but you don't discount something just because its old do you? there is nothing wrong with looking to past for ideasand Vinyl records are the best sound you can get played on a proper turntable
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
It really hasn't got anything to do with rose tinted glasses some ideas work and others don't and it doesn't matter what era they came from but you don't discount something just because its old do you? there is nothing wrong with looking to past for ideasand Vinyl records are the best sound you can get played on a proper turntable
Ofcourse it does! These people think the old games would work as they are with just a facelift (=graphics update)! They are delusional. Surely you can see that?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
It really hasn't got anything to do with rose tinted glasses some ideas work and others don't and it doesn't matter what era they came from but you don't discount something just because its old do you? there is nothing wrong with looking to past for ideasand Vinyl records are the best sound you can get played on a proper turntable
Ofcourse it does! These people think the old games would work as they are with just a facelift (=graphics update)! They are delusional. Surely you can see that?
Who are "these people"? sweeping generalisation don't make a good basis for an argument.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Actually Vinyl records produce a more accurate sound than even CDs. There are cases when older technologies can be superior to newer technologies. Superior in this case referring to sound quality only.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Sometimes I just sit back and think God almighty will he ever get of the me me me me horse, just because something is old doesn't make it redundant, when I was a kid in the 70's we recycled naturally a thing that was with us because of the World War 2 and its after effects through the 50's and 60's but that soon changed in the late 70's, 80's and we turned into the disposable society until we realised we couldn't sustain this type of society and thus the massive rethinking and movement towards older ideas started, renewable fuels anyone? There is lots to learn and reuse from older ideas and we can learn a lot from what made older MMO's have longevity, better communities and deeper gameplay. I read your posts and it comes across as if you are truly frightened that the present staus quo will change and move back towards massive multiplayer Worlds which was what the genre was all about in its infancy.
Ah... those were the days. Things made of PVC, VCM... no taxes on kerosene, no regulation to fuel consumption or emissions... Their legacy also includes the abandonment of thorium reactors because, unlike with uranium and plutonium, you couldn't make it go BOOM! And you loved making things go BOOM in the Southern Pacific. Asbestos anyone?
Yeah, we got a lot to learn alright...
It depends entirely what you pick and how you present it. Or if you have rose-tinted glasses on or not.
It really hasn't got anything to do with rose tinted glasses some ideas work and others don't and it doesn't matter what era they came from but you don't discount something just because its old do you? there is nothing wrong with looking to past for ideasand Vinyl records are the best sound you can get played on a proper turntable
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Humour bypass?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Actually Vinyl records produce a more accurate sound than even CDs. There are cases when older technologies can be superior to newer technologies. Superior in this case referring to sound quality only.
Someone gets it, woooo. but thats a been debated to hell and back for 30 years and we think MMORPG.com has circular arguments.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Actually Vinyl records produce a more accurate sound than even CDs. There are cases when older technologies can be superior to newer technologies. Superior in this case referring to sound quality only.
Was it that old games had a ton of content or that the content was much harder to reach? The first MMO I played was FFXI, and I seem to remember spending a lot of time grinding mobs and talking to my LS about all sorts of things. The 'content' was not provided by the game but by the interactions with people. If the leveling curve was not so draconian I am sure that people would have devoured the content just as quickly if not more so.
That being said I am not sure I could ever go back to that style of play. I believe I can consider myself an older gamer, I have been playing video games for a little over 20 years, and while I may wax nostalgically for the past I know two things. One is that I could always go back, and Two when I have gone back I always remember why I quit.
MMORPG players are a whinny bunch, maybe instead of pinning for the nirvana of all online games you should look to what brought us to games in first place , to enjoy our hobby with likeminded people and pretend that we look hot in spandex and metal bra’s.
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Actually Vinyl records produce a more accurate sound than even CDs. There are cases when older technologies can be superior to newer technologies. Superior in this case referring to sound quality only.
Someone gets it, woooo. but thats a been debated to hell and back for 30 years and we think MMORPG.com has circular arguments.
Good point I think I'll just back away from the whole issue altogether. A Vinyl debate is the last thing this site needs let alone this thread.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Actually Vinyl records produce a more accurate sound than even CDs. There are cases when older technologies can be superior to newer technologies. Superior in this case referring to sound quality only.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Over the past few months, the advice / things I've seen are that more businesses accept that most players will leave their MMO wihtin 6 months after launch.
Make the investment back on box sales and any subs after that is mostly profit. If the game has staying power, great! Expansion packs for more $$$.
People are treating MMOs like what they are, an entertainment product.
Players certainly do so why can't game makers?
My question is, why is this a 'bad' thing?
Game makers make more MMOs, more players play them and after awhile players / game makers move on to their next game.
I bought every Civilization / SimCity game that came out. I don't play the previous ones once I buy the current one though. Why can't MMOs be treated this way?
As long as the game makers make smart business decisions, I don't see a down side.
More MMOs for players to play and more game makers make money.
Someone may want an MMO that they'll play for years, but they are the minority.
The initial problem is they complain. If thats what they (enjoy) doing then they need to accept there is nothing else afterwards. But the bigger problem to me is the developers are structuring MMOs in this nature. Going in for the big initial rush, accepting decline and debating how to keep maintainance going (F2P, Free trial, etc).
Perhaps if they developed a persistent world that had systems that allowed the player to decide what they wanted to do they wouldnt end up in this scenario in the first place.
I've pretty much lost faith in the current MMO. They are no more than single player games I can play on my laptop with others. RPG content almost non-existent.
Waiting for someone to go back old school and current sites on ArcheAge and FF XIV (but no real faith there either).
I think we need more players who can create content, because the devs will never be able to create enough.
Create systems whereby players can keep themselves busy. Don't create content that is consumed, leaving a vaccum.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Was it that old games had a ton of content or that the content was much harder to reach? The first MMO I played was FFXI, and I seem to remember spending a lot of time grinding mobs and talking to my LS about all sorts of things. The 'content' was not provided by the game but by the interactions with people. If the leveling curve was not so draconian I am sure that people would have devoured the content just as quickly if not more so.
That being said I am not sure I could ever go back to that style of play. I believe I can consider myself an older gamer, I have been playing video games for a little over 20 years, and while I may wax nostalgically for the past I know two things. One is that I could always go back, and Two when I have gone back I always remember why I quit.
MMORPG players are a whinny bunch, maybe instead of pinning for the nirvana of all online games you should look to what brought us to games in first place , to enjoy our hobby with likeminded people and pretend that we look hot in spandex and metal bra’s.
Cheers
Rev
I dont think people who say they want to 'go back' mean to bring back systems as they were in the past. I would assume they meant bring back the mechancs albeit updated and a fresh canvas of graphical paint. Evolve the older content. Dont re-create it. There were some good ideas back then.
No one wants to grind (well I do, but Im special). But at the same time I dont want to run around with all of this action based combat and rush through level to get to an 'end game' that is never really finished or ready.
Take the best parts of the nirvanna because it worked, and improve the parts that didnt. But the current trends in MMOs are not setup for longevity, which is ironic since they want to ask for a monthly subscription.
If MMOs were B2P with no sub I dont think we wouldnt even be having this conversation.
.....Perhaps if they developed a persistent world that had systems that allowed the player to decide what they wanted to do they wouldnt end up in this scenario in the first place.....
CCP did just that, and they ended up with one of the only mmos to show growth over such an incredible amount of time. If it worked so well for "the internet spaceship game", then the sky's the limit.
An ocean of disposable mmos is not a good direction for the genre. It's a recipe for disaster.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Actually Vinyl records produce a more accurate sound than even CDs. There are cases when older technologies can be superior to newer technologies. Superior in this case referring to sound quality only.
In a way, there is way more to this article than it would first seem, regarding the discussions here.
In it there is a mention of loudness wars and that earlier CDs had bad sound because the conversion to digital used was bad.
It can very well be that the modern approach to mmorpgs may be better in some ways, but we are still plagued by "race to endgame" war and bad conversion from rpg , moreover it seems that devs more often than not say screw it and create our mmocds from low quality mp3s...
.....Perhaps if they developed a persistent world that had systems that allowed the player to decide what they wanted to do they wouldnt end up in this scenario in the first place.....
CCP did just that, and they ended up with one of the only mmos to show growth over such an incredible amount of time. If it worked so well for "the internet spaceship game", then the sky's the limit.
An ocean of disposable mmos is not a good direction for the genre. It's a recipe for disaster.
Intrestesing. Create the open world sandbox, but offer suggestions of what you can do at the outset to just get players pointed in the "right" direction (e.g the direction they want). Even couch these in NPCs -- not actually quests, but "just thingss you can do." Even voice them as rumors or hearsay. It'd be refreshing to be told -- "you can do anything" but here's the stuff that's going on in the area.
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Actually Vinyl records produce a more accurate sound than even CDs. There are cases when older technologies can be superior to newer technologies. Superior in this case referring to sound quality only.
someones blog doesn't make it fact.. but photo film is more superior then digital cameras.. digital cameras still haven't achieved the detail medium format can do.. anyways.. LOL
This thread is not really about content locust. Those are the players we all know who play 16 hours a day and reach the level cap a week after release.
What you're actually discussing is the different modern trend of game hopping. Something that was unknown back in the days when the choices were just UO, EQ and AC. People like to look at those first MMOs through rosé colored glasses and attribute magical qualities to the content... A type of grindy content few would tolerate today. You think games had more variety and less repetitive end-game content back then? That's not the way I remember it.
The main reason players didn't game-hop as much back then is obvious: there wasn't anything new to hop to. So we stuck around with the same people for a long time and made better friends and/or enemies. IMHO, continuing with a game because you have a lot of friends or rivals there is a much more powerful reason to stick with it than the content itself.
A lot of us who played those early games miss the stable communities we had there but the majority of current players never experienced it. They have always played in a time when we have literally hundreds of MMOS to choose from and where short-term communities with guilds that fall appart in a month or two are the norm. There is threa after thread here blaming the new games for this when the main reason we all game hop more now is that our friends are scattered all over the place.
Just look at the website for most large guilds these days. You'll see subsections for the 6 or 7 MMOs the guild members currently play. 10 years ago that just wasn't the case. One guild... One MMO.
So stop asking for MMOs that give you 2 years worth of content instead of 3 month's... You're going to leave in 3 months anyway when the next new shiny MMO is released and your friends go there.
In 2000 range the games i had to pick from were... 1. Nexustk 2. Darkages 3.Ragnarok 4. Lineage 5. EQ 6. daoc
7. elemental saga 8. Legend of Mir 9. ultima online 10. SWG 11. 12. Diablo2 13. El kardian
14. Savage Eden 15. Subspace 16. Meridan 59 17. Pristontale 18. Fairy Lands 19. Do Online 20. Asherons call
21. Graal 22. 23. Ogre island 24. UnderLight 25. Utopia
Truth is the 2007-2009 era had more games than these 3, however... were they quality? few. Also ive grouped a few from
later games because their primes were infact in beta. But as for comparing todays mmorpgs to games of 2004 or 2000
is hardly comparable. I had more games to pick from before 2009 than after 2009 for sure. And no i dont count all
the browser or 99% of the f2p games. i dont consider most quality. But even in 2000 i had waaay more options for
a quality game than i do now.
O
Your info is so skewed.
All you are saying is that geeks and nerds are early adapters and so were online first, and geeks and nerds like video games.
Therefore since there was a greater percentage of people that played EQ of the total online than today that makes it more popular.
Flawed logic. They were the same market, early adapters and video game lovers.
Conversely many of that same group left EQ and other games when more casual games became more friendly - so I guess they weren't really that great. Also even Smedley stated that over 1.5 milion people tried EQ and didn't stick around, so again I guess not that popular.
All EQ was, was a great game for the people that liked it back then. Many tried it and didn't like it.
Your Info is skewed, And your first statement is a sterotype and incorrect, But guess what? i bet
you are going to think you are right reguardless.
Your logic is Flawed, Nothing better to show the popularity of a game in different era's. Please
Mr.Smartguy show me how else you could do that?
*facepalms herself* I fell for another troll.
Destiny has cheated me By forcing me to decide upon The woman that I idolise Or the hands of an automaton
Without these hands I can't complete The opera that was captivating her But if I keep them, and she marries him Then he probably won't want me dating her
Sometimes I just sit back and think God almighty will he ever get of the me me me me horse, just because something is old doesn't make it redundant, when I was a kid in the 70's we recycled naturally a thing that was with us because of the World War 2 and its after effects through the 50's and 60's but that soon changed in the late 70's, 80's and we turned into the disposable society until we realised we couldn't sustain this type of society and thus the massive rethinking and movement towards older ideas started, renewable fuels anyone? There is lots to learn and reuse from older ideas and we can learn a lot from what made older MMO's have longevity, better communities and deeper gameplay. I read your posts and it comes across as if you are truly frightened that the present staus quo will change and move back towards massive multiplayer Worlds which was what the genre was all about in its infancy.
Just because something is old does not make it good either. Do you still ride on horses or do you drive a car? Do engineers still use slide rules?
I am not frightened. I am just amused that people would like old ideas instead of new ones when they talk so much about innovations. I think someone is either deluding themselves, or being hypocritical.
And if the world goes back to old MMOs, it is not like i don't have other entertainment choices. Heck, i don't even play much MMOs since there are so many good SP, and online games out there.
I think it is also interesting to see how some of you waving the "virtual world is what it is about in its infancy" flag. So what? Thing change. Video games are about people putting quarters into a machine to beat repetitive stage of moving object in its infancy. It has little relevance today.
In 2000 range the games i had to pick from were... 1. Nexustk 2. Darkages 3.Ragnarok 4. Lineage 5. EQ 6. daoc
7. elemental saga 8. Legend of Mir 9. ultima online 10. SWG 11. 12. Diablo2 13. El kardian
14. Savage Eden 15. Subspace 16. Meridan 59 17. Pristontale 18. Fairy Lands 19. Do Online 20. Asherons call
21. Graal 22. 23. Ogre island 24. UnderLight 25. Utopia
Truth is the 2007-2009 era had more games than these 3, however... were they quality? few. Also ive grouped a few from
later games because their primes were infact in beta. But as for comparing todays mmorpgs to games of 2004 or 2000
is hardly comparable. I had more games to pick from before 2009 than after 2009 for sure. And no i dont count all
the browser or 99% of the f2p games. i dont consider most quality. But even in 2000 i had waaay more options for
a quality game than i do now.
O
Your info is so skewed.
All you are saying is that geeks and nerds are early adapters and so were online first, and geeks and nerds like video games.
Therefore since there was a greater percentage of people that played EQ of the total online than today that makes it more popular.
Flawed logic. They were the same market, early adapters and video game lovers.
Conversely many of that same group left EQ and other games when more casual games became more friendly - so I guess they weren't really that great. Also even Smedley stated that over 1.5 milion people tried EQ and didn't stick around, so again I guess not that popular.
All EQ was, was a great game for the people that liked it back then. Many tried it and didn't like it.
Your Info is skewed, And your first statement is a sterotype and incorrect, But guess what? i bet
you are going to think you are right reguardless.
Your logic is Flawed, Nothing better to show the popularity of a game in different era's. Please
Mr.Smartguy show me how else you could do that?
*facepalms herself* I fell for another troll.
geeks and nerds is a stereotype yes. However gamers by and large are early adopters. So your info is still skewed, gamers and early adopters are the same market.
Any information about popularity by market share is going to be skewed just because of that fact. They are the same market. There is nothing you can point to.
If you cannot see that link than I can't help you.
edit - 2ndly you are cherry picking games. You are pretty much looking at all games in 2000 whether they are in prime or not, or AAA or not. Yet in 2005 and today you are only looking at prime games.
There are hundreds of MMO"s today. Please use the same criteria. Savage Eden, ogre island, fairy tale.. were never AAA or even A and they and M59 were far from their prime. Please use the same criteria. Either prime games then and prime today, or AAA then and AAA today or all then and all today. Either way there is an order of magnitude more games today than in the past.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Older MMO's had longevity because they were the only options out there not to mention there werent as many players. Back in the day the genre was just getting started and everything was new, now we have seen things done so many ways they can't keep up with what the next guy is putting out. Say this year we have a new system for combat, a few months later the next guy has a different take on combat with some different way to PvP. The first guy loses because he is stuck with old PvP.
example for me...
EQ was fun, but it was the only option for 3d MMORPG eventually I got bored but still played because it was the only option that attracted me. DAoC came out and I left to play that, 3 faction PvP was more of what I wanted then the PvP in EQ. Lag and crap expansions were to blame for me leaving that, but even before that it was starting to get boring and I was looking for the next new way to spend my gaming hours.
I think there is only so much you can do in a game before you reach the wall... or something else grabs your attention that has better systems then the game your playing.
I have not found a game so good that it keeps me playing and interested in it forever. I don't think there will ever be a game like that. I think some people are chasing the dragon so to speak with MMORPG's. One will never be as good as your first time, but you will keep searching.
Comments
It really hasn't got anything to do with rose tinted glasses some ideas work and others don't and it doesn't matter what era they came from but you don't discount something just because its old do you? there is nothing wrong with looking to past for ideasand Vinyl records are the best sound you can get played on a proper turntable
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Does it really frighten you so much that someone states their opinion about what games they like and what games they will play?
He and many others have also stated modern MMO's have problems, what they are and what they would like them to be.
From his perspective he and they have learned from history, which is why they are not made that way.
The only difference between your post and his post is, you are ragging on him, and stating something different.
Of course not many other things can be played on a turntable.
Ofcourse it does! These people think the old games would work as they are with just a facelift (=graphics update)! They are delusional. Surely you can see that?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Who are "these people"? sweeping generalisation don't make a good basis for an argument.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Actually Vinyl records produce a more accurate sound than even CDs. There are cases when older technologies can be superior to newer technologies. Superior in this case referring to sound quality only.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Humour bypass?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Someone gets it, woooo.
but thats a been debated to hell and back for 30 years and we think MMORPG.com has circular arguments.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
No.
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/audio-designline-blog/4033468/Audio-myth-Vinyl-better-than-CD-
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Hello
Was it that old games had a ton of content or that the content was much harder to reach? The first MMO I played was FFXI, and I seem to remember spending a lot of time grinding mobs and talking to my LS about all sorts of things. The 'content' was not provided by the game but by the interactions with people. If the leveling curve was not so draconian I am sure that people would have devoured the content just as quickly if not more so.
That being said I am not sure I could ever go back to that style of play. I believe I can consider myself an older gamer, I have been playing video games for a little over 20 years, and while I may wax nostalgically for the past I know two things. One is that I could always go back, and Two when I have gone back I always remember why I quit.
MMORPG players are a whinny bunch, maybe instead of pinning for the nirvana of all online games you should look to what brought us to games in first place , to enjoy our hobby with likeminded people and pretend that we look hot in spandex and metal bra’s.
Cheers
Rev
Good point
I think I'll just back away from the whole issue altogether. A Vinyl debate is the last thing this site needs let alone this thread.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
LOL.
Calerxes was right! That didn't take long at all.
/backs away
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The initial problem is they complain. If thats what they (enjoy) doing then they need to accept there is nothing else afterwards. But the bigger problem to me is the developers are structuring MMOs in this nature. Going in for the big initial rush, accepting decline and debating how to keep maintainance going (F2P, Free trial, etc).
Perhaps if they developed a persistent world that had systems that allowed the player to decide what they wanted to do they wouldnt end up in this scenario in the first place.
I've pretty much lost faith in the current MMO. They are no more than single player games I can play on my laptop with others. RPG content almost non-existent.
Waiting for someone to go back old school and current sites on ArcheAge and FF XIV (but no real faith there either).
I think we need more players who can create content, because the devs will never be able to create enough.
Create systems whereby players can keep themselves busy. Don't create content that is consumed, leaving a vaccum.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I dont think people who say they want to 'go back' mean to bring back systems as they were in the past. I would assume they meant bring back the mechancs albeit updated and a fresh canvas of graphical paint. Evolve the older content. Dont re-create it. There were some good ideas back then.
No one wants to grind (well I do, but Im special). But at the same time I dont want to run around with all of this action based combat and rush through level to get to an 'end game' that is never really finished or ready.
Take the best parts of the nirvanna because it worked, and improve the parts that didnt. But the current trends in MMOs are not setup for longevity, which is ironic since they want to ask for a monthly subscription.
If MMOs were B2P with no sub I dont think we wouldnt even be having this conversation.
CCP did just that, and they ended up with one of the only mmos to show growth over such an incredible amount of time. If it worked so well for "the internet spaceship game", then the sky's the limit.
An ocean of disposable mmos is not a good direction for the genre. It's a recipe for disaster.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
In a way, there is way more to this article than it would first seem, regarding the discussions here.
In it there is a mention of loudness wars and that earlier CDs had bad sound because the conversion to digital used was bad.
It can very well be that the modern approach to mmorpgs may be better in some ways, but we are still plagued by "race to endgame" war and bad conversion from rpg
, moreover it seems that devs more often than not say screw it and create our mmocds from low quality mp3s...
Flame on!
Intrestesing. Create the open world sandbox, but offer suggestions of what you can do at the outset to just get players pointed in the "right" direction (e.g the direction they want). Even couch these in NPCs -- not actually quests, but "just thingss you can do." Even voice them as rumors or hearsay. It'd be refreshing to be told -- "you can do anything" but here's the stuff that's going on in the area.
someones blog doesn't make it fact.. but photo film is more superior then digital cameras.. digital cameras still haven't achieved the detail medium format can do.. anyways.. LOL
This is spot on -- nailed it.
Your Info is skewed, And your first statement is a sterotype and incorrect, But guess what? i bet
you are going to think you are right reguardless.
Your logic is Flawed, Nothing better to show the popularity of a game in different era's. Please
Mr.Smartguy show me how else you could do that?
*facepalms herself* I fell for another troll.
Destiny has cheated me
By forcing me to decide upon
The woman that I idolise
Or the hands of an automaton
Without these hands I can't complete
The opera that was captivating her
But if I keep them, and she marries him
Then he probably won't want me dating her
Just because something is old does not make it good either. Do you still ride on horses or do you drive a car? Do engineers still use slide rules?
I am not frightened. I am just amused that people would like old ideas instead of new ones when they talk so much about innovations. I think someone is either deluding themselves, or being hypocritical.
And if the world goes back to old MMOs, it is not like i don't have other entertainment choices. Heck, i don't even play much MMOs since there are so many good SP, and online games out there.
I think it is also interesting to see how some of you waving the "virtual world is what it is about in its infancy" flag. So what? Thing change. Video games are about people putting quarters into a machine to beat repetitive stage of moving object in its infancy. It has little relevance today.
geeks and nerds is a stereotype yes. However gamers by and large are early adopters. So your info is still skewed, gamers and early adopters are the same market.
Any information about popularity by market share is going to be skewed just because of that fact. They are the same market. There is nothing you can point to.
If you cannot see that link than I can't help you.
edit - 2ndly you are cherry picking games. You are pretty much looking at all games in 2000 whether they are in prime or not, or AAA or not. Yet in 2005 and today you are only looking at prime games.
There are hundreds of MMO"s today. Please use the same criteria. Savage Eden, ogre island, fairy tale.. were never AAA or even A and they and M59 were far from their prime. Please use the same criteria. Either prime games then and prime today, or AAA then and AAA today or all then and all today. Either way there is an order of magnitude more games today than in the past.
Older MMO's had longevity because they were the only options out there not to mention there werent as many players. Back in the day the genre was just getting started and everything was new, now we have seen things done so many ways they can't keep up with what the next guy is putting out. Say this year we have a new system for combat, a few months later the next guy has a different take on combat with some different way to PvP. The first guy loses because he is stuck with old PvP.
example for me...
EQ was fun, but it was the only option for 3d MMORPG eventually I got bored but still played because it was the only option that attracted me. DAoC came out and I left to play that, 3 faction PvP was more of what I wanted then the PvP in EQ. Lag and crap expansions were to blame for me leaving that, but even before that it was starting to get boring and I was looking for the next new way to spend my gaming hours.
I think there is only so much you can do in a game before you reach the wall... or something else grabs your attention that has better systems then the game your playing.
I have not found a game so good that it keeps me playing and interested in it forever. I don't think there will ever be a game like that. I think some people are chasing the dragon so to speak with MMORPG's. One will never be as good as your first time, but you will keep searching.
I dont want rushed ugly mmorpgs with no subtsance that last only 6 months, would be the end of mmorpgs as we know it.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit