I am a subbing customer and I enjoy the game. However iI would not suggest this to any F2P customer, it is so painful for them. I played on the PTS of 1.5 and as a free to play customer and sadly you just don't get what I think you should as a f2p customer. The cash shop is't bad but the restrictions are just ridiculous. If they can fix their restrictions and make it more user friendly I think they could have a hit.
Originally posted by whitney I think the worst part for me in the free to play version is the credits jips. Come on, I do the quest and over and over again they till me "you'll get your credits" " heres your credits" then your quest complete pops up and on no you dont get credits you have to subscribe for that feature. I would say about 80 % of quest give you a credit reward and you feel like something is getting taken from you everytime. It's really unbearable ....
Huh? You mean they don't give you your quest reward of credits if you don't have a sub? This doesn't make any sense. Are you over the credit limit, that is the only thing that would even remotely make sense.
I started folowing SW:TOR in 2009, was in beta, bought the game, was bored as hell and left in march.
Now after few months and patches that finaly added the mechanics and content like all othe sub MMOs have I gave game a chance and payed for a month.
I am having a blast and best of all there are no Trolls and haters like in other games, you realy have to be fan of Star Wars cause game have so many good things to ofer when you hit lev 50 and much more are coming in near future.
Originally posted by whitney I think the worst part for me in the free to play version is the credits jips. Come on, I do the quest and over and over again they till me "you'll get your credits" " heres your credits" then your quest complete pops up and on no you dont get credits you have to subscribe for that feature. I would say about 80 % of quest give you a credit reward and you feel like something is getting taken from you everytime. It's really unbearable ....
Huh? You mean they don't give you your quest reward of credits if you don't have a sub? This doesn't make any sense. Are you over the credit limit, that is the only thing that would even remotely make sense.
There's a credit cap for f2p players, so if the f2p player doesn't spend down their credits (normal game currency) anything above that is vaporized. This is one of the community workarounds that guilds are doing with guildbanks for f2p since a guildbank will log deposits of currency. You can also increase the credit cap from 200K credits to 350K credits just by spending any amount of money on cartel coins and becoming a preferred player rather than pure f2p. That's reasonably generous, for normal everyday expenses. I don't think I've ever spent six figures of credits on anything.
So yeah, the person is complaining that because they can't find a friend or guild they trust to hold their credits or something to invest it in or spend it on, or spend a buck on the game, the game is ruined. Unless I am missing something major.
My understanding is that currency caps are there in many f2p to deter gold miners, and from what I know of this economy and what people have done to work around this one, I vigorously support it. Despite the precious lefty heroics in Doctorow's FTW, gold farmers suck and gold spam ruins a f2p game far faster than my aforementioned incursion of an international language crowd of actual players.
I played RaiderZ for about 2 days, and ran away because they did nothing to control the gold spam and had no graceful way to block it.
I enjoy SWTOR for the story and I disagreed with the idea of bringing in Free to Play but when Bioware/EA put on the restrictions I applauded them, why? because if your a free to player you shouldn't get anyone someone with a sub gets.
A few things this article completely misses, from the founders' point of view:
<snipped>
You sure used a lot of words to just say "Stop complaining".
I preordered the game, I feel it's my RIGHT to tell them why I quit their F2P version the first day of trying it.
There's zero justification for BW to make you pay to be able to choose a quest reward. It's ridiculous to charge for a fully functional UI. If people don't voice their concerns BW will just keep things as they are. Those F2P choices are pushing people away. A lot of whom probably won't give them a second chance.
It's nice that you enjoy the game. But F2P wasn't brought in to appease you. It was brought in to get people who left to return or people who didn't want to buy the game to try it. You should be focused on helping BW attract and keep players, rather than "working around" their limitations.
They should have just made it full access until one level before cap. The economy and pre-end game pvp would be fleshed out at those levels and if you wanted to play the endgame you simply sub'd. I simply do not have the patience to put up with all the restrictions of the current f2p nor like the game enough to pay a sub so BOTH options are still keeping me away.
I played it for a year, but one let down after another, I had to let it go. I cant see myself going back until they drastically change the direction of the game.
Like will all games which introduce f2P option along with p2P, initially the restrictions are severe. In time I am sure they are going to get rid of some controversial options... quickslot bars etc, just look at EQ2 and othe games... it just takes some time.
I think that they are going to wait until they have more items on Market. Honestly they placed only handful of stuff right now, and then let go some of restrictions, expecially UI,
You know what we need? We need to make a public appeal to Disney, after all they're the only one that can save SWTOR from EA. Then they can put effort in shaping up the game, adding endgame content and introduce a less greedy F2P option. Currently the F2P model is much more expensive than going back on a sub.
Like will all games which introduce f2P option along with p2P, initially the restrictions are severe. In time I am sure they are going to get rid of some controversial options... quickslot bars etc, just look at EQ2 and othe games... it just takes some time.I think that they are going to wait until they have more items on Market. Honestly they placed only handful of stuff right now, and then let go some of restrictions, expecially UI,That is my bet.
I admire your constant support for a game you like. Unfortunately your opinion doesn't hold any weight.
The game will get an initial push, but their stigma of being a bad game(subjective, I know) and greedy as hell and delusional devs wwill stay with them until they eventually shut down.
Let me just say, I stopped playing not because I cant afford the $15. I stopped playing due to it being a bad game in my pov. I'm a hardcore star wars fan, but I will not play a game I feel is lacking in every aspect of a mmo that I'm looking for.
The game to me is not worth the $15. And if they think their f2p system will entice me back? They're stupider than I thought.
The reason people quit wasn't the sub. At least to me anyway.
Like will all games which introduce f2P option along with p2P, initially the restrictions are severe. In time I am sure they are going to get rid of some controversial options... quickslot bars etc, just look at EQ2 and othe games... it just takes some time.
I think that they are going to wait until they have more items on Market. Honestly they placed only handful of stuff right now, and then let go some of restrictions, expecially UI,
That is my bet.
I like your optimism, but I don't see SWTOR lasting long enough to see it come to pass. I feel the restrictions will drive too many people away. And, you know when people leave an mmo, they don't usually go back to them except for the occasional visit.
The F2P model is pretty thin and they certainly cut the options to the bone. Spending $5 in their CS does loosen a few of the utterly stupid restrictions like delays in chat (that one really floored me).
I will say however that there are a LOT of live bodies. Chat is full of F2Ps and/or preferred F2Ps asking questions only new players would ask. The game is doing something, though only time will tell how much.
Personally, I would start to measure the effectiveness of F2P in 30-60 days and see if things are still busy. I don't see a lot of fixes in the game after a full year so will the tiresome factor get in the way even of the F2Ps who otherwise might soldier on? Time will tell.
Can we please STOP CALLING FREEMIUM GAMES FREE TO PLAY...jesus...its not hard.
They are not the same, not even CLOSE to being the same. It would be like calling MMORPG.com the same as The Wall Street Journal, they both have writers and you have to read it.
F2P is one animal, its an animal that has created the monster that is Nexon, a 1.2 billion DOLLAR a year earner, and it is quickly making several other companies as large as subscription game making companies...no freemium game can touch them, because freemium only fools a SMALL amount of people to spend money and even then, they hit the wall of garbage that IS THE GAME CALLED SWTOR.
That is the OTHER failing point of all freemiums. They game lost enough players they had to change the model, fail games are still fail and freemiums are just a lifeline to keep it going a little longer...its a cheap way to make money, going actual F2P would require them to put in far more time creating MICRO-transaction items for money and would require them to continually update the game...something most of these fail companies like Funcom and EA dont seem capable of doing.
Cant you see why we keep on beating the dead donkey ?
Because BW promised us TOR and we remembered the awful good game.
BW promised us a MMO with new features. And we remembered WoW.
And alot of people willing to forgive and forget and wanted to play were deceived.
You can't hurt that many people without leaving a mark. And then you ask why we complain ?
That is why we come back, time after time, and hit the dead donkey which should have been a horse. Because gaming industry, and notably EA should get a warning they can't mess with gamers. Bioware became worse then EA: they should have known better.
Amen..........
Couldnt of said it better myself....What is truly amazing is that so many people are clueless as to why Bioware committed suicide............
Also ppl are restricted from posting in the forum even those who buy the digital upgrade. God forbids you need to try contacting support because subscribers report that it takes up to 4 days to have their tickets answered ingame. As a player who purchased the digital upgrade im waiting for answer on my ticket for 10 days now.
“I sometimes fear what I write will affect businesses beyond the ones I am talking about in this piece. Still, I will press onward.”
Mr Barreiro as declared a vested interest. That is more than most journalists will do in any sector of society, well done for that.
“It's not so much 'pay to win' but 'pay to actually have something resembling a valid play experience.'”
I am not a fan of F2P but hybird models have their place. I think this is the right way to do a hybrid model. I was playing Aion the other day, you seem to be able to do everything a paying mamber can apart from use certain chat channels and be effective at top level. This to me is a horrible F2P set up. The idea of a good hybrid model should be to engcourage players to pay what is effectivly a sub. Not to pay to win.
Sadly the title is a tad misleading,i think of Freedom,i think of freeedom of choice in the game.This however relates ONLY to money,not a very good choice to decide on playing a game.
money matters IF you don't have any to spend,then obviously it really is not a choice either.Money matters IF the cost is so ridiculous,it does not warrant the spending.
Money in reality ,really only has two basic choices,F2P and a 15 dollar sub fee.There are variations on the 15 but usually involves LESS of the game and cash shop.So it is not like the choices are overwhelming.
First and foremost a game should offer FREEDOM in game play.Almost every single game that cpomes out now feels like a generic run of questing with no choice after your initial selection of starting areas.Some games don''t even offer choice fo starting areas and only have one starting area.
I feel cost should be designed into the game,if it becomes an afterthought,then it is really stretching on HOPE alone.if players don't like a game for 50 cents a day,why would they like it for free?if players don't have any money to spend,how will going cash shop change that?
VERY simple marketing,they bank on the free leechers creating that busy atmosphere to encourage spenders to play and keep playing.They hope that some of the game hoppers MIGHT drop in and spend a few bucks,but overall it is a weak strategy to make a profit,it is usually only after no choice in the matter that this becomes an option.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
All trues. But i think is short in the real damage this model is doing to the game.
Returned players will be driven off after 1 hour of trying to play this big mess. Even the weekly passes are just character bound, not for the entire account.
BW wants people pay 8$ for each character/month if they want to njoy just one part of their game. That is INSANE.
As I wrote to their customer service before leaving the game. This is not new ways of play the game choosing your gamestyle, this is new ways of drive off people who could be paying.
Like will all games which introduce f2P option along with p2P, initially the restrictions are severe. In time I am sure they are going to get rid of some controversial options... quickslot bars etc, just look at EQ2 and othe games... it just takes some time.
I think that they are going to wait until they have more items on Market. Honestly they placed only handful of stuff right now, and then let go some of restrictions, expecially UI,
That is my bet.
I'd agree with you if there was not literally 100's of games out with F2P options and TOR was the first jumping into the F2P market. It's not, TOR F2P is a gate to subscription which defeats the F2P "role" and EA's own stated reason for going F2P.
Also the "cash shop" is the worst ever for F2P - consisting of items intended but never released for the subscription (from ingame conversations) game.
You want to make money on TOR F2P? Try this: Release TOR F2P with 2 cash shop "new playable races".
Bottom line F2P was slapped together like the game was one year ago.
The SWTOR F2P conversion is nothing more than a flagrant act of profiteering.
I would really like to see some unified action on this tbh. Could someone sort out a petition that clearly outlines precisely what each subsection of the community has issue with? Perhaps if we get 50,000+ signatures we could effect some consumer influence on the b******s at Bioware.
People are just mad that everything is NOT free its free to play because you get the same stuff that people who paid 150 bucks for the game so the people who should be upset is that you only need to spend 5 bucks to get preferred and have the same stuff as some one who bought CE so stop the whining.
People who never bought the game should be happy they didnt spend 150 bucks or even 70. Gamers today just want everything for free and the xp thing is in alot of MMo's that are free, the only thing I disgree with for you guys that are F2p is Quickslots I think should be free and gear I think thats silly to make you pay for gear to even get.
So I see some thingsbioware needs to be fixed for you free to play players. A sub is 15 bucks that is nothing, so I don't get te problem, I rather sub to a game and enjoy what ever I want with out roadblocks..
15 bucks is a cheap Hobby so I don't get why people complain about a sub...
Yeah, I was actually stupid enough to sub about a month ago to give this game one more try because I want to play an online Star Wars game.
But I will just come out and say it. Even with a sub this game sucks. It is a boring tedious grind in a lifeless repetetive world, planet after planet. I forced myself to play for 3-4 days. Then I just gave up and uninstalled. Done. They couldn't pay me to play this game.
I'm sad and bitter that this is the only online Star Wars game we got from f---king Bioware. Huge disappointment. Did this site really give SWTOR an 8.7? Really?
Thats your opinion, and we have a right t ours there are alot of people who actually enjoy the game.... Just like GW2 or Halo I can't stand either and some people love it but do I go on their forums to bash it no! SO I don;t get why you think you can do it just to troll..
Anyone find the title of this thread ironic considering it is about a mmo that probably gives you the least amount of freedom of any mmo to date, the most linear, instanced and corridory mmo I've played.
Comments
Huh? You mean they don't give you your quest reward of credits if you don't have a sub? This doesn't make any sense. Are you over the credit limit, that is the only thing that would even remotely make sense.
I ll be quick:
I started folowing SW:TOR in 2009, was in beta, bought the game, was bored as hell and left in march.
Now after few months and patches that finaly added the mechanics and content like all othe sub MMOs have I gave game a chance and payed for a month.
I am having a blast and best of all there are no Trolls and haters like in other games, you realy have to be fan of Star Wars cause game have so many good things to ofer when you hit lev 50 and much more are coming in near future.
There's a credit cap for f2p players, so if the f2p player doesn't spend down their credits (normal game currency) anything above that is vaporized. This is one of the community workarounds that guilds are doing with guildbanks for f2p since a guildbank will log deposits of currency. You can also increase the credit cap from 200K credits to 350K credits just by spending any amount of money on cartel coins and becoming a preferred player rather than pure f2p. That's reasonably generous, for normal everyday expenses. I don't think I've ever spent six figures of credits on anything.
So yeah, the person is complaining that because they can't find a friend or guild they trust to hold their credits or something to invest it in or spend it on, or spend a buck on the game, the game is ruined. Unless I am missing something major.
My understanding is that currency caps are there in many f2p to deter gold miners, and from what I know of this economy and what people have done to work around this one, I vigorously support it. Despite the precious lefty heroics in Doctorow's FTW, gold farmers suck and gold spam ruins a f2p game far faster than my aforementioned incursion of an international language crowd of actual players.
I played RaiderZ for about 2 days, and ran away because they did nothing to control the gold spam and had no graceful way to block it.
I enjoy SWTOR for the story and I disagreed with the idea of bringing in Free to Play but when Bioware/EA put on the restrictions I applauded them, why? because if your a free to player you shouldn't get anyone someone with a sub gets.
{ Mod Edit }
You sure used a lot of words to just say "Stop complaining".
I preordered the game, I feel it's my RIGHT to tell them why I quit their F2P version the first day of trying it.
There's zero justification for BW to make you pay to be able to choose a quest reward. It's ridiculous to charge for a fully functional UI. If people don't voice their concerns BW will just keep things as they are. Those F2P choices are pushing people away. A lot of whom probably won't give them a second chance.
It's nice that you enjoy the game. But F2P wasn't brought in to appease you. It was brought in to get people who left to return or people who didn't want to buy the game to try it. You should be focused on helping BW attract and keep players, rather than "working around" their limitations.
You stay sassy!
I played one of my lowbie toons, cuz my main was too much a pain to play without proper toolbars.
I finished a quest at lvl 7 and the quest reward I should have got was for subs only....at lvl 7....
Not cool.
WoW is a disease that will infect your brain and your computer.
Like will all games which introduce f2P option along with p2P, initially the restrictions are severe. In time I am sure they are going to get rid of some controversial options... quickslot bars etc, just look at EQ2 and othe games... it just takes some time.
I think that they are going to wait until they have more items on Market. Honestly they placed only handful of stuff right now, and then let go some of restrictions, expecially UI,
That is my bet.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
I admire your constant support for a game you like. Unfortunately your opinion doesn't hold any weight.The game will get an initial push, but their stigma of being a bad game(subjective, I know) and greedy as hell and delusional devs wwill stay with them until they eventually shut down.
Let me just say, I stopped playing not because I cant afford the $15. I stopped playing due to it being a bad game in my pov. I'm a hardcore star wars fan, but I will not play a game I feel is lacking in every aspect of a mmo that I'm looking for.
The game to me is not worth the $15. And if they think their f2p system will entice me back? They're stupider than I thought.
The reason people quit wasn't the sub. At least to me anyway.
I like your optimism, but I don't see SWTOR lasting long enough to see it come to pass. I feel the restrictions will drive too many people away. And, you know when people leave an mmo, they don't usually go back to them except for the occasional visit.
The F2P model is pretty thin and they certainly cut the options to the bone. Spending $5 in their CS does loosen a few of the utterly stupid restrictions like delays in chat (that one really floored me).
I will say however that there are a LOT of live bodies. Chat is full of F2Ps and/or preferred F2Ps asking questions only new players would ask. The game is doing something, though only time will tell how much.
Personally, I would start to measure the effectiveness of F2P in 30-60 days and see if things are still busy. I don't see a lot of fixes in the game after a full year so will the tiresome factor get in the way even of the F2Ps who otherwise might soldier on? Time will tell.
Can we please STOP CALLING FREEMIUM GAMES FREE TO PLAY...jesus...its not hard.
They are not the same, not even CLOSE to being the same. It would be like calling MMORPG.com the same as The Wall Street Journal, they both have writers and you have to read it.
F2P is one animal, its an animal that has created the monster that is Nexon, a 1.2 billion DOLLAR a year earner, and it is quickly making several other companies as large as subscription game making companies...no freemium game can touch them, because freemium only fools a SMALL amount of people to spend money and even then, they hit the wall of garbage that IS THE GAME CALLED SWTOR.
That is the OTHER failing point of all freemiums. They game lost enough players they had to change the model, fail games are still fail and freemiums are just a lifeline to keep it going a little longer...its a cheap way to make money, going actual F2P would require them to put in far more time creating MICRO-transaction items for money and would require them to continually update the game...something most of these fail companies like Funcom and EA dont seem capable of doing.
Amen..........
Couldnt of said it better myself....What is truly amazing is that so many people are clueless as to why Bioware committed suicide............
Also ppl are restricted from posting in the forum even those who buy the digital upgrade. God forbids you need to try contacting support because subscribers report that it takes up to 4 days to have their tickets answered ingame. As a player who purchased the digital upgrade im waiting for answer on my ticket for 10 days now.
http://www.swtor.com/free/features
This chart is also a lie because :
First they restrict your acess to the forums and the ability to sell 5 items on the galactic trade network is missing !
“I sometimes fear what I write will affect businesses beyond the ones I am talking about in this piece. Still, I will press onward.”
Mr Barreiro as declared a vested interest. That is more than most journalists will do in any sector of society, well done for that.
“It's not so much 'pay to win' but 'pay to actually have something resembling a valid play experience.'”
I am not a fan of F2P but hybird models have their place. I think this is the right way to do a hybrid model. I was playing Aion the other day, you seem to be able to do everything a paying mamber can apart from use certain chat channels and be effective at top level. This to me is a horrible F2P set up. The idea of a good hybrid model should be to engcourage players to pay what is effectivly a sub. Not to pay to win.
Sadly the title is a tad misleading,i think of Freedom,i think of freeedom of choice in the game.This however relates ONLY to money,not a very good choice to decide on playing a game.
money matters IF you don't have any to spend,then obviously it really is not a choice either.Money matters IF the cost is so ridiculous,it does not warrant the spending.
Money in reality ,really only has two basic choices,F2P and a 15 dollar sub fee.There are variations on the 15 but usually involves LESS of the game and cash shop.So it is not like the choices are overwhelming.
First and foremost a game should offer FREEDOM in game play.Almost every single game that cpomes out now feels like a generic run of questing with no choice after your initial selection of starting areas.Some games don''t even offer choice fo starting areas and only have one starting area.
I feel cost should be designed into the game,if it becomes an afterthought,then it is really stretching on HOPE alone.if players don't like a game for 50 cents a day,why would they like it for free?if players don't have any money to spend,how will going cash shop change that?
VERY simple marketing,they bank on the free leechers creating that busy atmosphere to encourage spenders to play and keep playing.They hope that some of the game hoppers MIGHT drop in and spend a few bucks,but overall it is a weak strategy to make a profit,it is usually only after no choice in the matter that this becomes an option.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
All trues. But i think is short in the real damage this model is doing to the game.
Returned players will be driven off after 1 hour of trying to play this big mess. Even the weekly passes are just character bound, not for the entire account.
BW wants people pay 8$ for each character/month if they want to njoy just one part of their game. That is INSANE.
As I wrote to their customer service before leaving the game. This is not new ways of play the game choosing your gamestyle, this is new ways of drive off people who could be paying.
Shame of company, shame of game.
I'd agree with you if there was not literally 100's of games out with F2P options and TOR was the first jumping into the F2P market. It's not, TOR F2P is a gate to subscription which defeats the F2P "role" and EA's own stated reason for going F2P.
Also the "cash shop" is the worst ever for F2P - consisting of items intended but never released for the subscription (from ingame conversations) game.
You want to make money on TOR F2P? Try this: Release TOR F2P with 2 cash shop "new playable races".
Bottom line F2P was slapped together like the game was one year ago.
The SWTOR F2P conversion is nothing more than a flagrant act of profiteering.
I would really like to see some unified action on this tbh. Could someone sort out a petition that clearly outlines precisely what each subsection of the community has issue with? Perhaps if we get 50,000+ signatures we could effect some consumer influence on the b******s at Bioware.
Frankly, I'm disgusted.
People are just mad that everything is NOT free its free to play because you get the same stuff that people who paid 150 bucks for the game so the people who should be upset is that you only need to spend 5 bucks to get preferred and have the same stuff as some one who bought CE so stop the whining.
People who never bought the game should be happy they didnt spend 150 bucks or even 70. Gamers today just want everything for free and the xp thing is in alot of MMo's that are free, the only thing I disgree with for you guys that are F2p is Quickslots I think should be free and gear I think thats silly to make you pay for gear to even get.
So I see some thingsbioware needs to be fixed for you free to play players. A sub is 15 bucks that is nothing, so I don't get te problem, I rather sub to a game and enjoy what ever I want with out roadblocks..
15 bucks is a cheap Hobby so I don't get why people complain about a sub...
Thats your opinion, and we have a right t ours there are alot of people who actually enjoy the game.... Just like GW2 or Halo I can't stand either and some people love it but do I go on their forums to bash it no! SO I don;t get why you think you can do it just to troll..