The relevant question is how much of the total MMO market SWG had 2003-04?
Please let's not go there. Leave it to the bean-counters, they like sub-based argument crap.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I like how they say "It didn't fail, they shut it down because of a new SW game."
Did EQ1 shut down because of EQ2? AC2, AC1? How about Lineage line?
Many have died because lack of funding, others because of lack of support, but I only know ONE MMO that died because another company took the IP and claimed it could make a better game.
Many have died because lack of funding, others because of lack of support, but I only know ONE MMO that died because another company took the IP and claimed it could make a better game.
Well, there's Earth and Beyond (the first official 'company pulled the plug' failure). But that's way too early for most folks to remember.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
SWG wasnt a failure, they only shut it down to force people to go to SWTOR. Do believe that was said in an interview.
SWG was a braindead comatoze patient.
And the unbalance of classes is what made SWG unique, tired of people rushing to max level without actualy learning to play their class. And get owned and cry on the forums about unbalanced. When jedi's came out, so many whined about them, as a BH i would pop them like candy because i knew my class and was good at it. As a elder jedi i would always be staring at the map for a red dot to pop and kill me (bh).
true.
Flaws? The pure amount of content and features far out weighed the small about of issues. And the mechanics of the game were still great.
SWG did not have content at release....mounts were only brought in MONTHS later...it was a unfinished product.
The few dungeons that were ingame were good though, althouh ppl were already leaving at the very slow rate of content being added (if at all).
And pre-cu or NGE still doesnt matter, both were decent and better than 95% of the garbage released today. All those leaving due to the NGE have only played games like the NGE since, beacuse all games released since were like that (wow clone) lol.
I despise WOW, but even I have to admit WOW is 10000 zillions times better then the NGE.
Still the pure mmo features and the amount of them made SWG a great game with so much to do. I never once from day one launch to the time i left (8 months before shut down) I was never bored or waiting around for content.
community was keeping the game alive, there was very little content added. Geo cave was a open world farm zone for macro players, DWB was pretty good, Corvette was fun, that was it. Players werre already complaining about the non existant Galactic War.
Open worlds
was fun indeed
no forced pvp
ditto
great housing
Housing was good (internal)....the way they were placed in the game world was horrific BAD. 'Desert planets' were you couldnt ride a bike 10 yards without bumping into another -deserted- house.....every block of flat terrain on the planets had a house built on it....so much for immersion. Overhead map looked like a manhattan streetmap.
great crafting (the best in any mmo still to date)
VERY good
great social aspect (cantina's were awesome with the entertainers and community brothers)
AFK macro entertainers you mean? ^^
creatures on the world interacted with each other (would attack each other, etc....)
Pet system before the NGE was great
true
space was well done
Space was too small, no epic fights.
quest lines out the butt for the themepark lovers
Themeparks were very poor
difficulty varied leaving room for solo or group play
THAT was the winner, no dps-heal-tank group crap....
so muc more, SWG had 100 times moor real mmo features than any game released so far, its what made it a real mmo.
SWG wasn't a themepark, plain and simple, you kept on creating your own content/stories, whatever. no repeating the same dungeon daily to keep you subbed.
Dont see this as a failure at all.
it was a huge failure in the end due to very bad management, very arrogant attitude towards the community, bad sourcecode and lack of updates/bug fixes.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
"And the unbalance of classes is what made SWG unique, tired of people rushing to max level without actualy learning to play their class. And get owned and cry on the forums about unbalanced. When jedi's came out, so many whined about them, as a BH i would pop them like candy because i knew my class and was good at it. As a elder jedi i would always be staring at the map for a red dot to pop and kill me (bh)."
Yeah it took some serious skill... First you had to find a guide on the internet (ok this actually took a little skill back then) and then read it. It told you what skilsl to take and to what level (and in some cases in what order). Then you followd a link to another guide that had the best grind spot. Once there you and your medic pall went to a third guide and ctrl+C the macro's needed and then went in to the game and set them up. Then came the most difficult part... You initiated the macros.
One night at the pub later and you did it all over again for the next box.
Not to mention how you did it if you were a Image designer... all the macro all the way.
Actually pretty much everything was macroed to such a degree that got told by two different guilds that i due to the local political climate had to spec in to a combat proff (i was ID/Tailor at the time) or get kicked out, and this was not very uncommon.
I agree that the game was good and that it had a few very good ideas but the execution was sloppy and i agree each attempt to fix it made it worse... But not doing anything would have potentially killed the game too. Especially as the class imbalance most likley made encounter dificulty horrid to balance (If you are a PnP DM you know the problem, you have the guy who really like to min/max his character and just cleaves through anything as he is the only munchkin in the group and you need to have encounters that does not turn the rest of the party in to paste) not to mention PvP... '
As i said i would love to have a game such as this back (in aboout 30 years when i once again have the time to spend on it) but i do not want THIS particular game back.
It's obvious that a lot of people would want it to happen.
SWG had so many elements that players appreciated and loved.
It's 7 years ( SWG pre cu era ) since it was shut downed and still people talk about how they miss it.
With SWTOR's failure and the upcoming resurrection of SW, it's time to act.
A lot? How do you get that? SWG is a failed game. What is the max player base? is it even a million?
Exactly, SWG launched in the same climate WoW did, it had the Star Wars IP backing it... and failed. While WoW retained millions of players for a decade to come...
Don't want to compare the two ideologies behind these games, or what I think is the better game, or what I think about the armes of non-gamers that invaded multiplayer gaming during the last couple of years.
But from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft succeeded while SWG failed. No argueing about that.
It's obvious that a lot of people would want it to happen.
SWG had so many elements that players appreciated and loved.
It's 7 years ( SWG pre cu era ) since it was shut downed and still people talk about how they miss it.
With SWTOR's failure and the upcoming resurrection of SW, it's time to act.
A lot? How do you get that? SWG is a failed game. What is the max player base? is it even a million?
Exactly, SWG launched in the same climate WoW did, it had the Star Wars IP backing it... and failed. While WoW retained millions of players for a decade to come...
Don't want to compare the two ideologies behind these games, or what I think is the better game, or what I think about the armes of non-gamers that invaded multiplayer gaming during the last couple of years.
But from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft succeeded while SWG failed. No argueing about that.
M
I would also say that there are a lot of successful online games (with some relations to MMOs) that are highly successful but NOT in a virtual world SWG type design.
Diablo 3 .. sold 10M box, still #7 on xfire after 8 months.
LOL .. more active players than WOW.
Maple Story ...
So why would anyone want to go back to SWG? I think a Star War MOBA may be interesting. TOR is a failure not in the abiilty to attract players (heck, it has more players than SWG and Eve) but in terms of making money.
If TOR is made into an online RPG instead (dump the world), it probably would be a huge success business-wise. Just imagine selling 2M boxes with 1.7M sub for 3 month for a game without the investment of creating a world.
Originally posted by lizardbones IceWhite's post is relevant here. SWG peaked at 300k subscriptions. SWToR has well exceeded SWG's performance (so far). None of the features you listed matter and none of the posts talking about SWG's strong points matter. There has to be a financial reason to make such a game, and there isn't a financial reason to make such a game. I would expect to see several PC and console games based off of the new SW IP (which is going to have one of the original screen writers btw), but I wouldn't expect to see another MMORPG. ** edit ** Not on the scale of SWG or SWToR. Something like Clone Wars or a co-op multiplayer seems very likely.
If you want to play the number game you have to set the 300k in perspective to the total market.I think SWG was among the top three MMOs 2003-04.The relevant question is how much of the total MMO market SWG had 2003-04?
WoW had millions of players. Star Wars itself has millions of fans. SWG wasn't a critical or popular success.
** edit ** Nothing anyone says in these forums will change the lack of financial incentive for creating another SWG. People who are much more qualified than anyone who posts here are the ones making those types of decisions, and there's not even an inkling of a hint that there's another Star Wars MMORPG coming.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It's obvious that a lot of people would want it to happen.
SWG had so many elements that players appreciated and loved.
It's 7 years ( SWG pre cu era ) since it was shut downed and still people talk about how they miss it.
With SWTOR's failure and the upcoming resurrection of SW, it's time to act.
A lot? How do you get that? SWG is a failed game. What is the max player base? is it even a million?
Exactly, SWG launched in the same climate WoW did, it had the Star Wars IP backing it... and failed. While WoW retained millions of players for a decade to come...
Don't want to compare the two ideologies behind these games, or what I think is the better game, or what I think about the armes of non-gamers that invaded multiplayer gaming during the last couple of years.
But from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft succeeded while SWG failed. No argueing about that.
M
Would you be so kind and tell us what other mmos that did not failed, compared to wow?
My guess is you will find none; your point is quite moot if the only viable option is to succeed as wow.
But from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft succeeded while SWG failed. No argueing about that.
M
But from a business standpoint Mario Bros. games succeeded while WoW failed.No argueing about that.
Oh I bet there is lots of arguing about that. Trying to find a references but I would bet that WoW has sold more units that the entire mario brothers franchise.
edit - still cant' find any. Just a few people (and no industry experts or market analysts stating that mario sold between 30 and 40 million). But we have Blizzard stating that only 30% of people stay past level 10 which means that at least 36million accounts were created, this was back in feb. 2010. So we have about 30-40 million possibly for both. No one would ever consider either a failure.
But from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft succeeded while SWG failed. No argueing about that.
M
But from a business standpoint Mario Bros. games succeeded while WoW failed.No argueing about that.
Oh I bet there is lots of arguing about that. Trying to find a references but I would bet that WoW has sold more units that the entire mario brothers franchise.
nice so WoW sold about 400 000 000 - 500 000 000 units . not bad.
But from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft succeeded while SWG failed. No argueing about that.
M
But from a business standpoint Mario Bros. games succeeded while WoW failed.No argueing about that.
Oh I bet there is lots of arguing about that. Trying to find a references but I would bet that WoW has sold more units that the entire mario brothers franchise.
nice so WoW sold about 400 000 000 - 500 000 000 units . not bad.
I cant' find any evidence at all suggesting that mario sold anywhere close to that. If you have something please post it.
Find one source, debate on the credibility, stating 240 million units sold for the entire franchise. Pretty darn good. Now we have 30-40 million WoW, how many for warcraft 1 and 2. Compare game to game or franchise to franchise.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
But from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft succeeded while SWG failed. No argueing about that.
M
But from a business standpoint Mario Bros. games succeeded while WoW failed.No argueing about that.
Oh I bet there is lots of arguing about that. Trying to find a references but I would bet that WoW has sold more units that the entire mario brothers franchise.
nice so WoW sold about 400 000 000 - 500 000 000 units . not bad.
"Mario is the #1best selling franchise in the world appearing in over 200 games and selling more than 285 million units".
It is less than 300M units. 300M units, at roughly $40 each is like $12B.
And do you count subs from WOW too? Every 3 month sub ($45) is like selling a new game. So 10M sub a year is like selling 40M copies. WOW is generating more than $1B a year for a while. In fact, in 2012, WOW made 1.4B .. just in sub, not counting MOP, and selling virtual phonies.
But from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft succeeded while SWG failed. No argueing about that.
M
But from a business standpoint Mario Bros. games succeeded while WoW failed.No argueing about that.
Oh I bet there is lots of arguing about that. Trying to find a references but I would bet that WoW has sold more units that the entire mario brothers franchise.
nice so WoW sold about 400 000 000 - 500 000 000 units . not bad.
I cant' find any evidence at all suggesting that mario sold anywhere close to that. If you have something please post it.
Find one source, debate on the credibility, stating 240 million units sold for the entire franchise. Pretty darn good. Now we have 30-40 million WoW, how many for warcraft 1 and 2. Compare game to game or franchise to franchise.
Warcraft is a fictional universe in which a series of games and books published by Blizzard Entertainment are set. The franchise also includes tabletop games, collectible card games and an upcoming movie. Figure doesn't include World of Warcraft.
-
Cant find WoW from the list,reasons can be many,they count free accounts,gift accounts ,trials etc.
Edit: wow is not listed even at atleast 5 millions copies sold product.
Comments
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I like how they say "It didn't fail, they shut it down because of a new SW game."
Did EQ1 shut down because of EQ2? AC2, AC1? How about Lineage line?
Many have died because lack of funding, others because of lack of support, but I only know ONE MMO that died because another company took the IP and claimed it could make a better game.
SWG endured a Full Loot Fail....
Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games
Well, there's Earth and Beyond (the first official 'company pulled the plug' failure). But that's way too early for most folks to remember.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
"And the unbalance of classes is what made SWG unique, tired of people rushing to max level without actualy learning to play their class. And get owned and cry on the forums about unbalanced. When jedi's came out, so many whined about them, as a BH i would pop them like candy because i knew my class and was good at it. As a elder jedi i would always be staring at the map for a red dot to pop and kill me (bh)."
Yeah it took some serious skill... First you had to find a guide on the internet (ok this actually took a little skill back then) and then read it. It told you what skilsl to take and to what level (and in some cases in what order). Then you followd a link to another guide that had the best grind spot. Once there you and your medic pall went to a third guide and ctrl+C the macro's needed and then went in to the game and set them up. Then came the most difficult part... You initiated the macros.
One night at the pub later and you did it all over again for the next box.
Not to mention how you did it if you were a Image designer... all the macro all the way.
Actually pretty much everything was macroed to such a degree that got told by two different guilds that i due to the local political climate had to spec in to a combat proff (i was ID/Tailor at the time) or get kicked out, and this was not very uncommon.
I agree that the game was good and that it had a few very good ideas but the execution was sloppy and i agree each attempt to fix it made it worse... But not doing anything would have potentially killed the game too. Especially as the class imbalance most likley made encounter dificulty horrid to balance (If you are a PnP DM you know the problem, you have the guy who really like to min/max his character and just cleaves through anything as he is the only munchkin in the group and you need to have encounters that does not turn the rest of the party in to paste) not to mention PvP... '
As i said i would love to have a game such as this back (in aboout 30 years when i once again have the time to spend on it) but i do not want THIS particular game back.
This have been a good conversation
A lot? How do you get that? SWG is a failed game. What is the max player base? is it even a million?
Exactly, SWG launched in the same climate WoW did, it had the Star Wars IP backing it... and failed. While WoW retained millions of players for a decade to come...
Don't want to compare the two ideologies behind these games, or what I think is the better game, or what I think about the armes of non-gamers that invaded multiplayer gaming during the last couple of years.
But from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft succeeded while SWG failed. No argueing about that.
M
I would also say that there are a lot of successful online games (with some relations to MMOs) that are highly successful but NOT in a virtual world SWG type design.
Diablo 3 .. sold 10M box, still #7 on xfire after 8 months.
LOL .. more active players than WOW.
Maple Story ...
So why would anyone want to go back to SWG? I think a Star War MOBA may be interesting. TOR is a failure not in the abiilty to attract players (heck, it has more players than SWG and Eve) but in terms of making money.
If TOR is made into an online RPG instead (dump the world), it probably would be a huge success business-wise. Just imagine selling 2M boxes with 1.7M sub for 3 month for a game without the investment of creating a world.
But from a business standpoint Mario Bros. games succeeded while WoW failed.No argueing about that.
Let's internet
WoW had millions of players. Star Wars itself has millions of fans. SWG wasn't a critical or popular success.
** edit **
Nothing anyone says in these forums will change the lack of financial incentive for creating another SWG. People who are much more qualified than anyone who posts here are the ones making those types of decisions, and there's not even an inkling of a hint that there's another Star Wars MMORPG coming.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Would you be so kind and tell us what other mmos that did not failed, compared to wow?
My guess is you will find none; your point is quite moot if the only viable option is to succeed as wow.
No. From a business standpoint Mario Bros games succeeded, and WOW is a smaller success. SWG, OTOH, is a failure.
Lineage, LOL, Maple Story, GW ...
LOL even has more active players than WOW.
GW sold millions.
Oh I bet there is lots of arguing about that. Trying to find a references but I would bet that WoW has sold more units that the entire mario brothers franchise.
edit - still cant' find any. Just a few people (and no industry experts or market analysts stating that mario sold between 30 and 40 million). But we have Blizzard stating that only 30% of people stay past level 10 which means that at least 36million accounts were created, this was back in feb. 2010. So we have about 30-40 million possibly for both. No one would ever consider either a failure.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/blizzard-70-percent-of-new-wow-players-dont-get-past-level-10_1
nice so WoW sold about 400 000 000 - 500 000 000 units . not bad.
Let's internet
I cant' find any evidence at all suggesting that mario sold anywhere close to that. If you have something please post it.
edit - http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/Horizons/2010/0914/Super-Mario-Bros.-has-sold-how-many-copies
Find one source, debate on the credibility, stating 240 million units sold for the entire franchise. Pretty darn good. Now we have 30-40 million WoW, how many for warcraft 1 and 2. Compare game to game or franchise to franchise.
GW isnt a mmo
Lineage 1 was shut down
maple story? what is that a cartoon mmo?
Any game to last 8 years is not a failure. 90% of the games today fall within 6 months or go f2p which is a failure.
Where did you get the 400M to 500M units?
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Mario
"Mario is the #1 best selling franchise in the world appearing in over 200 games and selling more than 285 million units".
It is less than 300M units. 300M units, at roughly $40 each is like $12B.
And do you count subs from WOW too? Every 3 month sub ($45) is like selling a new game. So 10M sub a year is like selling 40M copies. WOW is generating more than $1B a year for a while. In fact, in 2012, WOW made 1.4B .. just in sub, not counting MOP, and selling virtual phonies.
275.73 million[n 1]
Let's internet