If i go berzerk and pay SWTOR sub now and that money goes to some dev who then gets moment of super innovation and he developes some cash shop item "Good Sith flower armor +5 "
And they assume that im also going to buy that item with real money.
I see lots of complaints about the "free" games here.
Some people can't deal with progress and would rant about any change.
F2P *is* the future. More and more games are F2P .. either first, or converting to F2P.
Some people are stuck in the past yes but I dont think that really is the case here.
The problem really is that so called "freemium" games often gets rather expensive if you play them more than a little. Companies like EA and Activision arent changing how you pay for your games out of kindess, they are doing it to increase their earnings which means the gamers will have to pay more.
This isnt the case with all F2P and B2P games, but with many of them.
F2P is the currently best way to charge the customers for the companies but that does not mean it is the best for us.
The upside is that you get more of a trial than the 2 weeks or 20 levels standard we seen before but the bad news is that anything extra will cost you money, and in some cases a lot of it. And that doesnt just go for MMOs, EA and Activision both have stated that they orefer if all their future games will be F2P so expect that FPS and RTS games a few years from now will be free but just with one or a few races/classes and you will have to pay for anything extra. Getting all of the content will cost you a lot more than buying the entire game cost right now.
Already are they selling stuff that were free until recently. CIV5 charges for the few added civilizations that they used to patch in for free, DA 1 & 2 charges us through the noose for really small content patches like the emporium and so on.
Most of us arent protesting against F2P as such but against the price for the content of the games going up a lot. Try buying all the stuff in TORs RMT shop and compare that to the 15 bucks monthly and box cost and youll see what I mean.
-> In the beginning they make the cash shop not too owerpowered, to attract many players.
-> The whales enter the game (those are the rich people and rich kids, with way more money than you and me)
-> Once they have the whales they want to get all the money out of them they can.
-> What they do to achieve this is adding more and more powerful and costly items so the whales spend more and more.
-> What also happens is that they sacrifice the freeby players since many leave because the game becomes cash shop ortiented and all the content is tailored towards the whales. That's also why F2P games die so fast.
That's horrible for gaming.
I also feel that cash shop F2P on PC in MMO is something completely different than DLC on consoles, often they are compared. F2P is limitless spending, they always have items that let someone spend limitless, some gift box or something, DLC is a one time purchase.
F2P is the future of marketing, more so than of gaming. What used to be called a free trial is now marketed as "free to play". And considering that basically every game gets a free trial eventually, nearly everything eventually gets marketed as free to play.
really i think in the end B2P is the future with buying content packs to boost the game. f2p is a morbidly built system in which they don't really add content at all but boosters for the character. F2P would work quite well with a good structure system. none of the companies so far has a good structure built into it. if I where a ceo or cfo and was running a game based off of f2p and found the right structure it would be in place yet some tecno cyber grub would then jack it all up in the name of making more money. that is why we don't have a good f2p system yet. B2P is going to be the new way to go for any top AAA+ mmo to really come to the forfront right now we only have people in place in the companies that think they know the customer base and think they know the market. the market is still ripe for a good harvest but you need to get rid of the dead plants in this cyber crop which is simply hard to do at this point.
Originally posted by extolrox really i think in the end B2P is the future with buying content packs to boost the game. f2p is a morbidly built system in which they don't really add content at all but boosters for the character. F2P would work quite well with a good structure system. none of the companies so far has a good structure built into it. if I where a ceo or cfo and was running a game based off of f2p and found the right structure it would be in place yet some tecno cyber grub would then jack it all up in the name of making more money. that is why we don't have a good f2p system yet. B2P is going to be the new way to go for any top AAA+ mmo to really come to the forfront right now we only have people in place in the companies that think they know the customer base and think they know the market. the market is still ripe for a good harvest but you need to get rid of the dead plants in this cyber crop which is simply hard to do at this point.
Do I have bad news for you... All gametypes typically B2P now will be F2P in a few years if EAs and Activisions CEOs have a saying. Both have already said so in interviews.
FPS, RTS, single player RPG, Action, sports... all those genres will most likely be F2P in a few years.
As for MMOs few B2P exists. Next I know of to release is Undead labs Class 4 but that is most likely 2 years away still. GW2 have done fine but not enough to persuade the big ones that the future is in B2P.
Yes, Free to Play is the future. But do you really think the developers are doing this for the sake of us gamers? Hell no. It's all about the money now. Here is a direct quote from EA CEO John Riccitiello from a stockholder meeting last year.
“When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you’re really not that price sensitive at that point in time."
Publishers will do whatever they think will maximize income potential.
That drives the combination of four things:
1. Mainstream design for mass-market appeal.
2. Free to Play for mass-market penetration.
3. Desirable cash shop items.
4. Limited potential of non-payers to complete the game or be competitive.
The future? The way I see it, this is happening already.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Yes, Free to Play is the future. But do you really think the developers are doing this for the sake of us gamers? Hell no. It's all about the money now. Here is a direct quote from EA CEO John Riccitiello from a stockholder meeting last year.
“When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you’re really not that price sensitive at that point in time."
Yes, Free to Play is the future. But do you really think the developers are doing this for the sake of us gamers? Hell no. It's all about the money now. Here is a direct quote from EA CEO John Riccitiello from a stockholder meeting last year.
“When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you’re really not that price sensitive at that point in time."
Free to Play? Yes
Free to Enjoy? Not so much
Sadly, people are begging for this.
dunno about that if i think consoles.
50 miscrotransaction games on my console.
Who the heck wants to even buy that kind of demons machine of death.
And then comes SOE ,hear us we have this new payment model called subscription and our new game using this model is called SWG 2.
I liked how consoles worked in the past. You buy the game, it's yours, you don't need to "activate it", if the internet goes out you can still play and if the company goes belly up you still have your game, no patches, no downloads, awesome.
I see lots of complaints about the "free" games here.
Some people can't deal with progress and would rant about any change.
F2P *is* the future. More and more games are F2P .. either first, or converting to F2P.
Why do you think it is "progress"? Why do you think it's the future? When will this "F2P is the future" start kicking in?
And if I'm not mistaken, all you "progress", "change", and "moving forward" types are the ones complaining about being milked in all these "free" games. SWTOR, EQ, PS2. Then there's issues with games like GW2. The forum threads speak for themselves.
I'd rather pay a $15 sub than spend the average $28 per month on cash shops.
except the majority pay nothing.
Yes, the majority that sadly doesn't stick around too long cause they can't compete
The one thing people never bring up is the overall turn over rate for these F2P games. Its pretty abysmal.
Its just as high as the people that buy a new mmo and stick around for the free month before leaving.
Yes, Free to Play is the future. But do you really think the developers are doing this for the sake of us gamers? Hell no. It's all about the money now. Here is a direct quote from EA CEO John Riccitiello from a stockholder meeting last year.
“When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you’re really not that price sensitive at that point in time."
The issue for me isn't F2P itself, there is nothing wrong with F2P.
The issue is when you take F2P into a game environment that relies on a progression model and you link the progression to a cash shop. Your enjoyment of the game starts to depend on how much you spend in the cash shop in some MMO.
I have nothing against the F2P model, I just can't stand how it's done in MMO. I accepted it in GW (not GW2) where you pay for the box, I accepted it when items were purely cosmetic, what I can't stand is when your progression and gameplay become less fun because you're not spending hundreds of dollars every month in a cash shop.
Yes, the majority that sadly doesn't stick around too long cause they can't compete
The one thing people never bring up is the overall turn over rate for these F2P games. Its pretty abysmal.
And that's the thing the majority do pay nothing. It's a horrible business model becvause it relies upon a minority to support the majority and that majority doesn't really contribute all that much.
Why is it a horrible business model? So the minority subsidize the majority? So what? The model is viable as long as there is such a minority spending enough money.
I see lots of complaints about the "free" games here.
Some people can't deal with progress and would rant about any change.
F2P *is* the future. More and more games are F2P .. either first, or converting to F2P.
Why do you think it is "progress"? Why do you think it's the future? When will this "F2P is the future" start kicking in?
And if I'm not mistaken, all you "progress", "change", and "moving forward" types are the ones complaining about being milked in all these "free" games. SWTOR, EQ, PS2. Then there's issues with games like GW2. The forum threads speak for themselves.
I'd rather pay a $15 sub than spend the average $28 per month on cash shops.
Because a) if you read the stats, F2P is growing .. so just by looking at the trend, it is the future. It has grown tremendously in the last 2-3 year and i will say it is here.
b) It provides a flexible payment system, and that a minority will subsidize the majority.
I never complain. I have yet to pay a dime. There is no issue. If someone want to buy virtual goods to subsidize my games, i am more than happy to let them do so.
I'd rather pay NOTHING than pay a $15 sub, particularly when i am having fun at the free game.
I see lots of complaints about the "free" games here.
Some people can't deal with progress and would rant about any change.
F2P *is* the future. More and more games are F2P .. either first, or converting to F2P.
Some people can't allow different type of changes, or allow the old to stick around while the new progresses. You should know that first hand!
How? I play SP games, MMORPGs, online ARPGs, MMOFPS .. and accept new features (like LFD) instead of holding onto past ideas (like virtual worlds).
F2P is obviously newer than P2P .. don't you agree with that?
F2P is obviously newer than P2P you ask. The clear answer is no unless you are very narrowly focused on the recent period of video gaming. F2P has been around since the begining of video gaming. People devolping games on university, government and research computers either as part of research or as a fun side project is the origin of computer gaming. Only when it became viable did the monetization start with games like pong. But make no mistake, people have been playing computer games for free forever. Just take a look at PLATO.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I see lots of complaints about the "free" games here.
Some people can't deal with progress and would rant about any change.
F2P *is* the future. More and more games are F2P .. either first, or converting to F2P.
Some people can't allow different type of changes, or allow the old to stick around while the new progresses. You should know that first hand!
How? I play SP games, MMORPGs, online ARPGs, MMOFPS .. and accept new features (like LFD) instead of holding onto past ideas (like virtual worlds).
F2P is obviously newer than P2P .. don't you agree with that?
F2P is obviously newer than P2P you ask. The clear answer is no unless you are very narrowly focused on the recent period of video gaming. F2P has been around since the begining of video gaming. People devolping games on university, government and research computers either as part of research or as a fun side project is the origin of computer gaming. Only when it became viable did the monetization start with games like pong. But make no mistake, people have been playing computer games for free forever. Just take a look at PLATO.
I am talking about commercial video games as entertainment products. Not hobbies that only 50 grad students would ever enjoy.
Even Pong is P2P. The phenomenon of F2P with massive (millions) of players is pretty much recent. And we are not just talking about playing a game for free. We are talking about a business model with cash shops and ads, and stuff like that. There is no cash shop on PLATO, right?
Comments
If i go berzerk and pay SWTOR sub now and that money goes to some dev who then gets moment of super innovation and he developes some cash shop item "Good Sith flower armor +5 "
And they assume that im also going to buy that item with real money.
Also im supporting free™ riders with my sub.
Something is wrong with f2p model.
Let's internet
Oh, I see all the threads. That's why I asked what happened. Looks like a failed idea to me. The multiple whine threads prove it.
Some people are stuck in the past yes but I dont think that really is the case here.
The problem really is that so called "freemium" games often gets rather expensive if you play them more than a little. Companies like EA and Activision arent changing how you pay for your games out of kindess, they are doing it to increase their earnings which means the gamers will have to pay more.
This isnt the case with all F2P and B2P games, but with many of them.
F2P is the currently best way to charge the customers for the companies but that does not mean it is the best for us.
The upside is that you get more of a trial than the 2 weeks or 20 levels standard we seen before but the bad news is that anything extra will cost you money, and in some cases a lot of it. And that doesnt just go for MMOs, EA and Activision both have stated that they orefer if all their future games will be F2P so expect that FPS and RTS games a few years from now will be free but just with one or a few races/classes and you will have to pay for anything extra. Getting all of the content will cost you a lot more than buying the entire game cost right now.
Already are they selling stuff that were free until recently. CIV5 charges for the few added civilizations that they used to patch in for free, DA 1 & 2 charges us through the noose for really small content patches like the emporium and so on.
Most of us arent protesting against F2P as such but against the price for the content of the games going up a lot. Try buying all the stuff in TORs RMT shop and compare that to the 15 bucks monthly and box cost and youll see what I mean.
F2P is bad for gaming, I'll explain why:
-> In the beginning they make the cash shop not too owerpowered, to attract many players.
-> The whales enter the game (those are the rich people and rich kids, with way more money than you and me)
-> Once they have the whales they want to get all the money out of them they can.
-> What they do to achieve this is adding more and more powerful and costly items so the whales spend more and more.
-> What also happens is that they sacrifice the freeby players since many leave because the game becomes cash shop ortiented and all the content is tailored towards the whales. That's also why F2P games die so fast.
That's horrible for gaming.
I also feel that cash shop F2P on PC in MMO is something completely different than DLC on consoles, often they are compared. F2P is limitless spending, they always have items that let someone spend limitless, some gift box or something, DLC is a one time purchase.
Do I have bad news for you... All gametypes typically B2P now will be F2P in a few years if EAs and Activisions CEOs have a saying. Both have already said so in interviews.
FPS, RTS, single player RPG, Action, sports... all those genres will most likely be F2P in a few years.
As for MMOs few B2P exists. Next I know of to release is Undead labs Class 4 but that is most likely 2 years away still. GW2 have done fine but not enough to persuade the big ones that the future is in B2P.
Yes, Free to Play is the future. But do you really think the developers are doing this for the sake of us gamers? Hell no. It's all about the money now. Here is a direct quote from EA CEO John Riccitiello from a stockholder meeting last year.
“When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you’re really not that price sensitive at that point in time."
Free to Play? Yes
Free to Enjoy? Not so much
Future=sucks
I would rather pay a sub, than worry about something being p2w or so inconvienient that it is rediculous...
Not much out that is even worth playing, even if it is free, imo.
Publishers will do whatever they think will maximize income potential.
That drives the combination of four things:
1. Mainstream design for mass-market appeal.
2. Free to Play for mass-market penetration.
3. Desirable cash shop items.
4. Limited potential of non-payers to complete the game or be competitive.
The future? The way I see it, this is happening already.
Sadly, people are begging for this.
dunno about that if i think consoles.
50 miscrotransaction games on my console.
Who the heck wants to even buy that kind of demons machine of death.
And then comes SOE ,hear us we have this new payment model called subscription and our new game using this model is called SWG 2.
Let's internet
Not really, is deah of quality gaming. Only this.
you know... prophets. so many around, all telling us what "the future" will be like.
out of 100000 maybe maybe 12 have been right, simple math tho :P
(just guessing numbers here)
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Its just as high as the people that buy a new mmo and stick around for the free month before leaving.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
If you don't enjoy it, why do you play?
I say "Free to play *and* enjoy".
The issue for me isn't F2P itself, there is nothing wrong with F2P.
The issue is when you take F2P into a game environment that relies on a progression model and you link the progression to a cash shop. Your enjoyment of the game starts to depend on how much you spend in the cash shop in some MMO.
I have nothing against the F2P model, I just can't stand how it's done in MMO. I accepted it in GW (not GW2) where you pay for the box, I accepted it when items were purely cosmetic, what I can't stand is when your progression and gameplay become less fun because you're not spending hundreds of dollars every month in a cash shop.
Why is it a horrible business model? So the minority subsidize the majority? So what? The model is viable as long as there is such a minority spending enough money.
Because a) if you read the stats, F2P is growing .. so just by looking at the trend, it is the future. It has grown tremendously in the last 2-3 year and i will say it is here.
b) It provides a flexible payment system, and that a minority will subsidize the majority.
I never complain. I have yet to pay a dime. There is no issue. If someone want to buy virtual goods to subsidize my games, i am more than happy to let them do so.
I'd rather pay NOTHING than pay a $15 sub, particularly when i am having fun at the free game.
it will be the future until it becomes the past. deep eh
tides turn. skinny ties will be popular again.
trials should be the future. f2p? i don't care. their successes (or failures) will determine everything.
You = The Man.
F2P is obviously newer than P2P you ask. The clear answer is no unless you are very narrowly focused on the recent period of video gaming. F2P has been around since the begining of video gaming. People devolping games on university, government and research computers either as part of research or as a fun side project is the origin of computer gaming. Only when it became viable did the monetization start with games like pong. But make no mistake, people have been playing computer games for free forever. Just take a look at PLATO.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I am talking about commercial video games as entertainment products. Not hobbies that only 50 grad students would ever enjoy.
Even Pong is P2P. The phenomenon of F2P with massive (millions) of players is pretty much recent. And we are not just talking about playing a game for free. We are talking about a business model with cash shops and ads, and stuff like that. There is no cash shop on PLATO, right?