No, I read the report correctly. My point is this - the Funcom haters have been pointing to the Q3 report to show that TSW was 'dying' and Funcom was 'dying' - or that TSW's F2P switch was 'imminent' - none of which has been borne out by this report.
"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."
Although TSW is making money, the report showed debt. It does not look like they will be able to pay that debt by the end of 2013.
There's no question that sales have been a bismal and the whole thing has been disappointing, but money is being made, millions. The need for the company to get out of debt will push them to make moves to increase revenue.
The question is, do they think that f2p will help them increase revenue and help get the company out of debt. Pretty iffy at this point if you ask me.
Well yes, they are making money. Just not enough, they spend more money than what they make. You just don't get rid of spending, they basically have a project that is not making the amount of money they need it to make compared to the amount of cost. Thats why they are reducing cost and changing the business model:
"Due to lower sales of The Secret World than expected, the Company initiated significant cost-cut measures...."
"...the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."
No, I read the report correctly. My point is this - the Funcom haters have been pointing to the Q3 report to show that TSW was 'dying' and Funcom was 'dying' - or that TSW's F2P switch was 'imminent' - none of which has been borne out by this report.
Yes, I am still content.
Did you not read my post entirely??
"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."
"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."
"As part of the process of optimizing the revenue for the game, the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."
"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q"
No, I read the report correctly. My point is this - the Funcom haters have been pointing to the Q3 report to show that TSW was 'dying' and Funcom was 'dying' - or that TSW's F2P switch was 'imminent' - none of which has been borne out by this report.
Yes, I am still content.
Did you not read my post entirely(or the report for that matter)??
"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."
"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."
"As part of the process of optimizing the revenue for the game, the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."
"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q"
Yes Kuppa (as I said before), I read your bullet points the first time - and yes, I read the report as well.
No, I read the report correctly. My point is this - the Funcom haters have been pointing to the Q3 report to show that TSW was 'dying' and Funcom was 'dying' - or that TSW's F2P switch was 'imminent' - none of which has been borne out by this report.
Yes, I am still content.
Did you not read my post entirely(or the report for that matter)??
"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."
"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."
"As part of the process of optimizing the revenue for the game, the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."
"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q"
Yes Kuppa (as I said before), I read your bullet points the first time - and yes, I read the report as well.
So why do you think the game is doing well financially, or FC for that matter. And how do you think they will not go F2P or some other business model? I'm just trying to figure out if I missed something myself because this report seems pretty obviously grim.
So why do you think the game is doing well financially, or FC for that matter. And how do you think they will not go F2P or some other business model? I'm just trying to figure out if I missed something myself because this report seems pretty obviously grim.
The report is no bed of roses, but neither is it 'obviously grim' except to those who wish to view it so.
According to the report, we have these hard numbers to review:
Quarterly revenues (TUSD):
3Q 2011: 4,766
2Q 2012: 2,557
3Q 2012: 10,963
EBITDA (TUSD):
3Q 2011: -716
2Q 2012: -9,850
3Q 2012: 2,634
These revanue numbers are positive - in fact, they show significant leaps between Q2 and Q3. From the report, this revanue increase is due mainly to TSW and AoC. These are hard and fast numbers, not open to speculation or 'well these numbers don't actually mean what they seem to mean'.
Whether those numbers as a percentage of growth is sustainable is another question altogether, but nonetheless, these are positive numbers.
Let's also look at some of the quotes that are floating around, and make sure they are being used in their entirety, instead of being selectively quoted.
"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q. The refined and updated business model will include new and increased PR and marketing initiatives."
"Due to lower sales of The Secret World than expected, the Company initiated significant cost-cut measures. Amongst other factors, such as the development of a LEGO game, based on the Minifigures line, the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."
"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."
While a F2P conversion is always possible, until the consulting group finishes their analysis there's nothing further to be gained by rampant speculation about it.
The end result as things stand right now? Cashflow. Positive.
So why do you think the game is doing well financially, or FC for that matter. And how do you think they will not go F2P or some other business model? I'm just trying to figure out if I missed something myself because this report seems pretty obviously grim.
The report is no bed of roses, but neither is it 'obviously grim' except to those who wish to view it so.
According to the report, we have these hard numbers to review:
Quarterly revenues (TUSD):
3Q 2011: 4,766
2Q 2012: 2,557
3Q 2012: 10,963
EBITDA (TUSD):
3Q 2011: -716
2Q 2012: -9,850
3Q 2012: 2,634
These revanue numbers are positive - in fact, they show significant leaps between Q2 and Q3. From the report, this revanue increase is due mainly to TSW and AoC. These are hard and fast numbers, not open to speculation or 'well these numbers don't actually mean what they seem to mean'.
Whether those numbers as a percentage of growth is sustainable is another question altogether, but nonetheless, these are positive numbers.
Let's also look at some of the quotes that are floating around, and make sure they are being used in their entirety, instead of being selectively quoted.
"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q. The refined and updated business model will include new and increased PR and marketing initiatives."
"Due to lower sales of The Secret World than expected, the Company initiated significant cost-cut measures. Amongst other factors, such as the development of a LEGO game, based on the Minifigures line, the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."
"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."
While a F2P conversion is always possible, until the consulting group finishes their analysis there's nothing further to be gained by rampant speculation about it.
The end result as things stand right now? Cashflow. Positive.
Yes, they will have positive numbers compared to a quarter with no new game releases this is pretty easy to understand but VERY naive to think that's the whole story. Even FC acknowledges that this will drop in the next quarter and will likely continue to drop in 2013.
In fact the report is not only about how things are doing at this very moment, which it is positive cashflow, but it also projects to how things will be, which is not positive cashflow. Why do you ignore those?
Not sure what you added by adding some other text for some of the quotes, they still paint the same grim picture.
After the Black Friday sales and other current sales intiatives, and the large influx from City Of Heroes shutdown at the end of this month you may see that the fourth quarter will paint a rather different picture. We are also picking up players that were recently chagrined by Guild Wars 2.
Then there is the upcoming tokyo zone which should generate an interesting buzz from the asian gamers. This may indeed be part of "refining the business model" for all we know.
Im not giving up yet, no matter how much the "Paint it Black" crowd want to have a big cry. I still feel it was the best release this year and will continue to support it.
Everyone screams for more hardcore games and that is pretty much what Funcom gives them, yet they are still tanking. Either the hardcore niche isn't sustainable or they have to make them with much less overhead.
Everyone screams for more hardcore games and that is pretty much what Funcom gives them, yet they are still tanking. Either the hardcore niche isn't sustainable or they have to make them with much less overhead.
Lol the game is not hard at all. Those investigative missions are interesting but not hard. It only seems hard.
Originally posted by JKwervo Originally posted by VorthanionEveryone screams for more hardcore games and that is pretty much what Funcom gives them, yet they are still tanking. Either the hardcore niche isn't sustainable or they have to make them with much less overhead.
Lol the game is not hard at all. Those investigative missions are interesting but not hard. It only seems hard.
If someone thinks, "These missions seem hard", that pretty much means the missions are hard. Just sayin'.
"Different" doesn't always mean "Better". Just because TSW is different from other MMORPG out right now doesn't mean it's the thing that many people are looking for. I think they did a good job reaching the game's target incarnation. I think their target incarnation was off though. It targets a niche audience that is really small. Like...people who read books about conspiracies and mysteries, but who also play video games and who are into urban fantasy...but not really urban fantasy...more urban spiritual mystery. Or something. I can't even isolate a genre for the game's content. I like it, but I don't think a lot of people are going to get into the game and think to themselves, "This is IT!"
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Vorthanion Everyone screams for more hardcore games and that is pretty much what Funcom gives them, yet they are still tanking. Either the hardcore niche isn't sustainable or they have to make them with much less overhead.
Lol the game is not hard at all. Those investigative missions are interesting but not hard. It only seems hard.
Some of those missions are hard. That is, if you don't google the answer.
Yes, they will have positive numbers compared to a quarter with no new game releases this is pretty easy to understand but VERY naive to think that's the whole story. Even FC acknowledges that this will drop in the next quarter and will likely continue to drop in 2013.
In fact the report is not only about how things are doing at this very moment, which it is positive cashflow, but it also projects to how things will be, which is not positive cashflow. Why do you ignore those?
Not sure what you added by adding some other text for some of the quotes, they still paint the same grim picture.
Kupp the words you are choosing are not the same as the ones used. They said revenue would be less 4th qt this year as compared to 4th qt last year. No where did they say they expect revenue to drop. Those are your words.
The report is not all roses, it's disappointing, but it's not what you are trying to make it be.
So what you're saying is the birthday gift I got containing The Secret World was a wasted one? Hmm...guess I'll have to return it for the 30.00 US someone spent on it.
Yes, they will have positive numbers compared to a quarter with no new game releases this is pretty easy to understand but VERY naive to think that's the whole story. Even FC acknowledges that this will drop in the next quarter and will likely continue to drop in 2013.
In fact the report is not only about how things are doing at this very moment, which it is positive cashflow, but it also projects to how things will be, which is not positive cashflow. Why do you ignore those?
Not sure what you added by adding some other text for some of the quotes, they still paint the same grim picture.
Kupp the words you are choosing are not the same as the ones used. They said revenue would be less 4th qt this year as compared to 4th qt last year. No where did they say they expect revenue to drop. Those are your words.
The report is not all roses, it's disappointing, but it's not what you are trying to make it be.
"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."
One thing nobody has mentioned is that the company could go private, and no longer be a publicly traded company. I don't know how likely this is, and I don't know that they'd survive such a transition intact, but being private would allow them to do some things that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do as a public company.
For instance, going B2P would probably tank the company stock to 0. Their only income is from subscriptions. They would take a huge hit unless and until they could get a lot of people to make an initial purchase. That huge hit prevents them from doing anything that drastic.
Meh. It's possible, but unlikely.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
After the Black Friday sales and other current sales intiatives, and the large influx from City Of Heroes shutdown at the end of this month you may see that the fourth quarter will paint a rather different picture. We are also picking up players that were recently chagrined by Guild Wars 2.
Then there is the upcoming tokyo zone which should generate an interesting buzz from the asian gamers. This may indeed be part of "refining the business model" for all we know.
Im not giving up yet, no matter how much the "Paint it Black" crowd want to have a big cry. I still feel it was the best release this year and will continue to support it.
Your clutching at straws.
TSW should arguably never have been a MMO, as a single player co-op game it would have done far better imo. It's too linear.
TSW should never have had a top-end sub, it can't be justified.
FC should never have tried to mik the cow from both ends, subs + cash shop = epic fail unless your one of the few who can pull it off (WOW).
FC promised the earth and delivered a marble.
FC got greedy and it is rapidly killing their game.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
There were simply too many people who refused to buy a funcom game on day 1. A lot of people were going to wait a month or two to read real player reviews. But within that time, the big news we got was that they were firing half their devs, including the vision guy.
If Funcom hadn´t of ruined their reputation, more people would have jumped into the game on day one and saved those dev jobs.
Comments
No, I read the report correctly. My point is this - the Funcom haters have been pointing to the Q3 report to show that TSW was 'dying' and Funcom was 'dying' - or that TSW's F2P switch was 'imminent' - none of which has been borne out by this report.
Yes, I am still content.
Well yes, they are making money. Just not enough, they spend more money than what they make. You just don't get rid of spending, they basically have a project that is not making the amount of money they need it to make compared to the amount of cost. Thats why they are reducing cost and changing the business model:
"Due to lower sales of The Secret World than expected, the Company initiated significant cost-cut measures...."
"...the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."
Did you not read my post entirely??
"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."
"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."
"As part of the process of optimizing the revenue for the game, the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."
"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q"
Yes Kuppa (as I said before), I read your bullet points the first time - and yes, I read the report as well.
So why do you think the game is doing well financially, or FC for that matter. And how do you think they will not go F2P or some other business model? I'm just trying to figure out if I missed something myself because this report seems pretty obviously grim.
The report is no bed of roses, but neither is it 'obviously grim' except to those who wish to view it so.
According to the report, we have these hard numbers to review:
Quarterly revenues (TUSD):
3Q 2011: 4,766
2Q 2012: 2,557
3Q 2012: 10,963
EBITDA (TUSD):
3Q 2011: -716
2Q 2012: -9,850
3Q 2012: 2,634
These revanue numbers are positive - in fact, they show significant leaps between Q2 and Q3. From the report, this revanue increase is due mainly to TSW and AoC. These are hard and fast numbers, not open to speculation or 'well these numbers don't actually mean what they seem to mean'.
Whether those numbers as a percentage of growth is sustainable is another question altogether, but nonetheless, these are positive numbers.
Let's also look at some of the quotes that are floating around, and make sure they are being used in their entirety, instead of being selectively quoted.
"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q. The refined and updated business model will include new and increased PR and marketing initiatives."
"Due to lower sales of The Secret World than expected, the Company initiated significant cost-cut measures. Amongst other factors, such as the development of a LEGO game, based on the Minifigures line, the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."
"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."
While a F2P conversion is always possible, until the consulting group finishes their analysis there's nothing further to be gained by rampant speculation about it.
The end result as things stand right now? Cashflow. Positive.
Yes, they will have positive numbers compared to a quarter with no new game releases this is pretty easy to understand but VERY naive to think that's the whole story. Even FC acknowledges that this will drop in the next quarter and will likely continue to drop in 2013.
In fact the report is not only about how things are doing at this very moment, which it is positive cashflow, but it also projects to how things will be, which is not positive cashflow. Why do you ignore those?
Not sure what you added by adding some other text for some of the quotes, they still paint the same grim picture.
After the Black Friday sales and other current sales intiatives, and the large influx from City Of Heroes shutdown at the end of this month you may see that the fourth quarter will paint a rather different picture. We are also picking up players that were recently chagrined by Guild Wars 2.
Then there is the upcoming tokyo zone which should generate an interesting buzz from the asian gamers. This may indeed be part of "refining the business model" for all we know.
Im not giving up yet, no matter how much the "Paint it Black" crowd want to have a big cry. I still feel it was the best release this year and will continue to support it.
Lol the game is not hard at all. Those investigative missions are interesting but not hard. It only seems hard.Lol the game is not hard at all. Those investigative missions are interesting but not hard. It only seems hard.
If someone thinks, "These missions seem hard", that pretty much means the missions are hard. Just sayin'.
"Different" doesn't always mean "Better". Just because TSW is different from other MMORPG out right now doesn't mean it's the thing that many people are looking for. I think they did a good job reaching the game's target incarnation. I think their target incarnation was off though. It targets a niche audience that is really small. Like...people who read books about conspiracies and mysteries, but who also play video games and who are into urban fantasy...but not really urban fantasy...more urban spiritual mystery. Or something. I can't even isolate a genre for the game's content. I like it, but I don't think a lot of people are going to get into the game and think to themselves, "This is IT!"
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Some of those missions are hard. That is, if you don't google the answer.
Kupp the words you are choosing are not the same as the ones used. They said revenue would be less 4th qt this year as compared to 4th qt last year. No where did they say they expect revenue to drop. Those are your words.
The report is not all roses, it's disappointing, but it's not what you are trying to make it be.
What led me to Guild Wars 2
General Discussion « Guild Wars 2
9/07/12 11:54:57 AM
I was a nomadic player. But Guild Wars 2 has definitely hooked me and I have explained it on my blog.
http://adoboblognetwork.com/
It just has everything I've ever looked for in a MMO.
"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."
Their words, not mine.
One thing nobody has mentioned is that the company could go private, and no longer be a publicly traded company. I don't know how likely this is, and I don't know that they'd survive such a transition intact, but being private would allow them to do some things that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do as a public company.
For instance, going B2P would probably tank the company stock to 0. Their only income is from subscriptions. They would take a huge hit unless and until they could get a lot of people to make an initial purchase. That huge hit prevents them from doing anything that drastic.
Meh. It's possible, but unlikely.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
What led me to Guild Wars 2
General Discussion « Guild Wars 2
9/07/12 11:54:57 AM
I was a nomadic player. But Guild Wars 2 has definitely hooked me and I have explained it on my blog.
http://adoboblognetwork.com/
It just has everything I've ever looked for in a MMO.
Lol your point?I enjoy GW2 more than I did TSW.
Your clutching at straws.
TSW should arguably never have been a MMO, as a single player co-op game it would have done far better imo. It's too linear.
TSW should never have had a top-end sub, it can't be justified.
FC should never have tried to mik the cow from both ends, subs + cash shop = epic fail unless your one of the few who can pull it off (WOW).
FC promised the earth and delivered a marble.
FC got greedy and it is rapidly killing their game.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
TSW failed because of AOC.
There were simply too many people who refused to buy a funcom game on day 1. A lot of people were going to wait a month or two to read real player reviews. But within that time, the big news we got was that they were firing half their devs, including the vision guy.
If Funcom hadn´t of ruined their reputation, more people would have jumped into the game on day one and saved those dev jobs.