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My Main Concern
Zekiah
Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
Ok so, there's only 5 days left in the Kickstarter and no combat video. This concerns me. Much.
I'm ready to throw down some cash on this game along with a friend of mine but I can't justify doing that unless I see some combat video and animations. Of the animations I've seen, they look to be a bit clunky and I'm concerned about the quality of animation work by whoever is doing that on their team. Yeah, yeah, they're only placeholders you say. I've heard that all before, many times. "We'll get around to fixing that later, trust us", I can't tell you how many times I've heard that one.
Now look, I've seen the graphics on their website and Kickstarter page and they are top-notch. The UI needs work but the environment, terrain, character skins... all of that is... well sick. It's way more than what I'd expect from a small dev team. The details in everything is just plain sick. Whoever is working on that stuff is bad ***.
So, where's that promised combat video? 5 days and ticking here, let's get this thing done. Prove me wrong, show me the goods. Prove to me that you got just as much a bad *** doing animations and combat.
Do that and I'll gladly grab my friend and toss some coin your way. Do you prefer gold or silver? 
Git 'r dun!
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Comments
That's because the characters, animals, houses, enviroment assets are all purchased from generic premade sets at the unity store. I am surprised this issue has not been raised here yet. See if any of this looks familiar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQ2Yo-lDig&feature=channel&list=UL
http://u3d.as/content/dexsoft-games/wealthy-medieval-citizen/2Ez
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/104212-3dFoin-Professional-Dragon-Model/page2
http://www.the3dstudio.com/product_details.aspx?id_product=279850
http://arteria3d.com/collections/animated-characters/animals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br21v3GFb9k
Frankly it's pretty easy to make a nice looking video using the Unity3D engine and assets packs. YouTube is filled with wonderful videos that would make impressive looking games, just do a search for "Unity RPG" (Killstar also sells some great environemtnal asset packs). Then add some text about how "it will be sandbox MMO and just like Ultima Online!" and you have a great kickstarter promotion. I already covered most of my concerns about this project in this thread on another game's forums, and Jason already knows how I personally feel about his project : http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/69845-greed-monger/
I love sandbox games and would love to see a whole lot of them come out in the upcoming year -- anything that uses the keywords "open world sandbox with crafting" generally gets a huge thumbs up from me. But this is not one of the projects that I will be supporting.
I have no objection to small self-funded indie devs using Unity and premade assets to make a sandbox game, the problem I have with this project I already covered in the thread linked above. It has to do with not being very candid about many aspects of the project. I don't think we'll be seeing the combat video released before the kickstarter promotion ends, but I guess we will find out one wasy or the other very soon.
http://brashendeavors.net/
Those issues have been raised already. Based on the above responses I would say for you two not to back it at this early of a stage. Wait it until it come out and then listen to what people say.
I backed it because the these days, IN MY OPINION, the worst sandboxes out there blow the most popular themeparks out of the water, PERSONALLY.
In addition Brash I find it odd how someone would be so obsessed with badmouthing a indie mmo. If its a bad game then so be it. It wouldn't be the 1st time an indie studio promised more than they can chew off. In other words why spend soooo much time not liking how a developer didn't seem candid enuf for you. Besides you don't have to back it if you don't want.
And as a final thought, be kind to people rather than being hellbent on tearing them down. Try not to be hateful for a change. Yeah you may lose out on 164 hours of trolling on various mmo sites, but it may get you further in the RL afterlife if you try not to be hateful.
Wow. Well, that sheds a whole new light on things, thanks for sharing. That explains a lot too.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
It seems a ton of games share graphics, but create a different result. From Lineage II to FFXIV to TERA to Archage, they all seem to look almost identical to me, and yet fairly different games.
Graphics are only one part of it, and to be honest if an indie can skip all of that dev time to put in some substance, I will still give them a shot. Its F2P!!!
F2P only if you don't want land.
Here's why I'm not going to donate to the kickstarter, they haven't proven to me that they're competent to do the job. If all they have to show for are graphics and animations that they've purchased, I can't trust them to be capable of doing... well anything.
I'm done paying for promises. I wish them and all of you that do support the kickstarter the best of luck though.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
My opinion on shared assets:
Who gives a shit? I don't play any other games that use these same assets, at least not enough of them that I would take notice and be bothered by it. I don't care if they buy libraries, in fact, this game will be done LONG before a game that had to make assets from scratch, so I prefer it.
Middleware is key for indy developers these days. If all these guys had to create and program everything from scratch these sandbox projects would never happen. It's up to these developers to then program interesting gameplay features. In my opinion, that's what missing from most games in the first place. While I do want decent graphics in my MMO game, it certainly is not top on my list. At least they are buying some good quality stuff, and they are also making their own too.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Well, I do for one. I'm certainly not going to give them money when I haven't seen anything they've done outside of piecing together what they've bought. Coding is serious stuff, especially when it comes to combat, animations etc. If all they currently have for combat video is broken mechanics (admitted by them, magic not working etc.) then I can't trust them to be able to code important stuff.
I don't mind using nice graphic packages IF they could prove to me that they're competent in coding the main game mechanics but they have nothing to show.
Too risky for me, been there done that.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
"The last combat demo I received was a nice start but simply not something I'd release to the public yet. I know many of you are eager and as to be expected, chiseling my words into stone, but the fact is, we have 6 days to get the bugs out of this small demo and I'm not sure it will be ready in time.
My devs told me we would have the demo ready before KS ends so I posted as much which I've learned not to rely too much on time frames by my devs. There are too many unknowns that pop up.
To give you an example, James had the demo working perfectly on his end. Spells would cast and hit their target. Targeting worked well etc. Then he packaged it up and sent it to me. I tried and my spells shot in the opposite direction and I could only target dead things. I simply can't release that for the public to judge."
link
That's exactly why I can't donate to their Kickstarter. I simply can't trust them to code this game. They may have some nice stuff they paid for but other than that, can't risk my cash.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Then don't. We don't need to hear your justification over and over again. If $25 (or whatever) is such a huge decision in your life, then perhaps it's best you don't risk it. I'm not saying that to be insulting either. If my support was that big of a decision to weigh, I just wouldn't do it. For me, it's not, and I back games and projects quite often.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Well, we don't need to hear yours either but it's a forum and we're all free to voice our opinions here, regardless of if we agree with someone else or not.
No need to take offense or get upset about it, it's just another game.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I think you are reading tone into my post that doesn't exist. I'm not the least bit upset.
Sometimes backing a project is not what you may or may not be getting out of the deal. Especially with micro-investments via crowdfunding. I'm going into this project knowing full well that little $50 of mine may result in absolutely nothing, and I'm ok with that. I'm supporting something I believe in, which is indy game developers who are willing to take chances on developing unique MMOs.
Honestly though, if it's a big deal, just don't do it. There will still be land and everything else for players who join the game after launch. Kickstarter is a show of support, and it's not for everyone.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I'm well aware of how Kickstarters work and I've also supported projects in the past, only to get burned. I just prefer not risking getting jobbed again.
Good luck on your donation though, I hope it works out for you.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
If you are going into kickstarter concerned about being "burned" then perhaps crowdfunding isn't for you. Investors get "burned" on large multi-million dollar projects all the time, including ventures where they did their proper due diligence. There is often a gambling aspect to investing, which is why risk-takers are rewarded in a capitalist society.
Best you think of kickstarter as a donation like I do, and if you get something out of it later, then good.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I agree and instead of me spending $50 at the bar I am more than happy to back a sandbox game compared to all this themepark crap....
And I think that kind of rationale is going to really hurt the gaming industry, let alone the gamers. Many, many people are going to get taken advantage of as we see more and more and more of these Kickstarter projects.
But perhaps this is a good thing, as more and more gamers get burned we'll start to see things come back down to reality and demand delivery upon payment.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Since there is no proof of wide-spread MMO game developer scamming on Kickstarter, I'll go ahead and trust these guys. They are putting their real names and reputations on the line, and they aren't hiding a thing. There are shady projects out there, and they aren't hard to avoid. I wouldn't give the developer of Xsyon a penny on his new kickstarter, for example, but that's just my opinion.
I've backed several projects on Kickstarted and a couple of them have failed, but they clearly tried to get their business going. Also, Kickstarter isn't in the scam business and I doubt they are planning to let their site become known for it. Why don't you go read up on some of the awesome success stories to come out of that site, both big and small.
So really, this whole thread was created because you were already a naysayer, and you wanted to come here and give people the impression that this game must be a scam. I'm starting to understand where you are coming from now.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Um no, actually I was all ready to donate @ the $300 level with a friend until I started researching their background through links someone else provided.
But just go on presuming you know me and my intentions, that's fine. Might as well go ahead and call me a hater and a troll too, that's par for the course and how it works around here.
Shall I go ahead and call you a fanboi now or later?
Get a grip my friend. There's no reason why these discussions always have to go down the toilet, do they? I prefer adult conversation if we can do that.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I am sorry if you feel I am trying to fire up an argument here. I meant no personal attack though my comments did track that direction.
What got me going was people complaining about stock assets being used in a small shop indy title, and then the conversation became about kickstarter which I think, on the whole, is a great addition to the good of the world and capitalism. While there are no doubt people trying to pull scams, they are easy to spot and avoid.
I can understand being wary about backing this title for $300. I wouldn't do that without ongoing updates either. Frankly I was surprised to see so many people back the this title for large amounts with so little information, but then I only did $50 which is a show of good faith and support for an interesting idea.
Peace to you.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Wow,
so I see our friend Brash has made an appearance here as well. It's hard for me to knock Brash because I know her cynicism stems from a failed effort at her own projects in the past so she finds it impossible to understand how someone else could achieve what she hasn't. I'm sure in time Brash will become as big a supporter of Greed Monger as she is currently a naysayer.
It's been pointed out everywhere that we have purchased assets from other modelers and developers and thankfully, many of you seem to understand how commonplace the practice really is. If there is a 3D model, animations or scripts that you can purchase somewhere instead of paying $30-$60 an hour to create from scratch, WHY NOT?!
I have thousands of dollars in assets I've purchased to get our programmers started on various elements of the game. I also have lots of custom assets being developed right now by multiple artists. It's just how things are done, especially for an indie team like ourselves.
As for the combat demo, yes, it's been taking a while because Greed Mongers development focus hasn't been strictly on a demo for combat to appease a few people. Our focus has been on the most important aspecs of project such as world size, development, server side programming, planning and world building. I have a team of full time programmers currently working on their own projects within the game world and only one working on the combat demo on the side. I assumed we would be able to have one ready before the campaign ended but honestly, it's just not been our primary focus.
I completely understand if you prefer to wait to pledge or support the game before seeing the combat. The fact is, our combat system is pretty in depth and there is no way to develop the system in a months time. I could show you a video of my toon blasting something some with spells until it dies, but that's nowhere near representative of what the final system will be like and in the MMO world, as soon as you show anything, thats it! It's cast in stone and accepted or rejected as is. It's not worth the hassle.
We are focused on doing everything we can to ensure we host an Alpha Test phase for our Kickstarter backers. That's our goal and thats what we are doing, maybe you should wait until then to find out if the game is worth your interest. In the meantime, you are more than welcome to visit our forums and engage the community. You will find lots of information there that may hold you over a while.
Thank you all!
www.greedmonger.com
Did you like Ultima Online? Then you'll LOVE Greed Monger!
You bring up a good point here about games being condemned based on releasing too much early information. We've seen that time and time again. Most MMO developers have learned not to show much of anything until they approach beta, and even then there is an NDA in place for closed testers to avoid just the disaster you are referring to. Screenshots have to be labled with disclaimers that say "Alpha or Beta" on them and whatnot, and still people will complain about the slightest thing they don't like and assume it's written in stone.
If I were you, I wouldn't be in any hurry to release unfinished gameplay videos just to satisfy a few people either. You have a lot of support now, and if some people can't understand that the game is in very early development, then they shouldn't be concerned with pledging dollars this early.
Thanks for your posts today.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
All the people who complain endlessly about 'no sandboxes' should be running to support this.
Me, I have some qualms about the whole thing. Some pretty basic issues too. I mean, if you can't even come up with a good name for your project, it casts some suspicion on other, upcoming choices. Greed Monger is not a great moniker to get stuck with. It immediately turned me off, and I imagine others had similar responses. I know there has been talk of changing the name: That's something that should have been seriously considered long before any public release of info. It's also bad form to change names in the middle of the stream, though sometimes you have to, if your original choice was already taken, or, just not very good. I consider it a stumble right out of the gate.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.